We're getting better. We just need to get rid of the flat performances that have resulted in needless points being thrown away in draws. An interesting stat is that despite our apparent train smash of a season there are only three teams that have lost fewer games than us - Liverpool, Leicester and Wolves.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
- Start date
- Status
Missed the game, so can't really comment on the performance and tactics, but credit where it's due. a win away from home at the Etihad is no easy feat.
Ole deserves credit for the last two victories, no doubt about it
Regardless if you're Ole out he's definitely earned himself time and another transfer window to be judged.
Ole deserves credit for the last two victories, no doubt about it
Regardless if you're Ole out he's definitely earned himself time and another transfer window to be judged.
There’s literally one post there saying “sadly I can see us winning this” from a newb with 336 posts.
Every single other post is hoping we win.
So 0.0000001% of fans is made out as though it’s a popular view, it aint, 99.9999% of fans want us to win every game regardless of their thoughts on the manager.
I am still Ole out. However at this point he deserves till the end of the season to prove himself + full financial support in January
After the Newcastle game in October, I felt that Ole was done here. There were no patterns in attack, the high press was uncoordinated, we were terrible at both attacking and defending set pieces, players didn't seem like they'd improved individually, we were still a team lesser than the sum of the parts, Ole's subs were late and ineffective, we were a one-trick pony with a lone counter-attacking card up our sleeve, the lineups showed too much faith in under-performing players, and so on. Ole as an employee seemed like always-sunny, low-maintenance yes-man who carries a large bag of brownie points with United fans. But Ole the manager, I felt, was inadequate for the requirements of this job, and so it seemed like the owners were backing the wrong horse.
However, a string of performances since then have surprised me (and most of us here). The Liverpool draw, the dismantling of Norwich in style with Martial's return, beating Chelsea in the League Cup with that Rashford wonder goal, the Partizan and Brighton wins - and of course this week with the remarkable victories against a far stronger Mourinho's Spurs and Pep's City. We didn't just edge these games, we should have won both by a significant margin. We did this without a top forward to bring off the bench for late impact and without Pogba. That's absolutely brilliant, and reminded me of the PSG win and why Ole got the job in the first place. Players have individually improved under Ole - Fred, Rashford and Martial are clear examples. We've shown resilience to hang on to leads, defending well as a unit, we've pressed well of late and Ole has shown signs of adapting beyond favourites - Pereira dropped, Williams at left back, etc. Most importantly, the attitude of the team seems so upbeat, a stark contrast to the last days of LVG or Jose.
I won't say that Ole will bring back the good old days, we're a long way off the levels of quality and consistency that say Liverpool or City usually demonstrated over the last couple of seasons. We have a lot of weaknesses, some of which I believe will be laid bare the next time we encounter a team sitting deep or have to defend a well taken set piece. But I do think Ole deserves more time and more backing in the transfer market. He's the best bet we've had in years of building something for the long term, and I think it's time Woodward gave him the consistent backing he deserves off these games where we played scintillating, fearless football, where every player played for each other and the manager, and where the results are so promising.
I think the answer to the question 'What can Ole do with a well backed team, built over a couple of years under his supervision, playing the way he wants them to?' is promising enough to deserve time, money and support. While I'm skeptical of our board's competence in procuring Ole's transfer targets, I think he's the best chance we have.
Changing my vote back to Keep, and it would take a long time for me to change my mind again.
However, a string of performances since then have surprised me (and most of us here). The Liverpool draw, the dismantling of Norwich in style with Martial's return, beating Chelsea in the League Cup with that Rashford wonder goal, the Partizan and Brighton wins - and of course this week with the remarkable victories against a far stronger Mourinho's Spurs and Pep's City. We didn't just edge these games, we should have won both by a significant margin. We did this without a top forward to bring off the bench for late impact and without Pogba. That's absolutely brilliant, and reminded me of the PSG win and why Ole got the job in the first place. Players have individually improved under Ole - Fred, Rashford and Martial are clear examples. We've shown resilience to hang on to leads, defending well as a unit, we've pressed well of late and Ole has shown signs of adapting beyond favourites - Pereira dropped, Williams at left back, etc. Most importantly, the attitude of the team seems so upbeat, a stark contrast to the last days of LVG or Jose.
