We should wait until summer if we can get any of Klopp/Guardiola/Conte, chances of which are next to none. Else reboot now. Every game is a potential 3 points. Get Allegri or Poch in and pray for a bounce which takes us into top four.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
- Start date
- Status
How is rational argument that our defence is one of the best considering it is the worst in the league defending set pieces? You only pick one category(defending from open play) and decide it's 2nd best in the league?
Defending from set pieces is one of the major categories for assessing the overall defensive state of any team in the league. Weak teams park the bus and use low block to counter us and capitalize on set pieces it's part of their strategy and plain obvious part of Burnley strategy last night.
As I said, both defences we took players from - Leicester and Palace are posting better numbers than us. Sheffield coming form the Championship are posting better numbers than us, yet you decide to pick one category(hugely subjective) to praise our defence being 2nd best in the league?
Anyone who thinks we should let him finish the season is being as silly as anyone who wants to keep him. Top four is still a very realistic target given the inconsistencies of our rivals and a new manager bounce could easily propel us into it. If that manager then has CL football next season we're in a much stronger position for recruitment in the summer too.
I still can't over how bad the performance was yesterday. The sort of result and performance managers don't come back from. It's as bad as its been since SAF retired.
I went with the first option, I wish Ole was showing signs that he should remain in charge till the summer, but he's not. Obviously the squad is dreadful, but I think a manager with more ability could still get a bit more out of this group than someone who is way out of his depth at this level.
The squad got worse because of his decisions. It's all well and good planning for the long term but to get to that you have to be competent in the short term, even if that means signing players or keeping players as stop gaps.
What Ole did this season so tantamount to negligence. To go into a 50 game season with a squad as anaemic as ours is unforgivable. People can harp on about the board not giving him all the resources he needed but the fact is he sanctioned the spending of 130m on two defenders that haven't improved our defence while offloading experienced players.
Your prodigal stars aside not many youngsters will thrive or even improve in these conditions. We have no leaders, no players to drag the youngsters through and teach them the basics. You can see this on matchday as every one of our players go into their shells when the plan is not working.
The only teams that have less clean sheets in the league than us are Spurs and Norwich with 3. We currently have 4.
Well ... as promised, I am very surprised!
Edit: I read that completely the wrong way!! Haha. No. I'm not even remotely surprised.
Well it was easier to list the teams that are worse than us in that department than the other way around.
You don't need a top player in every position to beat the vast majority of teams in this league consistently because in truth they're poor.
Actually go back and look at our team lineups from past seasons and you'll see worse lineups by far. It's about building a functioning system not just relying on top players to carry you.
We're 4pts above a 14th placed Newcastle ffs.
I didnt decide anything, it is a fact that we have conceded the 2nd least from open play only behind Liverpool. I am not saying we are the 2nd best at defending in general. That open play stat is all the more impressive given how unreliable De Gea has been of late. If you can call that a "hugely subjective" stat, then I honestly dont know what else to say.
Whilst set pieces are undoubtedly important, I would say that it takes more individual skill to keep out a team for 90 minutes during open play than it does to get some tall players and head the ball far away. Again, both are important, which is why I think our defence still needs work. But I would argue that our defenders just need to be drilled better at set pieces rather than needing to recruit more personnel like we do in other areas of the pitch.
Ive been on the fence with Ole mainly due to loving the guy as our player. However if you remove emotion and base it purely on results, then on results he would have been fired at every other club. His win rate since appointment as full time manager is shocking. the problem is unless we can recruit at least 2 quality players in this window and get Rashford pogba and MCT back i dont think a new manager has a cat in hells chance of turning things around.
however they can start planning for next season.
however they can start planning for next season.
I’d vote for: sack - interim - new manager in the summer
Just to comment on this building for the long term impacting short term idea.
He went out and signed 2 of the leagues best defenders last season, hardly something that needs long term to bare fruit. Williams has come in yeah but only because he's playing better than his older colleague so not a short term pain long term gain either.
