Be careful what you wish for:
"3 years of excuses and it's still crap... Ta ra Fergie"
1989 all over again.
"3 years of excuses and it's still crap... Ta ra Fergie"
1989 all over again.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Ole is a club legend and one of the most respected professionals coached by SAF. But people can't confuse one thing with the other. A great professional doesn't make for a great coach.
This club needs a great manager to get back to making us one of the most feared clubs on the planet. We cannot depend on someone on a learning curve. It's no disrespect towards Ole but coaching 10 years in the Norwegian league, less one with Cardiff is about 10 steps too far to take on the United job.
All great managers have one thing in common. Less Pep because he isn't human. They start lower down, make reputations at certain clubs and gradually work their way up to the top managerial positions. Not staying stagnant for 10 years.
Once again no disrespect towards Ole but before he came to United, would he have appeared on a list of the top 100 managers in World football, or even top 200 after 10 years in management ? There's a reason why he's coached in the Norwegian league for the last 10 years. It's because nobody has deemed him good enough, other than Cardiff who soon discovered he doesn't have any magical powers, then all of a sudden one of the worlds superpowers decided to appoint him as their manager? Stephen King couldn't have written a better novel.
If United want to go down that path then the only man for the job is Lauren Blanc. Apparently we spoke to him before appointing Ole as interim but he apparently turned us down because he wanted the job full time. The club said no because they seen it as too much of a risk
First managerial job was with Bordeaux. His first season he won manager of the year, second season he won league and Cup double, third season topped the CL ground including Bayern and Juve. Eliminated in the quarters.
Took charge of France after their FA decided to suspend all players that took part in the South African WC. He still topped the qualifying group which included a 23 match unbeaten run. Lost to Spain in the quarters. Pretty good record considering all the infighting France was going through.
At PSG people will say he was expected to win everything which might be true but 11 trophies in 3 years is still a pretty good haul.
An exciting, attack minded coach who can obviously work with big egos and United turning him down just shows how little Ed really does know about football.
This club needs a great manager to get back to making us one of the most feared clubs on the planet. We cannot depend on someone on a learning curve. It's no disrespect towards Ole but coaching 10 years in the Norwegian league, less one with Cardiff is about 10 steps too far to take on the United job.
All great managers have one thing in common. Less Pep because he isn't human. They start lower down, make reputations at certain clubs and gradually work their way up to the top managerial positions. Not staying stagnant for 10 years.
Once again no disrespect towards Ole but before he came to United, would he have appeared on a list of the top 100 managers in World football, or even top 200 after 10 years in management ? There's a reason why he's coached in the Norwegian league for the last 10 years. It's because nobody has deemed him good enough, other than Cardiff who soon discovered he doesn't have any magical powers, then all of a sudden one of the worlds superpowers decided to appoint him as their manager? Stephen King couldn't have written a better novel.
If United want to go down that path then the only man for the job is Lauren Blanc. Apparently we spoke to him before appointing Ole as interim but he apparently turned us down because he wanted the job full time. The club said no because they seen it as too much of a risk
First managerial job was with Bordeaux. His first season he won manager of the year, second season he won league and Cup double, third season topped the CL ground including Bayern and Juve. Eliminated in the quarters.
Took charge of France after their FA decided to suspend all players that took part in the South African WC. He still topped the qualifying group which included a 23 match unbeaten run. Lost to Spain in the quarters. Pretty good record considering all the infighting France was going through.
At PSG people will say he was expected to win everything which might be true but 11 trophies in 3 years is still a pretty good haul.
An exciting, attack minded coach who can obviously work with big egos and United turning him down just shows how little Ed really does know about football.
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Nah, he'd look good. James has been crossing it low a few times in our recent games, but Rashford doesn't smell the blood and is ball-watching when the ball cross 4-5 yards ahead of him.
As for the brainfarts costing us points (Tuanzebe vs Arsenal, Lindelöf/Maguire against CP) and missed penalties, you can't really put that on Ole.
Is every manager we sign is a potentially Fergie if given time?
Are we the same club we were back in the 80’s financially? Have we not become a giant thanks to the same Fergie?
It’s in the past, we’ll never have Fergie again, we’ll have other managers.
It's like buying Bolasie and expecting him to become Ronaldo given time, because patience paid off with him. It's so daft. Look how impatient fans are with Martial/Rashford and the lack of belief in them being 30 goal a season guys, because they haven't proven it yet these same people expect Ole, who has shown less quality as a manager than they have as potential forward stars, to randomly become a world class manager.
