Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[montpelier]

So Ole would be blameless if we failed to get top 4 considering it's still literally in our hands?

Well that depends what he does and how the games go doesn't it?

And he's done enough for me anyway very probably.

The other argument is centred around crying because we aren't in the Top 4 like I said.

Did you see the state of us in December and January? If we go back to that, I'm with you but that isn't the direction of travel just now.

 

[Rash Decision]

Dunno, the board has been ruthless when it comes to UCL. LVG was sacked despite missing on UCL in goal difference (with likely more points than Ole will finish this year) and winning FA Cup.

I believe it might be UCL or get sacked. As it should be. The problem is that with yet again forgetting to hire a director of football, there won't be any contingency plans and then rinse and repeat again. Which is why Ole might get another season despite doing a poor job on his time here.

You may be right, but I think the board would probably take other factors into account as well. LVG not only missed out on UCL, he was giving us a reputation for horrid football and the fans had largely grown sick of him. City had just appointed Pep and Mourinho was available. Ole's football at the moment is far more palatable, we've been getting good press as of late, and I imagine the majority of fans are still on his side. The board may be inclined to stick with him for now, especially since yes, they've still neglected to hire a director of football.

Maybe we can hope that Ole improves his coaching team instead.

 

[sammsky1]

Dunno, the board has been ruthless when it comes to UCL. LVG was sacked despite missing on UCL in goal difference (with likely more points than Ole will finish this year) and winning FA Cup.
I believe it might be UCL or get sacked. As it should be. The problem is that with yet again forgetting to hire a director of football, there won't be any contingency plans and then rinse and repeat again. Which is why Ole might get another season despite doing a poor job on his time here.

I dont think that was the understanding between OGS and Woodward at start of the season.

OGS even made a comment the other day about how decisions and planning were not necessarily dependent on top 4.

I read through the first few pages of 'top 4' thread yesterday, literally nobody on here predicted we would get top 4 this season (consensus was Spurs and Arsenal in 3&4!).

 

[Womp]

Oh dear.. Here we go again with the band brothers.. Hate to brake IT to you guys, but Southampton has been good after the brake, and the World isnt perfect. If you are proper fans, you would say. Not good enough! Several players didnt turn up! But we go again! That is if you not GOT an agenda.. Embarresing this thread.

Don't you find it funny that we never 'turn up' against teams we should be beating convincingly, when Bruno and Pogba aren't on it? See the first half of this season, see against Norwich in the cup, see today. See our performances even in our wins when Bruno and Pogba come off.

Almost as if we are being carried by two world class players, rather than genuinely being a well drilled/coached team.

It's only one game though, I didn't get ahead of myself from these few wins so I'm not gonna look too much into one loss neither.

He absolutely needs to get us into the top 4 though, Chelsea and Leicester have capitulated, it would be inexcusable at this stage to throw it away.

 

[Gator Nate]

Wolves play same 11 over over, fine. We do it, 1 slip up. Knives out.
Fecking hell.
Games like this will always happen, happened under Fergie, happened to every coach under the sun.
Move on.

Exactly. Bad day at the office. No worse than the fixture congestion around Christmas.

18 games unbeaten.

Yup.

Right now, we're 5th, behind Foxes on GD. Chelsea and Leicester WILL drop points again. We just have to win Palace and West Ham, then draw or beat Leicester. We'll still get third.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

It’s worrying that with an inferior team that Southampton to be honest were more than worthy for a point. Tactically I feel they won today & that’s down to the manager. Which worryingly continued second half too, we never ever looked comfortable & their equaliser wasn’t a great shock.

 

[NecssryEvil]

That's the thing I strongly disagree, it just isn't the case. He is a United legend, but he has been piss poor as a manager. Same as the others (actually arguably worse than the last two, probably as bad as Moyes if we finish with only as many or fewer points than we did with Moyes).

No the players are not blameless, same as they never were with the other managers. But the buck stops with the manager, and if he cannot make UCL on this poor league, while every team except Liverpool is in total meltdown, and finishes with the lowest number of points on the history of the league (and in bottom 3 if we do not make UCL), then why we should stick with a manager who is not good enough?! If a noob like Lampard with a worse team can make in UCL, then why we should create excuses for Ole?

Pretty much every manager had his supporters here on their last day, despite that all three of them were clueless. United is like a worshipping cult for the manager.