Is this idea of long term thinking entirely based on Lukaku and Herrera going?
So you pin it all on De Gea for sucking at set pieces?
Who cares if we're 2nd from open play, the totals are important.
Improving from open play and regressing from set pieces to ultimately being as shit as before, despite pouring 130m in, makes no difference in real world.
And no it's not "individual skill", many teams decide to play like that against us - concede possession and capitalize through set pieces because it's working.
It won't work against Liverpool for example because they will break you down and are not impotent like us in attack.
A thousand times this. In addition it gives the new manager time with the squad to make assessments on the players.
No, not entirely based on that. It's based on his promotion of youth. Perhaps he signed 2 of the league's best defenders .. but WB is very young. So will be inconsistent. James is very young, a Champ player, very inconsistent.
Letting Lukaku go, with none of our other forwards > 24 etc. He's clearly trying to build a young team that can grow together.
It is a hugely subjective stat. At the end of the day, goals against, matters. How you concede them, does not, ultimately. You're either good at defending, or you're not. We're not. No matter how you try and spin it.
Honestly, this reeks of American stats. I don't follow baseball, but do you ever see some of the stats they come up with? They make stuff up to try and prove their point. "He's the best between innings 3 and 5 under lights".
Would ideally want him gone ASAP but voted option 2, reason being I'd like us to have all options available to us when picking the next manager rather than being forced to pick from Poch and Allegri only.
The only problem with an interim manager is the new manager bounce. Players will suddenly start giving 200% effort and performances/results will improve.
We have an idiot like Woodward in charge who will see this as progress and give him the job permanently. Wait until the end of the season and replace him with an established manager.
We have an idiot like Woodward in charge who will see this as progress and give him the job permanently. Wait until the end of the season and replace him with an established manager.
Who would you suggest? Pochettino and Allegri are ruled out as options as they reportedly do not want to take over any club mid-season and Pochettino would suffer financial consequences, should he join another English club before the summer.
So, excluding those two, who would you suggest we appoint right now?
LvG in his first season signed:
Blind 24 at the time.
Shaw 19.
Herrera 24/25.
Rojo 24.
TFM 17 or something.
Di Maria 25/26.
Hardly any different in terms of profile.
Jose in his first season:
Bailly - 22
Pogba - 23
Mkhi - 27
Ibra - as a stop gap.
Every manager before him signed young players with potential that can grow together and most of them were younger than 25.
But it's a fact. Based on the stats, our team is the 2nd best defending from open play. That doesn't change the fact that we're awful at set-pieces, but it is not a subjective fact. It's an objective fact and an observation, based on that objective fact. The worst part is that 6 or 7 of those 11 goals from open play against us, is due to personal errors (DDG mistakes, Jones falling over in that duel, Maguire+Lindelöf communication at the start of the season, and so on).
The good thing is that defending for set-pieces is considered the easiest thing to fix. The bad thing is that after 13 months in the club, Ole hasn't managed to fix this. It would probably be an instant improvement just by replacing DDG with Dean Henderson.
Our biggest problem until December, was creating chances. Now it is to convert the chances we create. Martial doesn't look like he's consistent enough to be our main man. Pereira won't be good enough. I have no faith in him rising to be anything more than a fringe player. Every time he got the ball yesterday, he took way too many touches or made the wrong pass. He's not good enough, and he would struggle to get playtime in Norwich.
He's been unfortunate with injuries and I don't think sacking him is the answer for the long term health of the club.
But top 4 is still a possiblity and it's become obvious that with this set of players, Ole won't achieve it. We need to gamble on someone who will (as its become obvious that we aren't brining in players this month).
Poch and Allergri would likely provide the new manager bounce we need, but I don't think they're the right options going into next season.
But sacking him, and still missing out on top 4 or playing poorly would be the worst situation. At that point it would be clearly obvious that we're an absolute mess of a club and any sensible players should stay well clear. No amount of PR could mask that.
