Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Massive Spanner]

Yet he consistently "outsmarts" supposed top managers so this goes well beyond tactics. I find it hard to believe he has figured out the likes of Klopp and Jose, yet cant handle the game plans of Sheffield, Soton and Villa

We put 3 past Sheffield who by then was sitting very deep in their own half, so its not like parked busses are kryptonite either. All of our games vs this big team this year we have been up for it and showed some real fight, where as vs the smaller teams we have seemed very complacent at times. In almost all of those matches vs the smaller teams we have dropped points from a winning position, so its not so much a problem in attack as it is in defense.

The amount of soft goals we have conceded this year when leading is a real concern. Take those out and we suddenly would be much higher up the table

Do you really not see the irony of giving Ole all the praise when we put in good performances against the big teams yet absolving him from blame and instead repeatedly claiming our squad is shit whenever we get beaten by lesser teams?

 

[meamth]

I had a grin until the end of the game.

"Ole has no clue"
"No tactics"
"Out of his depth"
"Jose will bury Ole"

That goes through my mind, the whole game.

But don't worry, the Ole out regime will come back after we lose to City.

 

[youngrell]

It’s surely easier to improve our fortunes against the weaker teams than it would be to do so against the better teams, so let’s give the guy some time to do just that and we’ll start climbing the table.

Squad needs a fair bit of bolstering in many areas, at the moment we have almost no one to come off the bench and effect the game positively. I mean, just look at the subs Spurs were able to make last night in comparison.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Do you really not see the irony of giving Ole all the praise when we put in good performances against the big teams yet absolving him from blame and instead repeatedly claiming our squad is shit whenever we get beaten by lesser teams?

No, he and they don't see it mate. You're wasting your time. Just relax we know what's coming in a few games, another disgraceful run of form.

 

[Jonno]

Another twist in the tale.

I really do want Ole to succeed. I think he is trying to rebuild United brick by brick. It's a slow, up and down process.

I see both sides of the argument. I see why people want him gone for a ready made world class manager to quickly get us up to top 4 standards.

I see why people want Ole to do the job, it might take 2-3 extra years compared to a Poch or another top class manager.

I enjoy the styles of play Ole tries to play, and there's only so much you can do with limited players, and 3-4 in our 11 are limited. Imagine a world class number 9, number 10, left back and holding midfielder. That team would give anybody a game and I genuinely can see what steps Ole is trying to take.

I keep changing my mind in what I want. If we sack Ole, we're effectively selling our soul in terms of everything we want Manchester United to stand for. We're trying to re-build our club into a fast, attacking, home grown club complimented with world class additions. Sack him now, mid-rebuild and we're left at square 1, where a new manager might not fancy half the squad and another fire sale might happen, with no guarantee that new signings from a new manager would be the answer.

I'm leaning towards sticking with him. Lets weather this season and see if we strengthen the key areas needed.

 

[*Riley*]

Wins a game and he's now the saviour!

I have just read he can mix it against Klopp, Jose ect.. Nonsense! I see the players having more space and Les 'low block' to break down against the big teams. Wen Ole needs to get his tactics right, he doesn't. I like his plan to start from the bottom but he doesn't have the knowledge or tactical awareness for a rebuild.

Ole fan boys will wakeup after yet another run of poor results over Xmas but it's okay..
We're 'rebuilding'

 

[Enigma_87]

Another false dawn.

Some people will never learn.

 

[RUCK4444]

Another false dawn.

Some people will never learn.

With respect the same could be said about the Ole Out crowd who just want a new manager every season and throwing tens of millions down the drain

 

[Enigma_87]

With respect the same could be said about the Ole Out crowd who just want a new manager every season and throwing tens of millions down the drain

Our problems have always been against mid to lower placed teams that we have to break up. Against good sides we can camp at our own half and play counter attacking football which allows our forwards to run into space. It was the same since he took over and it's the same now.

When we should be the dominant side we are devoid of ideas and clueless all over. After the City game it will be the same when we meet some worse sides.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

I suspect that's already been factored in. Thus the draconian cost cuts ie chopping the deadwood starting with Mophead a year ago and then the summer and our small net spend -- all the while Woodward is able to manage the bottom line and the financial goals for the shareholders.
They must have looked at the squad 12 months ago and started planning. How good is that squad in terms of challenging and compared that squad with the competition?
Then Ole/Phelan presents a plan or more likely two or three options of their plans going forward. Then Woodward has to balance each plan against first and foremost, his financial obligations.

