Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[troylocker]

Where did I say that our best midfield is just as bad as Fred and pereira? Lets not make stuff in the quest to defend the manager and his bad results.

That was part of what I got out of your post, but if that was not what you meant, I am sorry.
Another one of my points in my post was that I don’t think all results, good or bad, are 100% on the manager, coaching team or the gameplan. Sports would be incredibly dull if that were the case. Margins, luck and the occasional odd thing happens, and that particular match was one of those cases in my opinion. That’s why I mean the CP-match was not the best example to bash Ole and him crew with.

Good to understand that we might agree to the argument that we might have had a higher point tally this season with Pogba and McTom playing, rather than being out with injuries then. Maybe those injuries have cost us some points?

 

[Mainoldo]

I am standing by every manager and think that a manager should be given time. Should a new manager come I would give him same backing as Ole gets by giving him time. Something you clearly are not willing to. I'm not like some of you who are hoping that we lose games just so you can change a manager you don't like..

When does giving time become deluded? By any means (mad example) nobody cared that Tiabi got shipped out after a month. I will always give people a chance but I have the right to asses someone and generate an opinion. It’s not a Ole hate it’s a I want what’s best for the club. I’m loyal to United not an employee, we have many of them.

 

[momo83]

Well, no. Taking a shot from a bad position will yield close to nothing in the xG/xPTS pot.

Yes. It looks at distant, angle and body part used. That alone doesn’t tell the full story so much more variables and nuances go into it, things that you can only judge with each unique opportunity

 

[Adnan]

That was part of what I got out of your post, but if that was not what you meant, I am sorry.
Another one of my points in my post was that I don’t think all results, good or bad, are 100% on the manager, coaching team or the gameplan. Sports would be incredibly dull if that were the case. Margins, luck and the occasional odd thing happens, and that particular match was one of those cases in my opinion. That’s why I mean the CP-match was not the best example to bash Ole and him crew with.

Good to understand that we might agree to the argument that we might have had a higher point tally this season with Pogba and McTom playing, rather than being out with injuries then. Maybe those injuries have cost us some points?

Had Pogba been available for the majority of the season I do believe we would've had more points.

But we have to ask ourselves, is there 'significantly' better options available to manage us at home and abroad? And if the answer is yes, then moving Solskjaer on, in a amicable way, is in the best interests of the club.

 

[troylocker]

Had Pogba been available for the majority of the season I do believe we would've had more points.

But we have to ask ourselves, is there 'significantly' better options available to manage us at home and abroad? And if the answer is yes, then moving Solskjaer on, in a amicable way, is in the best interests of the club.

I’ll give you my honest take on that.
The answer is probably.

But.

Since summer we haven’t played more than two-three matches with our best 11 available, it’s been impossible to have continuety in the starting lineup. He has not by any means maximized the performances with what he has had at his disposal, but his working conditions has not been optimal either. Because of this I don’t think we have seen what this team can do under him yet, and with an «injuryfree» squad and a good signing or two in January I do actually believe we can still compete with Leicester, Chelsea and Spurs for top 4 this season (best case scenario) or at least get top 6. I also think there is a plan that goes over more than one window to strenghten the squad and finish this «rebuild». I want to see what happens in the January window at least before I give my final judgement on this project. I don’t think one window and a troublefull first period is enough for me to feel he has been given a fair chance to succeed. I am also a fan of continuety, and think bringing in new managers with new 3-5 year plans and new ideas every 1-2,5 years is the perfect way to never reach longterm success.

You can compare with other managers that fit your narrative or arguments all you want, but it really is impossible to 100% translate success from one place to another, following one method, because the conditions are so different. The speed of processes are also varying, and while some things are implemented quickly others take more time, depending on the conditions that play in. It is impossible to know if the Ole project will fail or succeed yet, and if he is sacked now, we’ll never know. If he is backed with a good signing or two in January and we see no progress when summer comes, at least he would have got a fair chance to convince us and the board he’s the man. And maybe just as important: let a new manager take over a better squad with a preseason to prepare.

Our best 11 now is maybe top 4 quality, but is far behind Liverpool and City. I think this squad needs serious improvents in all departments, and most of all in attack and midfield. Our lack of creativity in the midfield and hunger in attack has become very visible this season and the squad screams for a creative #10 and a natural striker. More depth is also needed in the longer term to get a squad that could win any of the important silver.

I only want what is best for the club, and I don’t think sacking a manager midseason because of some bad results at the start of long term project is the correct solution. I think we need to be a little patient and give him a full season, and then evaluate.