I won't say that Ole will bring back the good old days, we're a long way off the levels of quality and consistency that say Liverpool or City usually demonstrated over the last couple of seasons. We have a lot of weaknesses, some of which I believe will be laid bare the next time we encounter a team sitting deep or have to defend a well taken set piece. But I do think Ole deserves more time and more backing in the transfer market. He's the best bet we've had in years of building something for the long term, and I think it's time Woodward gave him the consistent backing he deserves off these games where we played scintillating, fearless football, where every player played for each other and the manager, and where the results are so promising.
I think the answer to the question 'What can Ole do with a well backed team, built over a couple of years under his supervision, playing the way he wants them to?' is promising enough to deserve time, money and support. While I'm skeptical of our board's competence in procuring Ole's transfer targets, I think he's the best chance we have.
Changing my vote back to Keep, and it would take a long time for me to change my mind again.
I thought the tactics were bang on, hit City hard and fast, build a lead and then defend it for your life. They are perfect tactics against a Guardiola side, only some poor finishing from us prevented the game being sewn up by half time.
Ole, like all managers should, has, as you say, earned himself time and a decent Christmas should get him a transfer window where suddenly we could be much more attractive again for incoming players.
As expected the knee jerkers out in full force using two most recent matches and forgetting everything else.
When was the last time you had a United manager who came out openly and said, "We know what the squad will look like NEXT SUMMER."
He has a clear vision for the club. Ed Woodward seems to back him. His players love him - read the article that came out about how the squad called the upper management and told them to keep the manager. Finally, Ole knows what we are and who we are.
This is a gamble worth taking. If it doesn't work, at least we can say that we committed to an idea and saw it play out.
Ole has bought 3 players as United manager. All 3 have been significant improvements in making Manchester United a better team. January will say a lot on how the organisation is working with Ole. I will wait for January and see if what he's saying is really true or some faf to keep his job.
He has a clear vision for the club. Ed Woodward seems to back him. His players love him - read the article that came out about how the squad called the upper management and told them to keep the manager. Finally, Ole knows what we are and who we are.
This is a gamble worth taking. If it doesn't work, at least we can say that we committed to an idea and saw it play out.
Ole has bought 3 players as United manager. All 3 have been significant improvements in making Manchester United a better team. January will say a lot on how the organisation is working with Ole. I will wait for January and see if what he's saying is really true or some faf to keep his job.
There are two more on that page alone. They are the last two posts on the page.
These people exist whether you want to believe it or not and no one said it was a popular view.
I find this whole "Anyone can hit teams on the break" stuff pretty fecking stupid to be honest. "Oh no, we're becoming Wolves"
If people can't see huge positives in those two games I don't know what to say. Yes, we had to counter attack a bit against City. As any team in the world would. But they were rock solid, well drilled, calm and purposeful in possession, lethal going forward and they fought like dogs. Even the fitness was impressive having a day less recovery before each game and still outworking both teams. When City came at them in the second half they never panicked and just stuck to their plan. To see such a young side playing with such fire and maturity is hugely exciting. Even Roy fecking Keane was clearly delighted with the City performance. I've never seen him praise us before.
Ole has managed to sort out the right wing with James. He's got Rashford and Martial firing in their best positions. He's somehow got Fred looking like a quality midfielder. The defense were rock solid. Maguire organising and leading. AWB pocketing Sterling, De Bryne and basically everyone who came near him. Yet there's threads on here saying its a myth that James, AWB and Maguire were good signings.
As I've said elsewhere Klopp, Pep and Poch had to basically change their whole squads to get their teams to the current level. Klopp for example has sold 17 senior players and bought 15 since taking over. He finished 8th in the first season. Ole has signed 3 players. 3!!! We have a very young squad. We have absolutely no backup for midfield or up front. Nothing.
When Scotty was injured Pereira had to play as a holding midfielder and were were completely overrun in midfield causing to draw with SU and Villa. We just didn't have a replacement defensive midfielder to give us the solidity required in the PL. Both teams ran through us and we conceded 5 goals over the 2 games.
