Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[tomaldinho1]

Did you even check the stats or you think you can fool me around here because I don't know how the stats you gave me prove your point at all. Using the stats/links you gave me and your argument about possession, it still shows that Ole had more possession than both Conte & Mourinho.

Conte Chelsea 1st season had 53% average possession and he won the league with that less possession. 2nd season had 55% average possession.
Conte Inter last season had 54% possession. This season so far 55% possession.

Ole's last season 56% possession. Ole's this season so far 55% possession.

Clearly shows that based on your logic, the ones who are more cautious manager between Conte & Ole is Conte.

Quality of the players what Conte inherited & what Ole inherited was the difference mate.



We are not talking about your opinion of what you think about the players. We are talking about the players that Ole inherited and you used 17/18 squad as your argument.

Fact is that:
Lukaku was our main striker and top scorer with 16 league goals that helped us to achieve 80 points.
Herrera was one of our regular midfielder in that season, Fred wasn't part of the squad that achieved us 80 points so don't include him into what you called ''inherited 17/18 team''.
Sanchez, Fellaini, Smalling & Valencia were part of the squad 17/18.

Ole didn't inherit the same quality squad as the 17/18 season. The squad he inherited wasn't the same but actually weaker because he lost Valencia, Smalling, Lukaku, Herrera, Sanchez & Fellaini. Ole spent the money last year to sign Bissaka & Maguire to replace Valencia & Smalling which both were 17/18 regular right back & centre back. But he still didn't inherit the same quality squad as 17/18.

Conte on the other hand in 16/17 didn't lose any of the Mourinho title winning players. He used the exact same squad when Mourinho won the league and boosted with more signings.

Got it now? Ole didn't inherit the same 17/18 squad, but Conte inherited the same title winning 14/15 squad.

This is getting frustrating, you brought Conte's Inter into it by cherry picking a stat which I then disproved. I also never said a higher % of possession = an attacking team but I used it to highlight the similarity of Conte to Ole. I specifically asked you to look at how similar Ole and Conte's stats are because you said Conte was like Mou. Now you are selecting Conte's stats from only his time at Chelsea even though this also supports my opinion, I don't get how your are rationalising what you are writing, it categorically does not make sense.

My original point is Ole is a cautious coach and his tactical setup/style is not that dissimilar to Mou's. However, if Conte comes into the equation, he is much more similar to Ole than Mou. All you need to do is look at the stats to see this. Just to prove what I am saying re possession above I have also included Jose's stats from the season he finished 2nd and you can see the big difference in attacking stats, even though he has similar possession. As a reminder you went off on a tangent re possession meaning attacking, not me.

I consider the below to overwhelmingly disprove your point & show clearly how similar Ole & Conte are & how Mou is the most defensive by some margin.

Other Stats - Manchester United FC

Stat	Ole	Conte	Jose
Shots Per Match	14.74	14.63	10.16
Shots On Target / Match	6.39	6.11	5.71
Shots Off Target / Match	8.34	8.53	4.45
Fouls Per Match	11.08	9.97	10.53
Offsides Per Match	3.24	3.32	3.66
Average Possession	56%	53%	55%
Goals	66	85	68

On the players part, I disagree but in response I would just be retyping my last reply so please refer to that for my answer. Re Chelsea under Conte you're also completely ignoring Conte's use of players like Moses and also the importance of his tactical switch - you can clearly see how erratic they were (with the exact players you are talking about) before the tactical switch when they lost back to back against Pool & Arsenal. To essentially suggest Ole would have performed better if we had not lost Lukaku (who he sold and didn't want to start), Sanchez (who didn't even play under Mou), Herrera (who he directly replaced) and Fellaini (who he sold and didn't want to start) is inaccurate in my opinion.

Again, even though you have continued with the weird condescending sign off of 'Got it', I implore you read my replies properly before wasting time writing something that is irrelevant.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Could someone actually defend him without mentioning previous managers? It seems all the arguments to defend him are "under Mourinho we were bla bla".