 

[Adnan]

I’ll give you my honest take on that.
The answer is probably.

But.

Since summer we haven’t played more than two-three matches with our best 11 available, it’s been impossible to have continuety in the starting lineup. He has not by any means maximized the performances with what he has had at his disposal, but his working conditions has not been optimal either. Because of this I don’t think we have seen what this team can do under him yet, and with an «injuryfree» squad and a good signing or two in January I do actually believe we can still compete with Leicester, Chelsea and Spurs for top 4 this season (best case scenario) and at least get top 6. I also think there is a plan that goes over more than one window to strenghten the squad and finish this «rebuild». I want to see what happens in the January window at least before I give my final judgement on this project. I don’t think one window and a troublefull first period is enough for me to feel he has been given a fair chance to succeed. I am also a fan of continuety, and think bringing in new managers with new 3-5 year plans and new ideas every 1-2,5 years is the perfect way to never reach longterm success.

You can compare with other managers that fit your narrative or arguments all you want, but it really is impossible to 100% translate success from one place to another, following one method, because the conditions are so different. The speed of processes are also varying, and while some things are implemented quickly others take more time, depending on the conditions that play in. It is impossible to know if the Ole project will fail or succeed yet, and if he is sacked now, we’ll never know. If he is backed with a good signing or two in January and we see no progress when summer comes, at least he would have got a fair chance to convince us and the board he’s the man. And maybe just as important: let a new manager take over a better squad with a preseason to prepare.

Our best 11 now is maybe top 4 quality, but is a far behind Liverpool and City. I think this squad needs serious improvents in all departments, and most of all in attack and midfield. Our lack of creativity in the midfield and hunger in attack has become very visible this season and the squad screams for a creative #10 and a natural striker. More depth is also needed in the longer term to get a squad that could win any of the important silver.

I only want what is best for the club, and I don’t think sacking a manager midseason because of some bad results at the start of long term project is the correct solution. I think we need to be a little patient and give him a full season, and then evaluate.

That's fair enough and i hope you're right and I'm wrong.

 

[Rauður Djöfull]

So far his greatest tactic has been to get half of the fan base to throw all expectations and critical thinking out the window

 

[Merlin 1975-78]

I'm one of his biggest critics at the moment but I wouldn't sack him yet.

No neither would I because the problems any new Manager would have to face would be the same as those that, Moyes, LVG, Mourinho & Ole have all had to deal with & that is incompetent owners & their Puppet, Woodward & a group of players with the wrong attitude, of whom can't be easily shifted-out because that clown, Woodward has given to many of them riddiculas big contracts & no other clubs are daft enough to give us money for them unfortunately!

 

[Marcus]

53.6% vote sack so far. Just putting in a number so that I can review after the Spurs game and then the City game (if still applicable).

 

[SteveW]

Do people really think we have a chance against Spurs and City without Martial, Pogba and McTominay?

Will it be Ole's fault for not getting Fred, Pereira and Lingard up to the standard?

 

[ManRed]

Do people really think we have a chance against Spurs and City without Martial, Pogba and McTominay?

Will it be Ole's fault for not getting Fred, Pereira and Lingard up to the standard?

It's his fault going into the season believing in these players and with a player short in forward and midfield. We have a thin squad of 11 decent players. Lose one and the replacement is not even premier league mid table quality.

 

[SteveW]

It's his fault going into the season believing in these players and with a player short in forward and midfield. We have a thin squad of 11 decent players. Lose one and the replacement is not even premier league mid table quality.

We don't know what he was allowed to spend. Schmeichel said last week he knows for a fact that Ole wanted at least 2 more players but Ed didn't do it. Said he's managing with his hands tied.

 

[Adnan]

It's his fault going into the season believing in these players and with a player short in forward and midfield. We have a thin squad of 11 decent players. Lose one and the replacement is not even premier league mid table quality.

Ole wanted Longstaff and Rice if reports are to believed. But the snag was that Newcastle wanted £50m and West Ham wanted in excess of £60m for their player. Ole could've broadened his horizon and looked to players in the top European leagues but they won't deemed the 'right' player from a cultural perspective by Ole.

The same thing was doing the rounds at Carrington from what I heard whilst watching games.

 

[PaulRich]

I said that in the 6 games in between Liverpool and the Derby Ole had to get at least 12 points of the 18 available as a bare minimum - a win against Spurs would rack 11 up. Its not good enough and time is time I'm afraid.

 

[Member 117152]

The culture of our club holds us back. We are playing into everyone else’s hands by looking inward and not outward all the time. United is the global club in the world arguably and tons of our fans constantly bang on about if someone is Manc or not. Who cares?