But those two games aside we've been on an excellent run of form. Fred and McTominay have won 6 of their last 7 together. We've gone from a team who doesn't create chances to a team scoring at will. Had Scott not got injured and we'd won those 2 we'd have gone from 15th up to a point off 4th. That's excellent form. And we still have Pogba to come back.
It looks to me like we are a potentially couple of CMs and another striker away from being a very consistent side. We have a manager who consistently out thinks and beats the best coaches in the game and a hugely determined group of young players who would run through walls for him. There is clear improvements in our play as the season is going on. We're now scoring loads of goals after being the team "with no attacking patterns of play" a few weeks ago.
The fact that people don't want to even give him a chance to add to the 3 superb signings he's made so far and just sack him despite the obvious progress being made is frankly just mental. It's time to strap in, support Ole and see where that takes us. Get on board.
If people can't see huge positives in those two games I don't know what to say. Yes, we had to counter attack a bit against City. As any team in the world would. But they were rock solid, well drilled, calm and purposeful in possession, lethal going forward and they fought like dogs. Even the fitness was impressive having a day less recovery before each game and still outworking both teams. When City came at them in the second half they never panicked and just stuck to their plan. To see such a young side playing with such fire and maturity is hugely exciting. Even Roy fecking Keane was clearly delighted with the City performance. I've never seen him praise us before.
Ole has managed to sort out the right wing with James. He's got Rashford and Martial firing in their best positions. He's somehow got Fred looking like a quality midfielder. The defense were rock solid. Maguire organising and leading. AWB pocketing Sterling, De Bryne and basically everyone who came near him. Yet there's threads on here saying its a myth that James, AWB and Maguire were good signings.
As I've said elsewhere Klopp, Pep and Poch had to basically change their whole squads to get their teams to the current level. Klopp for example has sold 17 senior players and bought 15 since taking over. He finished 8th in the first season. Ole has signed 3 players. 3!!! We have a very young squad. We have absolutely no backup for midfield or up front. Nothing.
When Scotty was injured Pereira had to play as a holding midfielder and were were completely overrun in midfield causing to draw with SU and Villa. We just didn't have a replacement defensive midfielder to give us the solidity required in the PL. Both teams ran through us and we conceded 5 goals over the 2 games.
But those two games aside we've been on an excellent run of form. Fred and McTominay have won 6 of their last 7 together. We've gone from a team who doesn't create chances to a team scoring at will. Had Scott not got injured and we'd won those 2 we'd have gone from 15th up to a point off 4th. That's excellent form. And we still have Pogba to come back.
It looks to me like we are a potentially couple of CMs and another striker away from being a very consistent side. We have a manager who consistently out thinks and beats the best coaches in the game and a hugely determined group of young players who would run through walls for him. There is clear improvements in our play as the season is going on. We're now scoring loads of goals after being the team "with no attacking patterns of play" a few weeks ago.
The fact that people don't want to even give him a chance to add to the 3 superb signings he's made so far and just sack him despite the obvious progress being made is frankly just mental. It's time to strap in, support Ole and see where that takes us. Get on board.
No, they predict we’ll lose and say they hope Ole gets the sack due to that prediction.
But peeps like yourself want to change that narrative and make out they are saying ”I hope we lose so the manager gets sacked”.
Great post mate. Wholeheartedly agree. I get the scepticism from people and being aware of the danger of romanticisation when appointing a manager is actually smart, but I hope some fans will try to understand the perspective brought up in the post above.
We're allowed to be optimistic, and if we're on the right path then when a future manager comes he'll take over a squad in much better shape. If we fail in the transfer windows, or if Ed intends to use Ole as an excuse for not spending money and keeping the dross around then Ed being the bigger problem should be our main concern. Any manager who comes in will work under those conditions, and will fail. Realistically from what we're being told, our scouting is updated and with the committee etc. we should expect our transfers to happen a lot quicker. Expect higher quality recruitment. No last minute Di Marias, Bales, Falcao. No excuse for Ed if that doesn't happen now, because he has promised it.
Are people really saying that Steve? We’re possibly the best counter-attacking side in the league, but we’re shite against defenses that sit back.
That isn’t the same as saying ”hitting on the break is easy”, at all.