The agreed option chosen is a bit like fixing up an old car -- with a budget. First things first is for now, is to strip off the current paintwork and rust down to the bare metal for the entire car. But since there is a limited budget this time, Ole has to choose the parts he thinks needs to get fixed first ie defense.

On the next visit to the shop/transfer window, he will choose another part of the car which I suspect will be midfielders and maybe punt on an attacker now that we see how thin out squads are plus the fresh academy kids have not all taken up any starting 11 positions there (unless you consider McT a fresh academy kid.)

Eventually, when we can afford it (ie balancing Woodward's financial obligations to the shareholders and the investment they are willing to punt ie trust of Ole's approach & execution) we will get some blings and accessories that will make it some sort of boy racer/feck you car.

This is how I would do it if I was Woodward -- a more mature, gradual step by step approach to a re-build rather than his initial years of blinded by the star managers and players. Knee jerk approach.

And for those who hope to see the latest shiny bling manager come in, I highly doubt it.

It would be the career nail in Woodward's coffin. I see Woodward's future tied in with Ole's. He has lost too much money with the past managers not to be looked upon poorly by the shareholders. Three feck-ups in the last seven years will be too much for the owners to handle.

Woodward is also using Ole, club legend who has some political/emotional capital with some of the fans ie buying time to see through this step by step approach of not just the footballing philosophy but also the ability to do a root & branch restructuring/modernising of the club.

Great post. I agree totally. Let’s hope we get a positive outcome from this experiment and it all ends in success for United. I know United fans have been spoilt with success for the best part of two decades under Fergie but we are going to have to learn to be a little bit patient this time.

 

[sglowrider]

Great post. I agree totally. Let’s hope we get a positive outcome from this experiment and it all ends in success for United. I know United fans have been spoilt with success for the best part of two decades under Fergie but we are going to have to learn to be a little bit patient this time.

Thanks.

The bottom line is that we need to assume that United is run like a business. Its no longer run like a football club, that takes 2nd priority. Then the strategy, decisions made will make sense. If you are the MD of a company brought it, in most companies you will need to propose a plan and then given time to improve and usually its a hockey curve and not some naive straight-line projection upwards. When you need to re-structure companies, you dont look at it from week to week or you will go bonkers.

The Ole Out brigade is being emotion, fantastical and living on the glorious past. We are where we are at because of previous managements, stuck with an ensalada of players. We need to scrape off the old and clean up before we can build forward.
Its a job for Ole and team and not some emotional roller coaster ride. And no job should be judged on a week to week basis.

Enough with the fecking hysterics. One loss and they cant wait to crawl out of the woodwork. What fecking plastic fans. It makes me wonder what some of them do in life -- so uncontrolled emotions. If you ever had to build or re-build an organisation or change management (which I think is much harder), you will know what he is doing.

 

[E-mal]

Still need sacking but he is not the only problem. The football structure and the players need overhauling too.
One win against a flaky Spurs side isn't going to change my mind.
Though we were the better team, the performance last night was just poor from both teams.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Thanks.

The bottom line is that we need to assume that United is run like a business. Its no longer run like a football club, that takes 2nd priority. Then the strategy, decisions made will make sense. If you are the MD of a company brought it, in most companies you will need to propose a plan and then given time to improve and usually its a hockey curve and not some naive straight-line projection upwards. When you need to re-structure companies, you dont look at it from week to week or you will go bonkers.

The Ole Out brigade is being emotion, fantastical and living on the glorious past. We are where we are at because of previous managements, stuck with an ensalada of players. We need to scrape off the old and clean up before we can build forward.
Its a job for Ole and team and not some emotional roller coaster ride. And no job should be judged on a week to week basis.

Enough with the fecking hysterics. One loss and they cant wait to crawl out of the woodwork. What fecking plastic fans. It makes me wonder what some of them do in life -- so uncontrolled emotions. If you ever had to build or re-build an organisation or change management (which I think is much harder), you will know what he is doing.

One loss? Mate have you seen where we are. It's not madness to think Ole hasn't done a good job.

We are doing terribly.