I also don't get the argument that no one can do any better. That's utter rubbish, even if our squad is not amazing that doesn't mean this is the best our team can achieve. If anything, not many would do much worse than Ole!
Wasnt his AC Milan league when Juve were fined and demoted?
Exactly. Nicely put. People need to come back to reality some time! Maybe after this next month they will realise.
It's amazing how many of you think we should've waited until the end of last season before making him permanent manager. I specifically remember the cries of, 'at least let him make the team in his own image' whenever anyone questioned the timing of his appointment.
The way Ed handles business, I've no faith whatsoever in him making the right calls, so we might as well stick this out until the wheels finally come off. Plus, as others have said, at least Ole seems to be moulding a decent young team, with potential for the next guy.
The way Ed handles business, I've no faith whatsoever in him making the right calls, so we might as well stick this out until the wheels finally come off. Plus, as others have said, at least Ole seems to be moulding a decent young team, with potential for the next guy.
I believe we've seen three doing worse than Ole over time in our club already. Moyes had no clue, he tried to make us play like his Everton. He succeeded.
LVG brought in a good mix of players, but his focus on keeping the ball overshadowed his focus on creating something and winning games.
Mourinho took over a poor squad, spent ££££ and pretty much got the entire squad against him, except Lukaku, DDG and McTominay.
LVG brought in a good mix of players, but his focus on keeping the ball overshadowed his focus on creating something and winning games.
Mourinho took over a poor squad, spent ££££ and pretty much got the entire squad against him, except Lukaku, DDG and McTominay.
It was Juve's fourth season back in Serie A and the last one before their dominance started. It was also the season Benitez took over from Mourinho at Inter. So you could say it was the ideal moment for Milan. Still, you can only beat what's in front of you, it was his first season in charge of Milan and he did win them the first title in 7 years or something.
Not that I'm a fan of him, I don't really have an opinion either way.
Keep him for now. If he can turn it around then good.
If he can't, well, club needs to hit rock bottom and we hope they learn from there
Say if we sacked Ole today and hired another average manager, he might get something out of this squad but as a matter of fact, our board is clueless and they would feck up whatever momentum in few years time anyway.
We need is a proper structure first. I just don't fecking trust Woodward anymore
If he can't, well, club needs to hit rock bottom and we hope they learn from there
Say if we sacked Ole today and hired another average manager, he might get something out of this squad but as a matter of fact, our board is clueless and they would feck up whatever momentum in few years time anyway.
We need is a proper structure first. I just don't fecking trust Woodward anymore
Sorry, I had to go to sleep before watching your replay.
The pressure dropped from the likes of Arsenal because they used to finish 4th and now have been finishing 5th and 6th for 3 years in a row, so no one is expecting anything more from them. That's the problem I'm talking about, once you get used to finishing low in the league, the expectation starts to drop and you start to become a midtablr club. The pressure on United is similar to the pressure on City, Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc which is logical. You can't start accepting finishing 6th and 8th in any one of these teams currently. Madrid sacked 2 managers alone last season and the season was considered a disaster even though they finished 3rd, so no, the pressure isn't exclusive.
Anyway majority of the fans this season were just expecting 4th, playing good football and developing youth, which as I said just the bare minimum expected from any big club. No one said we should challenge City or Pool for the title or something.
I'm sorry but what you said regarding the play style point doesn't mean anything about us having a coherent football. What's improved defense has to do with having a coherent, strong game plan on the pitch, with the attacking players making good movement around the defender with a set up and coached attacking trick learned between them and the play makers, thus the team looking to know what to do once they have the ball in possession? That's what is called a coherent plan and style. United is far from that. We are totally clueless with the ball and are struggling to break down well packed defenses.
The defense improved because we signed 2 of the best defenders in the league this summer, so I don't know how is this related to the play style of the team in general.
For the youth, Gomes featured one time in the league as a sub, Chong one time too, Garner hasn't and Greenwood gets the last 10 or 20 minutes or so. We only wait for league cup or EL games to play them for a big chunk of the games even though the seniors are actually massively under performing like Lingard. James was a summer signing, of course he was going to play? And are you seriously considering Rashford, Pogba and Martial among the context?
We struggled in every game this season bar Chelsea game :
Wolves :1-1, couldn't manage a second goal to win.
Palace : lose 1-2 at home, we equalized in the dying minutes of the game before conceding again. Spent the entire match losing and struggling to score, and the goal was an individual skill.
