Against organised side, we don't know how to build-up and keep possession properly as a team, especially against high pressings. Villa also did for one half similar to what Southampton did for two halves. Our players are just not in sync. And most predominantly against low block. Not for the first time.
Other than that Ole is very good in everything else of what we need from our manager right now.
Can he please get a good attacking coach for next season who can provide good coaching in this ongoing problem?
Most of the debates in this thread are based on the short term. And Ole is held responsible in proportion to this season.
I, on the other hand, always consider the longer term and I’m totally contempt with the progress that has been made so far. We just can not judge Ole until we have a complete squad. Which we didn’t for most parts of this season. And still missing a few key pieces. He has to be given another season.
I’d probably be one of a handful, but I’d still side with Ole even if we somehow don’t qualify for CL next season. Which I highly doubt though.
But there is enough evidence to suggest that we’re headed in the right direction now and changing it up again so soon would be disastrous. With a couple more signings, we’ll definitely make top 4 if not challenge for the title itself.
Most of the debates in this thread are based on the short term. And Ole is held responsible in proportion to this season.
I, on the other hand, always consider the longer term and I’m totally contempt with the progress that has been made so far. We just can not judge Ole until we have a complete squad. Which we didn’t for most parts of this season. And still missing a few key pieces. He has to be given another season.
I’d probably be one of a handful, but I’d still side with Ole even if we somehow don’t qualify for CL next season. Which I highly doubt though.
But there is enough evidence to suggest that we’re headed in the right direction now and changing it up again so soon would be disastrous. With a couple more signings, we’ll definitely make top 4 if not challenge for the title itself.
Fair enough and props for changing your statement after reflecting. However, while I agree with the fact that we did not dominate, I would think both Martial and Rashford both failed to finish chances that they, if being honest, would tell you they should have scored with. Martial 2x actually.
Despite tonight’s result, I am still positive in the direction the team is going and I think a manager change at this point could set them back while the team adjusts and has the potential to go in the opposite direction.
I don't disagree with you, and I'm not calling for Ole to be sacked. He's only had a few matches with our strongest 11 after all, and he could well improve us substantially given enough time. I'm sure he learns as he goes. But I'm not convinced he can take us back to the top, especially given the competition we're up against. And if he can't how long do we stick with him? My biggest worry is that he ends up a decent manager who keeps us in and around the top 4 but without winning any of the biggest trophies.
What about the other 18 matches we did not win this season (which are more than those we won)? Were they also 'one' bad games? When does 'one' bad game becomes 'one bad game too much'?
Unbeaten in all comps is harder to achieve, hence why top unbeaten run in all comps is 28 (City) since Sir Alex retired while unbeaten in the league is Liverpool with 44. Oles working on our league form, he's got the 2nd and 3rd best run since Sir Alex retired but yeah, it's a little far away from Jose's 13 wins and 12 draw run. Progress ongoing.
Against organised side, we don't know how to build-up and keep possession properly as a team, especially against high pressings. Villa also did for one half similar to what Southampton did for two halves. Our players are just not in sync. And most predominantly against low block. Not for the first time.
Other than that Ole is very good in everything else of what we need from our manager right now.
Can he please get a good attacking coach for next season who can provide good coaching in this ongoing problem?
Well that does not correlate to coaching. It’s more to do with the players as you yourself mentioned (the bolded part). They’re the ones having a tough time so they should be the one questioned, replaced or improved. It’s not like we went into today’s game trying to stamp our own style while completely ignoring Southamptons game plan. We went prepared enough to adapt our game knowing it won’t be like the last few for instance.
In fact, if we just take into consideration today’s game, If it wasn’t for Pogba’s errors, we were handling the pressure just fine. Southampton played well and it was obviously going to be a competitive game as compared to the last few but we didn’t make a complete mess out of it.
There’s also the question of playing so many games in such little time, and we can’t expect our team to be perfect every game.
If anything, I was more worried about Ole’s coaching prowess when he was signed. Not as much anymore. It will just take time for our coach and (new) team to build a title challenging chemistry and nobody can rush the process. Be it Ole or another replacement.
His squad building seems right compared to Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. I didn't think he was good enough when he was appointed full time after a good caretaker run. But I dont think sacking him now would be a fair decision.
He seems to be building a decent squad. He might not get top 4 this season but I'm convinced he will next season. It's a low bar but we have missed out so many times these past years so it might now be our level just to aim for top 4.
