And you okay in guaranteeing the job until end of the season just because we got 26 points in 13 games ?
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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I think he was highly critical of Ole last season, so this idea that he was basing it solely on 2 games is pretty daft. He clearly had lingering annoyances from the prior season in his mind.
Whether people agree with him or not is another matter, that's fair play. Some can say "we finished 3rd, so what's the problem". Others can say "we were 90 minutes away from 5th, so there were clearly bigger issues at hand on balance". In any case, he has been highly critical of the manager, if I remember correctly, since well before the first 2 games of this season. So he shouldn't really need to caveat in posts that he's not basing it on just a couple of games. The fact he's said this himself and posters still claim he's basing it on 2 games is nothing more than a windup.
Shame me when we actually do it end of the season or even when we are better than last year in terms of points. Until then, you have no right to judge me and my word is as good as your word or as bad as yours.
Ole didn't inherit the same team that finished second. Ole inherit 6 years problem team. Some players were past it (ageing) and some players forced themselves to leave the club despite manager wanted them to stay. How can you not see the difference?
Don't compare it with Conte. He didn't have the same amount of problems when he first took in charged. Look at what happened to him next follwing season when Cahill was ageing, Costa & Matic left, all of sudden his tactical style didn't work out anymore and from title winner to outside top 4. Your logic didn't apply on Conte's 2nd season because he lost Mourinho title winning players, the same thing happened to Ole last season.
Not that this is my argument, I'll happily let you both discuss but the bold bit is factually wrong. He inherited a team that was able to finish 2nd with 81 points the season prior.
You don’t be 6th and jump to league title right away. You make progress every season. First full season expectation is to make it top 4, second full season is to close the gaps between United and Liverpool, third full season is to challenge the league and finally winning it. We want high standard because this is big club but it’s unrealistic to fix 6 years problem within 1-2 years.
You think it's fair and reasonable to demand his sacking right NOW - based on results?
If so, you're simply wrong. There isn't anything fair and reasonable about it.
Not least because we're not in a scenario where a candidate is available who would obviously be a better choice given our squad, ownership, structure, etc.
He's ridiculous. Using possession to make conclusion whether the manager is more attacking or defensive is very stupid. His logic is like Hasselbaink's comment on Sky Sport yesterday.
Sorry bud, not biting it. Feel free to check the old posts between us on the same points (If you want to know my thoughts on that)
What are you on about? Last season was a progress from 18/19 season and you admitted yourself that you wanted him to be sacked because of that progress he made.
There is something very confident about him in the way he handles players who aren’t performing. He came in and immediately put Lukaku on the bench then sold him. Sold Sanchez as well. Lingard and Jones hardly even made the bench under Ole. Now Pogba isn’t even assured a substitute appearance in a game that we just won 6-2. He does all of this with almost zero controversy. Hardly anyone in the media questions it. I feel his man management is top notch.
One thing is for sure, anyone can have question marks about his tactical know how and the coaching set-up and staff at the club. The topsy-tuvry nature of games shows where improvements are needed.
But no one can argue
a) how likeable he is as an individual
b) how much more likeable he has made the team
I spent years struggling to feel a connection to the players as I had always felt under Ferguson. Wingers as full backs, players like Lingard, Smalling, and Jones featuring far too much for their ability, and players/staff with poor attitudes like Pogba/Mourinho casting a cloud over the mood of the club. It was an extremely frustrating time.
I love this team and love seeing this group of players together.
That’s a massive win, in my opinion, and it can’t be understated how much work has gone in to restoring that image and identity of Manchester United.
Not to mention the quality! 6-2 with Pogba, Cavani and VbB on the bench.
I worry about his ability as a coach at times and I worry that he doesn’t have the staff behind him, but I can’t argue that he hasn’t brought the fun and entertainment back to Man Utd, or that he hasn’t improved the squad massively.
Objectivity is important and this thread would be far better for it if both sides could have a nuanced debate.
I have been critical of him and worried about his ability. Nothing would make me happier than to be completely, utterly and ridiculously wrong.
But no one can argue
a) how likeable he is as an individual
b) how much more likeable he has made the team
I spent years struggling to feel a connection to the players as I had always felt under Ferguson. Wingers as full backs, players like Lingard, Smalling, and Jones featuring far too much for their ability, and players/staff with poor attitudes like Pogba/Mourinho casting a cloud over the mood of the club. It was an extremely frustrating time.
