Yep this has been my choice from the start as well. Let him finish this season then appoint Poch. Entering next season with him as a manager and ignoring Poch will be madness, a decision we'll regret years to come.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Yep this has been my choice from the start as well. Let him finish this season then appoint Poch. Entering next season with him as a manager and ignoring Poch will be madness, a decision we'll regret years to come.
How any true united fan could still be voting to sack him absolutely staggers me
Yes we have had a tough season , yes we have had some poor results.
However ....
When Ole came in we were a club on our knees with morale shot to bits full of deadwood that Jose had failed to get rid of and players that were causing nothing but trouble and disruption , he took the brave decisions to let Sanchez and Lukaku go and though Herrera was missed it’s pretty obvious that Ole knows exactly what he wants and the type of players he wants .
I can’t remember the last time a manager brought players in that have been immediate successes .Look at his signings
AWB . Still room to improve but looking like our best Right back since Gary N
Maguire taken time too settle but growing in stature in every game definitely our best CB since Rio and Vida
Dan James . Bought as one for the future and who has given his all and ran himself into the ground for the club .
Bruno hit the ground running and looking like he could be our best signing for years .
The improvement in Fred should also be noted a disaster under Jose now the first name on the team sheet,
Ole has got us closing in on the top 4 even after the horrendous injuries we have had resulting in having to play the like of Pereira and Lingard on a regular basis .
He has managed the Pogba situation with poise and dignity unlike Jose who just made bad situations even worse .
Finally the job he has done with the kids is just fantastic .
Mctominay has turned into an integral part of the team .
Greenwood has been given a chance to sign and has developed immeasurabley
Williams looks like a future 1st teamer and international fullback .
Still in the UEFA cup
Still in the FA cup
A real chance of top 4 finish
unlucky not to be in lge cup final .
not to give him another season would be an absolute Disgrace
Get real and get behind him .He deserves another season.
Yes we have had a tough season , yes we have had some poor results.
However ....
When Ole came in we were a club on our knees with morale shot to bits full of deadwood that Jose had failed to get rid of and players that were causing nothing but trouble and disruption , he took the brave decisions to let Sanchez and Lukaku go and though Herrera was missed it’s pretty obvious that Ole knows exactly what he wants and the type of players he wants .
I can’t remember the last time a manager brought players in that have been immediate successes .Look at his signings
AWB . Still room to improve but looking like our best Right back since Gary N
Maguire taken time too settle but growing in stature in every game definitely our best CB since Rio and Vida
Dan James . Bought as one for the future and who has given his all and ran himself into the ground for the club .
Bruno hit the ground running and looking like he could be our best signing for years .
The improvement in Fred should also be noted a disaster under Jose now the first name on the team sheet,
Ole has got us closing in on the top 4 even after the horrendous injuries we have had resulting in having to play the like of Pereira and Lingard on a regular basis .
He has managed the Pogba situation with poise and dignity unlike Jose who just made bad situations even worse .
Finally the job he has done with the kids is just fantastic .
Mctominay has turned into an integral part of the team .
Greenwood has been given a chance to sign and has developed immeasurabley
Williams looks like a future 1st teamer and international fullback .
Still in the UEFA cup
Still in the FA cup
A real chance of top 4 finish
unlucky not to be in lge cup final .
not to give him another season would be an absolute Disgrace
Get real and get behind him .He deserves another season.
We had 2 wins in a row in the league, of course great work but hardly something that hasn't happened this season before and was followed by another series crap results. The real short term memory is focusing on those few wins and ignoring the overall season. Don't people get tired of false dawns ?
Great week, let him finish the season then move on for a better manager.
Great week, let him finish the season then move on for a better manager.
Just a thought but....
Is this not an argument for making ole DOF as he's targeting the right players but his coaching and in game managment(let's be honest)are not the best.
Just think of oles signings working with a top first team coach.
Personally though lets do what we should have done last year and wait untill the end of the season
We've been 5 points from 14th most of the season. The reason why we are still in the top 4, now top 5 race, is that Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs have been crap as well. Even City are having a crap season by their standards. I agree with your positives but you can't ignore the results.