Ok, well if you don‘t think the team is better than when he took over then I guess we just see things differently. Go ahead and discount the disfuncional team he inherited, go ahead and discount the injuries to key players, go ahead and discount that there is a process (sorry LVG haters/fans, just fit) to building a team. Personally, I see a team that looks more like the United team I grew to love than I have in years. No doubt some work to do but that work is not solely on Ole’s shoulders.

 

[Revan]

I dont think that was the understanding between OGS and Woodward at start of the season.

OGS even made a comment the other day about how decisions and planning were not necessarily dependent on top 4.

I read through the first few pages of 'top 4' thread yesterday, literally nobody on here predicted we would get top 4 this season (consensus was Spurs and Arsenal in 3&4!).

Moyes was also talking for next season, and LVG looked genuinely shocked to get fired. I think that only Mourinho was expecting to get fired.

Ed has been quite ruthless on firing managers, and not telling them that they're gone until they're gone. He also has been clueless at literally everything else.

 

[FatherWolff]

10 men down.
important 3 points on the line.
Last few minutes.
No crowd.

He is sitting down watching the game on the monitor like us. He should be on touchline barking orders and coaching the lads. It doesnt help that his contemporaries (Pep/Klopp) do this.

Are you having a laugh? He just did that

Don't you find it funny that we never 'turn up' against teams we should be beating convincingly, when Bruno and Pogba aren't on it? See the first half of this season, see against Norwich in the cup, see today. See our performances even in our wins when Bruno and Pogba come off.

Almost as if we are being carried by two world class players, rather than genuinely being a well drilled/coached team.

It's only one game though, I didn't get ahead of myself from these few wins so I'm not gonna look too much into one loss neither.

He absolutely needs to get us into the top 4 though, Chelsea and Leicester have capitulated, it would be inexcusable at this stage to throw it away.

No, its not funny at all. And you have to be pretty thick to turn on the manager now. If and and buts. Why didnt Pogba turn HIS head or Get warned. Martial score, or Rashaford keep HIS cool. Red card and so on. So many details, and some players didnt turn up. But the face of IT is they stay together and fight for the last games. Like fans, should support their team for the top four race. Create and suppport good energy. Just SEE what the lads have posted on social media tonight. Everyone is gutted, but we go again. Stay United and CUT out the agenda of «i told you so» 18 unbeaten run, and we can do IT

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Dunno, the board has been ruthless when it comes to UCL. LVG was sacked despite missing on UCL in goal difference (with likely more points than Ole will finish this year) and winning FA Cup.

I believe it might be UCL or get sacked. As it should be. The problem is that with yet again forgetting to hire a director of football, there won't be any contingency plans and then rinse and repeat again. Which is why Ole might get another season despite doing a poor job on his time here.

To be fair, Mourinho was available then and clearly gunning for the job.

Not exactly the same now. There's no one gunning for the job and no 'top' manager likely available.

I'd be surprised if we sacked him if he missed out on CL football.

 

[arnie_ni]

Still leaving my comment until the summer. I wont get carried away with one result

 

[Revan]

To be fair, Mourinho was available then and clearly gunning for the job.

Not exactly the same now. There's no one gunning for the job and no 'top' manager likely available.

I'd be surprised if we sacked him if he missed out on CL football.

Allegri is. He has been one of the top managers in football (for sure a top 5) in the last decade or so. And Italians seem to love winning EPL.

It probably won't happen (and probably it shouldn't considering that Ed has failed yet again on building a structure over the manager, which would make changing the manager a trivial instead of a monumental task) though.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Well that depends what he does and how the games go doesn't it?

And he's done enough for me anyway very probably.

The other argument is centred around crying because we aren't in the Top 4 like I said.

Did you see the state of us in December and January? If we go back to that, I'm with you but that isn't the direction of travel just now.

We've definitely improved, but it's a bit alarming how our improvement always coincides with top 4 being seemingly out of reach. Once top 4 is in reach, we seem to stumble(exact same last season).

If we fail to make top 4, it's a gigantic failure considering the quality of the league.

 

[Mainoldo]

Ok, well if you don‘t think the team is better than when he took over then I guess we just see things differently. Go ahead and discount the disfuncional team he inherited, go ahead and discount the injuries to key players, go ahead and discount that there is a process (sorry LVG haters/fans, just fit) to building a team. Personally, I see a team that looks more like the United team I grew to love than I have in years. No doubt some work to do but that work is not solely on Ole’s shoulders.

Can we just have an opinion on the game instead of this boring nostalgia. It feels like that old United team when we win that trophy again. All the other managers had a segment of improving the team too.