That said fair play on last night, delighted with the performance and the win. Now before getting excited or taking things out of context I will be waiting to see the games versus the fodder as that is where he has us doing disgracefully poor.

Fix that and I'd be delighted. If he doesn't fix it starting now then it is reasonable to say he isn't doing doing enough.

It's not some thing about wanting a new manager every 5 minutes. It's about what's wanting what's best for United based on what we see.

Some fans opinions myself included just think that Ole isn't a good enough manager. I want him to be though. Gain nothing out of him failing other than misery.

Sure he has a poor squad but not so poor that we should lose and draw to the likes of Villa, Sheffield, Bournemouth, Southampton, Newcastle etc etc.

Oles bought himself time with that good result let's hope he uses it wisely and improves performances versus the fodder and also pushes to strengthen the team in January as he was naïve in the summer in not forcing for more moves.

 

[Bilbo]

Still need sacking but he is not the only problem. The football structure and the players need overhauling too.
One win against a flaky Spurs side isn't going to change my mind.
Though we were the better team, the performance last night was just poor from both teams.

Poppycock - United were very good last night.

 

[M16Red]

Enough with the fecking hysterics. One loss and they cant wait to crawl out of the woodwork. What fecking plastic fans. It makes me wonder what some of them do in life -- so uncontrolled emotions. If you ever had to build or re-build an organisation or change management (which I think is much harder), you will know what he is doing.

100% - I think his or the boards one failure was bringing in two more players CF and MF. We'd been a much stronger position if we did. Maybe they did try but there is no point in getting players just for bodies.

It's a complete rebuild, I'm currently doing the same in work creating / updating a new department and the key is to hold firm and realise this takes time.

 

[NJM78]

Still Ole out. Nothing has changed for me.

 

[7even]

Thanks.



....The Ole Out brigade is being emotion, fantastical and living on the glorious past.

....Enough with the fecking hysterics. One loss and they cant wait to crawl out of the woodwork. What fecking plastic fans. It makes me wonder what some of them do in life -- so uncontrolled emotions. If you ever had to build or re-build an organisation or change management (which I think is much harder), you will know what he is doing.

Maybe you first should have a look at yourself before labeling those who sees things differently as hysterics. It’s easy to dismiss the good part of your posts when you end up like this.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

the performance last night was just poor from both teams.

This is what happens when you only watch champions league finals every year.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

My opinion on Ole hasn't been forged in a vacuum of one football game. My opinion is based on what I've seen since he was appointed permanent manager, and during that period of time I have witnessed a 'Dogshite to Good' ratio of 80:20. For me to start changing my mind, I want to see that ratio move to something like 40:60.

Last night was a great performance and result, and Ole gets my credit for playing a blinder. But one swallow does not a summer make. We've seen these type of results before against big teams, we are game raisers. They're usually surrounded by losses and draws to shite teams, midtable results in other words.

I think we'll lose on the weekend. But that's almost a gimme result for Ole. It's the following run of fixtures my eyes are on, because I actually can see us going on something of a run of form - mainly wins.

I'm going to reserve my judgement for now as this result has definitely given Ed pause for thought so I don't see a point in debating Ole's sacking for a while. Certainly not after the City game, either.

I still don't think Ole is good enough to manage a big club. So to that effect, I still think we should get rid.

 

[Bobcat]

Do you really not see the irony of giving Ole all the praise when we put in good performances against the big teams yet absolving him from blame and instead repeatedly claiming our squad is shit whenever we get beaten by lesser teams?

The post i was replying to blamed him for getting "outsmarted" by lesser managers so i just replied in kind. Dont you see the irony in blaming him for losses and not praising him for wins?

Even the best manager are at the mercy of their squads. As there is only so much you can do regarding tactics and coaching while important is not half as important as many people on here would suggest. Even then, we have seen some players like Rashford an Fred improve under Ole, and very few regress so him and his coaches cant be all that bad either.

I would say there are a myriad of factors responsible for us being so inconsistent. Injuries and lack of squad depth the most important ones, but also the fact that we have a young and inexperienced squad, lack certain profiles who are good at breaking down low blocks. Of course tactics matter and its no shock that we struggle with low blocks and thrive vs teams that push high since we are much better on the counter than on slow, methodical build up

And yes, outside of the obvious first XI our squad is pretty shit. Our options on the bench are either kids or dinosaurs

 

[redcafe_reader]

Our problems have always been against mid to lower placed teams that we have to break up. Against good sides we can camp at our own half and play counter attacking football which allows our forwards to run into space. It was the same since he took over and it's the same now.