There's a reason why those managers were sacked feels like a political populist discussion here, blaming everything on past presidents (managers) how he's eradicating corruption (deadwood) and nothings his fault since previous governments (managers) were garbage eventhough he's been in charge for years now.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Keep him. Let him see this season through and make a decision in the summer. He deserves the season atleast.

 

[FatherWolff]

Could someone actually defend him without mentioning previous managers? It seems all the arguments to defend him are "under Mourinho we were bla bla".

There's a reason why those managers were sacked feels like a political populist discussion here, blaming everything on past presidents (managers) how he's eradicating corruption (deadwood) and nothings his fault since previous governments (managers) were garbage eventhough he's been in charge for years now.

Ok. We are seven points of the top.

 

[Tom Cato]

Do we want to win the PL or the CL or we just want to qualify for the CL? Yes Manchester United should sell Maguire at a loss. He is not worth 80 let alone 40 for this side? I would say even Axel and Lindelof could be better than the current pairing. It is a team game and Maguire has no sense in leading a defence. Maybe if Ole takes the captaincy away from him he may be led by Lindelof. But not while he is the Captain. He is way too slow to operate a high defence line and it is exactly because of this and lack of a good DM that we are struggling. Ole does not trust Maguire and Lindelof to play with one DM.

"I'll take pulling numbers from the sky and just saying stuff for 200, Alex".

While you're absolutely within your rights to not want Harry to play for the club, I have something that makes this masterplan an impossibility: Harry can just say "lol nah". He's not cattle, the club can't just sell him without him saying so. Because he needs to sign a contract somewhere to actually transfer somewhere else. This isn't the NHL where you just sell the contract and "Good luck with life"

Axel has had one good game in a full year of football. Maaaaybe a bit early to make that call based on the PSG showing? Harry has had masterclass matches as well, let's not forget that.

 

[sammsky1]

Could someone actually defend him without mentioning previous managers? It seems all the arguments to defend him are "under Mourinho we were bla bla".

There's a reason why those managers were sacked feels like a political populist discussion here, blaming everything on past presidents (managers) how he's eradicating corruption (deadwood) and nothings his fault since previous governments (managers) were garbage eventhough he's been in charge for years now.

He doesn’t need defending. He is our manager, he’s doing well and there is no threat for his job. So what’s to defend?

 

[Flexdegea]

"I'll take pulling numbers from the sky and just saying stuff for 200, Alex".

While you're absolutely within your rights to not want Harry to play for the club, I have something that makes this masterplan an impossibility: Harry can just say "lol nah". He's not cattle, the club can't just sell him without him saying so. Because he needs to sign a contract somewhere to actually transfer somewhere else. This isn't the NHL where you just sell the contract and "Good luck with life"

Axel has had one good game in a full year of football. Maaaaybe a bit early to make that call based on the PSG showing? Harry has had masterclass matches as well, let's not forget that.

Your man clearly hasn't a clue what he's talking about but has the cheek to claim people haven't played football at any standard they wouldn't understand



Selling Maguire at a loss to then spend more big money on a susposed world class centre back is bonkers and doesn't make any sense. Be like a outlay of a loss on Maguire and then prob another world record fee for centre back while all the other inferior crap is still there.


Sounds legit

 

[LJJT]

The last 2 years have been some of my most enjoyable supporting the club over 40 years. Ole is taking us in the right direction, there are improvements in almost every department. He’s doing what he thinks is right for the club, he won’t get everything right of course but he’s never putting himself first like all the others have post SAF, which I think a lot of people don’t give any credit for.

 

[Mainoldo]

The last 2 years have been some of my most enjoyable supporting the club over 40 years. Ole is taking us in the right direction, there are improvements in almost every department. He’s doing what he thinks is right for the club, he won’t get everything right of course but he’s never putting himself first like all the others have post SAF, which I think a lot of people don’t give any credit for.

