I agree with the point about the players who left. I think they all saw where Ole and his gameplay was heading and jumped ship. We all know the likes of Rom and Fellaini were not performing to the fans' satisfaction but that was how Ole had set the team up. Herrera, for my money, saw something in Ole's plans that he didn't either agree with or like.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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I agree with the point about the players who left. I think they all saw where Ole and his gameplay was heading and jumped ship. We all know the likes of Rom and Fellaini were not performing to the fans' satisfaction but that was how Ole had set the team up. Herrera, for my money, saw something in Ole's plans that he didn't either agree with or like.
What I don't really understand are the people saying his 3 transfers show that he should be given more time. James has been good, certainly better than we all expected so that's an alright signing.
Maguire for the price we paid is just a bad signing. He's slow, him and Lindelof can't seem to play together and honestly he's been bad. Would we have been worse off with Smalling? Doubtful.
Wan-Bissaka is supposedly a great defender and sure he's good at tackling but I haven't been overly impressed by his defending so far. Offensively he's absolutely woeful though. Still, he might come good and we needed a right back but to say he's been good/great is a stretch for me.
I can't even be bothered to talk about tactics, statistics and all that other crap that shows how bad a manager Ole is, I guess I'm just confused reading about his so called great signings.
Maguire for the price we paid is just a bad signing. He's slow, him and Lindelof can't seem to play together and honestly he's been bad. Would we have been worse off with Smalling? Doubtful.
Wan-Bissaka is supposedly a great defender and sure he's good at tackling but I haven't been overly impressed by his defending so far. Offensively he's absolutely woeful though. Still, he might come good and we needed a right back but to say he's been good/great is a stretch for me.
I can't even be bothered to talk about tactics, statistics and all that other crap that shows how bad a manager Ole is, I guess I'm just confused reading about his so called great signings.
I have not checked your data, but if this is true it really is a brilliant presentation of statistics to make arguement. Presented the way you have, there really is not a discussion to be had.
Do that same argument with players and look how silly that sounds. Let’s not replace Andreas Pereira because we might spend £50m and end up with another Fred and have to replace that player etc.
What’s the plot in keeping him though, he isn’t a good manager, he’s not going to magically transform into one. It might take another 4-5 sackings to find someone who is good enough. Giving somebody time for no reason other than giving him time makes no sense.
Moyes was sacked because he couldn’t handle job, LVG because he was t progressing and was retiring in a year and Jose because he imploded. Ole should go because he isn’t good enough. The problem is the replacement not the sacking, they’ll probably screw it up again but sticking with what we have doesn’t solve anything.
I actually like idea of taking time to build a team but this being driven by Ole,Phela, Woodward and his football experts is actually pretty comical.
The whole idea of keeping him because there's nobody better available argument is so dumb.
Seriously, has everyone forgotten what happened when everyone said the same about Mourinho and we hired OGS himself as caretaker?
Seriously, has everyone forgotten what happened when everyone said the same about Mourinho and we hired OGS himself as caretaker?
Lampard needed several weeks to have Chelsea play good attacking football and the results are coming now. Ole's tactics is worse than Mourinho's. Why? Because he wants the team to press without having a lot of possession which will run it in the ground in terms of injuries and fatigue. We seem worse going forward than under Mourinho, partly because he didn't assassinate the "deadwood" in such a silly way.
Not much of a goal threat for Liverpool though. 14 goals in 155 games.
Realistically if we had Liverpool's midfield we'd be moaning that they're all not good enough with the exception of Fabinho.
Of course we would. Hell they was good without Fabinho. Took him 3 months to settle.
Which, in this burlesque tragedy we are experiencing, is pretty much how we planned our season last summer. Players left without being replaced and others (Mata) were given new deals or more "second chances" (Pereira) simply because the "right" players weren't available. Let's see if they will be willing to play for the manager who has United at the bottom half of the table next summer. Maybe they will, if the grand master plan is to make changes like replacing Pogba with Longstaff. The "right" players to match the manager's level, one could argue.
This is going to get worse if we persist with ole. The tactics and what's being served up on the pitch is dire. Great managers get the best out of limited squads and ole is barely getting a tune out of ours.
We can't score, create or even keep a clean sheet, but it seems a lot of fans are happy to give him time even though he has had nearly a year! We're not going downhill, we're falling off a cliff edge at the moment and ole is leading the decline.