It’s totally counter productive and creates a brain and talent drain due to blatant favouritism and the ‘United way’. It’s totally brain dead stuff that gets us nowhere. Scape goating players who don’t come from the academy etc...

Ronaldo, Keane and Schmeichel are my fav players ever for us and did they come from our academy? No!

I’m already hearing comments like Brandon Williams is gonna be a United great while insulting Luke Shaw. Keep dreaming. I’m seen nothing thus far that shows he is a bigger talent than Shaw.

In essence as soon as we get a new manager and backroom setup the better. Leave all this inward thinking behind us.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Do people really think we have a chance against Spurs and City without Martial, Pogba and McTominay?

Will it be Ole's fault for not getting Fred, Pereira and Lingard up to the standard?

We saw Pereira having a solid loan spell at La Liga and we witnessed Lingard's mini run of good games last season. Not claiming that the players are good but we know what the players are capable of.

If a manager got the best out of a mediocre player then credit goes to him, but if the said player unperformed then the manager is blameless?

 

[Dec9003]

The culture of our club holds us back. We are playing into everyone else’s hands by looking inward and not outward all the time. United is the global club in the world arguably and tons of our fans constantly bang on about if someone is Manc or not. Who cares?

It’s totally counter productive and creates a brain and talent drain due to blatant favouritism and the ‘United way’. It’s totally brain dead stuff that gets us nowhere. Scape goating players who don’t come from the academy etc...

Ronaldo, Keane and Schmeichel are my fav players ever for us and did they come from our academy? No!

I’m already hearing comments like Brandon Williams is gonna be a United great while insulting Luke Shaw. Keep dreaming. I’m seen nothing thus far that shows he is a bigger talent than Shaw.

In essence as soon as we get a new manager and backroom setup the better. Leave all this inward thinking behind us.

So the reason we’re struggling this season is Brandon Williams is from Manchester? A different take I’ll give you that.
This reads like someone has called you a plastic and you’ve not quite moved past it.

 

[SteveW]

We saw Pereira having a solid loan spell at La Liga and we witnessed Lingard's mini run of good games last season. Not claiming that the players are good but we know what the players are capable of.

If a manager got the best out of a mediocre player then credit goes to him, but if the said player unperformed then the manager is blameless?

He played as a winger in Spain. Did ok for Granada but ended up not being able to get into the team at Valencia as the season went on. He's never played well at United. Jose quickly abandoned him. He's not good enough, he never has been and we all know it. No point in trying to put that on Ole.

Jesse likewise. He's been poor for the vast majority of his United career under various different managers.

 

[Member 117152]

So the reason we’re struggling this season is Brandon Williams is from Manchester? A different take I’ll give you that.
This reads like someone has called you a plastic and you’ve not quite moved past it.

What I’m saying is our club is putting too much faith in home grown talent and disrespecting other players at the club who weren’t brought through the academy. I’ve got nothing against Williams, seems a decent player with a bit of recklessness about him.

The youth is the little illusion our club is going places when in reality we are not. Apart from Greenwood and ‘possibly’ McT (more mentality than technique but he won’t be dominating a midfield against City or Barcelona ever I highly doubt) I’ve seen nothing from our youth to suggest we’ll be a force in the future.

It’s like some of our fanbase want us to become Bilbao or something. We are the greatest club in England in greatness should be the aim. I don’t understand how some fans are still behind the current regime when the drop in standards is a disgrace.

 

[grahamo]

Woodward knows nothing, absolutely nothing about football. He is the one that needs to go. At least move him away from the sporting side of things and leave him in the financial side of things. ole should be given the season, even if we get relegated.

 

[Dec9003]

What I’m saying is our club is putting too much faith in home grown talent and disrespecting other players at the club who weren’t brought through the academy. I’ve got nothing against Williams, seems a decent player with a bit of recklessness about him.

The youth is the little illusion our club is going places when in reality we are not. Apart from Greenwood and ‘possibly’ McT (more mentality than technique but he won’t be dominating a midfield against City or Barcelona ever I highly doubt) I’ve seen nothing from our youth to suggest we’ll be a force in the future.

It’s like some of our fanbase want us to become Bilbao or something. We are the greatest club in England in greatness should be the aim. I don’t understand how some fans are still behind the current regime when the drop in standards is a disgrace.

Which players at the club have been disrespected compared to the youth players? That’s just making things up.
If you don’t understand why united supporters get excited by academy players, you are quite literally a plastic fan.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

What I’m saying is our club is putting too much faith in home grown talent and disrespecting other players at the club who weren’t brought through the academy. I’ve got nothing against Williams, seems a decent player with a bit of recklessness about him.