Very very bold statement. Wow.

 

[Tom Cato]

Could someone actually defend him without mentioning previous managers? It seems all the arguments to defend him are "under Mourinho we were bla bla".

There's a reason why those managers were sacked feels like a political populist discussion here, blaming everything on past presidents (managers) how he's eradicating corruption (deadwood) and nothings his fault since previous governments (managers) were garbage eventhough he's been in charge for years now.

26 points after 13 games will be 3 points behind the best point total after 13 matches in Premier League since 2007. We're currently enjoying the best away league opener record in PL history as well as the best away record in club history. We've on 10 consectuvie games on the road. No one is happy that we're not playing as great at home, there's room for improvement there. But know what won't help? Whining about it to the club and players.

I see absolue trash "fans" on instagram harping on Harry every time he posts something. People like that contribute nothing meaningful and suck the energy out of the room just by being present.

What do you want here? To compare him to the current season? Yeah ok, we're doing great with even more room for improvement. Happy? We're 7 points improved at this stage in the season compared to 2019/2020.

It's easy to defend Ole in the current season since there is a lot to be very positive about.

Thing is, if previous seasons and results are brought up in a discussion, of course other managers will be compared when the reference point are those years.

If you just want to go by results: Right now, very good.

 

[hobbers]

So that is how we are able to turn games around in the second half - time and time again - because we have awful fitness. Yes that makes perfect sense.

Easy to be fit in the second half if you dont register a single sprint in the first.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Ok. We are seven points of the top.

Is that supposed to be something good?

 

[FatherWolff]

Is that supposed to be something good?

Considering we are in a rebuild and have two games in hand, I’d say it’s not all that bad.
I’d go as far as say if you want to sack Ole now, you are either a troll or less gifted in the hat department.

 

[united for life]

The last 2 years have been some of my most enjoyable supporting the club over 40 years. Ole is taking us in the right direction, there are improvements in almost every department. He’s doing what he thinks is right for the club, he won’t get everything right of course but he’s never putting himself first like all the others have post SAF, which I think a lot of people don’t give any credit for.

Most "enjoyable"? Do you want to edit this word? I was expecting maybe in the last 7 years, maybe post SAF, but in 40 years? I have been a fan since 1996. I can say the club had more enjoyable days.

I'm not taking anything away from your club loyalty though! Probably, we're all excited/enjoying the fact that the club is going in the right direction under Ole. Well at least for those who voted for Ole in

 

[SAFMUTD]

Considering we are in a rebuild and have two games in hand, I’d say it’s not all that bad.
I’d go as far as say if you want to sack Ole now, you are either a troll or less gifted in the hat department.

How long until this "rebuild" finishes and we can start demanding results? it seems to me its just a lazy narrative to ease preassure.

You can go as far as you want mate, but wont be made a full member if you dont learn how to debate without insulting.

 

[FatherWolff]

How long until this "rebuild" finishes and we can start demanding results? it seems to me its just a lazy narrative to ease preassure.

You can go as far as you want mate, but wont be made a full member if you dont learn how to debate without insulting.

Demanding? Well, I’m not used to “demanding” anything. I’m more used to see the parts and go from there. Much like we are doing right now. If you can’t recognise we have an unbalanced squad, with several players from the managers you don’t want to speak about, it’s on you. No wonder you are unhappy and constantly moaning.

You where insulted by that? My apologies! Although a bit soft..
Im flagged as non promotable. Apparently you are the preferred level of poster. So beat me all you like with it

Still. We are seven points of the top with two games in hand. That is not even a half cup full or empty situation..

 

[UnofficialDevil]

The last 2 years have been some of my most enjoyable supporting the club over 40 years. Ole is taking us in the right direction, there are improvements in almost every department. He’s doing what he thinks is right for the club, he won’t get everything right of course but he’s never putting himself first like all the others have post SAF, which I think a lot of people don’t give any credit for.

