Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Rafaeldagold]

7th and its still just Nov. Top 4 I guess is very achievable target with totts and arse flailing left right and center. So lets see what Ole can do now that our injury crisis are getting better and january is looming.

We are nearer relegation than 4th

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Here lies the problem - The keep Ole-people can't prove that he is good enough. The sack Ole-people can't prove he isn't good enough

But people saying they KNOW either way - are stupid. I think he is the right person for us here and now, I may even be pretty confident, but I could be wrong. But even if I am one of those who defend him the most, you will never hear me say "I KNOW he is the right person for us".

I am however willing to accept a mediocre season because I see signs of something that I am confident will pay off in 12-18 months. When you look at how good this team can perform on their day with a bunch om 20-23 year olds in the side and we have even bigger talents who are likely to be regulars in 2-3 years - I am not worried. And we will have off-days because our squad is thin and we have too many youngsters for it to be ideal.

But on our day we can tear Chelsea apart, we can (almost) beat Liverpool, we can completely shackle Leicesters attackers, we can destroy teams like Norwich and Brighton. But we are not good enough to do it regularly...YET!

So basically a game-raising midtable team at present. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[meamth]

One thing time does automatically "imbue" him with is probably the thing he most lacks - experience of managing a club at the highest level. A major consideration is, if Ole is still in charge in 12 months, will he be a better manager than he is now.

As for fans assessing him over "a long period", he hasn't even been in charge for a season yet. And if you can't see a style of play developing for United under Ole, I really don't know what to tell you. The favoured style of play is really clear. Whether they have had the available players to implement it (especially with Martial and Pogba missing large chunks of the season) is another question.

As for whether another club would stick with Ole, that's comparing apples with oranges. United are one of the few clubs in world football who place the responsibility of building the squad on the manager.

When you entrust a manager with a long term rebuild, sacrificing the current season by gutting the squad before a future rebuild, you can't sack him a few months later for poor results.

Spot on. I'm genuinely confused with these fans.

I've been supporting United all my life, nothing came close to make sleep since LVG times.

Even if we're losing a game with Ole, I can see the kids trying their best even if things aren't going well for them.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Give it a rest with this same old tired argument. Just because you cant join the dotted lines you have to bring up the managerial history argument? Our last three managers (incl Moyesy) were probably some of the most experienced managers in the world. Where did that get us?

A re-build/change management of any company or the startup of any organisation will also have its hiccups, or in startup parlance, its a hockey curve.

You cant always go comparing it to the past -- people forget that it was never a straight line to any successful regime incl Fergie's. He was one of the most successful managers ever. Its pointless to try and compare -- we may never hit those heights again. (And Fergie's genius wasnt that he was just successful but the fact that he built four generations of them in the same club -- thats what sets him apart.)

Its only people who can't see beyond reactionary or short term perspective ie week to week that are unable to see the grand scheme or big-picture plan that Ole is trying to implement. (And I have written about this in the past)

Yes, Ole may fail to translate the theoretical aspects aka the rebuild plan -- but it's not to be judged on a week to week basis. And not certainly now, with only one transfer window -- even though if you are to judge him his transfers, they have all had immediate impacts. That's a good sign as he sees and knows what he wants to fix and all three have dovetailed in perfectly.

But if you are to 'judge' it, you ought to plot a line of the scattered dots in the chart and you will see there is some upward trajectory at the moment. Whether it will get us back to the top, its too early to tell.

As they say, its not the destination. Its the journey.

So much nonsense in here with not a lot of actual meaningful sentences said. I wish you guys gave an actual decent manager like LVG all this leeway & time & not someone who got Cardiff relegated & then got sacked by then the next season.

No one expected to win the title but to be closer to top 4 than relegation would be nice.

And yes we’ve had good managers before who have won us things & got us in the top 4 race- So if they failed then Ole most definitely has & should be sacked according to your own logic.

Also your own logic says we’ve tried good managers so now we should stick with a terrible one because you think they didn’t work out? How stupid is that?