Do you think United will sign more than 3-4 players in the summer? If Matic goes, then maybe 4 players: CF - RF - L/CM - DM.
Out: Pogba, Lingard, Matic, and one of Rojo/Jones (or both).
I think we are fine in defence with what we´ve got, with Bailly and Tuanzebe back, plus Fosu-Mensah/Bernard. And I expect a better next season from Lindeløf - when he´s not a newborn father. We´re thin on the backs, but here we could also look to the academy.
Pereria may not be sold or replaced - only if we bring in both Maddison and Grealish. Sounds too good to me.
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Nah, not really. While I agree sacking him now would be pointless.. who could we replace him with (assuming Poch isn't available until the season ends)? Definitely needs replacing in the summer though.
Saw a stat on NBCSN where under the first 34 PL games under Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Ole, Ole was comfortably worst in terms of wins, points, goal difference. Wish I could find it again.
To want him to continue as manager is to want us to never be successful again for another 10 years. He has to go.
If we get top 4 there can be no complaints. I don't think people realised the size of the task was when he took over.
He's dispensed with the deadwood. He's quarantined the Pogba toxicity. He's now not even benched but dropped Jesse and Pereira! All whilst getting results, bringing through the youngsters and building a really strong team spirit.
Think of the injuries and the players we have had to put up with this season! Imagine we get a good window in the summer and fewer injuries next season... We're really not far off.
He's dispensed with the deadwood. He's quarantined the Pogba toxicity. He's now not even benched but dropped Jesse and Pereira! All whilst getting results, bringing through the youngsters and building a really strong team spirit.
Think of the injuries and the players we have had to put up with this season! Imagine we get a good window in the summer and fewer injuries next season... We're really not far off.
No, let him finish the season, then decide on his future.
He will see the season out no matter what so hopefully he can start building a run of results. Unless he manages an unbelievable next few months until the end of the season, he has to go.
Yeah, replace him for another manager who never won anything in 5 years with Kane, Son and Alli.
Yes there is definitely an argument to be made that he could create a position for himself in that role.
I feel the one thing Ole has done that is unquestionable is recruitment and especially establishing the younger players.
It would also be an easier option for the club to reposition Ole in another role rather than sack a club legend and the bad press that will bring.
That said I still feel a lot of what I want in a manager Ole is trying to fulfil, I want to see Ole achieve the finished squad and see how we compete then.
Right now Ole is making the right signings, bedding the youngsters in and trying to play the right way.
The worst that happens is he continues to add quality and ultimately hands over a much better squad.
For me it will be madness to ignore Poch and gamble on another season that can very well be as shite as this one. This season won't improve to anything more than average the next few months and I doubt that. Last 2 wins are great but we defeated Spurs and City in a row previously then returned to be shite again.
Beside I don't see anything that people think Ole will do while Poch won't.
For me ignoring Poch this summer for Ole will be a decision we will look for within few upcoming years and regret massively.
However I don't want him sacked now. No reason for that and I have said that previously. Let him finish the season then we can move on. I'm ready to forget everything else and focus on the good players he bought like Bruno and AWB if he leaves in summer.
Not like we currently have a world class manager who won shite ton and proved himself on world level. This comparison is lame and nonsense. Poch is a step above Ole whatever you like it or not.
They’re Kane, Son and Alli because of him.
And he still couldn't win anything. So what's your point?
Whether you like it or not Poch never won anything either. If we are going to replace Solskjaer, at least replace him with a winning manager. Otherwise, I could see you whinging again in another twelve months. Our last two managers were world class by the way.
My point is there’s no variables to your opinion. You just want us to stick with Ole. You say atleast get a winning manager. So who do you want Allegri?
Whether you like it or not Poch's CV is far better than Ole's and proved himself on a far higher level and with far less budget to work with. You can say you prefer Ole's approach and want to see his project to the end, OK, OK, fine with me, each has his own preference, but saying things like replacing Ole with someone who hasn't won a thing is simply lame, and points to the idea we are having currently a world class manager who won shite ton and proved himself more than Poch, which we all know it's not true, again whether you or me or anyone else likes this fact or not.