That's why Ole inners really get on my nerves.

 

[MU44]

Ole the player and Ole the manager are two different things. One is a club hero and the other is woeful football manager. Forget the player, theres no room for sentimentality at the sharp end of football. He should be sacked ASAP because he isn't good enough and will never be good enough. I've waited until after a good result to avoid being accused of knee jerking.

I base this on four key areas you want a manager to excel in.

Transfers. He's not invested the money well and the squad is still totally unbalanced. No natural right winger and no striker. Of all the signings, only Fernandes has been a success.

Player improvement. Not a single player has improved noticeably with the exception of Fred. Martial for parts of last season maybe but he's back to his usual level this season. As a coach this is the most basic area and he's way short.

Results. Just a mish mash of good, average and very ugly. In two years that isn't good enough.

Style. No style and no improvement on the Mourinho era. I can count at least half a dozen performances this season that were on a par with Lille in 2005. Playing for 0-0's of late, negative and bailed out by fortune and individual quality. The side is arrogant and lazy, it's going nowhere.

His interviews comes across so badly it's impossible to watch. It's painful. He's caved in under Raiola's tantrum and it makes him look very weak. He's just everything you don't want in a world class manager. He's Woodward's man and he's part of the problem. No matter what happens above him he'll tow the line and plead for forgiveness when results get bad. Spineless.

Liverpool are going to walk their 20th title and then 21, 22 over the coming years. Unless the club gets it's act together much of Ferguson's work will be undone by an investment banker and Ole.

 

[LJJT]

Most "enjoyable"? Do you want to edit this word? I was expecting maybe in the last 7 years, maybe post SAF, but in 40 years? I have been a fan since 1996. I can say the club had more enjoyable days.

I'm not taking anything away from your club loyalty though! Probably, we're all excited/enjoying the fact that the club is going in the right direction under Ole. Well at least for those who voted for Ole in

Honestly I just got so hacked off with it all under Moyes, most of LVG and definitely Mourinho I’ve really enjoyed these last 2 years it’s not all been pretty but some of the highs under Ole in my view have been brilliant. Look forward to every game these days.

 

[united for life]

Honestly I just got so hacked off with it all under Moyes, most of LVG and definitely Mourinho I’ve really enjoyed these last 2 years it’s not all been pretty but some of the highs under Ole in my view have been brilliant. Look forward to every game these days.

indeed, football was boring under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho.

 

[onetwo3oclock4oclockrock]

Transfers. He's not invested the money well and the squad is still totally unbalanced. No natural right winger and no striker. Of all the signings, only Fernandes has been a success.

Player improvement. Not a single player has improved noticeably with the exception of Fred. Martial for parts of last season maybe but he's back to his usual level this season. As a coach this is the most basic area and he's way short.

Results. Just a mish mash of good, average and very ugly. In two years that isn't good enough.

Style. No style and no improvement on the Mourinho era. I can count at least half a dozen performances this season that were on a par with Lille in 2005. Playing for 0-0's of late, negative and bailed out by fortune and individual quality. The side is arrogant and lazy, it's going nowhere.

His interviews comes across so badly it's impossible to watch.

Transfer: Don't agree at all. Bruno been amazing. Wan-Bissaka very good, Maguire good, Ighalo a useful and cheap solution to cover for all the injured strikers last jan, Donny and Telles to early to tell. Cavani looks good. James the only bad signing. Overall I'm very pleased with both the ins and outs, and the squad is certently in a much better place than it was when he arrived.

Results: Best team in PL for the last 11 months. That is called progress. When we are the best team (result wise) over such a long period, we can't be as bad, and as inconsistent as many on this forum claim.

Style: Well, I find our football these days a lot more entertaining than under Mou, LVG and Moyes. Our counter play might be the best in the world (and i'm a sucker for efficient counter play..). Still need to improve other parts of the game, but we are getting there.