Our standards are so low now & the fans need to take a part of the blame for this. Any other big club they’d be saying thanks for your service but bye- not us you lot seem happy with him when we really haven’t shown progression at all.

We’re not acting like a big club anymore so we deserve not to be one right now

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Spot on. I'm genuinely confused with these fans.

I've been supporting United all my life, nothing came close to make sleep since LVG times.

Even if we're losing a game with Ole, I can see the kids trying their best even if things aren't going well for them.

Spot on. I'm genuinely confused with these fans.

I've been supporting United all my life, nothing came close to make sleep since LVG times.

Even if we're losing a game with Ole, I can see the kids trying their best even if things aren't going well for them.

I mean come on how low has this fan base fallen expection wise. Happy to stick with a manager as the kids look like their trying’ Doris the tea lady can throw a bunch of kids in the team. Doesn’t mean she’s a good manager.

And don’t insult LVG by insinuating Ole is a better manager- a guy who got Cardiff relegated, then got sacked by them as he was so terrible.
LVG had actual tactical & management ability and won us a cup & got us to top 4 demolishing City & Liverpool along the way.

 

[lysglimt]

So basically a game-raising midtable team at present. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well most midtable teams don't usually have a record of 3 wins and 2 draws against the 6 best teams but…sure, you can call us that at the moment.

But we will get better - a lot better.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Well most midtable teams don't usually have a record of 3 wins and 2 draws against the 6 best teams but…sure, you can call us that at the moment.

But we will get better - a lot better.

We’re closer relegation than top 4.
And no you have no idea we’ll get better.

We could be doing so much better with a defect manager but no one seems to care so enjoy a mid table season going nowhere- We’re not a big club anymore, we have no expectations or standards anymore

 

[lysglimt]

I mean come on how low has this fan base fallen expection wise. Happy to stick with a manager as the kids look like their trying’ Doris the tea lady can throw a bunch of kids in the team. Doesn’t mean she’s a good manager.

And don’t insult LVG by insinuating Ole is a better manager- a guy who got Cardiff relegated, then got sacked by them as he was so terrible.
LVG had actual tactical & management ability and won us a cup & got us to top 4 demolishing City & Liverpool along the way.

He didn't do too well at Cardiff - but to say he got them relegated is a bit harsh. Ferguson would have struggled to save that Cardiff-team from relegation. When he arrived they had won 4 League-games in 22 games and were bottom of the table with a bunch of mediocre players.

 

[lysglimt]

We’re closer relegation than top 4.
And no you have no idea we’ll get better.

We could be doing so much better with a defect manager but no one seems to care so enjoy a mid table season going nowhere- We’re not a big club anymore, we have no expectations or standards anymore

And you have no idea we are not going to get better. All indications are that we are going to get better...

 

[Tarrou]

anyone but Ole FC under heavy attack the last few days

a few brave soldiers still holding out though

 

[lysglimt]

We’re closer relegation than top 4.
And no you have no idea we’ll get better.

We could be doing so much better with a defect manager but no one seems to care so enjoy a mid table season going nowhere- We’re not a big club anymore, we have no expectations or standards anymore

A simple question - did you think we were right to fire Mourinho ?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

A simple question - did you think we were right to fire Mourinho ?

It probably had to happen unfortunately, although only if we got a decent manager in- not Ole.

We should’ve given LVG another year for sure though

 

[Ikon]

We should’ve given LVG another year for sure though

I think that the club were probably concerned about the legal implications of being sued by supporters groups for causing death by extreme boredom....

 

[Bobcat]

Well, this big picture or grandscheme you talk about can only work with the right personnel in charge. Without the right personnel, we will simply not get to this destination you talking about. It's like that too in the corporate world of any business. You can dance around in circles pretending to make progress when in reality you aren't.

And I am sorry I don't see Ole, Carrick and Mike Phelan capable of challenging the top managers of the game. They simply don't have it in them. TIME does not automatically imbue anyone with what they don't have.