The youth is the little illusion our club is going places when in reality we are not. Apart from Greenwood and ‘possibly’ McT (more mentality than technique but he won’t be dominating a midfield against City or Barcelona ever I highly doubt) I’ve seen nothing from our youth to suggest we’ll be a force in the future.

It’s like some of our fanbase want us to become Bilbao or something. We are the greatest club in England in greatness should be the aim. I don’t understand how some fans are still behind the current regime when the drop in standards is a disgrace.

This. It's just the latest narrative.

The board have failed with several managerial appointments and subsequent transfer strategies so the Youth thing is just a distraction from this to buy them time and make it look like we are on a positive path.

The truth is we don't know if this is actually is a positive path, but history has told us that our academy doesn't produce many decent players....apart from one freakish graduation group almost 27yrs ago.

It's a nice idea but in reality, its likely to be bollocks - but if/when it fails, at least they've distracted the fans for 2-3yrs in the process and kept the season tickets coming in.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Which players at the club have been disrespected compared to the youth players? That’s just making things up.
If you don’t understand why united supporters get excited by academy players, you are quite literally a plastic fan.

Getting excited over them is understandable. Genuienly believing they are going to be world class and/or lead us back to successful times is misguided at best given past evidence.

 

[Dec9003]

Getting excited over them is understandable. Genuienly believing they are going to be world class and/or lead us back to successful times is misguided at best given past evidence.

No club will solely rely on youngsters and win the big trophies, but a few are definitely good enough to play a part.
Greenwood, Rashford, McTominay have all performed this season. Williams, Gomes, Garner and Axel all seem like interesting prospects.
There’s a lot of things wrong with United at the moment, but the young players are developing nicely.

 

[Buster15]

Do people really think we have a chance against Spurs and City without Martial, Pogba and McTominay?

Will it be Ole's fault for not getting Fred, Pereira and Lingard up to the standard?

Well who else.

 

[Enigma_87]

He played as a winger in Spain. Did ok for Granada but ended up not being able to get into the team at Valencia as the season went on. He's never played well at United. Jose quickly abandoned him. He's not good enough, he never has been and we all know it. No point in trying to put that on Ole.

Jesse likewise. He's been poor for the vast majority of his United career under various different managers.

Except he gave him a new contract and starts him every game despite being shite in the previous one.

 

[Hawks2008]

Ole wanted Longstaff and Rice if reports are to believed. But the snag was that Newcastle wanted £50m and West Ham wanted in excess of £60m for their player. Ole could've broadened his horizon and looked to players in the top European leagues but they won't deemed the 'right' player from a cultural perspective by Ole.

The same thing was doing the rounds at Carrington from what I heard whilst watching games.

The thought of blowing over £100m on Rice and Longstaff is grim. I could not think of a worse use of such funds. This is before even mentioning breaking the record fee for a defender on a player who isn't even a top 20 CB in the world.

And then people want to tell me the brexit fc thing is a myth.

 

[Member 117152]

This. It's just the latest narrative.

The board have failed with several managerial appointments and subsequent transfer strategies so the Youth thing is just a distraction from this to buy them time and make it look like we are on a positive path.

The truth is we don't know if this is actually is a positive path, but history has told us that our academy doesn't produce many decent players....apart from one freakish graduation group almost 27yrs ago.

It's a nice idea but in reality, its likely to be bollocks - but if/when it fails, at least they've distracted the fans for 2-3yrs in the process and kept the season tickets coming in.

This. Then you get people calling me a plastic fan for pointing out the obvious that our youth system is not good enough to rely on.

Rashford is my fav United player atm and he's from our youth academy so it obvisouly works sometimes but thats not enough to win anything major. It's not like our youth sides are destroying the competition and winning UEFA Youth Championships every year.

Apart from the excellent debuts of Laird and Levitt most of our youth against Astana looked slightly above average. You get called a plastic fan these days for pointing out United are in the top 3 biggest clubs in the world, it's madness the situation we are in. Mourinho openly got panned by our fanbase when pointing out our owners aren't buying players to win things. It's been proven since he knows more about football than anyone employed at our club and most of our fanbase too, who'd have thought?

As you say the reason they can drive the youth agenda is a godsend for the Glazers. Some fans will lap it up dreaming of days long past and hitching their hopes on the next academy product instead of demanding quality transfers and world class coaching.