Interviews? I don't give a damn. Players seem to like him. Moral is up, and the dressing room is revitalised. You not liking his interviews is not a huge problem for the club.

Over all, things are going in the right direction. They really are.

 

[Foxbatt]

How long until this "rebuild" finishes and we can start demanding results? it seems to me its just a lazy narrative to ease preassure.

You can go as far as you want mate, but wont be made a full member if you dont learn how to debate without insulting.

For some people the rebuilding started after Ole took over. Before that they didn't care much. There are lots of people here who are supporters of Ole more than being supporters of Manchester United. The same with supporters of certain players instead of the club.

 

[RUCK4444]

For some people the rebuilding started after Ole took over. Before that they didn't care much. There are lots of people here who are supporters of Ole more than being supporters of Manchester United. The same with supporters of certain players instead of the club.

Absolute horse shite.

Why would any fan who loves their club support the manager over the club, that’s a nonsense, something that people with an agenda against Ole make up, posters who are too short sighted and wrapped up in their tantrums to see the reasons why some are willing to let Ole continue, for now.

 

[Plymouth Red]

The opinions in this thread are irreconcilable and I am coming around to a different take on Ole’s suitability.

I now see him as either manager of a club where the weight of expectation is much less or else number two at a top club. I don’t think he can grow to be an elite manager able to handle the biggest matches and opposition consistently, with all the tactical nous that needs.

 

[MattofManchester]

Player improvement. Not a single player has improved noticeably with the exception of Fred. Martial for parts of last season maybe but he's back to his usual level this season. As a coach this is the most basic area and he's way short.

While I'm not the biggest Ole fan, nor am I Ole out, I do think there are times players need to be held accountable.

Martial is a bad mention for me, because he's a player who hasn't improved under any of our managers. He's a very similar player to the 18 year old we bought.

What was the 18 year old we bought like? Had immense purple patches, with frequent losses of form.

He's 25 and we're still asking the same questions.

LVG, despite Martial loving him, couldn't improve him, Jose couldn't improve him, couldn't even get him to track back, and Solskjaer can't improve him.

His biggest change in that run last season was a noticeable difference in his demeanour.

I don't think it's fair to point to players like Martial and say that it's the manager's fault.

 

[lysglimt]

For some people the rebuilding started after Ole took over. Before that they didn't care much. There are lots of people here who are supporters of Ole more than being supporters of Manchester United. The same with supporters of certain players instead of the club.

Congratulations - that is probably the dumbest thing I have read in this thread - and you have some serious competition

 

[Tom Cato]

Ole the player and Ole the manager are two different things. One is a club hero and the other is woeful football manager. Forget the player, theres no room for sentimentality at the sharp end of football. He should be sacked ASAP because he isn't good enough and will never be good enough. I've waited until after a good result to avoid being accused of knee jerking.

I base this on four key areas you want a manager to excel in.

Transfers. He's not invested the money well and the squad is still totally unbalanced. No natural right winger and no striker. Of all the signings, only Fernandes has been a success.

Player improvement. Not a single player has improved noticeably with the exception of Fred. Martial for parts of last season maybe but he's back to his usual level this season. As a coach this is the most basic area and he's way short.

Results. Just a mish mash of good, average and very ugly. In two years that isn't good enough.

Style. No style and no improvement on the Mourinho era. I can count at least half a dozen performances this season that were on a par with Lille in 2005. Playing for 0-0's of late, negative and bailed out by fortune and individual quality. The side is arrogant and lazy, it's going nowhere.

His interviews comes across so badly it's impossible to watch. It's painful. He's caved in under Raiola's tantrum and it makes him look very weak. He's just everything you don't want in a world class manager. He's Woodward's man and he's part of the problem. No matter what happens above him he'll tow the line and plead for forgiveness when results get bad. Spineless.

