Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[90 + 5min]

What are people's expectations for him this season, considering how the season has gone? I have actually revised my expectations to a title challenge because the league has not gone the way I thought. Originally, I thought Liverpool would be clearly the best team in the league (albeit, I did think they would get a lower points total), so that is what I originally built my expectations around. That does not seem to be the case, so they need to be revised.

I feel if Tottenham is able to challenge for the title, there isn't really much of an excuse for us not to do the same. They have spent far less than we have and their manager has had less time in the position, so it sort of undermines those arguments. You also have to consider Southampton, who have gone around quietly becoming a very consistent team since lockdown ended (and even beforehand) and have ranked joint fourth since lockdown. They have become real contenders for top four, which does make you wonder whether merely getting top four is enough for us anymore.

Man City	44​
Tottenham	43​
Liverpool	42​
Manutd	41​
Southampton	41​
Chelsea	40​

Judging by the table above, the title is there to be challenged. It would be a failure not to even put in a challenge.

In his second season people are expecting following:

38 wins in Premier league with 100 goals for and 37 clean sheet.
Winning Champions League, TheFA cup, League Cup, Australian League and Serie A

Therefore, there is Ole this, Ole that sacking threads.

Hope in vain that was one of his last few press conferences. However I see him here next season even if we fail to get top 4.

I hope that we win every game from now until end of the time so we don't have to sack anybody.

 

[Polar]

You are missing my bloody point. It does not take two years to build momentum to fight for a title like the original posts made out.

Inter done it in a month regardless of if they won it or not. They are on a title chase right now if you ask their fans. If you ask our fans we are halfway through a rebuild with the priority being top 4. So no we are not the same. Why are you telling me about their easy games?

Perhaps it is easier to rebuild a team in Italy? The level of Serie A is very very low compared to what it was, and it’s much easier and cheaper to reinforce the squad. I’m not sure how many players Conte has added to the squad, but I have a feeling it’s quite many.

 

[Eriku]

Wasn't aimed directly at you, just a general observation.




That's the problem with text, rhetorical questions can be missed construed.

Time is an issue. This is Ole's third season, second full and you would have hoped to see a 'philosophy' (token word) by now. He has done good work in dumping a lot of the deadwood but that surely is the easiest part of the rejuvenation of the Club.
His transfers, Bruno aside, have been hit and miss. Results have been hit and miss. If he is given more time can he move us on to the next level?

It's irrelevant anyway, there's no chance the board will sack him yet, quite right too. As you alluded to earlier, the League is looking good if we take the points tomorrow and the game in hand we'll be right among the contenders.

Personally, I have doubts that Ole is good enough to make us consistent winners although I do like the guy.

Context provided all the clues needed, but I agree, text is treacherous.

For the record, I am for giving Ole more time, but it’s not as if I’m convinced he can make us winners again.

 

[el3mel]

I suppose the club itself is best qualified to assess the manager. What do really we, the fans, know. It’s funny to discuss Ole in or out, but in reality we are the most clueless of everyone connected to the club.

It’s quite easy. As long as Ole stay “Ole in people” are right, and if Ole gets fired “Ole out people are right.

I don't really care about proving my opinion right and I doubt people who want him out will lose their mind if he manages to win us big prizes. I'm ready to change my opinion whenever this happens. No problem for me.

 

[darko]

Since September. 25 points is the least any team leading the league has ever had after 12 games through the history of the PL. Also, the distance from 1st to 10th is the least it has ever been in PL history after 12 rounds. Tottenham and Liverpool currently project at 79 points, which would be the lowest number of points anyone has ever won the PL with, 2 less than Leicester in 2016 and 20 less than Liverpool had last year. So far, this is a uniquely even season.

See United's Treble winning season EPL point total of 79 points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998–99_FA_Premier_League

 

[Widow]

Context provided all the clues needed, but I agree, text is treacherous.

Clearly not But I don't want a childish argument on the internet either.

For the record, I am for giving Ole more time, but it’s not as if I’m convinced he can make us winners again.

It sounds like we are singing from the same hymn sheet!

 

[Mainoldo]

Because maybe COVID is there for everyone. Spending of every club has been impacted.
Add to that It was a 2 team league then and it was easier to break through the barrier. Now, with the money in the league, there are 3-4 teams competing for the title, 6-8 teams fighting for top 4 and 10 teams competing for European football

But even with it being open. We aren’t contending because?......

I’m not even bashing the guy can we just admit that he’s not the level to win a league. Like I think we are all grown enough not to have to lie on an Internet forum just to support our own agenda’s. I love Pogba but I can admit he hasn’t been consistent. You can love Ole and still admit if we had even Jose Mourinho right now with this team we would feel more confident about being in a title challenge.