When we should be the dominant side we are devoid of ideas and clueless all over. After the City game it will be the same when we meet some worse sides.

Did we camp at our own half again Mourinho's Spur?

The thing is, Ole style requires a lot of running and aggression/determination from the players, which is easier to acquire on match again big team. When he can motivate our player to have the same mindset every game (or buy players with that mindset already, like James), we will be a much stronger force.

 

[Massive Spanner]

The post i was replying to blamed him for getting "outsmarted" by lesser managers so i just replied in kind. Dont you see the irony in blaming him for losses and not praising him for wins?

Even the best manager are at the mercy of their squads. As there is only so much you can do regarding tactics and coaching while important is not half as important as many people on here would suggest. Even then, we have seen some players like Rashford an Fred improve under Ole, and very few regress so him and his coaches cant be all that bad either.

I would say there are a myriad of factors responsible for us being so inconsistent. Injuries and lack of squad depth the most important ones, but also the fact that we have a young and inexperienced squad, lack certain profiles who are good at breaking down low blocks. Of course tactics matter and its no shock that we struggle with low blocks and thrive vs teams that push high since we are much better on the counter than on slow, methodical build up

And yes, outside of the obvious first XI our squad is pretty shit. Our options on the bench are either kids or dinosaurs

There is an irony in it which is why I don't do it. Both he and the team did well last night. Just like both he and the team have done very poorly for most of our games this season. You can't go saying "look how great Ole did last night" and then turn around and say "oh it's not Ole's fault, our squad's crap and we had injuries and bla bla" whenever we lose. You are unfairly absolving the manager of blame and shitting on the team in order to do so.

I mean the whole "Ole in" narrative is essentially "our squad is shite, it's not his fault", yet somehow this squad can beat Chelsea, Spurs, and be the only team to take points off that Liverpool side. How shit can they possibly be? And when we played two of those three sides we were doing it with injuries to key players, so again, not really an excuse is it, that somehow with injuries we can get results in games like that and yet drop points against the worst sides in the league?

You can't go having it both ways yourself and then claim others are being unfair on Ole whenever we win a match by not giving him praise, because that is exactly what you are doing with the squad when we win a match..

 

[sglowrider]

100% - I think his or the boards one failure was bringing in two more players CF and MF. We'd been a much stronger position if we did. Maybe they did try but there is no point in getting players just for bodies.

It's a complete rebuild, I'm currently doing the same in work creating / updating a new department and the key is to hold firm and realise this takes time.

Precisely. Those Ole Out folks are being emotional or not been in similar position of rebuild.

A rebuild or change management or organisational re-structuring etc requires buy-in then execution according to expected milestones. Nothing works according to plan and I bet your bosses dont look at your work every friday and see if there have been any improvements.
The long the rot, the tougher the re-build. Thats why Woodward is drawing that proverbial line in the sand and decided to restructure everything. The culture has to change and that's very, very difficult. This is why Ole has an advantage -- he knows the club and he knows what needs to get done.

 

[sglowrider]

My opinion on Ole hasn't been forged in a vacuum of one football game. My opinion is based on what I've seen since he was appointed permanent manager, and during that period of time I have witnessed a 'Dogshite to Good' ratio of 80:20. For me to start changing my mind, I want to see that ratio move to something like 40:60.
I still don't think Ole is good enough to manage a big club. So to that effect, I still think we should get rid.

If the ability to manage a 'big club' is critical -- then explain why LVG, Jose failed? Surely they have managed the biggest of the bigs. Didnt they get sacked at Barca and RM respectively? But at least they won some silverware... but Poch has?

This Ole out agenda is full of holes in the argument -- sounding like Ty from AFTV now.

 

[Enigma_87]

Did we camp at our own half again Mourinho's Spur?

The thing is, Ole style requires a lot of running and aggression/determination from the players, which is easier to acquire on match again big team. When he can motivate our player to have the same mindset every game (or buy players with that mindset already, like James), we will be a much stronger force.