You talked about reactionary or short term perspective. I put it to you that most of the people who want Ole out are not petulant at all. They have assessed him over a long period to come to the conclusion that he is not the man for us. I for instance didn't expect him to win the league. Not at all. I loved the man and gave him a fair chance even when the club reneged on the earlier statement of 'finding a suitable replacement at the end of the season'. I expected him to have at least had a discernible pattern of play which we consistently apply. But alas! None. Just a mismash of diverse, ineffective styles week in, week out. Underdog status football at it's best.

The managers you talked about who failed(LVG and Mourinho) were on the downward spiral of their careers. Mourinho had already been effeminated by Madrid and his hubristic demeanour had vanished while LVG's highlights were last prominent 10 years ago(not counting the bland World Cup campaign with Holland). And moreso, because Mou and LVG failed, does that make Man United to be excluded from chasing top managers in the game anymore?
None of them were progressive managers on an upward trajectory like Ten Haag, Rose, Nagelsmann for instance. Those are the kind of managers we should be targeting and I can bet my life, they will do better here than Ole. It is not rocket science. They know what they are doing. Ole doesn't and I don't see any improvement at all.

The only reason why Ole is still managing us is because we are entrenched in sentiments as a club, he is the perfect Glazer puppet whom the match going fans will not turn on and we are not a serious football club anymore. If we were a truly ambitious club (others have sacked managers for less), he should have long been gone. Do you think Ole would survive at Real, Bayern, Juve for instance with a winning record like the one he currently has at Man United? The answer is a big NO. Because those are clubs who don't tolerate mediocrity. We do and that is why we are not catching up with them any time soon. Untill Man United as a club look beyond these 'We need another Fergie, Class of 92, United Way' nonsense, we will remain in the trenches of the European game. OGS is not a Manchester United Manager on merit. If it were, I doubt even Championship clubs would seek his CV.

Now whether ascending back to the summit of the European game as a club is of primary interest in your opinion is up to you to decide or whether the romance of 'It's Solksjaer again' trumps whatever we do as a club. But hear me, Man United cannot eat their cake and have it. We will either choose as a club to be progressive or choose to wallow in mediocrity and sentiments. One of this has been happening last seven years and if we keep going in that slope, there is only one outcome and it will take more than lip service to rise again.

Hey. What's next weeks lottery numbers?

No one is suggesting he will turn into Ferguson given enough time, the argument being put forward is that he needs time to sort this mess out. Pep who is seen as one of the greatest managers alive today didn't do to great his first season at City and that squad he inherited was so much better than ours its not even funny. Just look at his bench vs Liverpool at Sunday. Carson, Otamendi, Cancelo, Silva, Foden, Mahrez, Jesus. It insane. Add to that our fitness was shite, morale was at an all time low and we had several cases of bad conduct and bad attitudes among playing staff

Our wasn't a case of a well run club with a young, hungry and talented squad just waiting for a new manager to take them to the top, it was a complete shitshow from top to bottom and that takes time to fix.

Ten Haag, Nagelsman and Rose are no doubt exiting mangers, but Ajax, Leipzig and BM are not Man Utd. Real, Bayern, and Juve are not apt comparisons either. All of them have complete financial, structural and sporting hegemony over their respective leagues. Bayern for example have their main rivals as farmer clubs and constantly steal their best players, its ridiculous

 

[Shark]

He didn't do too well at Cardiff - but to say he got them relegated is a bit harsh. Ferguson would have struggled to save that Cardiff-team from relegation. When he arrived they had won 4 League-games in 22 games and were bottom of the table with a bunch of mediocre players.

Moyes, is that you?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I think that the club were probably concerned about the legal implications of being sued by supporters groups for causing death by extreme boredom....

Hahaha so funny. Good one. It’s much more exciting seeing us get dicked by Bournemouth, West Ham, Newcastle & nearer relegation than top 4. It was so terrible seeing us get top 4 & win a cup & demolish City & Liverpool. Outplaying then at Anfield. But yeh you’re right that was boring. Long live Ole!!!