Soton: 1-1, struggled to score another goal to win again.
Leicester : 1-0 win via a pen in the early moments.
Astana: 1-0 against a crap team via an individual skill from Greenwood in the last 20 minutes or so.
League Cup game : 1-1 against a League One side that is sitting 18th in the table! The goal was another individual skill in the last 20 minutes and we conceded again, just won by pens.
Arsenal: 1-1, our goal was another individual skill + deflection.
How is that not a struggling? Most of our goals are coming via ways that say the team is very poorly coached in the attack. We can't build up a good team play goal, rather waiting for individual skills and pens and we can't manage more than a goal in a game even against trash teams.
Regarding last line, well no. Look at Chelsea. They have loads of problems since summer, transfer ban, losing their best player, a rookie manager and are just ahead of us by 2 points by the atmosphere around them is far more positive than us, because they have been playing a far better football, integrated youth in the team like Mason and Abraham and it's obvious their defense is what costing them. When you watch Chelsea you get the idea that once they improve their defense and maybe get one big star in the attack they will be alright and that they are on the right track. I don't see how you get the same watching United.
I don't want to keep, but I don't want to sack until the right man is available, so I don't really know what to vote for.
It's a pain, too, because I want to see the results!
Maybe there should be a "sack when Pochettino gets the sack" option?
It's a pain, too, because I want to see the results!
Maybe there should be a "sack when Pochettino gets the sack" option?
How many years? I missed it.
If Ole doesn't prove himself worthy, then naturally he should be sacked. But he deserves 2 more windows, starting in January then next Summer.
Then give him until Christmas next year to see if there is a big improvement. If this doesn't happen, then let him go and bring in someone else.
He deserves this at least.
Then give him until Christmas next year to see if there is a big improvement. If this doesn't happen, then let him go and bring in someone else.
He deserves this at least.
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Please explain how did Ole finish 3rd overall last season since being appointed then or how did Jose finish 2nd. Unless you are saying after spending world record fee for a CB and spending fortune on a RB we are left with a worse squad in which case what does it say about the manager?
But why? Moyes didn't deserve it and he had a better pedigree. If the football was at least at little bit good I would understand but it isn't.
30 years
Moyes took over a team that had won the Premiership by 11 points. Yes some players were getting on but he at least had a good side.
Ole took over with one of the worst squads. He lost Herrera, Fellaini, Lukaku and Sanchez, without any being replaced. He was promised replacements for Herrera and Lukaku but never got them. Lets just see what happens if these 2 are replaced in January.
We have to set our "top team" complex aside, be a little less enraged and think this through. Even if we got ourselves the best manager in the world, he will probably do better. But no manager is going to significantly make a big difference with the lack of depth we have got in the squad. If we are going to get a new manager, let's not set them up for failure. Let Ole make the best out of the squad he chose. Even if we are going to get a new manager, let's do that when there is actually some possibility for the new man to be able to instantly change the squad and bring the profile of players he wants. Once fans lose their faith in a player/manager there is generally no way back.
In the 2015/16 season we scored 49!!! goals in the league placing 5th, only Stoke scored fewer among the top 11 teams.
LVG's possession-style was a lot less direct, linebreaking and with even lower risk than Pep's. Under LVG's regime we didn't take any counters, at all. None!
Not if you get the formula one driver as a jockey mid race.
How difficult is it to instruct players to do that? Requires no skill but only obedience to a plan. Makes one think that there is no plan or coaching in the first place.
Moyes got A team that ran away with the premiership by 11 points . Ole was promised replacements for Herera and Lukaku but didn't get them. Anyone can see that these are the 2 areas we are lacking in. ffs.
Our football was dire in 2013. It was Rvp bailing us out and the old guard on its last legs. Moyes was never the right manager for us but it was a squad in need of a massive overhaul.
It was in need of an overhaul, yes, but it was still a squad any competent manager should've been getting top four football with. Our football wasn't great in 12-13 at times but we were still largely dominant domestically and scoring for fun.
You can be absolutely sure of the posters who support Ole despite this shitshow going on for more than 6 months and will do even if he gets this team relegated, won't be even half as supportive with a new manager, like say Allegri, even if he's miles better than him which is pure hypocrisy & idiocy. They won't make stupid excuses for him they do for Ole and will moan at every opportunity to "justify" Ole even if he was way out of his depth. They won't be willing to give him time and their "top red" approach will suddenly dissappear. We saw this with Van Gaal after a clown like Moyes and will see it with a new manager after Ole.