At least now we can spin the narrative of a long term plan, trusting youth, etc.
At this point everything is a gamble.
But top 4 is still a possiblity and it's become obvious that with this set of players, Ole won't achieve it. We need to gamble on someone who will (as its become obvious that we aren't brining in players this month).
Poch and Allergri would likely provide the new manager bounce we need, but I don't think they're the right options going into next season.
But sacking him, and still missing out on top 4 or playing poorly would be the worst situation. At that point it would be clearly obvious that we're an absolute mess of a club and any sensible players should stay well clear. No amount of PR could mask that.
At least now we can spin the narrative of a long term plan, trusting youth, etc.
At this point everything is a gamble.
New poll and I have changed to sack Ole. I was hoping the rebuilding plan, removing the dead wood and promoting selected young players, would be the best course of action and that Ole should be given time to do it. I weighed this against the blood sucking owners and the delusional board thinking these are making Ole’s job that much harder. But I think that now he is buckling under the pressure and to use the word ‘fantastic’ in reference to our performance last night is showing a man under pressure. It is becoming obvious that he is unable to work out what to do next and this indecision is radiating down through the team. Like the manager, last night the team had no idea how to proceed to go on and win the game. It was said earlier, ‘if Shaw and Lingard is the answer’ what was the question?
Again, many teams set up like that against us because they don't have the capacity to score from open play against better players. And against us is working.
If you are 2nd in one defensive category and 20th in another you are still average at it and probably regressed all things considered (130m poured in).
And how it is easier to fix and then you say for 13 months he hasn't fixed it and it's even getting worse?
Our biggest problem since March is having an incompetent manager. You can dilly-dally here and there and put a positive spin in certain areas, but the fact remains he's League One standard and no time or Woodward getting world class players in will help a soon to be 47 years old manager become a world beater.
New manager bounce is the only thing which could possibly get us 4th place. Without CL you can forget about getting any top players in the summer. The club will lose appeal further. Plus if the bounce comes from Poch or Allegri then no harm in appointing them on a permanent basis.
I didn't realize it was my job to appoint the manager.
Even an interim manager would give us that bounce. Look at even our first two months under Ole, who proved to be arguably the worst manager in the PL.
The club would simply need to not shoot themselves in the foot again by making that interim manager permanent, and make sure to get Poch in the summer
It won't happen though, Ole is clearly here til the end of the season, at a minimum.
New manager now. We might have an outside chance of top 4 if a new manager bounce took effect and the players started playing as a team. At the very least, he would have a head start, being able to assess the players before the summer transfer window. Scraping top 4 would attract decent players who want Champions League football.
It just feels like a massive mountain to climb now and I don't know what manager could work/deal/accommodate/spar/outsmart/stand up to our feckless board without being pulverized or throwing a hissy fit. Basically a Fergie v.2.0.0!
Sorry Ole, it's just too insipid now, a slough of despond.
It just feels like a massive mountain to climb now and I don't know what manager could work/deal/accommodate/spar/outsmart/stand up to our feckless board without being pulverized or throwing a hissy fit. Basically a Fergie v.2.0.0!
Sorry Ole, it's just too insipid now, a slough of despond.
I was hoping against hope that there will be rumours of him getting the sack in an emergency meeting today but alas. I would even settle for any blue tick twitter Ole imminent sacking rumour.
Give the job to Lingard and then fire him in Summer.
We can sack him today but like I've always said if doesn't matter who we appoint this board are a disgrace.
I firmly believe there is no rebuild if there was with one week of the January window to go we wouldn't be sat with no new signings .
I sat at OT looking around the pitch last night and thought who would get into our 99 side our 08 side and the answer is No1. At the moment no 1 would and with the huge sums of money spent that is incompetence of the highest levels .
We are fecked until Ed ducks
I firmly believe there is no rebuild if there was with one week of the January window to go we wouldn't be sat with no new signings .