If we want to be ruthless about it then I would sack him for Poch.
Honest question and I am not trying to pick a fight, but what does Poch bring to the table that Ole doesn’t? I’ll start with experience, he def has that over Ole. What else cuz I know it ain’t trophies. I mean, at least Moyes won something! (lol, now that is picking a fight!).
Unbeaten in all comps is harder to achieve, hence why top unbeaten run in all comps is 28 (City) since Sir Alex retired while unbeaten in the league is Liverpool with 44. Oles working on our league form, he's got the 2nd and 3rd best run since Sir Alex retired but yeah, it's a little far away from Jose's 13 wins and 12 draw run. Progress ongoing.
Honest question and I am not trying to pick a fight, but what does Poch bring to the table that Ole doesn’t? I’ll start with experience, he def has that over Ole. What else cuz I know it ain’t trophies. I mean, at least Moyes won something! (lol, now that is picking a fight!).
What about the other 18 matches we did not win this season (which are more than those we won)? Were they also 'one' bad games? When does 'one' bad game becomes 'one bad game too much'?
We had a bad start. We all know that, there are reasons for it, you clearly choose to ignore those in favour of slating Ole. That's fine, but our current form with the team settling down and our new signings bedding in is glorious. I'm loving it, have done for several months and will continue to enjoy watching us play with Ole at the wheel.
Games like this show what Ole is still missing to be an elite manager. I really like the man and I would love to see us becoming a dominant force under him for the next 10+ years but whenever a game goes not easy and not like planned some deficits become obvious. No tactical reaction, just hoping that we somehow get over the line with the points.
Hasenhüttel got it right and deserved a point despite his team being inferior to ours.
He’s a good manager. That system would do some damage at a club with a proper budget. Another shrewd acquisition from Southampton. His players were inferior but they never stopped or let us run away with it either. They stopped Bruno Mason and Pogba from doing anything. They also kept going till the final second.
I think anyone saying Ole out after tonight is daft. We are WWWWWD its title challenge form and looking back we were unlucky tonight. Injuries, not taking our chances, not having a good enough squad yet. It’s all fixable. We are doing amazingly well to even be in this position. There was always going to be a draw or a loss at some stage it just depends now on how we respond.
Exactly! It’s not like Ole had a full squad and still fecked it up royally!
The guy has been trying to survive with a below par squad since his arrival and still done really well in my opinion.
He didn’t even need much time to introduce the new signings into the starting 11 to make them start performing.
Heck, even if a championship player like James was able to come in and provide performances better than Sanchez ffs.
Our project is looking very promising. Even SAF needed time to instill his footprint on the team. In fact his league positions in the first & third year of his reign was 11th. The point is his project deserved patience and support which he duly got. If Ole came 11th he’d be long gone. Wouldn’t have even survived one season.
People in today’s times have become so impatient. Some say we should sign Allegri, who knows how much time he’ll need to implement his own footprint while also deviating away from our club ideology. Top managers don’t matter as much as they did before if the projects don’t align their own belief system nowadays.
Zidane wouldn’t have done this well if he went anywhere else. Same with Lampard and now Ole. There is a reason top clubs now trial with their own history because it’s easier to implement it while also being beneficial for the clubs longevity.
I think you fail to see the progress because statistics and numbers sum up your judgement. However, those can only go so far. When we came 2nd under Mourinho, people said we could’ve won the league with that points total in some seasons however the football was horrible to watch. Specially as a United fan.
Maybe, I am a stats guy. On the other hand, the table does not really lie, right? That is what we used to say when we were winning trophies, and our rivals were claiming each year that our team is the shittest team in forever. And the table is saying that we are in the fifth place, with less victories than matches not won.
Overall, our style of football is finally fun to watch now. It isn’t horrid anymore like under previous managers. For me that goes beyond any numbers or statistics. And that is why people have high hopes for next season because it’s obvious to see that we finally have a decent starting 11 that we didn’t have for most parts of this season. Hell even Greenwood, while present, wasn’t starting games like he is now.
Depends on what game you're watching. It was pretty terrible today, and as bad as under any manager at their worst in the last 30 mins. It was pretty bad against Norwich. It has been more bad than good under most of Ole's time here. Sure, it was great at times, but you can say the same for LVG (remember the matches against Spurs, Liverpool and City?).
