Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[theklr]

Even with those players. We’ll still have no style of play. We’d still be looking far from competing for a title and we’ll no doubt be wanting yet another CB.

Against teams going full on defensive mode, no we wont. But there will be enough individual brilliance to compensate for it.

I agree we wont compete for the title, but we would be comfortable inside top 4 and possibly a cup trophy. And to call that a write off season is abit harsh.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Annnnnnd there it is, the problem with this club in a nutshell really to be honest.

"flavour of the month, jean wearing, 30-something, German manager people are hyped about" I have no doubt you'd have turned your nose up at Klopp, why are you so resistant to change and modern managers. Why do you always want to look to the our past glories and try to repeat it instead of moving on and what not. Nagelsmann and Rose are better managers than Solskjaer and they are the managers of the now and the future, they aren't just flavours of the month.

We will regret it, why do you think top clubs covet these managers and they never Solskjaer? We are the only fanbase that chats shit about flavour of the month managers, that aren't flavours of the month, and wonders why we are hiring managers that are well past their best or bang average. Everyones too quick to turn their nose up at everything unless it's steeped in romantic and sentimental nonsense.

Here's what will happen, the top clubs will target the likes of Nagelsmann, Rose, Pochettino and others, whilst we sit here talking about how they are just flavours of the month and the mighty Ole will bring us back to the glory days because he used to play for us, where as these big clubs realise they aren't and won't turn their noses up at them. Expect them all to be at big clubs within the next 3 seasons i suspect, and you'll be like ah they aren't good anyway we didn't need them they are just German flavours of the month.

Simple - because the club tells them to, and to be a true fan you do and think whatever the club tells you to. Liverpool used to work in the same way, remember, for a very long time. Talking about past glories, keeping former players around, appointing them as managers, refusing to move with the times. Eventually Liverpool came around to a different way of thinking and as a result they've won the CL and are going to win the PL in successive seasons. I just hope it doesn't take us 20-30yrs before our club starts looking forward instead of glancing to the past.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

"Galactico" ain't just about price, though. It is about buying players on (big) reputation in stead of being the right fit for club and tactics. Pogba, Zlatan, Pigraiser, Falcao, Mkhitaryan (POTY in Germany), ADM, Sanchez, Lukaku all fit that description.

I still agree with you that praising Ole for buying cheap is wrong. The main difference is that the players bought under him all seem to fit better both as characters and as footballers. Some of those will be expensive, some won't.

I completely forgot about him sorry, he would've furthered Jose's case as being a galactico hunter I agree. And agree with your overall points.

Here's another one.

"Moving away from the Galactico signings", is Ole.

His and the club's #1 target for the summer?

£120m+ world's hottest property, most desired signing in Europe, Jadon Sancho.

You couldn't script it. It is unreal the mental gymnastics performed. Take a fecking bow.

 

[Mainoldo]

A couple of sincere questions for Ole outers:
1) Have you lately seen progression in passing pace, attacking patterns, players attitude, team cohesion and overall squad quality?

​

Your answer is "No"? Don't bother to read the second question, we'd never see things the same way anyway.​

2) Do you think all recent positives are just a fluke or purple patch from the back of signing Bruno Fernandes (and Odion Ighalo)?

Well, you may be right, but you really can't tell. It's about feelings and emotions on both sides in the debate. I prefer to be uplifted by good results and support what I see as progress. If you can't see the current progress, you really shouldn't be reading this (see above).​

​

A lot of Ole outers claim to know some "truth" about Ole's managing capacity by looking at "hard facts" such as our league table position, portraying Ole ins as sentimental and deluded. If it is just a purple patch, the players will revert back to mediocre/inconsistent. On the other hand, if we finally are reaping benefits from overhauling the squad and good coaching (catalyzed by putting a proper player in the important no.10 position), we could be in for an even brighter future. I don't know. I just feel we are building something, and that we may easily set ourselves back by sacking and hiring (again).​

​

Only time can tell. That's a fact. A real one. As some have said previously, passing judgement at present is pretty silly given that we've looked much better lately and we have everything to play for. Do you agree?​

1) Better compared to what? Do we look better than that game at Everton last season. Yes. Do we look better than the game against Bournemouth last season. Then No.

Depends on what you are looking for. If you believed the team was toxic and not the ex coach. Which by no coincidence has his new players kicking things on the bench and jumping into the stands. You might agree this is a much nicer place than 18 months ago.

2) Hard to tell. Not seen anything new and I mean as in a new style. But clearly we aren’t looking as bad as Burnley. Like some have said. Let’s see come May.