What do you think went wrong today? I don’t blame Ole for today.. but man if we don’t provide him with good players we are screwed. No more Dan James transfers for him please.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Allegri is. He has been one of the top managers in football (for sure a top 5) in the last decade or so. And Italians seem to love winning EPL.

It probably won't happen (and probably it shouldn't considering that Ed has failed yet again on building a structure over the manager, which would make changing the manager a trivial instead of a monumental task) though.

Would you be happy with Allegri and his football? He's definitely more accomplished than Ole clearly, but I don't know about him.

I really want a proactive and progressive manager if we did change the manager.

 

[Revan]

Would you be happy with Allegri and his football? He's definitely more accomplished than Ole clearly, but I don't know about him.

I really want a proactive and progressive manager if we did change the manager.

Let's not pretend that we are peak Barca. We have played dogshit football for 2/3rd of Ole's time here. Allegri does not play great football, but it is hardly boring Mourinho/Simeone type of football.

 

[sammsky1]

Moyes was also talking for next season, and LVG looked genuinely shocked to get fired. I think that only Mourinho was expecting to get fired.

Ed has been quite ruthless on firing managers, and not telling them that they're gone until they're gone. He also has been clueless at literally everything else.

That’s a fair point! Though in all previous circumstances, there was a lot of noise about changing the manager. I don’t hear that right now.

Lucky Ole has two chances at CL next season. It seems every game from now on is a must win knock out game. Abit like 1999.

 

[Mainoldo]

Let's not pretend that we are peak Barca. We have played dogshit football for 2/3rd of Ole's time here. Allegri does not play great football, but it is hardly boring Mourinho/Simeone type of football.

I beg to differ. His AC Milan football was dire.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Let's not pretend that we are peak Barca. We have played dogshit football for 2/3rd of Ole's time here. Allegri does not play great football, but it is hardly boring Mourinho/Simeone type of football.

We definitely aren't and we've certainly played some tumescent stuff with Ole.

I just would rather hire someone more proactive than Allegri.

I mean if Allegri is available and would come here, he's likely a far better manager than Ole going forward.

 

[Hound Dog]

Dunno, the board has been ruthless when it comes to UCL. LVG was sacked despite missing on UCL in goal difference (with likely more points than Ole will finish this year) and winning FA Cup.

I believe it might be UCL or get sacked. As it should be. The problem is that with yet again forgetting to hire a director of football, there won't be any contingency plans and then rinse and repeat again. Which is why Ole might get another season despite doing a poor job on his time here.

What is different this season is that United will have a second chance for CL in August while next season will start a month after that.

So they have the choice to sack him at the end of the league season and try to win the EL with a caretaker team or to sack him after the EL tournament and not give the new manager sufficient time to prepare for the new season.

What I am trying to save is that corona could be his saving grace.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I beg to differ. His AC Milan football was dire.

Maybe, but that side also heavily punched above its weight. Juventus were poor under Conte in Europe. Allegri came in and took them to 2 CL finals in 3 seasons. He definitely has his merits for credentials.

 

[Reiver]

If we fail to make top 4, it's a gigantic failure considering the quality of the league.

That's how I feel about it too.
We had Chelsea with a transfer ban and losing Hazard. Arsenal and Spurs are off the pace.
Ok City and Liverpool are much better but there's still two CL spots and we should be able to take one of them. I still think we will.
If we don't, I think it's fair to ask if Ole should continue but I fully expect he will.

 

[Revan]

What is different this season is that United will have a second chance for CL in August while next season will start a month after that.

So they have the choice to sack him at the end of the league season and try to win the EL with a caretaker team or to sack him after the EL tournament and not give the new manager sufficient time to prepare for the new season.

What I am trying to save is that corona could be his saving grace.

Yeah, it is likely that he is gonna get undeservedly another season. Rinse and repeat.

To be fair, the alternative is not much better. Hiring a new manager without time for a preseason, without having a director of football to have some contingency plans would be equally stupid. We're screwed either way, which is the best reflection for United past Fergie. A totally clueless club on every aspect, still living on the history of a different club made by people who have long gone.

 

[shahzy]

i was all for firing Ole in the first half of the season where it looked like there was no signs of progression, it wouldnt matter if we made top 4 playing like that because we weren't going anywhere. This unbeaten streak has shown me that there is clear progress being made. We look like we know what we want to do, the players look so damn hungry especially quiet Martial. When was the last time we saw Martial winning the ball back causing a turn over from opposition defenders? The man is found his passion. If playing poorly was down to Ole, then playing much much better is also down to him.

