I've kind of come to the point where it's a black/white thing for me: he gets us top-4, he deserves another season; we finish outside the CL spots, we get a new manager.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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The fact the club keep needing to leak such statements is telling in itself. The OT crowd isn't getting on Ole's back, so for all they know everyone is happy - why keep telling? Methinks the lady doth protest too much. The same reason clubs give managers public backing and then go back on that when things go south. It's empty really, if he does well he stays, if he fails he goes. Like every other manager.
it's from podcast, not everything is a club briefing. .
I think is what our red faced accoutant feels like
.............
I often find Ed's press statements overly vague and open to interpretation as a result. Let's analyze this one for shits and giggles:
"We would never sign a player the manager wouldn't want because he wouldn't play him."
Here he states that no player will be signed by the club without prior approval from the manager. Makes sense
But we also feel the recruitment department, the football experts, should have a veto too."
Although somewhat contradictory to the previous sentence, it ties in with Jose's "I got vetoed bro wtf" comments last summer. That said, I think Ed is referring entirely to himself as the football expert (minus plural). He vetoed the Maguire deal alone.
My opinion on the alegged existence of this transfer committee is that we don't have one. Instead, we have an 'Ed', the chairman, ruler supreme, calling all the shots from his lofty penthouse position. Beneath him with have an 'Ole', the manager, doing whatever the feck he does when he's not at the wheel. Following him, we have the scouts (whose names aren't important enough to remember) making proposals based on the current flavor of the month.
In summary: the scouts make a proposal to the manager, the manager decides if he wants him, if yes, he makes the proposal to the chairman, the chairman then decides if he wants him.
Or something.
I often find Ed's press statements overly vague and open to interpretation as a result. Let's analyze this one for shits and giggles:
"We would never sign a player the manager wouldn't want because he wouldn't play him."
Here he states that no player will be signed by the club without prior approval from the manager. Makes sense
But we also feel the recruitment department, the football experts, should have a veto too."
Although somewhat contradictory to the previous sentence, it ties in with Jose's "I got vetoed bro wtf" comments last summer. That said, I think Ed is referring entirely to himself as the football expert (minus plural). He vetoed the Maguire deal alone.
My opinion on the alegged existence of this transfer committee is that we don't have one. Instead, we have an 'Ed', the chairman, ruler supreme, calling all the shots from his lofty penthouse position. Beneath him with have an 'Ole', the manager, doing whatever the feck he does when he's not at the wheel. Following him, we have the scouts (whose names aren't important enough to remember) making proposals based on the current flavor of the month.
In summary: the scouts make a proposal to the manager, the manager decides if he wants him, if yes, he makes the proposal to the chairman, the chairman then decides if he wants him.
Or something.
Good post
This. Its very likely to be as simple as this. All this veto talk just means 'we have good people here and we listen to their opinions' which we absolutely should do, otherwise why bother having anyone scouted in the first place.
He talks to people, they don't talk only when they need to print something. They all maintain some relationship with few members who act as source for them.
We brought in an experienced, international level center back (for a hell of a lot of money) and a right-back with Premier League experience (for a hell of a lot of money). We largely got rid of players who were on the fringe last season anyway, apart from Herrera, who has been a loss. We also last month brought in the best player in the Portuguese league, and a proven, albeit risky, striker. This idea that we've cleared out the squad doesn't really hold up. We strengthened our defense, slightly weakened our midfield (evened out by the signing of Bruno) and left our attack much the same as the side Ole was using last season.
And as you say, the signings have generally been successful so it's not like they've had issues bedding in because of a lack of experience at this level. 3 out of 4 of them walked right into the side.
I don't get it, I don't get the mentality the results are irrelevant because we're in a rebuild. Teams go through transitions all the time, we moved on a few players who were largely not first team players anymore anyway and brought in 3 (now 5) players who instantly became first team players, standard enough stuff for most teams in most summers. We generally have the same core squad that Ole had plenty of time to get to figure out last season. Since last season, bar the last few weeks, we have generally regressed.
