The only point in pointing that out is to say they are on similar trajectories, aka, similar managers. Which they are not.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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The only point in pointing that out is to say they are on similar trajectories, aka, similar managers. Which they are not.
Mourinho in his first Chelsea stint.
Mourinho in his second Chelsea stint.
Conte at Chelsea after finishing 10th
Pep at City after they had barely beat LvG boring feck of a team to top 4.
You’re right, there’s not a single example, there are plenty.
Nope, the point is simple. That Poch and Klopps teams both took time and patience before they found proper title challenging consistency.
Thought it was pretty interesting to see how similar all 3's league record actually was. They're all pretty much identical. But I guess we all see what we want to see.
The rare examples are underperforming recent title winners or Leicester, not teams that have been nowhere near a title challenge for 7 years.
yes, I’m sure Southampton will be in the champions league next year. Probably they’ll also win it.
all the respect to Hassenhutl for the work he’s doing. But let’s not make such comparisons. They are going through a good period, but it doesn’t mean we conclude they are a better team than us
The League Cup is second rate but the Europa League is the third most difficult trophy to win after the CL and league title. It's worth more than the FA cup for sure. We only played in it a couple of times under SAF in more recent times and we certainly weren't playing the kids, we just got battered by Bilbao.
We'll only have solidified our place in the top four if we're comfortably there, not scraping in on the final day relying on luck and it almost not being in our own hands. That's why any points haul less than 70 this season should be counted as a failure on Ole's part and a sign of no real progress. And that's before we get to whether the performances and style of play have gotten better or worse and how much luck we've had to ride.
People just like to forget about Jose it seems.
Ole has a third place and three semi finals. Zero trophies. Jose has a second place and three finals. Two trophies.
Ole is not even close right now.
6pts off top spot with Two games in hand as things stand.
Then let's give Ole the same amount of time as jose then. Until the end of the season to have a true comparison.
If you sign a 4-5 established players (in their late 20s or early 30s) - yes you get to the top quicked, but it doesn't solve anything long term. And that is very much what Inter has done. Yes they have signed or two others of course, but they have a squad where 13-14 players are 28-35 years old. It might pay off this season, but it's horribly wrong in the long term.
Never said we played the kids in Europa, just said we never took it seriously under Fergie.
You can say it is third most difficult. Maybe but it is the loosers competition so second rate by definition mate, no matter how difficult it is.
On the other end the FA cup is the oldest football competition in the world and the best teams in England play it, so on paper and in term of history, much better than Europa to me.
In the trophy cabinet, I prefer to have it then Europa. Worth more to me and football I think...unless it is all about money (Europa exist because of it...)
No one is questioning that Hasenhutl has done great at Southampton, but 6 months ago - everyone said the same thing about Chris Wilder. But considering where we will be if we win against Sheffield United tomorrow, let's not pretend we are in problems. Oh and btw - what would the reaction have been if we had been torn to shred in 30 minutes - like we did to Southampton ?
Eh... Yes? No?
Yeah probably, but it will be progress to solidify top 4, don't you think ? It means we are getting better and more consistent and allowing us to build a better team.
Of course I would like us to win the title straight away and it is still possible this year but after years between fourth and seven places, I think going up in the table will be a progress.
The irony about it all is that a lot of people want Ole out when it is the first time after the third of the season gone that we are still in a title race since SAF. So should we start it all over again right now ?
9th
I think he will definitely get it. Unless it goes extremely pear shaped.
Jose also got us past the group stage of the CL.
If though we win nothing and fail to get in top 4, he will 100% deserve the sack.
That's more than valid.
With opportunity to go level at top when we've played same number of games as everyone else.
Trumps my First-Class Honours degree in Law but we all can't be perfect
The results in these last few days could help change the mood if we do a job at Sheffield United tomorrow. If we don't, I'm sure this page will be buzzing again
The problem with that season was that was his "peak season" with us and we were still miles off City. Jose's MO is to come in and work his short term magic and win some trophies and then feck off/get sacked when it all comes tumbling down.
If he was building a new, up and coming team, getting 2nd would feel great, but with the strategy we had then it just felt like a failed opportunity
The game in hand has really messed with people's heads. I bet this thread would be half as long this season if we had 3 points against Burnley in the bag. Then again even longer if we'd lost.
Villa could also go top/2nd with their 3 games in hand though.
I reckon this thread would be just as long, even with a 5-0 win against Burnley. The only real constant in an otherwise very unpredictable 2020
No because half the posts about league position alone would be gone.
Beginning of the season my thinking was either title challenge or better playstyle, and he's in prime position to do the former.
We haven't looked very convincing thus far which is a worry, but if we actually win our 2 games in hand and stay in 2nd for the remainder of the season, I think he should stay regardless of how we play.
We haven't looked very convincing thus far which is a worry, but if we actually win our 2 games in hand and stay in 2nd for the remainder of the season, I think he should stay regardless of how we play.