This is absolutely spot on. Ole had to clear out the prima donnas in the summer, and was left with a squad that we all knew would struggle to make the top 4. It's a savage rebuilding job that is based on acquiring players who are proud to wear the shirt. The club has been selective in the transfer market, and Ole has relied heavy on the enthusiasm of youth. We are one of the most ruthless counter attacking sides against teams who want to take us on in a football match, but against defensive compact sides we struggle with creativity due to a lack of quality in midfield. If Ole addresses this in the next few transfer windows we'll be back in the top 4 and close to challenging for the title again.
I think a lot of clubs are looking at us right now and thinking, this is a team everyone is going to have to watch in the next few years.
Going from the hoofing, slow 5 touch football we watched under Mourinho to possibly the best counter attacking side in the league by playing and trusting youth, in under a year is remarkable.
Not to forget before Mourinho too with Van Gaal as manager, we always struggled with slow tempo in our play. It's really been a huge problem since SAF left, and Ole is not getting the credit he deserves for doing these changes. Win or lose, It is not even a problem anymore. People must be blind or forget very quickly if they can't understand that what Ole has done in this department especially is huge for us. While a lot is far from perfect and little is promised due to his inexperience.. he is trying his best to do exactly what we want to see!
Bang on the button brother.
This last two games has been the best we've played since the initial boost Ole had when he came in.
Superb stuff. Need to follow it up against a lesser team or two now.
I felt the same yesterday as when watching Klopps early Liverpool. Where there was a real attacking threat but not quite the full pieces of the puzzle.
Another window or two like the last one and who knows how we'll look.
Biggest problem is having next to no quality beyond the first 11 or 12 players.
I'd love nothing more than Ole to be a success here, but I'm still on the fence.
2 great results doesn't paper over the cracks, not yet.
It's all well and good getting two very good results, but these teams played open football and allowed us to play counter attacking football, and we did it effectively. (The only negative is we didn't score more, which we deserved), but when it comes to teams that are happy to sit back, we struggle, and we need to figure this out.
The only reason we're so close to the top 4 is because everyone around us has been poor. This table could look so much worse right now, so I'm still on the fence.
2 great results doesn't paper over the cracks, not yet.
It's all well and good getting two very good results, but these teams played open football and allowed us to play counter attacking football, and we did it effectively. (The only negative is we didn't score more, which we deserved), but when it comes to teams that are happy to sit back, we struggle, and we need to figure this out.
The only reason we're so close to the top 4 is because everyone around us has been poor. This table could look so much worse right now, so I'm still on the fence.
So they hope their prediction comes true.
Keep splitting those hairs buddy.
Presumably fast counter attacking isn't coached either as I've been told on here that Ole can't coach and he's the worst manager in the league.
I dont think this is appropriate to discuss after a win. The people saying so dosen`t post after wins, they are only seen after a loss or draw. (Read Minoldo, Enigma etc..))
On a serious note. Both tactical and energy was close to perfection yesterday. Well done coaches and players
Yeah, now you’re putting words into their mouths, that’s just weird.
You can absolutely think that Ole will lose a game and if so hopefully get the sack, whilst simultaneously hoping he wins. Obviously.
That aint splitting hairs, it’s just how it is.
Because of this week. I think he earned the whole season to see what happens. Fingers cross he can succeed. Not expecting top 4 but united are close to chelsea now.
It’s not about the last few games. It’s more about the process. It’s been very clear that we are doing something right. Now we need to continue and invest in the right players to take us further.
That said, it was a unnecessary reply on my behalf on you changing your vote. I respect that everyone has an opinion. The main thing that I think everyone will agree on is that we all want the best for United.
Good read, this.
Knew this would happen. A couple of big wins and people forget the dross.
It doesn't take a good manager to get players up for a Derby or a big games against Spurs. It's the away to Bournemouth ect.. We need players up for. Tactics yesterday where spot on in the first 30 but Pep made a change and put an end to our raiding, like any good manager should have. Playing my pace men and a counter is how I would have approached the City game, I'm not a manager and got that right!
We can't be convinced over the last 2 games and forget the defeats to Newcastle ect..