You can say results don't matter all you want, but it's difficult to rebuild a side if you don't get CL football (admittedly there's a 40/60 chance we will at the moment). A top manager would've stood a much better chance of getting us CL football in a season like this. A top manager would help attract better players in the summer (like Sancho). A top manager would do a better job at rebuilding a team in transition than Ole. So.. why wouldn't we replace him with a top level manager? Why settle for such blatant mediocrity purely because we're in a rebuild and ignore so many other factors, like poor results and shitty football?
I really, really don't get it. It's like living in an old house that's falling apart at the seams instead of moving to a new, better house that you easily afford, just cause you like the new coat of paint you gave it.
Starting team against Everton.
It's a relatively inexperienced team, De Gea, Matic and Maguire by far the most experienced. The squad has also not really had much playing time at United with a few exceptions. Fred and McTominay are pretty much tied on the amount of minutes for United (which is relatively low given that Maguire isn't all that far away from the pair of them now).
AWB basically came to United with one seasons worth of football under his belt. Fred didn't play too much last season for the first half of the season, McTominay has been in and out. Greenwood is a rookie and Fernandes has just joined us.
From that lineup, 4 of them were either new signings or promoted youth. While 2 of them hadn't really played much for United before this season. The squad has changed hugely in the last 12 months. I'm actually surprised you're arguing otherwise. We'll agree to disagree.
Sidenote: I'm actually semi surprised Shaw has almost 10,000 minutes for United. Thought it'd be lower than that. I'm also surprised that Matic is getting closer to equalling his playing minutes at United to his Chelsea tally. He had 11,988mins for Chelsea.
Player | United Career Mins | Total Senior Career Mins |
|---|---|---|
Martial | 13,740 | 17,598 |
Greenwood | 1,768 | 1,768 |
Fernandes | 434 | 22,356 |
Fred | 4,396 | 18,675 |
Matic | 9,159 | 36,074 |
McTominay | 4,498 | 4,498 |
Shaw | 9,898 | 15,327 |
Maguire | 3,462 | 32,154 |
Lindelof | 8,809 | 18,460 |
AWB | 2,931 | 7,032 |
De Gea | 35,414 | 42,990 |
It's a relatively inexperienced team, De Gea, Matic and Maguire by far the most experienced. The squad has also not really had much playing time at United with a few exceptions. Fred and McTominay are pretty much tied on the amount of minutes for United (which is relatively low given that Maguire isn't all that far away from the pair of them now).
AWB basically came to United with one seasons worth of football under his belt. Fred didn't play too much last season for the first half of the season, McTominay has been in and out. Greenwood is a rookie and Fernandes has just joined us.
From that lineup, 4 of them were either new signings or promoted youth. While 2 of them hadn't really played much for United before this season. The squad has changed hugely in the last 12 months. I'm actually surprised you're arguing otherwise. We'll agree to disagree.
Sidenote: I'm actually semi surprised Shaw has almost 10,000 minutes for United. Thought it'd be lower than that. I'm also surprised that Matic is getting closer to equalling his playing minutes at United to his Chelsea tally. He had 11,988mins for Chelsea.
How does that compare to Everton’s team?
See below, note: This takes a while to do on a laptop, so please don't ask for anymore. It is interesting comparison though, as I thought Calvert-Lewin and Holgate were inexperienced and yet they really aren't.
| Dominic Calvert-Lewin | 6,979 | 8,658 |
| Richarlison | 5,498 | 13,532 |
| Davies | 6,904 | 6,904 |
| Walcott | 4,500 | 29,294 |
| Gomes | 2,908 | 14,965 |
| Sigurdsson | 8,191 | 30,832 |
| Coleman | 25,054 | 28,413 |
| Keane | 8,330 | 22,153 |
| Holgate | 5,875 | 9,677 |
| Baines | 35,339 | 48,371 |
| Pickford | 10,710 | 24,642 |
We had two of the worlds best coaches at our club, that didnt work out. We dont know what kind of coach Ole is because he is only starting. Barca did it with Pep, Madrid did it with Zidane.