Reality is most people have their favourites and they'll twist and turn the facts to suit their agenda even if they know deep inside it's not the truth. Ole's not the man to take this club forward and also his staff are clueless as him. The sooner we get rid of this amateur management team and get competent personnel the better for the club.
Reality is most people have their favourites and they'll twist and turn the facts to suit their agenda even if they know deep inside it's not the truth. Ole's not the man to take this club forward and also his staff are clueless as him. The sooner we get rid of this amateur management team and get competent personnel the better for the club.
I'm not 'shitting on them', genuinely.
I just believe that most Utd fans love Man Utd more than Roy Keane does... probably by quite a bit. Keane's relationship with Utd is a very complex one.
I've sat there mate and watched them all defend Moyes and read from the same sheet until his sacking, you've seen it too. This will go the exact same way.
You're telling me that after a match that ensured our worst PL start for 30 years (THIRTY YEARS), that the natural direction of conversation from club insider Schmeichel, was to immediately start putting the boot in to a midfielder coming back from injury and being played out of position...?
And to not even mention that it's our worse start for 30 years...?
They're following the script, and they're also following the old-boys network code.
Man Utd is in a really, really dangerous position right now - there's an anti-football overlord accountant sat in the box seat for 6 years, who is making literal comedy decisions that a Liverpool fan would choose to make about Utd if they were given the opportunity to.
There's a failing manager from the fecking Norwegian league sat in the coach's position, who the fans all Love too much to be truly honest about.
And fans are turning to failed managerial Legends of yesteryear for direction, but these guys are now simply paid pundits, and nothing more...
G.Nev
Keane
Giggs (when working for Sky/BT)
P.Nev
Schmeichel
Scholes
These guys are simply paid pundits now. And they're also, in many cases, failed coaches - Keane is a failed manager, G.Nev, P.Nev (in mens footy), Scholes - all failed coaches.
And more importantly - they're all close, long term friends with the failing coach at Utd right now!
They also ALL follow the exact same song sheet - doesn't that seem odd to you?
I mean, on here, fans are fairly evenly split as to whether OGS even deserves to stay as manager - yet all those close friends of OGS who 'love the club' so much, all sing from the exact same sheet.
Yet, Jamie fecking Carragher, a Liverpool legend, is gonna stand up and state that he believes Ole isn't the right man for this job... I wonder who'll end up being right?
These guys don't love Utd more than me or you mate. They are more important to the history of the club, of course, but they do not love Utd more than the fans.
They have their own careers, and they are all clearly biased in favour of their own mates rather than what's truly best for the club.
There are two big problems with these debates round these parts and on other social media outlets.
The first problem is the Ole in crowd, who (most often than not) are very quick to judge that the other side are plastic fans who haven't a clue on the United DNA, whatever that is, and on how to properly support the club. The second problem is the Ole out crowd, who at times fail to identify that the Glazers are the number one reason why we're here in the first place and are also quick to judge the other side as being 'deluded fanboys' and whatnot.
Truth is, both sides of the spectrum want the best for our club. The Ole out crowd are as much United fans as those who are high on the top red league table, but the Ole in crowd are not the 'fanboys' that the Ole out crowd often make them out to be. As to whether sack or keep Ole: the answer is also somewhere in the middle. Whilst the club didn't back him enough in the summer, he has shown sweet FA to this very minute that indicates he's a manager capable of managing a club with very high expectations and ambitions like us.
A bit of perspective, people. That's all.
The first problem is the Ole in crowd, who (most often than not) are very quick to judge that the other side are plastic fans who haven't a clue on the United DNA, whatever that is, and on how to properly support the club. The second problem is the Ole out crowd, who at times fail to identify that the Glazers are the number one reason why we're here in the first place and are also quick to judge the other side as being 'deluded fanboys' and whatnot.
Truth is, both sides of the spectrum want the best for our club. The Ole out crowd are as much United fans as those who are high on the top red league table, but the Ole in crowd are not the 'fanboys' that the Ole out crowd often make them out to be. As to whether sack or keep Ole: the answer is also somewhere in the middle. Whilst the club didn't back him enough in the summer, he has shown sweet FA to this very minute that indicates he's a manager capable of managing a club with very high expectations and ambitions like us.
A bit of perspective, people. That's all.