We can't score, create or even keep a clean sheet, but it seems a lot of fans are happy to give him time even though he has had nearly a year! We're not going downhill, we're falling off a cliff edge at the moment and ole is leading the decline.
It is pointless though. Wanting to upgrade Pereira and then spend 250 million and end up with 5 Fred's is not what we want. Much rather we wait until a Scholes become available and spend 100 million on him
Because that would be utterly catastrophic. What kind of decent manager would want to take a job where the pressure to deliver is immense and you are afforded no time or patience to make meaningful changes. And giving someone time has value believe it or not. Say we sacked Ole tomorrow, the pressure on the new guy would be absolutely unreal. Like it or not, Ole is still quite popular among the fans at OT, so if the new guy failed to improve us instantly, the mood could get real toxic real fast.
Say if we end the season in mid table and Ole gets sacked. That would be a lot more comfortable for the next guy in line. First of all it would imply he is at least afforded a full season to make his mark, and secondly, the pressure to deliver would be much more reasonable since improving on that would be easy compared to some vague demand that only top 4/6 is good enough.
So yes, sacking and hiring managers non stop is in fact a terrible idea. AC Milan did that and now they have to resort to taking whatever ex player who is willing to put their head on the block, since no decent manager in their right mind wants to go anywhere near that train wreck
Even better.. let’s not sign no one until we find the new Cristiano Ronaldo.
You mean, like any other big club which has certain standards and goals (not sure we are that anymore)? Why do we always watch other managers come into good clubs and do a good job right away while we are still talking about this nonsense 3 year plan. Our fanbase is as patient as it gets, half of our fans are still happy to see the inept manager we have right now to continue in his job. Plenty of managers would be interested in this job as you need to achieve a bare minimum to have a support from board/fans. Dream job. Finish in TOP 4 and you have a job for life. Not to mention we pay well, we made Ole 3rd best paid manager in the league for some reason
There is a huge flaw with that logic though.
Ole is unable to improve players and he is unable to get the maximum of the players he has. If we're to wait that means we will be in deep trouble without even one bit of guarantee that even with new players he will be able to coach them and tactically put a good enough first team.
From what I see and Ole's apologists around here the solution is to buy more players, considering his tactics are shite and he has no plan B. But if buying players is the only way out, we can't expect to get 10 top players in their respective positions unless we spend a billion pounds in the course of 3-4 windows.
James is a good buy(which is on Giggs), but he is not supposed to be a starter. AWB and Maguire cost 150m pounds and we need to fill many other positions in order of that idea to work, whilst players like Pogba might go.
Sacking and hiring managers in AC Milan mold didn't work,because they persisted in hiring "Milan way" former players with zero credentials - much similar to what we did with Ole.
Disagree with no decent manager will want to join. Allegri has already flirted with the job and he is surely "decent enough".
Conte joined the train wreck Inter was last year, it's not like a big club is not appealing for any top manager out there.
Had to comeback. Ac Milan gave Seedorlf, Inzaghi and Gattuso a job and then a further array of crap managers. They are where they are because of poor managerial recruitment and lack of finances. I mean Gattuso got two years. How much more time did he need?
One cold hard fact is that Ole is an absolute nonentity in the European managerial game. Sure elite players are motivated by riches and glory, but the man who they will be going to work for must play some impact in the decision making process. Ole had a smart window in terms of who he brought in last summer, but unless you see him having the tactical and motivational knowhow to turn a non-superstar first team into winners then it becomes increasingly irrational to retain his services through these tough times.
Because despite Scholes having had been a generational talent teams have been known to achieve success without him. My point is if you can't get Klopp/Guardiola you don't pack it in and wait it out until another world class manager is available. You go for the next best alternative (e.g Nagelsman, Rose, Ten Hag etc) and utilize your financial edge to give them a fighting chance. Liverpool didn't surrender when we had Fergie and said we might just as well keep Souness because there isn't another Fergie around.
Even better. Comparing managers to individual players though is pointless. Plenty of shite players around who is hiding away at big clubs and is stealing a living, while a manager will always be in the spotlight. A player is ultimately only responsible for himself, while a manager is responsible for he performance of the whole club and a lot of that includes factors he has no direct control over.