I've never said blindly stick with Ole. I just don't see the point in changing things now. If we get dumped out of all comps and end up in 7th or 8th, it would be very hard to justify his tenure. But people want him gone because they don't see him winning anything at United but they want to replace him with another manager who never won anything either and with an arguably better squad too. If we're going to go with that logic, we might as well go for Wilder or Espirito Santo?
I think some people here are living in their own parallel world, If Ole gets top 4, he will stay for another transfer window, who would sack him if we get top 4? it is out of question! I personally think he would get replaced if we would not get top 4. Apparently, people follow their own deserves while they are blind to the reality and our situation. We struggled with lots of troubles, we are in 5th place and still in the race for top 4, things can get changed in the future but no one would sack him now because you want Poch or anyone asap.
Martial been of our most highly rated players amongst the fan base. I’ve been Ole out since he got the job, best football decision the board made was not backing mourinho and selling martial to sign Perisic. Maybe, we might have launched a title challenge if we backed Mourinho with the type of signings he wanted but it would have been akin to a crack high that quickly wore off, and we wouldn’t have been able to repeat.
So yeah. As you see being Ole out doesn’t mean people were Mourinho should stay and doesn’t say anything about the views on certain players. Pretty certain you’ll find varying onions.
How is it 'better'? The guy hasn't won anything? Let's go for Ranieri then?
Ole must be liked by the board they let him sign Fernandes in January. Ii think if we finish 4th Ole will go on to be a legendary manager. A lot at stake this year.
Why is the winning aspect so much important when Poch comes in discussions while on the other hand people have no problem if Ole won nothing at United as long as he's selling deadwood and doing the "rebuild"? We aren't having a trophy hunter manager either, you know, and his supporters want him to stay because he will "rebuild", he will "sell the deadwood", he will "play youngsters", then when we say Poch will pretty much do all this to a same or even better degree and can do even more, suddenly winning trophies becomes the most important aspect, and we can't hire a manager who won nothing, but let's keep Ole, not because he will win us trophies but because of the "rebuild". What will prevent Poch from doing this "rebuild" too? And if he won nothing at United it will be fine as long as he "rebuilt" the squad, like what Ole supporters are using this as a shield to defend him with whenever bad results happen.
The difference in standards between the two here is just funny for me and honestly doesn't make any kind of sense.
What's the most important thing for you? If it's rebuilding the squad in this period then why Poch isn't suitable? If it's winning trophies now why are we keeping Ole currently?
*sigh* you've kinda conflated your arguments and contradicted yourself a bit here. We're just going round in circles. Never mind, we'll just agree to disagree and see how things pan out. Peace brother.
We aren't agreeing to disagree till you answer the question. What's the most important thing for you currently, rebuilding the squad or winning trophies?
Then, If you believe Poch can do the same thing Ole does, and neither will win trophies, what is the point of changing manager?
I want him changed because he has not been able to get us to play the best way with the players he has. Yes I know that he is going to be here till the end of the season at least. You cannot press when the defence is so slow. The reason is when you press you need to compact the pitch. Which means the defence has to be at least at the half way line of beyond. You can call it a high defence line. You cannot do that when your both central defenders are so slow. With Maguire and Lindelof you simply cannot do that and that is why our pressing is so useless.
The other issue is that you cannot play two midfield players in a straight line too as he is doing with Matic and Fred. There is simply too much space between the midfield and the CBs for other teams to exploit.
Our movements off the ball is still terrible. One player like Fernandes is not going to change it. Every time we get the ball the players put their heads down and try to beat two or three opposing players. We do not move off the ball well and we do not move the ball quick enough. Look at our goals. It is mostly an individual piece of brilliance from a player. Our defending is pathetic and our corners are not varied at all. It is all one way. Try to get Maguire to head it. No variation at all. When was the last time we had a near post corner and a flick?