First half we were very determined and started off well. Spurs were really poor and you can say that they equalized against the run of play. Second half we played on counters and gave them the possession.

 

[Bobcat]

I suspect that's already been factored in. Thus the draconian cost cuts ie chopping the deadwood starting with Mophead a year ago and then the summer and our small net spend -- all the while Woodward is able to manage the bottom line and the financial goals for the shareholders.
They must have looked at the squad 12 months ago and started planning. How good is that squad in terms of challenging and compared that squad with the competition?
Then Ole/Phelan presents a plan or more likely two or three options of their plans going forward. Then Woodward has to balance each plan against first and foremost, his financial obligations.

The agreed option chosen is a bit like fixing up an old car -- with a budget. First things first is for now, is to strip off the current paintwork and rust down to the bare metal for the entire car. But since there is a limited budget this time, Ole has to choose the parts he thinks needs to get fixed first ie defense.

On the next visit to the shop/transfer window, he will choose another part of the car which I suspect will be midfielders and maybe punt on an attacker now that we see how thin out squads are plus the fresh academy kids have not all taken up any starting 11 positions there (unless you consider McT a fresh academy kid.)

Eventually, when we can afford it (ie balancing Woodward's financial obligations to the shareholders and the investment they are willing to punt ie trust of Ole's approach & execution) we will get some blings and accessories that will make it some sort of boy racer/feck you car.

This is how I would do it if I was Woodward -- a more mature, gradual step by step approach to a re-build rather than his initial years of blinded by the star managers and players. Knee jerk approach.

And for those who hope to see the latest shiny bling manager come in, I highly doubt it.

It would be the career nail in Woodward's coffin. I see Woodward's future tied in with Ole's. He has lost too much money with the past managers not to be looked upon poorly by the shareholders. Three feck-ups in the last seven years will be too much for the owners to handle.

Woodward is also using Ole, club legend who has some political/emotional capital with some of the fans ie buying time to see through this step by step approach of not just the footballing philosophy but also the ability to do a root & branch restructuring/modernising of the club.

Very sensible post, especially the second last paragraph is pretty fecking important imo. Woody probably cant handle more feck ups, so his fate is tied to Ole's which is probably why he recently backed him in public despite our shaky form. If we truly are set on a slow long-term strategy i also hope the board comes to their senses and hire a DoF and let Woody just handle the finances

 

[GDaly95]

Bringing youngsters through brilliantly, not throwing them into the firing line despite the temptation to do so.

Changed McTominay's role, turning him into a key player.

Has Rashford in the form of his life.

The team looks like it cares again.

Has been absolutely fantastic against the top teams.

Has been slated for not being able to break down a low block with no creative midfield players.

If we sack him before bringing him midfielders, then he's not been given a proper chance. It's that simple.

Ole in

 

[Massive Spanner]

Precisely. Those Ole Out folks are being emotional or not been in similar position of rebuild.

That is a simplistic, condescending and incorrect tone. You think those that want a manager out who has severely under performed in his role are the emotional ones? The ones who want him replaced with a much better manager like Poch or Nagelsmann? That's not emotional, that's practical. I mean we would all love for Ole to succeed here and we were all buzzing early on when he was so how can you say it's emotion that makes us want rid of him? Ridiculous.

Are you sure the emotional ones aren't those who want him in because he's a club legend and they have some fairytale notion that if we give a manager who has largely proven inept so far "more time" that he'll do some magic and turn it around, something no manager has ever done from a position as dire as this in the PL before?

 

[sglowrider]

Very sensible post, especially the second last paragraph is pretty fecking important imo. Woody probably cant handle more feck ups, so his fate is tied to Ole's which is probably why he recently backed him in public despite our shaky form. If we truly are set on a slow long-term strategy i also hope the board comes to their senses and hire a DoF and let Woody just handle the finances

To be cynical, I suspect Ole has pushed the academy agenda simply because Woodward wasn't willing to release the funds. So to sound positive, he is pushing that -- but christ on a stick, under any circumstances, its hell of a gamble to play or introduce so many at once for any progressive manager ... unless he has been forced to.

 

[sglowrider]

That is a simplistic, condescending and incorrect tone. You think those that want a manager out who has severely under performed in his role are the emotional ones? The ones who want him replaced with a much better manager like Poch or Nagelsmann? That's not emotional, that's practical. I mean we would all love for Ole to succeed here and we were all buzzing early on when he was so how can you say it's emotion that makes us want rid of him? Ridiculous.