My point is, we were already prepared for a lacklustre season. Most of us called it right at the beginning of the season when we at least failed to replace Lukaku and waited on Bruno. The blame for that doesn’t go on Ole. He was able to showcase his coaching only when he was given the tools who can actually implement it. Lingard & Pereira were not the tools. Let’s also not forget De Gea’s errors that literally cost us a few points on its own.
Ah the infamous United manager who needs to shine only when all players are his. I mean, he played today 6 players he signed or promoted, but apparently that is not enough. Meanwhile, in other teams, it seems that the managers (at least those who don't suck) start immediately playing well. Who knows, blood magic or something.
No matter who else you’d rather have as a manager, would’ve had a ‘mediocre season’ as well, if he was without our best players for large parts of this season. Which also directly correlates to my argument about the statistics and numbers you’ve provided.
All the statistics that you’re targeting were simply not possible this season. But they will be next season. With the same man in charge and the same team that’s playing right now. Albeit with a couple more signings obviously.
The thing which is known as 'blind faith'. I mean, I've heard this argument from Moyes fanboys and Van Gaal's too (though at the end of Mourinho's time, I think that everyone was done with him, and yes, statistically wise, that was the only season past Fergie, when a manager of ours was getting fewer points on average than Ole this season). Anyway, just cause it happened with the other managers, it does not mean that it is gonna happen with Ole too, and he might turn to be good. But so far, there is feck all to suggest that this is anything except a purple patch (which we also had last season before we crushed and burned).
For feck sake we're on an 18 game unbeaten run, playing better than we have in years, 1 point of the top 4 with 3 games to go. Despite tonight we've still a real chance of having a great end to the season.
We had a bad start. We all know that, there are reasons for it, you clearly choose to ignore those in favour of slating Ole. That's fine, but our current form with the team settling down and our new signings bedding in is glorious. I'm loving it, have done for several months and will continue to enjoy watching us play with Ole at the wheel.
Our current form is quite good, very good in fact. At the same time, this thing happened with Mourinho and Van Gaal too. Sorry, for not being excited for yet another potential false dawn after having them every year. There is nothing to suggest that this is anything else.
My concerns are as follows:
1 player for player and considering huge investment we looked inferior and out thought by Southampton tonight. Our goals were more through individual talent than tactics and they not only nullified our best players but also dominated the game and played better football overall
2 our real-time game adaptability was once again shown up and I felt a huge step backwards. This is surely down to tactics and we were quite simple embarrassingly shown up.
3 we recently had a resurgence in possession based football but when a team as average as Southampton can turn up and get in our faces did not have a plan B - still worse we looked knackered - but then you will do if you have to chase the ball.
I was shocked and very surprised at how badly the game was managed by both players and manager. We just had to keep the ball against an inferior team and - finally but criminally- why did we only have 10 men on the field at the end? Can someone please explain?
Our current form is quite good, very good in fact. At the same time, this thing happened with Mourinho and Van Gaal too. Sorry, for not being excited for yet another potential false dawn after having them every year. There is nothing to suggest that this is anything else.
Sorry for not being excited that we managed to not get beaten by LASK or whatever that team is called.
My concerns are as follows:
1 player for player and considering huge investment we looked inferior and out thought by Southampton tonight. Our goals were more through individual talent than tactics and they not only nullified our best players but also dominated the game and played better football overall
2 our real-time game adaptability was once again shown up and I felt a huge step backwards. This is surely down to tactics and we were quite simple embarrassingly shown up.
3 we recently had a resurgence in possession based football but when a team as average as Southampton can turn up and get in our faces did not have a plan B - still worse we looked knackered - but then you will do if you have to chase the ball.
I was shocked and very surprised at how badly the game was managed by both players and manager. We just had to keep the ball against an inferior team and - finally but criminally- why did we only have 10 men on the field at the end? Can someone please explain?
The manager is allowed to make 5 subs, but only in 3 slots (in order to prevent using subs strategically to waste time). We had already used the 3 slots (Fred, McTominay/James and Williams).
I think @Skills mentioned this in this thread or in another.
The main reason teams change managers is because there's someone better available.
We have 2 routes to get into the Champions League. Every manager post SAF has been tasked with the minimum objective to qualify for the Champions League.
Our form is great at the moment, but there's simply no excuses for being unable to secure top 4 if we failed to do so.
Most of the debates in this thread are based on the short term. And Ole is held responsible in proportion to this season.
I, on the other hand, always consider the longer term and I’m totally contempt with the progress that has been made so far. We just can not judge Ole until we have a complete squad. Which we didn’t for most parts of this season. And still missing a few key pieces. He has to be given another season.