By the way I am not a fan of Poch and I do not think he is the one to take us forward. I would prefer someone like Nagelsmann who is a top class young coach who has very good coaching ability.
The other issue is that you cannot play two midfield players in a straight line too as he is doing with Matic and Fred. There is simply too much space between the midfield and the CBs for other teams to exploit.
Our movements off the ball is still terrible. One player like Fernandes is not going to change it. Every time we get the ball the players put their heads down and try to beat two or three opposing players. We do not move off the ball well and we do not move the ball quick enough. Look at our goals. It is mostly an individual piece of brilliance from a player. Our defending is pathetic and our corners are not varied at all. It is all one way. Try to get Maguire to head it. No variation at all. When was the last time we had a near post corner and a flick?
By the way I am not a fan of Poch and I do not think he is the one to take us forward. I would prefer someone like Nagelsmann who is a top class young coach who has very good coaching ability.
I only managed to see the first half today. The results are obviously improving which is good. I didn't see the second half so can't comment, but on the first half what concerns me is the way we seem to score our goals. We do seem to rely on gaining possession in the final third and playing one or two passes to create a chance which is finished off by one of our gifted players.
Finishing top 4 though and he obviously then deserves to be considered to stay on. But as I said, what concerns me most is how indecisive our players look at times. With really well drilled teams, there's not as much hesitation, they know what they should be doing in any given situation and don't pause so often to think about it. I notice this especially in `Guardiola teams. We are capable of smash n grabs against top sides and relying on individual quality to score goals in other matches. But, have to say I still find us really unconvincing. There are moments when the quality seems to occur, but I feel like there should be more. I can't shake the feeling a better manager would get a hell of a lot more out of this squad.
It's not really anti-Ole, many of us in this camp wanted him to get the job after that heady first run of results. What's concerning is that performances like when he first took over are really thin on the ground and you would expect more of them with the more time he's had.
I'm genuinely open to being convinced he is the right man for the job I'm just not seeing it. But it makes sense he should at least see out the season.
It's interesting how he's like the polar opposite of LVG. I never doubted LVG had a well drilled side, if anything they were too well drilled there was no creativity left. Ole's like the opposite. I feel like the right manager would be able to achieve a happy medium. But who knows, if performances keep getting better and he gets top 4, as I said there will be enough reason to give him more time.
Finishing top 4 though and he obviously then deserves to be considered to stay on. But as I said, what concerns me most is how indecisive our players look at times. With really well drilled teams, there's not as much hesitation, they know what they should be doing in any given situation and don't pause so often to think about it. I notice this especially in `Guardiola teams. We are capable of smash n grabs against top sides and relying on individual quality to score goals in other matches. But, have to say I still find us really unconvincing. There are moments when the quality seems to occur, but I feel like there should be more. I can't shake the feeling a better manager would get a hell of a lot more out of this squad.
It's not really anti-Ole, many of us in this camp wanted him to get the job after that heady first run of results. What's concerning is that performances like when he first took over are really thin on the ground and you would expect more of them with the more time he's had.
I'm genuinely open to being convinced he is the right man for the job I'm just not seeing it. But it makes sense he should at least see out the season.
It's interesting how he's like the polar opposite of LVG. I never doubted LVG had a well drilled side, if anything they were too well drilled there was no creativity left. Ole's like the opposite. I feel like the right manager would be able to achieve a happy medium. But who knows, if performances keep getting better and he gets top 4, as I said there will be enough reason to give him more time.
Sometimes I'm so baffled by the Ole outs agenda like this.
"Good coaching ability" wtf?
This is the most modern style I've seen from a United side.
De Gea - Maguire - Lindelof combo controlling the ball like training sessions,
Not to mention our full backs are notably more composed when having the ball,
Martial improving so much, he is steadily changing into a top quality striker, unlike when he was only good at one or two things,
Rashford evolved, Fred evolved, Shaw improving,
Bedding in youngsters,
What coaching? Sheffield United/Swansea/Barcelona level of playing fancy tiki taka???