I don’t need the context behind my Jose point.. the statement is subject to things being exactly how they are right now.

 

[Mainoldo]

Sorry, but this discussion is now at a point where there's not much more to do than note that you're insisting on making a judgment based on an understanding of how reality works that is, as far as I can understand, just completely wrong, and for which you're not really able to offer any serious arguments.

It’s okay. Sorry I ruined your little novel.

 

[Mainoldo]

Perhaps it is easier to rebuild a team in Italy? The level of Serie A is very very low compared to what it was, and it’s much easier and cheaper to reinforce the squad. I’m not sure how many players Conte has added to the squad, but I have a feeling it’s quite many.

He has but with that in mind we have had a greater budget than Our rivals so it’s all relative don’t you think? I still don’t know why we needed a slow CB and a RB who can’t cross to play the “United way”. I’m pretty sure Conte knew why he needed Ashley Young though.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Hope in vain that was one of his last few press conferences. However I see him here next season even if we fail to get top 4.

So do I.

 

[Redfrog]

If we win the title, wich is possible given the state of the league, a lot of people here would like Ole to get fired anyway.

When I read some comments like, hire Poch now and we have a chance for the title, I cannot believe it. Who fired a manager because he put the club in a place where je can win the title ? That is mental. Never heard that kind of twisted logic.

With what we can see players like Ole, otherwise he would have been fired long time ago. So sacking him in the middle of the season will probably win us the title. It is sucide.

I am not saying Ole is the next SAF. But I think he did good til now by clearing deadwood and give us some hope. We are far from a turnmoil right now. Lets see where we finish, how this crazy season will pan out and assess then.

Yeah, I know, people will say, I don't have ambition, the expectations have been lowered.
But I think I am realistic. That is a team who never finished in the top 4 two times in a row for 7 years ! And people are expecting immediat titles and champions leagues !

I say if we finish in the top 4 this season too, Ole would have done the best job since SAF. Of course, the goal is not top 4 but it will be a tangible progress de can build on in the route to win the league.

 

[Bobcat]

Pep immediately comes to mind, at City as well as Bayern. While it took him longer at City he won the league by the end of his second season. That time involved him moving on a fair amount of the old squad while instilling his philosophy (which many people, myself included thought wouldn't translate to the PL).

We're past that point with Ole and there are still huge questions marks over his ability and what exactly he is trying to achieve with this squad. We often look directionless, and by this point we most certainly should be seeing some green shoots of progression and these lingering questions certainly shouldn't still being asked.

All doubts over the manger are well founded, and while there have been some positives during his tenure, there are far too many issues to see any long term progression under him.

Not comparable. The squad he took over was miles ahead of what Ole inherited, and the core of that team had played together for years.

Silva and Aguero were the key players besides KDB, and now that they are missing theyve dropped a level or two

 

[sammsky1]

Oh so all those teams were just doing some big long term building right? I mean Chelsea’s rise was all planned from Hoddle onwards.. You probably think they planned Roman to?

You Ole defenders chat some rubbish.

Nope. Just facts.

 

[georgipep]

It had been at least a year since Pellgrini won the title. The season before Pep joined they narrowly got top 4, beating us on GD. So no not wide of the mark, at all.

He completely changed the way Bayern played, again, something that apparently requires multiple seasons to implement.

My bad on City, indeed they finished 4th. Interestingly he still had Kompany, Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne, David Silva and Fernandinho (not even mentioning the rest of the team that he used and sold) in that team. I can't, for the life of me, see how that "inheritance" is comparable to the team Ole got from Mourinho, but ok.

As for Bayern, you are correct. He took them a step down. From treble winners to a team that couldn't win the CL. I guess that can be seen as an improvement in your mind.

 

[Roane]

Just a question, based on what some folk have said.

Are kid season sackings really so bad?

I mean there is the obvious new manager bounce but looking at Bilic being sacked and Sam being bought in (not Sam's first rodeo either) wouldn't it seem to suggest that mid season sackings can be beneficial?

Or would you say that's just at the bottom of the table?

 

[FatherWolff]

Our league form is still not sackable though.

Far from it, far from it! We are in excellent position the way I see it.

In his second season people are expecting following:

38 wins in Premier league with 100 goals for and 37 clean sheet.
Winning Champions League, TheFA cup, League Cup, Australian League and Serie A

Therefore, there is Ole this, Ole that sacking threads.


I hope that we win every game from now until end of the time so we don't have to sack anybody.

But, but.. He relegated Cardiff! His was given a war chest of 7,5 million to keep them up! He fecked up real time. There was this player, who was injured a lot. Medel. He went on to better things at Inter. But Ole destroyed the spine of that fine team! The spine, Campbell, Marshall. Mutch and Caulker. They hardly played any fotball at top level after that! And it’s all down to Ole! Not those idiots who signed them and thought they where the new spine of England!