I’d probably be one of a handful, but I’d still side with Ole even if we somehow don’t qualify for CL next season. Which I highly doubt though.
But there is enough evidence to suggest that we’re headed in the right direction now and changing it up again so soon would be disastrous. With a couple more signings, we’ll definitely make top 4 if not challenge for the title itself.
Thank you both, I needed to hear others saying things like that. Honestly, the positive attitude that exudes from this team since Ole took over is one of the most important signs of progress to me. Would love to see more here, this place gets so toxic I have to avoid it for sometimes days. While I doubt they are feeling great about themselves right now, I am more optimistic about this group shaking it off and focusing on Palace with the same confidence they have shown since the restart than I have been in years.
Maybe, I am a stats guy. On the other hand, the table does not really lie, right? That is what we used to say when we were winning trophies, and our rivals were claiming each year that our team is the shittest team in forever. And the table is saying that we are in the fifth place, with less victories than matches not won.
Depends on what game you're watching. It was pretty terrible today, and as bad as under any manager at their worst in the last 30 mins. It was pretty bad against Norwich. It has been more bad than good under most of Ole's time here. Sure, it was great at times, but you can say the same for LVG (remember the matches against Spurs, Liverpool and City?).
Ah the infamous United manager who needs to shine only when all players are his. I mean, he played today 6 players he signed or promoted, but apparently that is not enough. Meanwhile, in other teams, it seems that the managers (at least those who don't suck) start immediately playing well. Who knows, blood magic or something.
The thing which is known as 'blind faith'. I mean, I've heard this argument from Moyes fanboys and Van Gaal's too (though at the end of Mourinho's time, I think that everyone was done with him, and yes, statistically wise, that was the only season past Fergie, when a manager of ours was getting fewer points on average than Ole this season). Anyway, just cause it happened with the other managers, it does not mean that it is gonna happen with Ole too, and he might turn to be good. But so far, there is feck all to suggest that except a purple patch (which we also had last season before we crushed and burned).
The table surely doesn’t lie but it doesn’t matter because this season was part of the rebuilding phase and our only hope was to get top 4. If we somehow get that regardless of all the stats you pointed out about lowest points total etc, then your stats would again be pointless because we reached our goal.
Your stats only start to matter when the man in charge has been given enough time and tools to prove you wrong and couldn’t. For instance, next season. It’s too early to factually judge him yet.
About today’s game, it was not terrible from anywhere. Like honestly. First goal was straight up Pogba’s fault. We were coping fine against a well organized team other than that.
And my point isn’t that Ole needs his players to shine. He actually survived quite well when he didn’t have all these players and at least left us in some position to get us to where we are now. 18 games unbeaten, in contention for top 4 despite drawing today.
I would just like to conclude by wondering what you think should be our way forward so I can understand how Ole still hasn’t been satisfactory despite making so much progress that previous managers couldn’t. Like who do you think should replace him?
Our current form is quite good, very good in fact. At the same time, this thing happened with Mourinho and Van Gaal too. Sorry, for not being excited for yet another potential false dawn after having them every year. There is nothing to suggest that this is anything else.
Sorry for not being excited that we managed to not get beaten by LASK or whatever that team is called.
To be fair I think there have been improvements since the break that aren't just due to good form, particularly some evidence of practiced attacking patterns and better movement of the ball which allows us to maintain possession and break down packed defences. But our passing and pressing systems still need a lot of work. Ole next has to show that he is able to develop them further.
We've had good results against tough opposition. We had similar results under Van Gaal during his good run(including that great performance at Anfield). It's fair to worry if this is another false dawn since we've seen so many post SAF.
I don't think it is(and I've already noted that I changed my vote to keep Ole), but today's performance AND result was a blow. If we dominated Saints and didn't come away with the win, I'd feel better about it.
Thank you both, I needed to hear others saying things like that. Honestly, the positive attitude that exudes from this team since Ole took over is one of the most important signs of progress to me. Would love to see more here, this place gets so toxic I have to avoid it for sometimes days. While I doubt they are feeling great about themselves right now, I am more optimistic about this group shaking it off and focusing on Palace with the same confidence they have shown since the restart than I have been in years.
I am convinced they will shake it off. Even today’s game was not a mess from any collective angle. First goal was Pogba’s fault and second was us being down to 10 men with players not knowing their duties specifically which led to confusion. We could’ve easily scored a couple more as well. Not like we didn’t create enough chances while dealing with a well organized team.