I'm sure there is a point in here. I just don't understand what it is.
This will get lost on the Ole out brigade, but the fact that Bruno has managed to insert himself straight into the team and perform well might give more credence to the argument that our coaching isnt that bad, rather that the quality of players at Ole's disposal in the creative midfield role this seasons has been absolutely shocking.
There is actually a clear coaching style in that Martial is playing as a false nine and both the "wingers" or "wide forwards" have been instructed to get in the channel between the centre back and the right/left back and either provide width or cut in and open up the space in front of the defence for Martial to manuever into.
There is actually a clear coaching style in that Martial is playing as a false nine and both the "wingers" or "wide forwards" have been instructed to get in the channel between the centre back and the right/left back and either provide width or cut in and open up the space in front of the defence for Martial to manuever into.
Ole's United at the moment are just frustrating, in different games I can see the arguments for Ole in and Ole out. But post Fernandes the team certainly seem to have woken up a bit.
Watching you during January was at times horrendous, the Burnley game for example was just painful and fitted the no plan no tactics argument and I completely get the worry about his win rate.
But in your 6 games since then (and yes I know this includes Tranmere, but it also includes City and Chelsea) you've scored 13 and only conceded 1 which was that ridiculous route one goal from Brugge. Some will argue VAR has been a bit of a saviour, but though I think it was completely wrong with the Maguire red card decision, the goals it ruled out against Chelsea and Watford were ,in my mind, all correct decisions.
The defence looks better, Martial has scored 4 in 6, Bruno has been a catalyst for many players around him, I am amazed by how quickly he's not only just settled in but affected the whole team.
EDIT correcting Martial 5 in 6 to 4 in 6
Watching you during January was at times horrendous, the Burnley game for example was just painful and fitted the no plan no tactics argument and I completely get the worry about his win rate.
But in your 6 games since then (and yes I know this includes Tranmere, but it also includes City and Chelsea) you've scored 13 and only conceded 1 which was that ridiculous route one goal from Brugge. Some will argue VAR has been a bit of a saviour, but though I think it was completely wrong with the Maguire red card decision, the goals it ruled out against Chelsea and Watford were ,in my mind, all correct decisions.
The defence looks better, Martial has scored 4 in 6, Bruno has been a catalyst for many players around him, I am amazed by how quickly he's not only just settled in but affected the whole team.
EDIT correcting Martial 5 in 6 to 4 in 6
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Head scratching as I read this...
Maguire and Lindelof do anything but control the ball like it's a training session
Their play out from the back was absolutely woeful today, until Watford gave up, as it often has been this season even against the dregs of the league.Martial scored two great goals but was totally absent from the match against Chelsea and absent for most of today as well. Fair enough he's finally at least contributing in vital moments but a top quality striker he is not right now.
Maybe it’s not that bad but it’s also not that good. What you’ve described is a basic attacking principle, forward moves and creates space for other players to exploit in behind. I’ll bang on about Guardiola again but the way his teams play where the ball is constantly moving between the lines, testing and probing one side then another, then another, loading each side with pressure until there’s a lapse in concentration, and a chink appears that lets one of their forwards in. We have nothing like that.
I get there’s more than one way to play football but we are so reliant on counters to get space. Moreover our midfield is so disjointed, the amount of times Fred gets caught in possession in the centre circle because that’s our only way of playing up the field is through him. A better team than Watford would have punished us today. But when we play better teams we give them the ball and sit back and hope for a plucky counter. It’s been really effective but it reminds me of Leicester when they won the league. With the players we have we can and should be doing better. We have no way of exerting dominance in matches. We never look dominant. You can say I’ve got it in for ole if you like but it’s just way I see it.
The style of football at times reminds me of the worse games from the LVG and the worse games from the Mourinho era. Today was no difference, Watford could've easily scored 2-3 goals in the first half but they have some horrible finishing. We don't have a system in place to create chances and we've had a ton of luck not to concede more goals given how bad our defending is at times. I don't know what happened to Maguire, he seems to have forgotten the basics of defending at times.
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