Let's see how this poll looks on January 2nd
It doesn't take a good manager to get players up for a Derby or a big games against Spurs. It's the away to Bournemouth ect.. We need players up for. Tactics yesterday where spot on in the first 30 but Pep made a change and put an end to our raiding, like any good manager should have. Playing my pace men and a counter is how I would have approached the City game, I'm not a manager and got that right!
We can't be convinced over the last 2 games and forget the defeats to Newcastle ect..
Let's see how this poll looks on January 2nd
He’s done well these past two games. I am still sceptical as we’ve had plenty of false dawns this past 6 years. He’s proving he can do it against the best sides but it’s the lesser sides where it’s the problem.
It feels like every one of the best sides we defeat, we then lose or draw to two lesser sides... and with the ratio of the Premier League in relation to us being roughly 6 ‘best sides’ and 12-13 ‘lesser sides’, it feels all the more like that. So two thirds of our potential league tally rests on the lesser sides
People will say we need creative midfielders, clinical forwards and squad depth in order to put these lesser sides to the sword with their 10 men behind the ball tactics. I hope this is the case but it still baffles me what the hell was going on in the summer, such as why it took so long to get players over the line and why we didnt buy more players when we knew that Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez we’re going. We don’t know whether that means OGS overestimated the youth and players he already had, Woodward and the marketing posse are just shit slow at getting things done, whether a takeover is imminent and therefore we didn’t spend as much, some of those or all of the above.
Either way, we need to consider buying in January, preferably a midfielder... considering Matic is half way out the door and Pogba who is probably injured but he’s in no real hurry to get back playing for us because he’s half way out the door, and a weakness is creativity.
When we appointed OGS permanently, I felt we needed that DoF structure in the club to give him the best possible opportunity to succeed and if he didn’t work out, then finding a successor wouldn’t be as daunting as the club would work autonomously in the background.
It feels like every one of the best sides we defeat, we then lose or draw to two lesser sides... and with the ratio of the Premier League in relation to us being roughly 6 ‘best sides’ and 12-13 ‘lesser sides’, it feels all the more like that. So two thirds of our potential league tally rests on the lesser sides
People will say we need creative midfielders, clinical forwards and squad depth in order to put these lesser sides to the sword with their 10 men behind the ball tactics. I hope this is the case but it still baffles me what the hell was going on in the summer, such as why it took so long to get players over the line and why we didnt buy more players when we knew that Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez we’re going. We don’t know whether that means OGS overestimated the youth and players he already had, Woodward and the marketing posse are just shit slow at getting things done, whether a takeover is imminent and therefore we didn’t spend as much, some of those or all of the above.
Either way, we need to consider buying in January, preferably a midfielder... considering Matic is half way out the door and Pogba who is probably injured but he’s in no real hurry to get back playing for us because he’s half way out the door, and a weakness is creativity.
When we appointed OGS permanently, I felt we needed that DoF structure in the club to give him the best possible opportunity to succeed and if he didn’t work out, then finding a successor wouldn’t be as daunting as the club would work autonomously in the background.
Great post mate.
I'm in the "out" camp but these were two great performances mate. Even the "just shut down shop and hope to get something on the break" argument doesn't hold much merit. I was watching these games and it was the first time, since i don't know when, it felt like "nah, there's no way we're not winning this". It was a nice change to feel like that again.
I remain sceptical because the lows we have witnessed over the last 11 months have been staggering and, imho, they go beyond the threadbare squad, the injuries and Woodward. I still believe the evaluation of our own strengths by the manager fell off the mark and i also believe that we're still working on our plans without key members of the first team. Which has led to some dire performances and, subsequently, gave the impression that this squad would struggle even in the Championship.
But i agree with what Schmeichel argued yesterday, that Solskjaer has bought himself more time and the next step is to present a side that will go into each game not "hoping" that they can win it but "knowing" that they can win it. And this week has provided him with the platform to do just that. I'm anticipating the festive period and if it all pans out well, i wouldn't mind any "i told you so's" on the internet.
Fantastic post.
Two great wins but I still think he’s out of his depth. I get the feeling he’d work quite well as a first team coach or assistant manager.
I have a feeling that the caf has been infiltrated by impostors claiming to be United supporters. Any United fan couldn't be anything but delighted with how the lads dealt with the last two games. Both excellent performances.