I love this team and love seeing this group of players together.
That’s a massive win, in my opinion, and it can’t be understated how much work has gone in to restoring that image and identity of Manchester United.
Not to mention the quality! 6-2 with Pogba, Cavani and VbB on the bench.
I worry about his ability as a coach at times and I worry that he doesn’t have the staff behind him, but I can’t argue that he hasn’t brought the fun and entertainment back to Man Utd, or that he hasn’t improved the squad massively.
Objectivity is important and this thread would be far better for it if both sides could have a nuanced debate.
I have been critical of him and worried about his ability. Nothing would make me happier than to be completely, utterly and ridiculously wrong.
The season prior is not 2019/2020 season, that's not his first full season. Please don't jump in if you don't know what we were discussing.
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How is it top notch? He is not getting them to perform by benching them and then getting them back in. Pogba been a massive problem. Basically those that perform are those he do not bench a lot. Fred, Bruno, Rashford, Lindelöf, AWB.
I think he probably deserves credit for Fred and Mctominay in midfield. They have taken many steps post Mourinho.
The rest I feel would probably look better under another manager.
What some fans fail to realise is that we are not the 1999 united or 2008 united at the moment. You called it lowering expectation, I feel it’s more of setting realistic expectations. We can set a target to win the champions league, the league and both cups. Although this is how it should be at united (for goodness sake!!), this will be too ambitious given the current club status. We can set these targets, not achieve them, sack the manager, appoint a new one, set unrealistic expectations, repeat... we don’t want that do we?
when i refer to a good run of form, i surely don’t mean to base my argument on it, but what i was trying to say is that we have to give credit to the manager for bringing the team to this state. Why only blame him for failures and not give credit when due?
under Ole, i saw good signings, good man management (players like rashford, martial, fred, shaw... all improved under him), good general atmosphere at the club, good football (lacks some consistency but there is a glimpse of what can be achieved).
i also still don’t agree with calling out players in public. He demands more from the players and says that. But i don’t want a situation where the manager says in a press conference that he thinks on behalf of a player.
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Come back when its 1500 matches with the same stats and then tell me its still bizarre post.
Of course he won’t bench players who are performing well. If Bruno is continuously playing well, Ole can’t just drop him to make him play even better. He can’t physically make a player perform better. That is up to the player’s personality to be fired up by being benched. The point is that the players in starting XI are there on merit to a large extent and if someone is disruptive to the dressing room, they are offloaded.
Take Pogba for example. He was undroppable and fully backed when Ole came in. Eventually he was dropped for not being up to the standards required. Him not performing might be down to his own reluctance, our system, or just his ability. That doesn’t have much to do with man management side of things though.
Things are going well. We can all have our predictions about whether they will continue to or not but at the moment we're winning a lot of football matches. You can't really sack the manager when that's happening.
I think this poll would benefit from visualising the trend. If we could generate a chart(think stock price history) who displays this it would give a better picture of the fanbase position over time. Maybe even with overlay/marking of important events? Dunno if this is possible with an automated function, or if it would have to be done manually?
@golden_blunder or some other admin know this?
@golden_blunder or some other admin know this?
Unbelievable first post and if I could give you a +1 I would. I'm a stats man too but not on football but Greyhounds.
However, to make a compassion with Fergie's stats at this stage is boarding on being locked up in a lunatic asylum. 
Once again great first post.
Pretty sure there’s no built in function to do this. So short of @Niall writing a new add-on (which pretty sure he doesnt have the time for) then it will have to be done manually by someone who’s got the time and skills. I agree that it would make interesting viewing though
Can I take that first bit now as you just accepting my point is right and Herrera running down his deal is technically the only difference?
I think each case is unique. I'm sure you'd find Chelsea fans on here who would argue Conte entered a much tougher scenario with a team who had essentially, judging by how it was seen externally, revolted against Mourinho. I'm also certain the issues you just highlighted above
would also apply to Chelsea. That's a separate discussion because you chose to focus solely on the players who were there when the manager came in and so I did that. The fact Conte did not do as well second season is also separate discussion and doesn't change the facts of who he inherited (which you kept insisting was the point of the discussion) and they hardly did terribly (70pts) they just had United and City's insane spending that year and, as I already said ages ago, his biggest mistake (in my opinion) was Costa.