 

[90 + 5min]

When does giving time become deluded? By any means (mad example) nobody cared that Tiabi got shipped out after a month. I will always give people a chance but I have the right to asses someone and generate an opinion. It’s not a Ole hate it’s a I want what’s best for the club. I’m loyal to United not an employee, we have many of them.

When? Well not exactly after 1 year when we all know that the team needs changes. So you are kind of saying against yourself. You want to give manager time, but on other hand you want them out after one year. Knowing that time is needed to repair damage club did to itself by tons of changes last 5 years. New manager would still have same problems. Ofcourse everyone is free to say whatever they want but sometimes it feels like emotions take controll and people lose their grip on reality.

Taibi? He only played beacuse of Bosnich getting injuried. I don't know what he has to do with this because players and managers are not the same.

Not Ole hate? Let's me than ask you something. Lets pretend now. Would you like to see us lose against Tottenham and City meaning Ole leaves or us winning one and draw one and Ole stays? Simple question.

 

[Mainoldo]

When? Well not exactly after 1 year when we all know that the team needs changes. So you are kind of saying against yourself. You want to give manager time, but on other hand you want them out after one year. Knowing that time is needed to repair damage club did to itself by tons of changes last 5 years. New manager would still have same problems. Ofcourse everyone is free to say whatever they want but sometimes it feels like emotions take controll and people lose their grip on reality.

Taibi? He only played beacuse of Bosnich getting injuried. I don't know what he has to do with this because players and managers are not the same.

Not Ole hate? Let's me than ask you something. Lets pretend now. Would you like to see us lose against Tottenham and City meaning Ole leaves or us winning one and draw one and Ole stays? Simple question.

Lose! Long term vision. Have to be crap to get good apparently

 

[90 + 5min]

Lose! Long term vision. Have to be crap to get good apparently

I'm not suprised. Your hate towards our manager is bigger than love for United. I understand now.

 

[Mainoldo]

I'm not suprised. Your hate towards our manager is bigger than love for United. I understand now.

Reverse I love United more than I love my manager. Which is the biggest problem for the Ole in guys. They would rather support a manager like a moral street code than do what’s best for the club.

We’ll both sit this out.. but once he’s gone you’ll understand how crap of a manager he was.

 

[mancave bear]

Reverse I love United more than I love my manager. Which is the biggest problem for the Ole in guys. They would rather support a manager like a moral street code than do what’s best for the club.

We’ll both sit this out.. but once he’s gone you’ll understand how crap of a manager he was.

You plastic fans want success now!
You would probably go for a banana now, rather than a million in a year. You dont have the brains and the guts to be patient an build up a proper squad.

I am so happy we have a manager who loves the team, and got the brains and the guts to rebuild the team the proper way. Not taking short cuts in order to save his own skin.

In 2022/2023 Ole will take us to the top.

If we keep switching managers we will be the new Leeds.

 

[John Blund]

Reverse I love United more than I love my manager. Which is the biggest problem for the Ole in guys. They would rather support a manager like a moral street code than do what’s best for the club.

We’ll both sit this out.. but once he’s gone you’ll understand how crap of a manager he was.

I'm still in Ole in-camp. As long as the players still believe in him, and they pull out performances like they did today, I'm still behind him. Next up is City, and they don't look unbeatable. Unless KDB decides to win the game.

 

[RedTiger]

2022/2023 Ole will take us to the top.

If the board backs him this summer then it could be sooner

 

[RooneyLegend]

Reverse I love United more than I love my manager. Which is the biggest problem for the Ole in guys. They would rather support a manager like a moral street code than do what’s best for the club.

We’ll both sit this out.. but once he’s gone you’ll understand how crap of a manager he was.

All these managers post Sir Alex who've all been utter trash seem to have devout loyalists for one reason or another. I'm still asking myself why.

 

[RooneyLegend]

If the board backs him this summer then it could be sooner

You think Ole could win the prem?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Good victory tonight & I enjoyed it. Definite lack of quality in the team still (too 4 isn’t happening) but enjoyed it & we played well.
Still think we can do much better manager wise though

 

[Irwin99]

Spurs result is a big one, i think a lot of fans expect a defeat to City so that was never going to sway things (a win would be big though). I don't think it changes anything in the long run, i think we'll still continue to yo-yo up and down the table unless there's a big winning or losing streak at some point.

The players are playing for him, no question. I'd like to see the running stats for that match as some of our players looked absolutely knackered at the end (understandable)

 

[mancave bear]

If the board backs him this summer then it could be sooner

Yes. I think that would be wise for bussines to. A lot of fans are getting tired of them. Not buying united mercandise anymore.