I am satisfied we were able to put ourselves in a position where we can potentially afford today’s draw and still make top 4. Didn’t look like this in December.
The table surely doesn’t lie but it doesn’t matter because this season was part of the rebuilding phase and our only hope was to get top 4. If we somehow get that regardless of all the stats you pointed out about lowest points total etc, then your stats would again be pointless because we reached our goal.
Your stats only start to matter when the man in charge has been given enough time and tools to prove you wrong and couldn’t. For instance, next season. It’s too early to factually judge him yet.
About today’s game, it was not terrible from anywhere. Like honestly. First goal was straight up Pogba’s fault. We were coping fine against a well organized team other than that.
And my point isn’t that Ole needs his players to shine. He actually survived quite well when he didn’t have all these players and at least left us in some position to get us to where we are now. 18 games unbeaten, in contention for top 4 despite drawing today.
I would just like to conclude by wondering what you think should be our way forward so I can understand how Ole still hasn’t been satisfactory despite making so much progress that previous managers couldn’t. Like who do you think should replace him?
I have no idea to be fair. Our lack of DoF and a football structure in addition to the manager means that we are fecked either way. Stick with what looks a mediocre manager, or burn everything down and start the new cycle, without any guarantee that it is gonna get better. Which has been going since SAF left.
I think that we missed a trick by not hiring Zidane when we could have, and not hiring a DoF (or a few football men who are responsible for the structure at the club).
Now, dunno. Allegri is the only great free manager right there, but hardly an inspiring choice. Probably the best option is to stick with Ole but start preparing for the end of next season. Which means scouting managers, and getting football men at the club, like any modern club does.
Changing the manager should be a straightforward thing, but at United is a colossal task cause we seriously lack on the management of the football side of the club. At the same time, judging the manager should be an objective task, not a worshipping cult when the manager can do no wrong.
Well that does not correlate to coaching. It’s more to do with the players as you yourself mentioned (the bolded part). They’re the ones having a tough time so they should be the one questioned, replaced or improved. It’s not like we went into today’s game trying to stamp our own style while completely ignoring Southamptons game plan. We went prepared enough to adapt our game knowing it won’t be like the last few for instance.
In fact, if we just take into consideration today’s game, If it wasn’t for Pogba’s errors, we were handling the pressure just fine. Southampton played well and it was obviously going to be a competitive game as compared to the last few but we didn’t make a complete mess out of it.
There’s also the question of playing so many games in such little time, and we can’t expect our team to be perfect every game.
If anything, I was more worried about Ole’s coaching prowess when he was signed. Not as much anymore. It will just take time for our coach and (new) team to build a title challenging chemistry and nobody can rush the process. Be it Ole or another replacement.
It's not?
Ok from what I understand, you rate Ole's coaching prowess. Therefore the problems lies with the players..?
I don't see our players being comfortable with the pressings today. Instead they are nervous and start to play more and more long-balls, and when they try to play the ball on feet, mistakes happened. No doubt some players are comfortable eg. Shaw, Matic, Lindelof mainly because they know what to do and comfortable against high-press, but then there are others who are not.
^ Still, too much reliance on individuals. We kept up just enough with teams pressings because our individual talents are far better than theirs and, no doubt theirs organisation, team discipline and team-pressings are much better than ours today.
We couldn't control the game today which is just ridiculous for a top team.
I do agree we cannot expect perfection from every game, that's not realistic. And I don't buy this fatigue excuse being the cause of how why we fail to take control or even our players couldn't connect passes to each other (being high pressured) as if they never play with each other. Other than the occasional times where the play connects, or few players are in sync with each other today.
That said, our players did had a go back and we could've won. Alas. Inability to keep calm and control the game and keep possession though is not the first time has happened. It's fine to be optimistic, but I rather be realistic. There are clear improvements with Ole of course, but still not enough.
Ole's not like Pep I suppose who engineer the specifics way how the players play in every single detail -- how to build-up, where, who and how to pass, positioning must be right, etc. Of course, there is also some individual reliance on the players but his coaching is effective and generally team-performance are well-balanced between system and individuals, and the result is we see good repetitive team-play movements and works on the pitch, this helps improve players performances because they know what their teammates will do and help improve the chemistry even more quickly as a team, not just a bunch of few players.