That's why i'd keep him even if we dont get top 4.The progress is right infront of us

 

[paraguayo]

Honestly this is the first actual promising football i've seen since SAF retired, how can people want to break it up for some new manager that the players might hate.

Tactics are irrelevant if the players are miserable. Allegri would be a horrendous choice. United just needs a LB and a better, or more specialized DM than Matic, and give these players a run at gelling together.

 

[SirAnderson]

It’s worrying that with an inferior team that Southampton to be honest were more than worthy for a point. Tactically I feel they won today & that’s down to the manager. Which worryingly continued second half too, we never ever looked comfortable & their equaliser wasn’t a great shock.

And Pep and Man City lost to these just 2 games ago.
They should sake Pep too.

 

[Rash Decision]

And Pep and Man City lost to these just 2 games ago.
They should sake Pep too.

Didn't City absolutely dominate the game and only lose due to their inability to finish their chances though? If so I think that's quite incomparable to being overrun by an inferior side.

 

[NecssryEvil]

Can we just have an opinion on the game instead of this boring nostalgia. It feels like that old United team when we win that trophy again. All the other managers had a segment of improving the team too.

What do you think went wrong today? I don’t blame Ole for today.. but man if we don’t provide him with good players we are screwed. No more Dan James transfers for him please.

Not sure what you are implying on the first paragraph, I just was saying that what I have seen since the break (really since Bruno signed) that things are looking more like I want them to than any time in recent memory. And the disfuncional team Ole inherited is finally starting to get some consistency we haven’t seen in a long time. But it is a young team that hasn’t been through the battles that gets them through days like today. There will be these bumps in the road every year, reacting In a positive way is when you start building the belief in each other.

I am not sure what happened today but I don’t put the full blame on Ole like it seams many want to do. Our best and most experienced player (Pogba has won a league and went fat in CL) spotted them a goal. Our second best had an off day. Our third and forth best missed on opportunities they slot home 75% of the time.

Until you go through the adversity of games like today and grow from them you wont progress. By the time ‘99 team won the treble, think of what the core of the team had been through. Not just the trophies they won. More importantly the ones they lost where they grew. In character and desire. I believe we have the players with the attitude that, while pissed off right now, will not shrink from the challenge. Ole has some growing to do, so does every player on the squad. This thought that just replacing the manager with someone else doesn’t change the fact that this is a young squad that needs to learn how to win these games.

 

[Matriac]

There are several people in the Ole threads tonight that I haven't seen anywhere near them in the last many weeks.
Well I'm still Ole In, and it IS. STILL. IN. OUR. HANDS.

We stumbled at the end of the game tonight, if not you would all still be quiet. 18 games undefeated.
I trust in the manager and no matter how it goes the next games I want him to have another season, but that won't matter as I'm certain that we will finish in the Champions League places.

Everyone wanted the same team, everyone cheered for the same starting 11, 5 games in a row for the first time since 93.

I was worried about the jinx at 55mins when they showed that in almost 200 games or so United have never lost at home if they lead at half time. At least that record still stands.

This is squeaky bum time. Stand behind your team. Stand behind your manager. Excuses are for the end of the season. You gotta believe!

 

[Bastian]

I've been largely unimpressed with him overall but since the league resumed I've been pleasantly surprised by our ability to handle deep sitting teams - something we've struggled with all season. I don't see an available outstanding managerial candidate out there, so even if we were to fail to get CL for next season, I still think he's doing some things that are important, like creating a much more positive atmosphere around the club, getting rid of deadwood, integrating young players, and trying to create a side that can play fluid attacking football.

For me, having him for one more season makes sense in the continued development of this team. If the team starts to consistently play with authority and has a strong season next year, keep him, if not, Nagelsmann is rumoured to look for a move to the Prem by then.

 

[NecssryEvil]

Didn't City absolutely dominate the game and only lose due to their inability to finish their chances though? If so I think that's quite incomparable to being completely overrun by an inferior side.

Completely overrun is bullshit and the fact that you give City a pass for not finishing their chances but not ours?!?!

 

[OleBoiii]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this thread(the title in particular) is a terrible look for this forum when it's constantly on the front page. Especially nowadays.

This could all be discussed in the Solskjær thread instead.

 

[Rash Decision]

Completely overrun is bullshit and the fact that you give City a pass for not finishing their chances but not ours?!?!

Yeah I edited my post. "Completely overrun" was too harsh but we did not control the game. I'd be less concerned if we dominated the game but just failed to finish our chances, as it could be put down to bad luck or the forwards having an off night.