Liverpool are going to walk their 20th title and then 21, 22 over the coming years. Unless the club gets it's act together much of Ferguson's work will be undone by an investment banker and Ole.

Are you a double agent? There is no way this is an actual opinion any Manchester United fans have. It's just too outlandish.

 

[Tom Cato]

How long until this "rebuild" finishes and we can start demanding results? it seems to me its just a lazy narrative to ease preassure.

You can go as far as you want mate, but wont be made a full member if you dont learn how to debate without insulting.

If you had been paying keen attention when the club appointed Ole you'd be aware that the club expects a title challenge in year #3 of a structural and personell rebuild of the club.

You can disagree with that ALL you want and call everyone at the club lazy, but that is what their perspective with root in realism is.

The lazy narrative is: "We should always compete". Yeah ok, sure. It's not like they haven't been trying now is it? What we've been doing hasn't been working, so now we're doing this. The club was even outspoken that we should expect bumps in the road, but here we are improving heavily of last season and fans are still flabbergasted that we havent signed Messi.

 

[georgipep]

Ole the player and Ole the manager are two different things. One is a club hero and the other is woeful football manager. Forget the player, theres no room for sentimentality at the sharp end of football. He should be sacked ASAP because he isn't good enough and will never be good enough. I've waited until after a good result to avoid being accused of knee jerking.

I base this on four key areas you want a manager to excel in.

Transfers. He's not invested the money well and the squad is still totally unbalanced. No natural right winger and no striker. Of all the signings, only Fernandes has been a success.

Player improvement. Not a single player has improved noticeably with the exception of Fred. Martial for parts of last season maybe but he's back to his usual level this season. As a coach this is the most basic area and he's way short.

Results. Just a mish mash of good, average and very ugly. In two years that isn't good enough.

Style. No style and no improvement on the Mourinho era. I can count at least half a dozen performances this season that were on a par with Lille in 2005. Playing for 0-0's of late, negative and bailed out by fortune and individual quality. The side is arrogant and lazy, it's going nowhere.

His interviews comes across so badly it's impossible to watch. It's painful. He's caved in under Raiola's tantrum and it makes him look very weak. He's just everything you don't want in a world class manager. He's Woodward's man and he's part of the problem. No matter what happens above him he'll tow the line and plead for forgiveness when results get bad. Spineless.

Liverpool are going to walk their 20th title and then 21, 22 over the coming years. Unless the club gets it's act together much of Ferguson's work will be undone by an investment banker and Ole.

You are either the most biased, agenda-driven and entitled "fan" I've ever seen or just a WUM. Either way, I think you should be "supporting" a different club. Your values do not resonate with this club's values one bit.

 

[Kajus]

Ole the player and Ole the manager are two different things. One is a club hero and the other is woeful football manager. Forget the player, theres no room for sentimentality at the sharp end of football. He should be sacked ASAP because he isn't good enough and will never be good enough. I've waited until after a good result to avoid being accused of knee jerking.

I base this on four key areas you want a manager to excel in.

Transfers. He's not invested the money well and the squad is still totally unbalanced. No natural right winger and no striker. Of all the signings, only Fernandes has been a success.

Player improvement. Not a single player has improved noticeably with the exception of Fred. Martial for parts of last season maybe but he's back to his usual level this season. As a coach this is the most basic area and he's way short.

Results. Just a mish mash of good, average and very ugly. In two years that isn't good enough.

Style. No style and no improvement on the Mourinho era. I can count at least half a dozen performances this season that were on a par with Lille in 2005. Playing for 0-0's of late, negative and bailed out by fortune and individual quality. The side is arrogant and lazy, it's going nowhere.

His interviews comes across so badly it's impossible to watch. It's painful. He's caved in under Raiola's tantrum and it makes him look very weak. He's just everything you don't want in a world class manager. He's Woodward's man and he's part of the problem. No matter what happens above him he'll tow the line and plead for forgiveness when results get bad. Spineless.