 

[JustAGuest]

It probably had to happen unfortunately, although only if we got a decent manager in- not Ole.

We should’ve given LVG another year for sure though

Based on what? We scored the 10th most goals in the league that season.

 

[Ikon]

Hahaha so funny. Good one. It’s much more exciting seeing us get dicked by Bournemouth, West Ham, Newcastle & nearer relegation than top 4. It was so terrible seeing us get top 4 & win a cup & demolish City & Liverpool. Outplaying then at Anfield. But yeh you’re right that was boring. Long live Ole!!!

Being a match going Red since 1974, even in the darkest days of Sexton, we didn't have two home games, including extra time, with one shot at goal. Not what I spend my hard earned cash for...

 

[Rood]

anyone but Ole FC under heavy attack the last few days

a few brave soldiers still holding out though

I can understand that many fans still are unsure whether Ole is the right man, but I find it absolutely bizarre that some are so vehemently against giving him more time and can't just enjoy the fact that we have looked much better in the past few weeks

 

[Oldyella]

Here lies the problem - The keep Ole-people can't prove that he is good enough. The sack Ole-people can't prove he isn't good enough

But people saying they KNOW either way - are stupid. I think he is the right person for us here and now, I may even be pretty confident, but I could be wrong. But even if I am one of those who defend him the most, you will never hear me say "I KNOW he is the right person for us".

That's a fair point. Personally I am not convinced Ole is the answer long term but would love to be proved wrong. Voted for the sack but only because there was no option for both parties to call it quits at the end of the season. I like a lot of what he has done in regards playing youth and the football on the break, but that only helps when we either play the better sides or get an early goal and teams come at us.

Think we will just continue dropping points through the season when teams sit deep on us and see this boom/bust cycle through the season of looking great for a few weeks then slipping up and staying in mid table or thereabouts. Glad we have strung some wins together though, seeing fans call him a c**t etc left a nasty taste in the mouth.

 

[Ikon]

Here lies the problem - The keep Ole-people can't prove that he is good enough. The sack Ole-people can't prove he isn't good enough

But people saying they KNOW either way - are stupid. I think he is the right person for us here and now, I may even be pretty confident, but I could be wrong. But even if I am one of those who defend him the most, you will never hear me say "I KNOW he is the right person for us".

I am however willing to accept a mediocre season because I see signs of something that I am confident will pay off in 12-18 months. When you look at how good this team can perform on their day with a bunch om 20-23 year olds in the side and we have even bigger talents who are likely to be regulars in 2-3 years - I am not worried. And we will have off-days because our squad is thin and we have too many youngsters for it to be ideal.

But on our day we can tear Chelsea apart, we can (almost) beat Liverpool, we can completely shackle Leicesters attackers, we can destroy teams like Norwich and Brighton. But we are not good enough to do it regularly...YET!

I am in the keep Ole camp, whether he is going to bring long term success, I don't honestly know, but what I am confident of, is that Solskjaer knows the type of player that this club is sorely lacking.
6 years of piss poor decision making and short term thinking has created this mess, and it's not going to be properly sorted out in one transfer window.

Personally I have seen enough from Solskjaer to feel confident that he is doing the right things to prune this squad, Fellaini, Sanchez, Darmian, Lukaku, Valencia, Matic, Jones etc....
These players were never going to take United to where we want to be, and Solskjaer is clearly not going to tolerate them.
At this moment in time, I am optimistic that Solskjaer is putting the right foundations in place.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

I can understand that many fans still are unsure whether Ole is the right man, but I find it absolutely bizarre that some are so vehemently against giving him more time and can't just enjoy the fact that we have looked much better in the past few weeks

I always want us to play well & win of course.

it’s just some of us want the club to be proactive for once rather than reactive. He’s not the best manager we can get & we’re just wasting time & slipping further & further behind the best clubs in England.