You mean, like any other big club which has certain standards and goals (not sure we are that anymore)? Why do we always watch other managers come into good clubs and do a good job right away while we are still talking about this nonsense 3 year plan. Our fanbase is as patient as it gets, half of our fans are still happy to see the inept manager we have right now to continue in his job. Plenty of managers would be interested in this job as you need to achieve a bare minimum to have a support from board/fans. Dream job. Finish in TOP 4 and you have a job for life. Not to mention we pay well, we made Ole 3rd best paid manager in the league for some reason
Hehe. No. The modern United fanbase as a whole is one of the most entitled in the world. If you had said that face to face to say a Leeds, Newcastle, Blackburn or Spurs fan they would have laughed in your face at best, probably had taken a swing at you.
And no, if Ole gets sacked now i would imagine most managers would have serious second thoughts about taking that job. Ok, we could offer them a handsome compensation, but considering your two predecessors is a world class manager and a beloved club legend, that both got axed before their time then failure would be career suicide and it would also be a very realistic outcome since you would have to deliver the goods from day 1.
It's the Fergie hangover, people are also mistaken in that because it took SAF six years to get it right so the same logic applies to anyone. Its almost an insult to the old man's pre-United achievements. The same logic was applied for keeping Moyes and even he was doing better than what we are seeing.You mean, like any other big club which has certain standards and goals (not sure we are that anymore)? Why do we always watch other managers come into good clubs and do a good job right away while we are still talking about this nonsense 3 year plan. Our fanbase is as patient as it gets, half of our fans are still happy to see the inept manager we have right now to continue in his job. Plenty of managers would be interested in this job as you need to achieve a bare minimum to have a support from board/fans. Dream job. Finish in TOP 4 and you have a job for life. Not to mention we pay well, we made Ole 3rd best paid manager in the league for some reason
I would've relieved him ,and the staff, of his duties as first team manager during the last International break.
Madrid and Chelsea switch managers all the time and no one has 2nd thoughts about going there. You're making an issue of a non-issue. Big clubs could sack their managers every year and the next guy will be lobbying for the job. This isn't even opinion, it's reality. Just have a look around
Before their time? All the managers we fired got way more time than they deserved, including Ole. You would not have to deliver goods from day 1 but I think you must earn "more time" yourself. If you manage to play worse football and be 6 places lower than your predecessor, I don't think you should be given more time. We basically cannot win a game of football for half a year now, is it acceptable to you and you still blindly think he "deserves" 3 years?
True.
If Leicester win today we will be in much worse position compared to last year when Jose got the sack, despite playing fewer games.
I honestly dont think the 'pressure to deliver is immense' at this club. Not nowadays,anyway.
Fundamentally, I want to see enjoyable football with commitment from the players,playing on the front foot and dominating teams or at the least trying.
Fundamentally, I want to see enjoyable football with commitment from the players,playing on the front foot and dominating teams or at the least trying.
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The pressure for success is minimal these days because peoples standards are so low now. A few years ago no way would we be accepting what we're currently seeing.
Yes, imagine we had a striker who had a good record in the PL? Oh wait, we did. But Ole relegated him to the bench and eventually pushed him out of the club.
It made me laugh when the OP made the comment about not sacking Ole because we may not get a better manager and the players comparison. So I wonder why we sold Fellaini in this case? Why didn't we keep him just in case we do not get a player who can head the ball or chest the ball like him?
I am really shocked and gone beyond amazement that anyone would think we should keep Ole? What is going to happen if we keep him is that we would keep sliding down the table and then it gets more harder and takes much more time to get up the table if and when we get a new manager.
If we get a new one now we may still be able to to win the EL and also at the same time try to get into Europe at least whether it is CL or EL. At this rate we are not going to win anything or get into Europe for sure with Ole.
I am really shocked and gone beyond amazement that anyone would think we should keep Ole? What is going to happen if we keep him is that we would keep sliding down the table and then it gets more harder and takes much more time to get up the table if and when we get a new manager.
If we get a new one now we may still be able to to win the EL and also at the same time try to get into Europe at least whether it is CL or EL. At this rate we are not going to win anything or get into Europe for sure with Ole.
We did, my posts in the summer were critical of selling him when most were happy. Same with Smalling at the other end. I was right on both counts against the grain on here. Two bad decisions in the short term.