 

[theklr]

I completely forgot about him sorry, he would've furthered Jose's case as being a galactico hunter I agree. And agree with your overall points.

Here's another one.

"Moving away from the Galactico signings", is Ole.

His and the club's #1 target for the summer?

£120m+ world's hottest property, most desired signing in Europe, Jadon Sancho.

You couldn't script it. It is unreal the mental gymnastics performed. Take a fecking bow.

I agree, but its abit different since he is 20. £120 mill. if he performs the same way in the next 6-7 years its not a bad bargain to be fair.

 

[GaryLifo]

There's one good measure of Ole at the club and that's how the players view him

For me, Ole is the only post-Ferguson manager for whom the players haven't downed tools. You might be critical of all kinds of things but I don't think you can say the players aren't working for him and aren't behind him as their manager. There's no bust-ups no sulking and the team spirit is the best I've seen it in years.

 

[SteveTheRed]

Even with those players. We’ll still have no style of play. We’d still be looking far from competing for a title and we’ll no doubt be wanting yet another CB.

Style of play?

I could manage a team of OAP's and say my style of play is fast , quick counter attacking but it wouldn't look like that on the pitch. We've got Bruno in now and you can see Ole style of play working better already, we needed players with the ability to play that final pass - the quality wasn't there.

 

[Gehrman]

"Galactico" ain't just about price, though. It is about buying players on (big) reputation in stead of being the right fit for club and tactics. Pogba, Zlatan, Pigraiser, Falcao, Mkhitaryan (POTY in Germany), ADM, Sanchez, Lukaku all fit that description.

I still agree with you that praising Ole for buying cheap is wrong. The main difference is that the players bought under him all seem to fit better both as characters and as footballers. Some of those will be expensive, some won't.

Lukkaku wasn't and still isn't a galactico. Mhiki wasn't more of a galatico than Kagawa was.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I agree, but its abit different since he is 20. £120 mill. if he performs the same way in the next 6-7 years its not a bad bargain to be fair.

Of course, I'm all for big money signings if they're the right ones. I just take umbrage with those claiming Ole and the club are now this entity that avoids megastar, megabucks, Galactico signings because it's quite simply bullshit and nothing more.

 

[Gehrman]

There's one good measure of Ole at the club and that's how the players view him

For me, Ole is the only post-Ferguson manager for whom the players haven't downed tools. You might be critical of all kinds of things but I don't think you can say the players aren't working for him and aren't behind him as their manager. There's no bust-ups no sulking and the team spirit is the best I've seen it in years.

It's all early days. And all managers ship out players that don't want to play for them. But I agree Ole is probably a much nicer guy to work under than LVG and José. Moyes never was a winner as player and as a manager at all, so I can understand that all the players and the fans to be fair were underwhelmed by going from Saf to Moyes.

 

[Mainoldo]

Against teams going full on defensive mode, no we wont. But there will be enough individual brilliance to compensate for it.

I agree we wont compete for the title, but we would be comfortable inside top 4 and possibly a cup trophy. And to call that a write off season is abit harsh.

It’s a write off because what’s the difference with that and this season.

We are only comfortable if those around us don’t do anything. If Arsenal spend well. Chelsea spend well or even go full Inter Milan and just hire Allegri and give him the keys. All of a sudden your comfortable turns into this is going to be a tricky season. Top 4 won’t come easy.

Teams that don’t go full on defensive mode will be the ones that think they can beat us which also means we will be going full on counter attacking mode.

 

[90 + 5min]

Are there managers behind Solskjaer? Who are they? Steve Bruce?

Pochettino is an A list manager. Allegri too, just not the right fit for what we should be trying to do.

You got really low standard for A-list. Pochettino? If he ever won anything I could listen but to say he is A-list? With nothing to show as a manager.

With your counter-question I assume you think Solskjaer is worst manager in the league? Right?

 

[ReddBalls]

I completely forgot about him sorry, he would've furthered Jose's case as being a galactico hunter I agree. And agree with your overall points.

Here's another one.

"Moving away from the Galactico signings", is Ole.

His and the club's #1 target for the summer?

£120m+ world's hottest property, most desired signing in Europe, Jadon Sancho.

You couldn't script it. It is unreal the mental gymnastics performed. Take a fecking bow.

Why? The point is that Ole seems to do his homework on the players being bought. That obviously was not the case when the aforementioned players who seemingly was bought on reputation alone. If Sancho is deemed a good fit for the group and the football he wants to play, and on top of that has the right mentality, I really can't see why it should be a problem?