On the fence now. I want to see if we can carry these last two performances into the games that we should be winning. If we can then great, it will give Ole some more time. If we don’t, then what’s the point?
2 very big wins, it's illigical to talk about sacking him at the moment. My opinion on him still needs time to change but let him take his chance for now and see how he will build on this.
The lineup and formation we used in both games wertr brilliant, by far our best so there's a good enough chance we might have turned this on.
The lineup and formation we used in both games wertr brilliant, by far our best so there's a good enough chance we might have turned this on.
Firstly I’m as happy anyone watching the game yesterday & Spurs. I’m happy for the club & Ole.
Howe this doesn’t mean he’s the man to lead us to success. You can’t gloss over the fact we are still 5 points off 4th (not a great target in any case for club of our size) & have had some of the most insipid uninspiring football I’ve seen here for man years- the West Ham game was woefully shocking.
You mention the lack of depth - why didn’t Ole see this as a potential problem start of the season? He was too reliant on youth & made a fatal error or clearing out those he deemed unnecessary before bringing in replacements and this has & will cost us big time.
I would say it’s ‘mental’ to think he’s the right man based off 2 performances rather than the season as a whole wouldn’t you say?
The way transfers worked at United was actually one of the first things he addressed publicly.
Typically, instead of complaining to the press, he chose to express a positive expectation towards the clubs ability to plan ahead. Since then, the recruitment system has been bolstered, his three signings has been spot on, and if he gets to bolster the squad in January that would mean he has been heard.
Sack him and get the guy who can bring in the famous Spurs winning-culture.
Absolutely BANG on the money!!!
I keep reading about our form and "we need to go on a run".. our form is better than many of our main rivals...that's a fact! Only Leicester and Liverpool have better form than us over the last 12 competitive matches (all competitions).
As your rightly say, poor Fred was left stranded in the SU & Villa games. Only so much one set of legs can do in the engine room and we dropped valuable points sadly. A fully fit Chelsea side struggled a few days later against Villa to retain their 2-1 lead and they crept over the line with a win.
As you say Ole has transferred us from being a hoof ball to Fellaini team that retained possession to a solid counter attacking side whilst trying to rebuild.
We are still exactly where we were before the two games in terms of knowledge. We already knew we are a great counter attacking team. We already knew we can beat top 6 sides. We knew our attacking players are great when given space. We knew our defense is decent. We know our fullbacks especially WB are brilliant defenders. We know Oles plan. Back 4. Two defensive midfielders. Hit on the break with devastating pace.
What did we learn that we didn't already know? Nothing. What we have gained is confidence and belief. Those players should now believe they can beat anyone. Now take that into the next set of games - Everton, Watford, Newcastle, Burnley and get maximum points otherwise the wins mean nothing.
Once we complete those games and get top points we can hopefully get a couple of players in January and Pogba back and take the next step up and that next step is called Consistency. Week in week out. Thats not just results thats the Manager and the players. Martial, James, Fred, McTominay - all of them. They need to prove they can get minimum 7 out of ten week in week out. And that means digging deep and not sulking and dropping your head when its not going right. For Ole it means proving he has more than Plan A. Then we can all have a rendition of Oles at the wheel.
What did we learn that we didn't already know? Nothing. What we have gained is confidence and belief. Those players should now believe they can beat anyone. Now take that into the next set of games - Everton, Watford, Newcastle, Burnley and get maximum points otherwise the wins mean nothing.
Once we complete those games and get top points we can hopefully get a couple of players in January and Pogba back and take the next step up and that next step is called Consistency. Week in week out. Thats not just results thats the Manager and the players. Martial, James, Fred, McTominay - all of them. They need to prove they can get minimum 7 out of ten week in week out. And that means digging deep and not sulking and dropping your head when its not going right. For Ole it means proving he has more than Plan A. Then we can all have a rendition of Oles at the wheel.
And here we go...Ole wins a couple of games & it’s back to these rubbish comparisons. If you can’t see that Poch is a much better manager there’s no hope for you. He made Spurs a perennial top 4 team with not much money, got them to a European Cup final-but Dinjgy behind his computer screen just says ‘ haha Poch has never won anything - he must be useless/ Ole is soooo much better’
It’s pretty embarrassing
- Status