It definitely does. Two seasons ago, 66 points was shit because we ended in sixth, meaning that five teams got more than 66 points. Last season, 66 points was great because only two teams got more points (with a little bit of help from Leicester dropping 34 points in 17 games and Chelsea dropping 21 points in the same amount of games). Now we have people saying that they can only judge if we've progressed once the season's wrapped up, meaning that they'll not judge our progress on what is actually happening on the pitch, but rather based on how the 19 clubs not called Manchester United do.
Nar, it’s more that clubs have started dropping points like crazy, making that game in hand worth so much more.
After gameweek 9, winning it meant 6th, whereas beating Sheff U tomorrow would make that game in hand worth 2nd/3rd depending on Villa.
Only counts for something if he wins them both. Sheffield United and Leeds. He should win both quite easily.
See if that happens.
Did you shoot your load early here?
That's what I was thinking. Pretty weird how people keep talking about the Burnley match if it's going to be played tomorrow. Best not to put it in consideration till its time comes, because it's not any time soon.
Yes he will deserve the sack at that point. Not before then though.
Not now but if we lose tomorrow there would be a lot of pressure on him.
I don't think Poch is the man and that's why I feel it's better to wait for a while.
I don't think Poch is the man and that's why I feel it's better to wait for a while.
None of those represented similar starting positions, nor similar approaches. Of course, United could have tried to just make a handful of high-profile player purchases, bring in an experienced manager and gone for broke with that. In other words, try the same thing they did with LvG and Mourinho. You know, the same Mourinho who failed to do in United what he did in Chelsea, which possibly tells you something about the quality of the respective squads involved.
Instead, they opted to rebuild with the aim of creating a team with an emphasis on young players, that could truly contend 2-3 seasons ahead, and continue to do so for several seasons. In my book, that was the right choice. And if you're taking that path, it takes time.
Jose was a failure for driving the club into his usual last season downward spiral, for painting himself into a corner with both the squad and the ownership, for imposing a style of play that left you groaning even when we won, for thinking himself bigger than the club, for criminally neglecting the academy and for ending up in a place where it was obvious there was nowhere further to go with him at the helm. Not for his results, which rank second only to SAF, despite the lack of a title.
His record is better than Oles. And it ought to be, considering that winning the next game was his total focus, whereas Oles task is to build something for the future. We'll see what it looks like in a year or two.
I honestly like in general how many people supporting Ole are the first ones who try to lower the expectations and tell everyone we're not as good as Liverpool, City and Chelsea. I guess since you support a manager you'll be certain he's capable of landing a big prize thus you support him but it seems the opposite, they believe top 4 is good enough progress and we're not capable of winning the league any time soon, so that if we win it's a massive overachievement and if we don't and get top 4 it's more in the line. Weirdest aspect of supporting a manager I have seen if you ask me. Sure some aren't that but there're definitely many of Ole supporters here who are the first to jump in to control any high expectations.
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I would say that it's waaaaaaay weirder to be so Ole out that you start to think that Martial and Rashford are on the same level as the likes of Salah, Mane, Son and Kane. Or that our midfield, apart from Bruno, is great. Or that our bench is great. I'm not saying that you specifically believe all of this, but I've seen several posters suggest something similar.
This is the way I see it(on paper):
1. Liverpool
-- big gap --
2. City
-- small gap --
3. Chelsea, Tottenham and us (it's so even that it's impossible to give a definite answer).
I think most people, whether they are Ole in or out, can at least sort of agree with this. Therefore, in my opinion, 2nd is a small overachievement. 1st is a big overachievement. 3rd to 5th is right where we "belong". 5th can be considered a failure because it means that we failed to outplace both of our "closest rivals"(Chelsea and Spurs). 4th is dead average.
Only Liverpool are better than us and any other team at the moment. City are extremely overrated here based on their past form 2 years ago, Chelsea have been underwhelming for the money they had spent and Spurs have good attack but rubbish defense and terrible midfield. 2nd/3rd should be a good target to achieve this season.
But why would anyone support a manager when he doesn't even believe he can win the league with these players ? I mean face it or not, this is the squad we're going to have for the few next years and it's not going to change drastically. If you support a manager, you should absolutely believe he'll win us the league. Supporting the manager by handling expectations and telling people to be content with top 4 is just a pretty weird perspective when I think about it.
Theo Walcott has scored 3 (or is it 2?) Goals all season.... The standards these supposedly superior managers to Ole are held to are ridiculously low.
And all this hyperbole too, after they dropped points from a winning position yet again
Well said mate. We also tend to be overly moved as a fanbase over decent performances against mediocre teams.
teams. A Sheffield United win today will generate a few comments around believing in Ole and trusting the process etc...Rome wasn't built in a day and so forth. You get the idea.
Over the last 12 months some have stated were the best team points wise. Were not the best team with the most points we are 3rd. Funnily enough Liverpool are top and City 2nd. So were exactly were we finished last season. To improve we need to go above City or whoever finishes 2nd. Saying that if Ole gets top 4 he will still be in a job next season.
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