I wouldn’t bother, the stats tell half the story, my eyes tell the other half. The idea that Peps teams play as defensive or negatively as LVGs is laughable. One plays to win; the other plays to avoid defeat
In order to steer the debate away from wider issues surrounding Woodward and the Glazer ownership, maybe the question should be “Do you think Ole is good enough to be managing Manchester United?”. I find it hard to believe that a majority of our fanbase genuinely believe the answer to that question is “yes”.
Bloody hell, that's almost like three decades, three decades!
keep, it's the players that need sackin
Let's give him two years and we'll find out.
You've championed Allegri, but even the most basic questions about his philosophy or tactics you couldn't answer.
You mention that that he won 4 titles in a row like sprinkling some rare piece of wisdom, when you probably gleaned that from wiki. The obvious retort to his success with Juve is that in Italy would have won the scudetti regardless of Allegri, just like PSG would have won Ligue 1 in france regardless of Tuchel, Unay Emery, Laurent Blanc or Ancelotti, or just like Bayern would have won Buli in Germany regardless of Kovac, Heynckes, Ancelotti or Guardiola. Those are well oiled teams operating in one-team leagues.
Your points:
He can get his teams to score more than 1 goal a game and not shit the bed when they concede a goal. Doesnt get rid of attacking players without finding adequate replacements.
Actually Juve shit the bed quite a few times last year when they conceded a goal (vs Inter, Ajax, Atalanta, Genoa, Roma, Samp to name a few). His game plan reverted to give it to Ronaldo, he'll fix it. Juve's midfield was disastrous and he made their most talented attacking player Dybala feel like surplus. Juve's midfield is full of bruisers (matuidi, emre can, khedira) and little guile (pjanic) and he conceded the middle of the park way too many times to inferior teams. Just refer back to Inter, Ajax, Atalanta, Genoa, Roma, Samp to name a few.
Oh and by the way, he got rid of Andrea Pirlo when he was managing AC Milan in order to field Gattuso - Ambrosini - Flamini week in week out. Great job Max, you just handed Juventus and Conte 3 titles in a row!
Good relationship with the board - not really, if it was he'd still be the coach of Juve and Agnelli wouldn't have to had pay Chelsea to get ahold of Sarri.
He sets up his team to win - he doesn't, more often that not he sets up not to lose. Doesn't play expansive football and he's quite dull. He got criticized in Italy for being too defensive. This is a country in love with defense, and catenaccio and closing down, so let that sink in for a moment.
Does not throw his toys out of the pram ala Mourinho - he does, and he had many meltdowns last year. Just Google Allegri/Adani (but then again you don't speak Italian, so you'll probably have no clue what was said).
Any other nuggets, please feel free to contribute.
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Not many PL clubs give their manager a free pass for two years, even those with some meaningful achievements on their CV. I haven’t voted to sack him yet but he has to earn a second year on the basis of real metrics (not “nice guy, knows the club” type stuff).
If we're still in 10th place in December we really have no choice but to sack Ole. It's one thing for us to be a 5-6th place club while we rebuild the squad, but quite another to be in the bottom half of the table. All clubs, except the current Liverpool and City, go through bad patches (as we often did under SAF, but not quite like this) so a bit of patience is warranted. But if we can't take maximum points from Newcastle, Norwich, Bournemouth, Brighton Sheffield as well as take at least 4 points from our two fixtures against Partizan club management need to start taking the fact that Allegri is learning English very seriously.
Question...
let’s say we have a better squad, maybe even Liverpool’s squad, do you think ole is the man to challenge for titles? Or does everyone agree, that he’s not good enough but the people want him to stay, to stabilize the team then make way for a better manager?
let’s say we have a better squad, maybe even Liverpool’s squad, do you think ole is the man to challenge for titles? Or does everyone agree, that he’s not good enough but the people want him to stay, to stabilize the team then make way for a better manager?
The latter is where I'm at anyway.
I think Solskjaer will inevitably fail here because he simply isn't good enough and if/when the right manager is available (someone young, progressive and with a record to suggest they could be a success here) then I'd happily make the switch. Ideally coupled with structural changes at the club.
However, that mystery manager doesn't seem to be available right now. In which case I'd prefer to keep Solskjaer for now rather than bring in the wrong manager or a caretaker manager. At the very least Solskjaer's admittedly limited activity in the transfer market suggests he might leave the squad in better shape than when he took over.
Regardless of who the manager is, expensive flops on big money will have to be sold and better quality players brought in. Doing so will take time and will inevitably see relatively mediocre results during that transition. If we trust Solskjaer to at least do some of that work even as he's failing here then life becomes a lot easier for the next manager we appoint.
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