Ole has shown glimpses in what he can do, the man needs time. He has improved players, he has signed good players. He has been unlucky with injuries. 1 year is not enough time, if all these Ole outers where around in the late 80's Fergie would have been gone. Lucky the board knows bit more about football than some of our 'fans'.
Ole’s been coaching for 10
Years he’s not new and we know what he’s about. The last time he was here he relegated Cardiff.
What world class coaches did we have? A man near retirement who’s known for getting sacked and a well known defensive narcissist who only last 3 years.
Please stop with this tired and just plain wrong argument. They were not two of the worlds best coaches when they arrived at United, not even close, but yet for all the amazing things Ole is apparently doing, we still sit outside the top four when we've had every chance to be there due to everyone being shite around us and last season he had pretty much everyone available at the end only to blow it and lose to Cardiff on the final day. Had Woodward waited a tiny bit longer to hire him, he'd not even be here let's be honest.
Yes and he took a team that has never won anything and broke Rosenbergs hold on Norwegian football. He has proven both as a player and a manager that he can win things. He also took over Cardiff in the worst period of there history, when there owner was trying everything he could to piss of the fans. He made a wrong move.
So because LVG was retiring he was no longer a good coach? I suppose Fergie was usless in his last year also as he was retiring? And Jose is one of the best managers that has managed in world football. If you want to say otherwise to suit your agenda be my guest. His record is there for everyone to see.
Don’t give a shite what he did in Norwegian. First your claiming his new now your telling us about him actually being a manager. Make your mind up.
Fergie wasn’t managing AZ Alkmar he was managing us. Jose Mourinho is currently Spurs’s manager doing a great copy of what he did here. Long may it continue.
Deluded soul.
See this guy gets it. If you have gone to experienced doctors who have failed to treat your disease you don't keep going to experienced doctors. You try faith healers, Shamans and Wizards. We have finally given up on the best coaches and have gone for someone who bleeds red like the United Jersey.
Here is the main and only important point. No one gives a shit that you don’t give a shit. OGS is our manager no matter what you think.
Deluded soul for thinking his opinion matters
Ole sure did everything himself for Molde. No, there were totally no other factors.
“Opinions don’t matter” says poster on internet forum.Here is the main and only important point. No one gives a shit that you don’t give a shit. OGS is our manager no matter what you think.
Deluded soul for thinking his opinion matters
If you want to deny facts to suit your agenda v
Yes he has managed before and is new, it is possible to be both. He has been in the job for a year and half. Not a long time. He took over a team that have not been anywhere near champions for 5 or 6 years, with the worst United team we have seen in 30 years, with major injuries to his most important players.
If I am deluded so be it. I am sure lots of fans where saying the same thing about the people who supported Fergie back in the late 80's. Constantly sacking and replacing managers has not worked out for us ever. We have only ever been successful as a club when a manager has been given time.
Ole will be here for next season at least, keep calm and enjoy it. We are still in the FA cup, we are still in the Europa and we are still in the hunt for the top 4. Sacking the manager isnt going to turn us into a title winning team over night.
They were only failures by the strictest standards. By the relaxed standard we allow Ole to operate at 2nd place and a European cup are a massive success.
They fell apart after he left so..
He could have won the league in Thailand and then broke the monopoly of the clubs who have been winning the league but that does not make him a competent coach who can win trophies at the top level. Now we are changing the goal post. No one has said anything bad about him as a player. It is all about his competency in Management. Don't be an idiot and compare him to LVG or Fergie. Both have won domestic trophies in most of the countries they have coached and won the CL too.
Nah don’t get me wrong, he did his part majorly for their success but he didn’t single handedly do it on his own.
Here is the main and only important point. No one gives a shit that you don’t give a shit. OGS is our manager no matter what you think.