Are you sure the emotional ones aren't those who want him in because he's a club legend and they have some fairytale notion that if we give a manager who has largely proven inept so far "more time" that he'll do some magic and turn it around, something no manager has ever done from a position as dire as this in the PL before?

Please re-read my post. Its about restructuring an organisation or a rebuild. There is nothing emotional about that process. Its very logical.

 

[fergosaurus]

Still Ole out. Nothing has changed for me.

Same. Van Gaal had a good record against the top 6 and he also deserved the chop. If Ole can get last night's performances consistently then he'll deserve time but nothing has indicated he's capable of doing so.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

If the ability to manage a 'big club' is critical -- then explain why LVG, Jose failed? Surely they have managed the biggest of the bigs. Didnt they get sacked at Barca and RM respectively? But at least they won some silverware... but Poch has?

This Ole out agenda is full of holes in the argument -- sounding like Ty from AFTV now.

Mate, its the Ole In lot that resemble Ty. As in all is rosy with the club and the club knows what they're doing. You've got it all wrong, there.

Like I said, my opinion remains the same. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has never managed a big club until now and is currently not doing very well at all managing his first big club.

Once he begins to prove me wrong, my opinion will likely change. Until then, I want proof. A 28% win record since taking over permanently is all the proof I currently need.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Please re-read my post. Its about restructuring an organisation or a rebuild. There is nothing emotional about that process. Its very logical.

I did read it and I still think it's a stupid point. My overall argument was that calling people emotional for wanting him gone is ridiculous. Emotional would be wanting him to still succeed here in spite of him looking completely out of his depth. It's practical to want him gone and replaced with someone better to do the rebuild.

 

[SteveW]

There is an irony in it which is why I don't do it. Both he and the team did well last night. Just like both he and the team have done very poorly for most of our games this season. You can't go saying "look how great Ole did last night" and then turn around and say "oh it's not Ole's fault, our squad's crap and we had injuries and bla bla" whenever we lose. You are unfairly absolving the manager of blame and shitting on the team in order to do so.

I mean the whole "Ole in" narrative is essentially "our squad is shite, it's not his fault", yet somehow this squad can beat Chelsea, Spurs, and be the only team to take points off that Liverpool side. How shit can they possibly be? And when we played two of those three sides we were doing it with injuries to key players, so again, not really an excuse is it, that somehow with injuries we can get results in games like that and yet drop points against the worst sides in the league?

You can't go having it both ways yourself and then claim others are being unfair on Ole whenever we win a match by not giving him praise, because that is exactly what you are doing with the squad when we win a match..

What's the question though? He dropped points so deserves the sack? Make sure he gets his punishment?

He's shown he can beat good teams like Spurs and Chelsea. Should we not be looking into that potential? If you know anything about football you know the feeling squad has serious weaknesses. He's clearly quite astute when it comes to these big games. That's a huge attribute. Are you really so sure that he wouldn't succeed with a more balanced squad? And are you that convinced that he won't chose the right players to sign? I see lots of potential in Ole.

I think a lot of people made a quick decision that he's out of his depth though. They've drawn a mental line under it and just want to be right even if the evidence might suggest otherwise. In their minds its just a matter of losing enough points to ensure hes meets the sacking criteria. Get it done and move on.

But is that right? Theres plenty of evidence to suggest he can do a good job here. The players fought for him and a whole stadium sang his name last night. Whether cafe posters like it or not Ole is the manager and will be for a while yet.

Why not actually give him some proper support?

 

[mancan92]

Thanks.

The bottom line is that we need to assume that United is run like a business. Its no longer run like a football club, that takes 2nd priority. Then the strategy, decisions made will make sense. If you are the MD of a company brought it, in most companies you will need to propose a plan and then given time to improve and usually its a hockey curve and not some naive straight-line projection upwards. When you need to re-structure companies, you dont look at it from week to week or you will go bonkers.

The Ole Out brigade is being emotion, fantastical and living on the glorious past. We are where we are at because of previous managements, stuck with an ensalada of players. We need to scrape off the old and clean up before we can build forward.
Its a job for Ole and team and not some emotional roller coaster ride. And no job should be judged on a week to week basis.