In contrast, Ole put more trusts on the player's abilities and decision-makings, and therefore lets players to develop that chemistry on their own the more they play together. Too much random chance though, which is just not effective against organised side. The chemistry developed won't be consistent and it's more random and uncertain. Few players we have seen are improving their understandings but not so much with the others. This happened when the coach doesn't actively engineer or control it, as Ole does. Not saying he doesn't give his input, he did, clearly he did on the pitch, during trainings and in interviews we can know that. Unfortunately it's not good enough.
It's not?
Ok from what I understand, you rate Ole's coaching prowess. Therefore the problems lies with the players..?
I don't see our players being comfortable with the pressings today. Instead they are nervous and start to play more and more long-balls, and when they try to play the ball on feet, mistakes happened. No doubt some players are comfortable eg. Shaw, Matic, Lindelof mainly because they know what to do and comfortable against high-press, but then there are others who are not.
^ Still, too much reliance on individuals. We kept up just enough with teams pressings because our individual talents are far better than theirs and, no doubt theirs organisation, team discipline and team-pressings are much better than ours today.
We couldn't control the game today which is just ridiculous for a top team.
I do agree we cannot expect perfection from every game, that's not realistic. And I don't buy this fatigue excuse being the cause of how why we fail to take control or even our players couldn't connect passes to each other (being high pressured) as if they never play with each other. Other than the occasional times where the play connects, or few players are in sync with each other today.
That said, our players did had a go back and we could've won. Alas. Inability to keep calm and control the game and keep possession though is not the first time has happened. It's fine to be optimistic, but I rather be realistic. There are clear improvements with Ole of course, but still not enough.
Ole's not like Pep I suppose who engineer the specifics way how the players play in every single detail -- how to build-up, where, who and how to pass, positioning must be right, etc. Of course, there is also some individual reliance on the players but his coaching is effective and generally team-performance are well-balanced between system and individuals, and the result is we see good repetitive team-play movements and works on the pitch, this helps improve players performances because they know what their teammates will do and help improve the chemistry even more quickly as a team, not just a bunch of few players.
In contrast, Ole put more trusts on the player's abilities and decision-makings, and therefore lets players to develop that chemistry on their own the more they play together. Too much random chance though, which is just not effective against organised side. The chemistry developed won't be consistent and it's more random and uncertain. Few players we have seen are improving their understandings but not so much with the others. This happened when the coach doesn't actively engineer or control it, as Ole does. Not saying he doesn't give his input, he did, clearly he did on the pitch, during trainings and in interviews we can know that. Unfortunately it's not good enough.
I find from our entire team that only Martial with Rashford, and to a lesser degree Rashford with Shaw are in the same wavelength. Pogba, Bruno and Mason are more individual brilliance than anything. The defense is relatively good at defending, but not very great at other parts of the game, and the player don't look very comfortable with each other. Wan Bissaka in particular is very uncomfortable with every other player.
I have no idea to be fair. Our lack of DoF and a football structure in addition to the manager means that we are fecked either way. Stick with what looks a mediocre manager, or burn everything down and start the new cycle, without any guarantee that it is gonna get better. Which has been going since SAF left.
I think that we missed a trick by not hiring Zidane when we could have, and not hiring a DoF (or a few football men who are responsible for the structure at the club).
Now, dunno. Allegri is the only great free manager right there, but hardly an inspiring choice. Probably the best option is to stick with Ole but start preparing for the end of next season. Which means scouting managers, and getting football men at the club, like any modern club does.
Changing the manager should be a straightforward thing, but at United is a colossal task cause we seriously lack on the management of the football side of the club. At the same time, judging the manager should be an objective task, not a worshipping cult when the manager can do no wrong.
I disagree with the Zidane thought, he is ideal for Madrid in the same way Ole is for United. They know the culture and what is expected of the players. While it’s not much different on the field, how the teams go about it is very different. United was moving away from the identity that SAF had built and we were almost lost. At least Ole stabilized that.
For the first time tonight I will agree with you though. I think the DOF is an important role. I would lIke to see Ole get the next summer and winter transfer seasons to do what he wants though, and then bring someone in with United ties that will work with him closely as long as he lasts. Then the DOF can take the lead when the next manager comes in.
I disagree with the Zidane thought, he is ideal for Madrid in the same way Ole is for United. They know the culture and what is expected of the players. While it’s not much different on the field, how the teams go about it is very different. United was moving away from the identity that SAF had built and we were almost lost. At least Ole stabilized that.