I sat at OT looking around the pitch last night and thought who would get into our 99 side our 08 side and the answer is No1. At the moment no 1 would and with the huge sums of money spent that is incompetence of the highest levels .
We are fecked until Ed ducks
By now I think Ole has made it clear, that he does not have the tactical ability required to the our manager, so eventually he should be let go. The timing should only depend on, when we have lined up a viable, long-term replacement. If that is possible during this current season then so be it, however it is probably more realistic that it will happen in the summer.
It is probably also more fair for a new manager to have a transfer window and summer period to work with the squad, rather than inheriting this mess of a situation.
It is probably also more fair for a new manager to have a transfer window and summer period to work with the squad, rather than inheriting this mess of a situation.
I voted for second option, because I want a new manager to start from ground zero, but then I have changed it to sack him now, because I just cant stand him anymore and his accent fake as his promises.
We still have chance to make it to top4, which is huge reason for at least some new impulse, like Olé was after NegativeOne. New manager wont be under pressure with injuries and overall season like this one, so he can try some options, try some systems, try some players from academy or he can just give some senior players last chance to prove themselves, so he can be more prepared for summer trasnfer window which will be very important for our future. Olé is not good enough to attract best players out there and after season like this one, everyone will think twice before coming in, specially if some other decent teams would be intersted.
We still have chance to make it to top4, which is huge reason for at least some new impulse, like Olé was after NegativeOne. New manager wont be under pressure with injuries and overall season like this one, so he can try some options, try some systems, try some players from academy or he can just give some senior players last chance to prove themselves, so he can be more prepared for summer trasnfer window which will be very important for our future. Olé is not good enough to attract best players out there and after season like this one, everyone will think twice before coming in, specially if some other decent teams would be intersted.
Carrick/Phelan would be the most likely candidates for any interim role. I don't expect much of a bounce from them.
Top 4 isn't happening with Rashford out of the side. The season is a write off; we'll limp through with Ole and fire him in May.
Klopps first full season at Liverpool
Net spend - minus 5m
Position - 4th
Second season
Net spend - minus 24m
Position - 4th, champions league runner ups
Third season
Net spend - 127m
Position - 2nd, champions league winners
We all know how the 4th season has been without any signings.
These stats is for those that compare Ole to Klopp. These stats is for those that think the 150m spent on players and the 70m net spend is not enough to make us challenge for top 4. These stats is for those that think no manager can do well with the board we have since they won't back the manager with adequate funds. These stats is for those that think Ole spent the budget wisely. These stats us for those that think our rebuild us going at it should be and there is significant progress.
Net spend - minus 5m
Position - 4th
Second season
Net spend - minus 24m
Position - 4th, champions league runner ups
Third season
Net spend - 127m
Position - 2nd, champions league winners
We all know how the 4th season has been without any signings.
These stats is for those that compare Ole to Klopp. These stats is for those that think the 150m spent on players and the 70m net spend is not enough to make us challenge for top 4. These stats is for those that think no manager can do well with the board we have since they won't back the manager with adequate funds. These stats is for those that think Ole spent the budget wisely. These stats us for those that think our rebuild us going at it should be and there is significant progress.
The guy is too nice for the job. Don't see him turning this around.
Ole is doing an adequate job. United's problem is the paper-thin and young squad, and it's evidently a decision to risk punting on this season to build for the future
The issue is, Ole is doing an adequate job. He's not shown anything that makes you think he might do better than that. So the question is, is an adequate manager good enough for United?
The issue is, Ole is doing an adequate job. He's not shown anything that makes you think he might do better than that. So the question is, is an adequate manager good enough for United?
He’s as good as gone, it’s untenable for him to be here next season (5th flatters is and we won’t finish that high). Club will already be talking with Poch, if he wants job for next season that deal will be done just like it was with Jose.
There isnt another club in the Premier League would hire him. Never mind one of our so called rivals.
- Status