 

[sglowrider]

I think that the club were probably concerned about the legal implications of being sued by supporters groups for causing death by extreme boredom....

No way. I would have given the Glazers more money. LVG had helped cure my insomnia. I slept for 50% of the matches.

 

[patty123]

So much nonsense in here with not a lot of actual meaningful sentences said. I wish you guys gave an actual decent manager like LVG all this leeway & time & not someone who got Cardiff relegated & then got sacked by then the next season.

Ah back to the old he "got cardiff relegated" yeah like no doubt one of you're demi gods klopp got his first team relegated and walked out on them when he realized he couldnt get them back up and be fired for it, like no doubt another of you're demi gods, pouch left the team in Spain rock bottom 9 points off safety when he got sacked.

I am glad most of you moaning today where not around for AF dire years as we would never had have the glory that attract a lot of well (be banned for what I think of them if posted), to our club, which maybe would have been just as good as the success a man being given time and chance after chance was given to bring it here.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

No way. I would have given the Glazers more money. LVG had helped cure my insomnia. I slept for 50% of the matches.

Hahaha so funny. Good one. It’s much more exciting seeing us get dicked by Bournemouth, West Ham, Newcastle & nearer relegation than top 4. It was so terrible seeing us get top 4 & win a cup & demolish City & Liverpool. Outplaying then at Anfield. But yeh you’re right that was boring. Long live Ole!!!

 

[Davìd Moyéz]

I don't see how you can be watching us at the moment and not think that the squad is improving and going in the right direction. All 3 signings have improved the squad, the likes of McTominay and Rashford are improving, defence seems to have been largely fixed, promising academy players coming through and looking up to it.

What is achieved by replacing the manager now? Yes, we're not going to finish top 4 and there'll be some more grim patches in this season but that's what you get with a young squad. Only a couple of quality signings away from being a very decent team.

 

[Eriku]

Hahaha so funny. Good one. It’s much more exciting seeing us get dicked by Bournemouth, West Ham, Newcastle & nearer relegation than top 4. It was so terrible seeing us get top 4 & win a cup & demolish City & Liverpool. Outplaying then at Anfield. But yeh you’re right that was boring. Long live Ole!!!

You pulling the same sarcastic joke twice in the same page isn’t particularly funny either.

And LvG was great for top 4 matches, but I’ve never been so bored out of my mind watching United most of the time. I much prefer the football now, if not the general results.

 

[Bestietom]

Hey. What's next weeks lottery numbers?

No one is suggesting he will turn into Ferguson given enough time, the argument being put forward is that he needs time to sort this mess out. Pep who is seen as one of the greatest managers alive today didn't do to great his first season at City and that squad he inherited was so much better than ours its not even funny. Just look at his bench vs Liverpool at Sunday. Carson, Otamendi, Cancelo, Silva, Foden, Mahrez, Jesus. It insane. Add to that our fitness was shite, morale was at an all time low and we had several cases of bad conduct and bad attitudes among playing staff

Our wasn't a case of a well run club with a young, hungry and talented squad just waiting for a new manager to take them to the top, it was a complete shitshow from top to bottom and that takes time to fix.

Ten Haag, Nagelsman and Rose are no doubt exiting mangers, but Ajax, Leipzig and BM are not Man Utd. Real, Bayern, and Juve are not apt comparisons either. All of them have complete financial, structural and sporting hegemony over their respective leagues. Bayern for example have their main rivals as farmer clubs and constantly steal their best players, its ridiculous

All can be sorted in just 2 more windows. Next season we will be better equipped to challenge.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Well most midtable teams don't usually have a record of 3 wins and 2 draws against the 6 best teams but…sure, you can call us that at the moment.

But we will get better - a lot better.

In your opinion. We'll see. Hopefully we will but all I am seeing is a midtable team - midtable teams win some, lose some, draw some which is essentially what our form has been so far this season.

 

[manunited1919]

What options does he have to bring on at No. 10 when we are down a goal and he needs to change something? If he doesn't buy a new No. 10 by next summer, then that's a fair criticism.