For the first time tonight I will agree with you though. I think the DOF is an important role. I would lIke to see Ole get the next summer and winter transfer seasons to do what he wants though, and then bring someone in with United ties that will work with him closely as long as he lasts. Then the DOF can take the lead when the next manager comes in.
I disagree with the Zidane thought, he is ideal for Madrid in the same way Ole is for United. They know the culture and what is expected of the players. While it’s not much different on the field, how the teams go about it is very different. United was moving away from the identity that SAF had built and we were almost lost. At least Ole stabilized that.
For the first time tonight I will agree with you though. I think the DOF is an important role. I would lIke to see Ole get the next summer and winter transfer seasons to do what he wants though, and then bring someone in with United ties that will work with him closely as long as he lasts. Then the DOF can take the lead when the next manager comes in.
Typically great managers are great managers anywhere. See Pep, Mourinho at his peak, Ancelotti etc. Zidane is an all-time great, he would be a great manager anywhere. I don't believe at all the hokus-pokus about the identity of the club. Start winning titles with tika-taka football, and that would become our identity. It is not a given thing, it is just a successful implementation of the manager/structure.
There might be mediocre managers who look good on some clubs, and then show to be mediocre on others (Moyes for example).
DoF is extremely important IMO. Ole or not (and at this stage probably better Ole than no Ole for next season), United needs to fecking fix their shit. It is totally inexcusable way how we are managed.
That’s not true and, even if it was, it is progress. Ole has one of the youngest clubs in the league, all I am asking for is one more year and then evaluate him at that point.
I find from our entire team that only Martial with Rashford, and to a lesser degree Rashford with Shaw are in the same wavelength. Pogba, Bruno and Mason are more individual brilliance than anything. The defense is relatively good at defending, but not very great at other parts of the game, and the player don't look very comfortable with each other. Wan Bissaka in particular is very uncomfortable with every other player.
I'm genuinely surprised by this. I can understand the frustration with tonight's game, conceding your lead in the 96th minute always feels like a loss and provokes strong reactions! But I don't get this idea that your good play is just down to moments of individual brilliance.
Watching as an oppo fan I just don't see that.
I'm glad you recognise the link up between Shaw and Rashford as that is growing and growing and looks fantastic. But Pogba and Bruno are also building a great relationship, they compliment each others positions on the pitch and generally seem to understand what the other is doing. Remember the worries that they would play in each other's space, that just doesn't happen and that is because they're both well drilled, I think anyway.
That third goal against us (Brighton) was one of the best I have seen this season with Matic and Greenwood knowing exactly where everyone was around them. Greenwood's goals against Bournemouth might feel like individual brilliance but the way the rest of your forward line are pulling defences out of shape regularly give him the space to do that.
I don't get the comment on AWB, he and Greenwood didn't link up particularly well today, but everyone has off days, but in general his work going forward is getting better and better and he's only been playing with Greenwood for a short time so they're learning how eaach other play still.
Some of your football since the restart has been scintillating and the best I have seen from Utd for years. No one wins every match all the time, but honestly (and it's always different watching as a non fan) Southampton (apart from the first 20 mins) did not look threatening at all until Williams went off, yes they had quite a bit of possession but it never felt like they were really threatening and you never looked out of control. I fully expected you to win 2-1 or even 3-1 with a fast break.
Typically great managers are great managers anywhere. See Pep, Mourinho at his peak, Ancelotti etc. Zidane is an all-time great, he would be a great manager anywhere. I don't believe at all the hokus-pokus about the identity of the club. Start winning titles with tika-taka football, and that would become our identity. It is not a given thing, it is just a successful implementation of the manager/structure.
There might be mediocre managers who look good on some clubs, and then show to be mediocre on others (Moyes for example).
DoF is extremely important IMO. Ole or not (and at this stage probably better Ole than no Ole for next season), United needs to fecking fix their shit. It is totally inexcusable way how we are managed.
I guess I have to give it to you there, cuz the teams Pep and Zidane came to were maybe even worse than what Ole inherited. /s
I get it, you fecking hate the guy and feel like a year is enough for someone to prove themselves. But, imo, put any of those managers in Ole‘s position at the time and the first thing they are going to say is open the checkbook and give me a couple years. Oh, and one of your guys mentioned had his fecking shot and failed. Are you arguing he should get another chance?
You really hate anything remotely positive. 18 unbeaten my man, 18 unbeaten.