 

[Gehrman]

Of course, I'm all for big money signings if they're the right ones. I just take umbrage with those claiming Ole and the club are now this entity that avoids megastar, megabucks, Galactico signings because it's quite simply bullshit and nothing more.

Tbh I don't have a problem with buying galactico's as long as they are young or in their prime. It's generally worked out quite well for Real Madrid. Heavens forbid we should buy a player who's rated world class.

 

[Mainoldo]

Style of play?

I could manage a team of OAP's and say my style of play is fast , quick counter attacking but it wouldn't look like that on the pitch. We've got Bruno in now and you can see Ole style of play working better already, we needed players with the ability to play that final pass - the quality wasn't there.

If that statement made sense to you.

 

[Gehrman]

Why? The point is that Ole seems to do his homework on the players being bought. That obviously was not the case when the aforementioned players who seemingly was bought on reputation alone. If Sancho is deemed a good fit for the group and the football he wants to play, and on top of that has the right mentality, I really can't see why it should be a problem?

It wasn't all on reputation alone. ADM was class for Real Madrid the previous season. Lukkaku wasnt and still isn't a galatico, but was a consistent scorer at Everton and was actually good his first season with us. Pogba was class for Juventus. Depay was a wonderkid who scored something like 30 goals the season before. Tbh I'd argue there's also been something wrong with the club considering how consistenly many players come to us and drops several standards in quality.

 

[ReddBalls]

Lukkaku wasn't and still isn't a galactico. Mhiki wasn't more of a galatico than Kagawa was.

One was player of the year in Germany, the other was banging in goals for fun in the PL. They had reputations as a goalscorer and an assist machine, and that was seemingly the only qualifications being looked at. Their mentalitys obviously did not suit a bigger club. That way of doing recruitment has seemingly changed, and that was the point. Sorry if that was unclear in any way.

 

[theklr]

It’s a write off because what’s the difference with that and this season.

We are only comfortable if those around us don’t do anything. If Arsenal spend well. Chelsea spend well or even go full Inter Milan and just hire Allegri and give him the keys. All of a sudden your comfortable turns into this is going to be a tricky season. Top 4 won’t come easy.

Teams that don’t go full on defensive mode will be the ones that think they can beat us which also means we will be going full on counter attacking mode.

Have we at any point this season looked like comfortable top 4 finish? No? There you go. Thats a difference.

We would be comfortably top 4 this season if we hadnt lost to all those lower level teams. With Rashford, Sancho and Pogba/Graelish I dont see how we will loose to them.

I really really doubt any of those top 6 clubs (outside of Liverpool and City) is going to get the quality of players we are looking to get, IF we get Sancho and Grealish.

Not to mention that OGS has one of the best record against those teams, precisly because of his style of play. And with those players it would just enhance that.

I'm as sure of this as you are that it will be a write off. Only time will tell.

 

[Gehrman]

One was player of the year in Germany, the other was banging in goals for fun in the PL. They had reputations as a goalscorer and an assist machine, and that was seemingly the only qualifications being looked at. Their mentalitys obviously did not suit a bigger club. That way of doing recruitment has seemingly changed, and that was the point. Sorry if that was unclear in any way.

When we bought Lukkaku the market of strikers was so thin we only seemed to have the choice of Morata and Lukkuka. None of them are great strikers imo. Wasn't Kagawa also BL player of the year? Was he a galactico?

 

[ReddBalls]

It wasn't all on reputation alone. ADM was class for Real Madrid the previous season. Lukkaku wasnt and still isn't a galatico, but was a consistent scorer at Everton and was actually good his first season with us. Pogba was class for Juventus. Depay was a wonderkid who scored something like 30 goals the season before. Tbh I'd argue there's also been something wrong with the club considering how consistenly many players come to us and drops several standards in quality.

Reputation alone:
"He is class for Real Madrid, must be great regardless",
"He is scoring for fun at Everton, must be great regardless",
"Player of the year in Germany, must be great regardless",
"Depay his scoring for fun in the dutch league, must be great regardless".

Reputation and fit:
"He is class for Real Madrid, but can he do it here? Does he fit the way we want to play? Does he have the mentality to improve? Will he settle here? How does he handle adversity?"
"He is scoring for fun at Everton, but can he do it here? Does he fit the way we want to play? Does he have the mentality to improve? Will he settle here? How does he handle adversity?"
"Player of the year in Germany, but can he do it here? Does he fit the way we want to play? Does he have the mentality to improve? Will he settle here? How does he handle adversity?
"He is scoring for fun in the dutch league, but can he do it here? Does he fit the way we want to play? Does he have the mentality to improve? Will he settle here? How does he handle adversity?".