Liverpool are going to walk their 20th title and then 21, 22 over the coming years. Unless the club gets it's act together much of Ferguson's work will be undone by an investment banker and Ole.

I was going to reply to this but then realized that there's no way this is real . Good one though!

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You are either the most biased, agenda-driven and entitled "fan" I've ever seen or just a WUM. Either way, I think you should be "supporting" a different club. Your values do not resonate with this club's values one bit.

Here we go again, another top red telling anybody with a different opinion to go and support another club. And how come you get to decide who has the right criteria to support this club?

 

[georgipep]

Here we go again, another top red telling anybody with a different opinion to go and support another club. And how come you get to decide who has the right criteria to support this club?

Have you noticed the "I think" part in my post? That is MY opinion. And I have a certain meaning of the word "SUPPORTer" in my mind, that appears to be different from some people's. The same way I don't get to decide, you and the rest of the entitled Ole Out gang do not get to decide, thankfully.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

This is getting frustrating, you brought Conte's Inter into it by cherry picking a stat which I then disproved. I also never said a higher % of possession = an attacking team but I used it to highlight the similarity of Conte to Ole. I specifically asked you to look at how similar Ole and Conte's stats are because you said Conte was like Mou. Now you are selecting Conte's stats from only his time at Chelsea even though this also supports my opinion, I don't get how your are rationalising what you are writing, it categorically does not make sense.

My original point is Ole is a cautious coach and his tactical setup/style is not that dissimilar to Mou's. However, if Conte comes into the equation, he is much more similar to Ole than Mou. All you need to do is look at the stats to see this. Just to prove what I am saying re possession above I have also included Jose's stats from the season he finished 2nd and you can see the big difference in attacking stats, even though he has similar possession. As a reminder you went off on a tangent re possession meaning attacking, not me.

I consider the below to overwhelmingly disprove your point & show clearly how similar Ole & Conte are & how Mou is the most defensive by some margin.

Other Stats - Manchester United FC

Stat	Ole	Conte	Jose
Shots Per Match	14.74	14.63	10.16
Shots On Target / Match	6.39	6.11	5.71
Shots Off Target / Match	8.34	8.53	4.45
Fouls Per Match	11.08	9.97	10.53
Offsides Per Match	3.24	3.32	3.66
Average Possession	56%	53%	55%
Goals	66	85	68

I decided to show you just one picture of Conte at Inter and you decided to focus and make the big deal out of it and ignore the original discussion.

You can try to disprove whatever you like about Conte & Mourinho being similar but disproving that is irrelevant to our original discussion. The original discussion was Conte inherited title winning squad, Ole didn't inherit the same Mourinho 17/18 squad when we finished the league with 80 points, he inherited 6 years problem to fix. Stick with that discussion, don't get dragged out too easily.

You tried to disprove that original discussion about Conte inherited title winning squad by calling it tactical switch. So I countered it by making statement that Ole's tactic is also different to Mourinho. And your stats there clearly proved me that I'm right he is different to Mourinho. And if we go by your logic about Conte & Ole being more similar then this tactical switch isn't the difference here which actually disproved your point because both managers applied the similar tactical switch and are different to Mourinho. Tactical switch wasn't the difference, players were.

On the players part, I disagree but in response I would just be retyping my last reply so please refer to that for my answer. Re Chelsea under Conte you're also completely ignoring Conte's use of players like Moses and also the importance of his tactical switch - you can clearly see how erratic they were (with the exact players you are talking about) before the tactical switch when they lost back to back against Pool & Arsenal. To essentially suggest Ole would have performed better if we had not lost Lukaku (who he sold and didn't want to start), Sanchez (who didn't even play under Mou), Herrera (who he directly replaced) and Fellaini (who he sold and didn't want to start) is inaccurate in my opinion.