Enough with the fecking hysterics. One loss and they cant wait to crawl out of the woodwork. What fecking plastic fans. It makes me wonder what some of them do in life -- so uncontrolled emotions. If you ever had to build or re-build an organisation or change management (which I think is much harder), you will know what he is doing.

One loss? Are you serious?

Come on what is our record since the PSG game? Are people really basing their thoughts on the last two games? Or genuinely what has been happening for 9 months now?

 

[Bobcat]

There is an irony in it which is why I don't do it. Both he and the team did well last night. Just like both he and the team have done very poorly for most of our games this season. You can't go saying "look how great Ole did last night" and then turn around and say "oh it's not Ole's fault, our squad's crap and we had injuries and bla bla" whenever we lose. You are unfairly absolving the manager of blame and shitting on the team in order to do so.

I mean the whole "Ole in" narrative is essentially "our squad is shite, it's not his fault", yet somehow this squad can beat Chelsea, Spurs, and be the only team to take points off that Liverpool side. How shit can they possibly be? And when we played two of those three sides we were doing it with injuries to key players, so again, not really an excuse is it, that somehow with injuries we can get results in games like that and yet drop points against the worst sides in the league?

You can't go having it both ways yourself and then claim others are being unfair on Ole whenever we win a match by not giving him praise, because that is exactly what you are doing with the squad when we win a match..

Well, the best teams usually tend to have he best squads. That's just the way it is. That bolded part is a big strawman. Look at the player performance thread, full of praise for pretty much anyone. I dont think there is a single poster on here who only gives the manager praise after a win and only blames the players after a loss.

Yes we best some good teams and have drawn/lost to much worse teams. Is Ole self sabotaging when we play worse teams? Pretty much everyone was in agreement the squad needed massive surgery and so far hes only had 1 window to do it. Everyone knows injuries happen, but in our case its pretty critical because it often leads to a pretty dramatic drop in quality. The two matches vs Sheffield and Villa for example. We had McTomminay out and as a result out midfield completely collapsed. Back yesterday and we bossed a reinvigorated Spurs side

Good managers can have bad squads and bad managers can have good squads. Mancini for example beat Ferguson to the league title, but you would be utterly mad to suggest the former is a better manager than the latter.

I dont know if Ole is the right man to take us forward, but what i don know is that this rebuild is just underway and this squad is very much a work in progress. Of course Ole is not faultless and some of the blame for our shite league record has to be put on him, but both in defeat and success this is a shared effort

 

[SteveW]

I did read it and I still think it's a stupid point. My overall argument was that calling people emotional for wanting him gone is ridiculous. Emotional would be wanting him to still succeed here in spite of him looking completely out of his depth. It's practical to want him gone and replaced with someone better to do the rebuild.

How does he look out of his depth? I keep seeing that thrown around without a hint of evidence. He beat one of the best managers in the world last night. How is that someone out of his depth??

 

[sglowrider]

One loss? Are you serious?

Come on what is our record since the PSG game? Are people really basing their thoughts on the last two games? Or genuinely what has been happening for 9 months now?

Let me correct myself -- the next loss.

Obviously we have not lost only one match.

 

[b82REZ]

I need to see a lot more before I stop thinking this is just another false dawn.

Performance wise, it was probably our best performance of the season. But we've seen this time and again under Solskjaer against the top 6 teams. Also get the feeling at least a certain Brazilian midfielder may have had a little bit to prove last night. We need this hunger in the other 30 games throughout the season and I still seriously doubt Solksjaer is the man to motivate these players to treat every game like a cup final.

5 wins all season is diabolical and is not good enough for Watford and certainly should not be accepted at United. Talk of patience just reeks of blind optimism because generally we have no signs of the plan Ole and 47% of this forum keep talking about.

If we can string together good performances throughout Cristmas and show these kinds of performances against your Brightons of this league I may reconsider giving him until the end of the season, but there seems to be highter than likely chance we'll perform at weekend and then be back to looking devoid of ideas the week after.

 

[Cassidy]

How does he look out of his depth? I keep seeing that thrown around without a hint of evidence. He beat one of the best managers in the world last night. How is that someone out of his depth??

Getting out played by Villa, Bournemouth Sheffield United etc etc maybe?