Deluded soul for thinking his opinion matters
He’s your manager. He’s not mine. who is no one? Do you speak for everyone?
Keep backing ‘your’ manager. Seems to be the only thing your good for when actually discussing Manchester United.
This is why your deluded. Your buying cassettes whilst everyone else is streaming.
A good coach or decent coach or a manager that deserves some credit doesn’t always need to be as good as Klopp. Your mind is so twisting and that you haters always try to find a way to hate by making things up. No one said or thinks he’s at the moment as good as Klop. Toxic!
Ole was our attacking coach in 2007/2008 season when we won the double. Ever since Ole took in charge, some of our players are showing improvement. And not to mention, his record with top 6 teams are pretty good this season. Credit is given where it’s due but doesn’t mean you can twist it by making things up to be the toxic of the thread/forum.
‘Anyone who disagrees with me is toxic’ is possibly the most pathetic argument it’s possible to make.
For what it’s worth I actually think there are some promising signs of improvement at the moment.
Do yourself a favour though and stop using arguments like the above as it’s just pure cringe. This thread has literally pages of posts comparing Ole to Klopp. It’s right that that is debunked as the tumescent steaming pile of bs that it is. Ole might create his own legacy one day but let’s not pretend he has already and before you start with your triggered ‘toxic’ spiel, yes, lots of posters have done this.
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Are you here just to argue? This is not about agree and disagree.
We are talking about a poster who make things up and lie by mentioning someone has called Ole to be as good as Klopp. When clearly no one had said it.
He was asked to find a person who said Ole is as good as Klopp and he couldn’t answer it. Just because you lot are hater, doesn’t mean you can create your own fantasy lie. It’s toxic! If you want to make argument or discussion don’t create lie. Why is it so hard for you to understand that?
Good grief
Good grief with sarcastic laugh is probably the most pathetic response that is possible to make in argument. What a quality content of post.
Well there weren't many here who were opposed to us hiring either manager so either they were considered among the best in the World, or people in here are pretty Clueless. I was madly opposed to Mourinho myself but thought LvG would be a good fit so I was 1-1
I think we should all just lay off this thread till the end of the season. I mean are there any bases left to cover for either side?
2nd the previous year mind you.
The worst United team the last 30 years is his own doing.
Also by your point everyone should stand behind Jose on his 3rd season because of his 2nd place the year before
Insults? I've literally called you by your chosen name. Yes that is funny that isn't it. Think back to September time, the season has just started, Leicester are playing better under Rodgers. This is my combined United Leicester XI, do you think this is unreasonable?
Schmeichel (Much more consistent than DDG)
Chillwell (Fitter, faster, consistent compared to Shaw)
Evans (Solid, top class CB, stronger and more reliable than Lindelof)
Maguire
AWB
Tielemans (One of the bargains of the season, creative, energetic, many preferred him to the likes of Fred back in September)
Pogba
N'Didi (Absolute engine, has been behind everything Leicester have done well this season, they've dropped off recently due to his absence)
Rashford
Maddison (One of the best creative players in the PL)
Martial
Vardy (Goalscoring machine, top scorer this season, PL winner)
Can you really argue a case for Lindelof, Young (looked finished) Shaw (looked like he'd never get back into the team again), Dan James, Pereira, Lingard, Fred (at the start of the season when he came off the back of a poor season).
Thats 7 Leicester players to Uniteds' 4. Arguable Fuchs has been better than AWB this season but I've put AWB in because I think he'll ultimately grow into a better player.
Then they have the likes of Harvey Barnes, Praet, Gray and Perez.
Take your red tinted glasses off, their recruitment has been outstanding this past 4-5 years, they've ran their club better than ours.
Not only that, they're currently comfortable in 3rd place. Surely that's evidence alone that they started the season with a better, more complete, more balanced, peak team than we did. We started in a bit of a mess, in transition, forcing players out.
We've caught them up by signing Bruno and Ighalo, we have more depth and more options
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