It doesn't change that currently Bournemouth aren't a side we can expect to just roll over. They have decent players, many at least on a par with ours.
Everyone just gets carried away now when we do win a game and massively overrates what we have, suddenly "Rashford is World Class", "McTominay can be the new Keane", "James is our best signing since SAF". Other teams have players that have good games too, we'd laugh at their fans saying similar things.
His underdog mentality is the end of him. Sets us up well against the top dogs but it just doesn't work against mid / relegation fodder. He's clueless the second teams allows us time on the ball.
We can't have a one trick pony managing us.
We can't have a one trick pony managing us.
The pressure on any Utd manager is immense and there would be less pressure on a new manager than a failing one like Ole. Virtually every team is regularly sacking managers yet people always want to take the jobs on its part of the territory. Those reasons simply don’t add up. Liverpool failed for years and years sacked club legends and look who their manager is.
Sacking manager isn’t ideal but allowing someone out of their depth to continue isn’t either and will do more damage. No one will shocked if a Utd manager is shocked because he has us playing at just better than relegation level. Fact he hasn’t been sacked shows this club is actually more tolerant than likes of Watford.
Things are not going to improve with this squad of players, so we just have to wait and see what happens in January.
Bring in some players or change the manager if we don't intend to back him. I will go along with whatever is best for this club.
Bring in some players or change the manager if we don't intend to back him. I will go along with whatever is best for this club.
They absolutely fecking don't. They just have a manager competent at his job while we have inept one.Fair enough. I agree with most of what you've said here.
I believe in most of our players - hell, I even think Lingards a good players but Ole will never get the best out of them. Thats where I don't agree with you.
Just like with Jose, people have managed to be brainwashed into thinking we're so much worse than we actually are. Our squad is shite, it is, but the lengths people go to make it sound as if its League 2 standard are laughable.
We do need more players though. The squad is better than 10th, but not by much really. I think many of our players get vastly overrated just because they play for Man Utd. Just look how our academy players get hyped to no end and when they actually has to take the step up to the first team they fail badly. Our midfield especially is a fecking disaster zone. With Pogba out we have exactly one competent midfielder and hes only 22, he should not be a regular at CM at that age.
Take Leicester for example that people love to use as a comparison as a "small club". Tieleman, Maddison, Albrighton, Mendy and Ndidi would walk into our MF and improve us immensely. So no matter who is in charge, we do need 3-4 windows and billions of pounds because the squad was and still is in a dire state
And i firmly believe ending up 10th with Ole and sacking him in May would be much wiser than sacking him now, because the pressure on whoever takes over will be much less and he will know he is at least afforded some time to implement his ideas as well. Remember Klopps two first seasons in Liverpool? There were Klopp sack watches on here and we were all having a grand old time laughing at him and how much of a failure he apparently was. And no, i am not comparing Ole with Klopp as the latter is clearly a world class manager, but sacking him now would be a really bad idea imo. And even though the squad Klopp inherited was pretty mediocre, he could at least field a team that had actual fullbacks at FB and actual midfielders at midfield, not 34yo wingers at LB and non footballer like Lindgaard, Fred and Pereira at MF.
As i've said. Sack him now and the pressure on the next manager will be unreal. It will also send the wrong signals to the players. There have been numerous threads on here about questionable attitudes and weak mentalities among the players, so that would basically tell them they are in no way responsible for their own sub par performances, its all the managers fault
His issue isn't that he has an underdog mentality, he is simply an awful manager. By all accounts he's decent with players and being chummy but I struggle to see how anyone, even the most loyal to him, can think we are moving forwards as a team or tactically. We play a paradoxical style of football, it's possession based counter attacking
He basically said no Jan signings. Can't think of a more naive thing.
We are clearly shit. Half due to having a not great team and half due to having a not great coaching setup.
So what does he expect when we buy no one in Jan? We will continue to lose week after week. We got 3 bloody wins in the PL FFS.
We are clearly shit. Half due to having a not great team and half due to having a not great coaching setup.
So what does he expect when we buy no one in Jan? We will continue to lose week after week. We got 3 bloody wins in the PL FFS.
Comparing both team's front six, how exactly are Rashford, Martial, James, Pereira, McTominay and Fred better than King, Wilson, Harry Wilson, Fraser, Lemar and Billing?
I expect a reply.
When?
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