Think @tomaldinho1 was clear in referring to what Ole inherited, which was actually a squad that did indeed finish 2nd in the season prior. I know what he was discussing (I tagged him in this to see if I was wrong just in case).
Oh, and I'll jump in and out where I please (remember, I respectfully asked you to ignore my posts and stop quoting me, which you failed to do after instigating a confrontational tone in the Arteta thread. I gathered from there we can mutually debate). I don't see any harm in debating the issue but I must say your tone on the forum is very defensive, it looks like you open yourself up to "ratty" arguments across the board.
This Wednesday we will know if Ole has what it takes to be successful. Carabao cup against Everton - none of our starters should be on the pitch.
This. I don't think he gets anywhere near enough praise for this. When you can steady a ship and keeping it ticking like this with no fuss - you're creating something huge.
Do we have the historic data of the poll stored somewhere though, or is that gone with he wind? If not it would be with start date when someone has the time to do it...
@Niall
Why is it relevant?
Let me ask you simple question. Were Valencia, Fellaini, Herrera, Smalling, Sanchez, Lukaku here last season?
If your answer is no then we conclude it that he didn't inherited any of those players last season.
That's not separate discussion. The fact that Conte didn't do well in his 2nd season tells you that the difference was the players not the tactic. Remember this is your excuse & logic.
Not sure if that info is stored actually as the poll is continually ‘live’. Only the boss man can answer that one. I suspect it’s not
The point of discussion talking about what Ole inherited in his first full season and what Conte inherited in his first full season. Ole had different players last season to 17/18.
There is no point comparing the 18/19 season when Ole took in charged mid-season as caretaker manager to Conte 16/17 full season.
You told me not to tag you and you don't want to have conversation with me. You need to stick with your word mate. Please don't tag me again.
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As I said, you couldn't follow simple instructions and quoted me in the Arteta thread a few days ago. I thought we could be broadly amicable after this, but evidently you continue to be insecure, seemingly trying to constantly compare dick sizes on an internet forum, and you can't even hold back on quoting someone when they asked you not to.
Perhaps I overestimated your ability to hold an amicable debate here.
It would just follow results anyway. Every loss or draw would be a spike of rage votes to sack him before a slower decline after winning a few games.
If it were following results, no one would really want him sacked this year because he's had tremendous 2020 form. The problem has been performance levels but even as someone doubting Ole I've been happily crediting him with multiple performances that have been great (Leipzig OT, Southampton, Bashaktahir, Leeds, quite liked Sheffield as we hit 3 past them, Everton wasn't an easy win but we deserved it, etc)
You told me you don't want to have conversation with me. You need to stick with your word mate.
I don't need to follow your instruction, you are not me, your word are not mine. But you should stick with your own word.
It's hard to do that when you quoted me again. I'll tell you what lets agree to ignore each other from now on - and this time you try to stick to it this time yeah? No need to quote me again barely a week after.
Also because you are rather textbook in your insecurities, I anticipate you will quote me with some dick reply. I'll happily not reply to that, so that the thread can continue on topic + you can serve your insecurities and enjoy a last laugh. I'm sure it will make your day. Ready, set, go!
Jesus wept. You are officially clutching at straws and now moving the timeframe to suit your argument. You have constantly mis-read, mis-quoted and misunderstood my posts to the point where I have constantly had to keep asking you to read my replies properly and to not go off on tangents - you specified the parameters to the discussion and you were wrong. i only just realised the insane volume of posts you are present in on this page, I implore you to take more time with replies because it's just clogging up this thread
I expected you to stay into argument/topic not moaning about me. I asked simple yes or no question and you couldn't answer it. Comparing Ole & Conte case is the most stupid argument and comparison I have ever read to begin with, and you started it.
Yikes
It's hard to do that when you quoted me again. I'll tell you what lets agree to ignore each other from now on - and this time you try to stick to it this time yeah? No need to quote me again barely a week after.
Also because you are rather textbook in your insecurities, I anticipate you will quote me with some dick reply. I'll happily not reply to that, so that the thread can continue on topic + you can serve your insecurities and enjoy a last laugh. I'm sure it will make your day. Ready, set, go!
You can always put me ignore, not very hard.
I could not care less about Wednesday nights game. Leicester on Boxing Day is the one we need to win
I don't know what the current percentage is as I've never voted but it definitely won't reflect the average fan if you asked should we sack him today.
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