Again, even though you have continued with the weird condescending sign off of 'Got it', I implore you read my replies properly before wasting time writing something that is irrelevant.

Why is it relevant Conte used Moses for his tactical switch to our original discussion? A winger converted into wing back. Young, Valencia, Cuadrado, Jesus Navas, Vázquez and even Chiesa was used as wingback few times at Juve & Fiorentina. Is it special case? No!

I never say Ole would performed better, may be he could, may be he couldn't. What I suggested was you are unfairly using Conte's & Mourinho finished with 80 points to suit your argument. The reality is Ole didn't inherit the same 17/18 squad, but Conte inherited the same title winning 14/15 squad. Are you finally get it now?

 

[el3mel]

You are either the most biased, agenda-driven and entitled "fan" I've ever seen or just a WUM. Either way, I think you should be "supporting" a different club. Your values do not resonate with this club's values one bit.

Neither you, him, me nor anyone on this forum has the right to determine what the "club values" are.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Have you noticed the "I think" part in my post? That is MY opinion. And I have a certain meaning of the word "SUPPORTer" in my mind, that appears to be different from some people's. The same way I don't get to decide, you and the rest of the entitled Ole Out gang do not get to decide, thankfully.

Great. In that case in my opinion I think you should also go and support another club. Because I'm tired of people like you that think they are the better supporters, the only ones that know what's good for the club, the only ones that know what this club stands for etc etc. The fact that you call anyone with a different opinion part of "gang" speaks by itself.

 

[georgipep]

Great. In that case in my opinion I think you should also go and support another club. Because I'm tired of people like you that think they are the better supporters, the only ones that know what's good for the club, the only ones that know what this club stands for etc etc. The fact that you call anyone with a different opinion part of "gang" speaks by itself.

Same way as you called me "top red"?

I suggest you stop and think for a second what the word supporter actually means and entails.

 

[georgipep]

Neither you, him, me nor anyone on this forum has the right to determine what the "club values" are.

Actually, the 'corporate' ones are already defined here: https://www.manutd.com/en/club/club-charter
But that's not what I had in mind. I was more thinking about what Sir Alex said in his farewell speech. You can either listen to it or read it, if you need reminding.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Same way as you called me "top red"?

I suggest you stop and think for a second what the word supporter actually means and entails.

He we go again. You know what the clubs values are, you know what the word supporter actually means.. You really are impressed with yourself aren't you.

 

[el3mel]

Actually, the 'corporate' ones are already defined here: https://www.manutd.com/en/club/club-charter
But that's not what I had in mind. I was more thinking about what Sir Alex said in his farewell speech. You can either listen to it or read it, if you need reminding.

That's good and all but no one on the internet has the right to tell someone else if he's following the "club's values" or not. You're like him and me, just some posters on an internet forum and nothing else. No offense but that's really a very arrogant way of talking.

 

[SAFMUTD]

If you had been paying keen attention when the club appointed Ole you'd be aware that the club expects a title challenge in year #3 of a structural and personell rebuild of the club.

You can disagree with that ALL you want and call everyone at the club lazy, but that is what their perspective with root in realism is.

The lazy narrative is: "We should always compete". Yeah ok, sure. It's not like they haven't been trying now is it? What we've been doing hasn't been working, so now we're doing this. The club was even outspoken that we should expect bumps in the road, but here we are improving heavily of last season and fans are still flabbergasted that we havent signed Messi.

Please show me some link to that youre quoting about challenging until the third year, because I haven't seen it.

Improving heavily? Thats a huge statement, were out of the UCL and if we keep the same form we'll get around 73 points. Thats 7 more points than last season, hardly "improving heavily".

We should always compete is not a lazy narrative, its what should be expected from this club. Im sorry but fans like you that find acceptable to enter a process that requieres 3 years before "challenging" is what makes it so easy for the Glazzers to keep being financially successful while the club is sink on mediocrity.