You see, in my point of view, that is part of the reason he needs to be sacked. He prioritized replacing Smalling instead of investing in midfield and attack. So not having those options for when we are a goal down is his own doing. Did you know Vidic back in March said we should give priority to midfield and attack, and we could wait to upgrade our centerbacks? He ought to know something about defense.

 

[manunited1919]

All can be sorted in just 2 more windows. Next season we will be better equipped to challenge.

For many years that’s what Liverpool fans were saying.

 

[ManchesterYoda]

We've been playing better recently and I think we are more than capable of finishing 5th and winning at least one cup competition. If we do this then it is an improvement on last season and so I would change my vote to KEEP. Also, next season our objective should be top 3, not top 4, because top 3 is the minimum standard set by Ferguson. Manchester United should always be on the podium.

 

[ostentatious]

You see, in my point of view, that is part of the reason he needs to be sacked. He prioritized replacing Smalling instead of investing in midfield and attack. So not having those options for when we are a goal down is his own doing. Did you know Vidic back in March said we should give priority to midfield and attack, and we could wait to upgrade our centerbacks? He ought to know something about defense.

By the same logic, would you not think that Ole ought to know something about attack?

 

[Bestietom]

For many years that’s what Liverpool fans were saying.

Yeah, but they got there. Patience now.

 

[lRed]

I always want us to play well & win of course.

it’s just some of us want the club to be proactive for once rather than reactive. He’s not the best manager we can get & we’re just wasting time & slipping further & further behind the best clubs in England.

It's painful to read your posts.
All you got in stock is negative and nocive, for you and the club.
Everytime I look at what you're saying you spread bad mood, please stop.

 

[Bobcat]

I always want us to play well & win of course.

it’s just some of us want the club to be proactive for once rather than reactive. He’s not the best manager we can get & we’re just wasting time & slipping further & further behind the best clubs in England.

Best does not mean the right one. No one in their right mind would suggest Ole is a better manager than Jose, their trophy haul speaks for themselves, but we had Jose and that turned into a disaster in the end. We will probably never win the PL with Ole as manager, not as long as Pep and Klopp is here at least, but right now we dont need a manager that grantees trophies, we need someone to steady the ship, get us back to basics and return the club to its roots, and imo Ole is a good fit for that job description

Take Big Sam for example. Hes an expert at making small clubs hard to beat and keep them outside of relegation, but i dont think he would ever be a manager for a team that challenged for the league. Pep on the other hand, is great at making his unbelievably expensive squads play brilliant football and manage big egos, but if he say took over Watford and tried to make them play the way they wanted he would end up in League 1

 

[lysglimt]

It probably had to happen unfortunately, although only if we got a decent manager in- not Ole.

We should’ve given LVG another year for sure though

Fair enough

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

A few good results/performances won’t change my mind.I hope I”m ultimately proved wrong,but I don’t think he’s good enough to manage at this level..

 

[lysglimt]

In your opinion. We'll see. Hopefully we will but all I am seeing is a midtable team - midtable teams win some, lose some, draw some which is essentially what our form has been so far this season.

I am 99% certain that we will get better - if we get good enough under OGS now that is another question which I hope, but don't know. But because of our injuries, lots of new players in a short-time and the fact that the majority of our players lack experience - Yeah I am pretty certain we will get better.

 

[Water Melon]

People rightfully question our performances under Ole. We do really seem to be playing at mid-table level, and that is exactly where we are at the moment. People rightfully compare Ole to fat Frank, as most of the posters were sure that Chelsea would sink as they had lost their best player, had no transfers and Lampard was considered to be a rookie compared to Solskjaer. The mere fact that we are well behind the chavs and foxes does show that we should be doing better. Unless, we improve dramatically from now on, I do not see us finishing in top 4 this season. And yes, I do believe that we should be there. I am all for our 20legend to prove me and many other doubters wrong, as this would be the sweetest a humble pie, I have ever had in my entire life.