 

[Mainoldo]

You got really low standard for A-list. Pochettino? If he ever won anything I could listen but to say he is A-list? With nothing to show as a manager.

With your counter-question I assume you think Solskjaer is worst manager in the league? Right?

Who’s your A list and where does Solskjaer rank in it?

 

[Gehrman]

Reputation alone:
"He is class for Real Madrid, must be great regardless",
"He is scoring for fun at Everton, must be great regardless",
"Player of the year in Germany, must be great regardless",
"Depay his scoring for fun in the dutch league, must be great regardless".

Reputation and fit:
"He is class for Real Madrid, but can he do it here? Does he fit the way we want to play? Does he have the mentality to improve? Will he settle here? How does he handle adversity?"
"He is scoring for fun at Everton, but can he do it here? Does he fit the way we want to play? Does he have the mentality to improve? Will he settle here? How does he handle adversity?"
"Player of the year in Germany, but can he do it here? Does he fit the way we want to play? Does he have the mentality to improve? Will he settle here? How does he handle adversity?
"He is scoring for fun in the dutch league, but can he do it here? Does he fit the way we want to play? Does he have the mentality to improve? Will he settle here? How does he handle adversity?".

It's all good questions, I would agree, if a player isn't really keen on coming we shouldn't be after them at all.

A lot of the questions you ask are very difficult to answer in foresight tbh.

Fergie turned down David Silva because he thought he was too lightweight for the PL.

Newcastle turned down Zidane because they thought he wasn't good enough to make it there.

 

[ReddBalls]

When we bought Lukkaku the market of strikers was so thin we only seemed to have the choice of Morata and Lukkuka. None of them are great strikers imo. Wasn't Kagawa also BL player of the year? Was he a galactico?

I agree that neither were great strikers. They weren't necessarily galacticos, but they were bought in a period where name or recent performances weighed more than how they would fit the club. That is the same way Real Madrid operated, difference is it worked a lot better.

The approach seemes to be different now. Or we are just lucky to have a manager who is just better at getting new signings to perform.

 

[ReddBalls]

It's all good questions, I would agree, if a player isn't really keen on coming we shouldn't be after them at all.

A lot of the questions you ask are very difficult to answer in foresight tbh.

Fergie turned down David Silva because he thought he was too lightweight for the PL.

Newcastle turned down Zidane because they thought he wasn't good enough to make it there.

No one says it's easy, though. Ole is bound too have some duds soon.

 

[Mainoldo]

Have we at any point this season looked like comfortable top 4 finish? No? There you go. Thats a difference.

We would be comfortably top 4 this season if we hadnt lost to all those lower level teams. With Rashford, Sancho and Pogba/Graelish I dont see how we will loose to them.

I really really doubt any of those top 6 clubs (outside of Liverpool and City) is going to get the quality of players we are looking to get, IF we get Sancho and Grealish.

Not to mention that OGS has one of the best record against those teams, precisly because of his style of play. And with those players it would just enhance that.

I'm as sure of this as you are that it will be a write off. Only time will tell.

By the looks of things we might get chance to find out. Unfortunately I feel I will be right on this one.

 

[KennyBurner]

Ive come to the realization that Ole might be here for the long haul and that might not be a bad thing after all. As log as he keeps buying great players that can hide his lack of tactics we should be good. Its similar to zidane who I dont think he is a great coach but does well because of the structure already in place.

What scares me though is that without a player like bruno we go back to looking bland and mediocre. Then again it might be a bit harsh regarding we have had to rely on Lingard and pereira as our creative outlet for most of the season.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Why? The point is that Ole seems to do his homework on the players being bought. That obviously was not the case when the aforementioned players who seemingly was bought on reputation alone. If Sancho is deemed a good fit for the group and the football he wants to play, and on top of that has the right mentality, I really can't see why it should be a problem?

It isn't, for me. My problem is with fans claiming we no longer target big money signings and Galacticos because it's bollocks. We tried getting Dybala in the summer as a bloody whim, the second it was mooted he might come, we were all over it until his demands turned us off. It's complete nonsense, and again, I'm not against Sancho or anyone I'm against misleading information.

We just broke the world record fee for a CB for god's sake and you've got posters claiming Ole's got a different way of operating which doesn't simply involve 'finding the best man for the job and paying what it takes' - which is basically how most other managers operate! It just goes wrong sometimes and yes, I agree that Ole's approach is different to Jose (and LVG to an extent)…….I just disagree that it's what some fans are claiming it to be.