 

[Withnail]

One bad game and the knives are out again I see

 

[Bastian]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this thread(the title in particular) is a terrible look for this forum when it's constantly on the front page. Especially nowadays.

This could all be discussed in the Solskjær thread instead.

Yeah, think they should be merged.

 

[RedSky]

Our best unbeaten run since Sir Alex retired (18 games in all comps), that alone must really hurt the Jose fanbois.

 

[Infra-red]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this thread(the title in particular) is a terrible look for this forum when it's constantly on the front page. Especially nowadays.

This could all be discussed in the Solskjær thread instead.

Why? There is a legitimate debate to be had on this topic, as most people on both sides would surely concede.

On any objective measure, it hasn't been a great season - if you want Solskjaer to stay, it is surely because you expect things to be much better next season, and probably much better again the season after that.

The likelihood of that ocurring, is something about which reasonable people can disagree.

 

[Attila]

His squad building seems right compared to Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. I didn't think he was good enough when he was appointed full time after a good caretaker run. But I dont think sacking him now would be a fair decision.

He seems to be building a decent squad. He might not get top 4 this season but I'm convinced he will next season. It's a low bar but we have missed out so many times these past years so it might now be our level just to aim for top 4.

If we want to be ruthless about it then I would sack him for Poch.

 

[NecssryEvil]

Yeah I edited my post. "Completely overrun" was too harsh but we did not control the game. I'd be less concerned if we dominated the game but just failed to finish our chances, as it could be put down to bad luck or the forwards having an off night.

Fair enough and props for changing your statement after reflecting. However, while I agree with the fact that we did not dominate, I would think both Martial and Rashford both failed to finish chances that they, if being honest, would tell you they should have scored with. Martial 2x actually.

Despite tonight’s result, I am still positive in the direction the team is going and I think a manager change at this point could set them back while the team adjusts and has the potential to go in the opposite direction.

 

[Red Company]

That is the thing we disagree about. The progress being made is only if we consider a specific part of the season. We had them under every manager (except probably Moyes, but even with him we had 0-5 away victories in UCL). We won 6 matches in a row with LVG in the same season we destroyed Spurs, Liverpool and City within 2 weeks.

If we consider the season, I fail to see the progress. On par to have our joined worst number of points in the history of EPL. If we somehow win all the remaining matches, great we reach UCL. With that number of points we would have reached UCL in 2 out of the last 10 seasons (and once because of GD). From 4 signings, we have 1/4 hit, 2/4 decent but vastly overpriced signings, and one that looks like a Championship player. Decent, but hardly great (we had decent but hardly great signings under every manager). He put Greenwood and Williams on the team, the first one is actually great, the second one is decent. Again, pretty much every manager did so. Mourinho put McTominay, Van Gaal put Rashford and a dozen others, Moyes put Januzaj. Yes, Greenwood is better (though Rashford is still ahead of him), but that is simply cause he is better.

Looking at the entire season, we have had the mediocre average season we are used to getting for the last decade, and we are likely gonna be in the European minion league again. Yet people claim that we're third-best team in the league (and comfortably so) and are gonna challenge for the title next season, when we are closer to getting relegated than winning the title (check the table if you don't believe me).

I think you fail to see the progress because statistics and numbers sum up your judgement. However, those can only go so far. When we came 2nd under Mourinho, people said we could’ve won the league with that points total in some seasons however the football was horrible to watch. Specially as a United fan.

Overall, our style of football is finally fun to watch now. It isn’t horrid anymore like under previous managers. For me that goes beyond any numbers or statistics. And that is why people have high hopes for next season because it’s obvious to see that we finally have a decent starting 11 that we didn’t have for most parts of this season. Hell even Greenwood, while present, wasn’t starting games like he is now.

My point is, we were already prepared for a lacklustre season. Most of us called it right at the beginning of the season when we at least failed to replace Lukaku and waited on Bruno. The blame for that doesn’t go on Ole. He was able to showcase his coaching only when he was given the tools who can actually implement it. Lingard & Pereira were not the tools. Let’s also not forget De Gea’s errors that literally cost us a few points on its own.

No matter who else you’d rather have as a manager, would’ve had a ‘mediocre season’ as well, if he was without our best players for large parts of this season. Which also directly correlates to my argument about the statistics and numbers you’ve provided.

All the statistics that you’re targeting were simply not possible this season. But they will be next season. With the same man in charge and the same team that’s playing right now. Albeit with a couple more signings obviously.