 

[mad1max954]

Erm, I think they expected Ole not to give Lingard a new contract, or think that he could rely on him to do a decent enough job in midfield, which I think he actually did and is one of the major mistakes he's made.

People glossed over that beanz beanz beanz shite but I thought it was so indicative of a mentality that was not fit for a successful side. It's probably exacerbated by the fact Ole used to be U 23s coach too so there are some complications there.

I think (well hope) that Ole is learning to be a bit more ruthless and to take a harder line with players like Lingard, which he absolutely has to do.

Totally agree on Lingard. It does seem to be the case now though that he has give him his chance and he is becoming a fringe player who will be moved on (finally!). That Beanz thing and the hotel room video.. even signing with Raiola.. its indicative of his weak mentality.

The other thing is its alright saying get rid of him, but you need to replace him, which is difficult when you have other more immediate holes in the squad.. As LVG said, it is a process and it takes time.

 

[RedBanker]

Freaks win hahah good few freak clean sheets too ! Luckiest team in the land

Need help?

 

[Gehrman]

Ive come to the realization that Ole might be here for the long haul and that might not be a bad thing after all. As log as he keeps buying great players that can hide his lack of tactics we should be good. Its similar to zidane who I dont think he is a great coach but does well because of the structure already in place.

What scares me though is that without a player like bruno we go back to looking bland and mediocre. Then again it might be a bit harsh regarding we have had to rely on Lingard and pereira as our creative outlet for most of the season.

I know Zidane has had great squads, but he's feckin won 3 CL's in a row, 1 la liga, 1 la liga runners up and is in title challenge this year. I know he's got the players but how much does he actually have to win to be rated?

 

[SAFMUTD]

There's one good measure of Ole at the club and that's how the players view him

For me, Ole is the only post-Ferguson manager for whom the players haven't downed tools. You might be critical of all kinds of things but I don't think you can say the players aren't working for him and aren't behind him as their manager. There's no bust-ups no sulking and the team spirit is the best I've seen it in years.

That can be good or bad, because even when players are not lowering their guns and some players have had an amazing season, such as Rashford, we still look shit.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The reason would be that it wasn't his main objective

Wait... So what's his main objective?

 

[Odin]

Of course, I'm all for big money signings if they're the right ones. I just take umbrage with those claiming Ole and the club are now this entity that avoids megastar, megabucks, Galactico signings because it's quite simply bullshit and nothing more.

My take on the galactico debate:
It is not about avoiding some player that somebody on a forum rate as a galactico or not. It's about not buying "shiny" toys (or worse: once "shiny toys...) but rather spend money on useful tools. If the tools happen to also be shiny and fun, so be it!

 

[RedBanker]

Who’s your A list and where does Solskjaer rank in it?

His A list will be topped by Roberto Di Matteo probably. CL and FA Cup winner. Something which a C lister like Pochettino cannot claim.

 

[Wilt]

Look how many players the bookies have us favourites for signing. Let me know how that goes too.

The world’s full of skint punters who think they know better than the bookies.

 

[Bilbo]

Wait... So what's his main objective?

Speculating of course, but I don't believe it was ever 'CL or bust' because the club are taking a longer term view on things nowadays. It was always going to take at least one season to turn this ship around, and I actually believe he is ahead of schedule all things considered. I'm no closer to the club than you are but I feel quite certain that Ole will lead the team into next season regardless of what happens results wise from here.

 

[e.cantona]

Speculating of course, but I don't believe it was ever 'CL or bust' because the club are taking a longer term view on things nowadays. It was always going to take at least one season to turn this ship around, and I actually believe he is ahead of schedule all things considered. I'm no closer to the club than you are but I feel quite certain that Ole will lead the team into next season regardless of what happens results wise from here.

If one is to belive what the club and Ole himself has said

 

[Shark]

Speculating of course, but I don't believe it was ever 'CL or bust' because the club are taking a longer term view on things nowadays. It was always going to take at least one season to turn this ship around, and I actually believe he is ahead of schedule all things considered. I'm no closer to the club than you are but I feel quite certain that Ole will lead the team into next season regardless of what happens results wise from here.

If Ole fails to get CL football at this point and he’s not relieved of his duties at the of the season, we’re truly done as a top club.

 

[Bilbo]

If Ole fails to get CL football at this point and he’s not relieved of his duties at the of the season, we’re truly done as a top club.

Well that's obviously not the case

 

[Shark]

Well that's obviously not the case

Whats obviously not the case? you said that you feel certain that Ole will lead the team into next season regardless of results/CL football. Do you genuinely feel comfortable with that as a fan of the club?