 

[Flexdegea]

It’s not a debate just how I see it. You see it differently because you back the manager you’ll even make up absurd views such as thinking Jose left us like how he left and joined Chelsea and in your head it’s a fact.

Eitherway there’s plenty for and against. As far as I’m concerned he’s a novice doing an okay job which could have been done quicker and better under a more qualified manager. But to answer your point Inter Milan messed around with average managers for a while dipping in and out of the Champions league qualifications. They get a good manager and in one season they are title contenders.

It’s football not geometry. It doesn’t take 5 years to build success especially when the tools are available like United have.

Your point is totally moot when you seen we had 2 top managers and never got close to any sort of promised land and where left with expensive buys and totally disjointed squads, but hey we are united we got the tools to get back up their quickly, just bring another manager in its cert to happen



PS we are challenging. So not sure what the moaning about

 

[RedSky]

Interesting Manager Comparison Stats

Klopps first 109 games in charge at Liverpool resulted in a win percentage of 54%, Ole after 109 games is currently on 59%.

In the league however, the first 70 league games, Pochettino, Ole and Klopp are all on the exact same win percentage, 51% having won 36 games. Interestingly, Ole and Klopp recorded 21 clean sheets in that time, Poch with 20. Both Ole and Klopps teams also conceded 78 league goals.

 

[hobbers]

Your point is totally moot when you seen we had 2 top managers and never got close to any sort of promised land and where left with expensive buys and totally disjointed squads, but hey we are united we got the tools to get back up their quickly, just bring another manager in its cert to happen

Two top managers at the worst possible points in their careers.

LVG was a terrible hire in hindsight because he was always going to be retiring after 3 years which put an unnecessary clock on things, and he was also coming off the back of international management. I think it's very difficult to switch straight back into club management from international management, especially going into a club the size of United.

Mourinho was hired at the lowest point in his career. Had we hired him straight after the Moyes debacle things would almost certainly have been very different. Had we hired him after he had got the second Chelsea stint out of his system, as Spurs have, things may well have been very different.

As said below your point is literally no different to saying that we shouldnt ever sign a top striker again because we signed one who did shit, forgetting we only signed him after he'd destroyed his knee.

 

[Mainoldo]

Your point is totally moot when you seen we had 2 top managers and never got close to any sort of promised land and where left with expensive buys and totally disjointed squads, but hey we are united we got the tools to get back up their quickly, just bring another manager in its cert to happen



PS we are challenging. So not sure what the moaning about

Thats like saying let’s not signing another world class striker because we had Falcao and he never did nothing.

 

[Garethw]

If we win the title, wich is possible given the state of the league, a lot of people here would like Ole to get fired anyway.

When I read some comments like, hire Poch now and we have a chance for the title, I cannot believe it. Who fired a manager because he put the club in a place where je can win the title ? That is mental. Never heard that kind of twisted logic.

With what we can see players like Ole, otherwise he would have been fired long time ago. So sacking him in the middle of the season will probably win us the title. It is sucide.

I am not saying Ole is the next SAF. But I think he did good til now by clearing deadwood and give us some hope. We are far from a turnmoil right now. Lets see where we finish, how this crazy season will pan out and assess then.

Yeah, I know, people will say, I don't have ambition, the expectations have been lowered.
But I think I am realistic. That is a team who never finished in the top 4 two times in a row for 7 years ! And people are expecting immediat titles and champions leagues !

I say if we finish in the top 4 this season too, Ole would have done the best job since SAF. Of course, the goal is not top 4 but it will be a tangible progress de can build on in the route to win the league.

You’re forgetting that Jose got us CL football two years in a row and won us a European cup. After spending nearly £300 million the bare minimum we should expect is a top 4 finish from Ole.

 

[el3mel]

If we win the title, wich is possible given the state of the league, a lot of people here would like Ole to get fired anyway.

Not really this isn't true at all.

 

[hobbers]

I say if we finish in the top 4 this season too, Ole would have done the best job since SAF.

Best job since Mourinho, since he finished second and won two actual trophies.

 

[RedTiger]

37 clean sheet.

You're so negative. We should aim for 38 clean sheets. No ambition....

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Best job since Mourinho, since he finished second and won two actual trophies.

Well said.

 

[Greck]

Best job since Mourinho, since he finished second and won two actual trophies.

Yep can't believe these people actually have me defending Mourinho but Ole's time here so far has nothing on him, not by any quantifiable or objective metric. Ole's accomplishments start where Jose's failures began. We could compare their failures/success and you'd see that statement is more literal than figurative. Jose was a failure for losing the FA cup final, losing to Sevilla and coming 2nd. Guess what Ole is supposedly a success for..

 

[wolvored]

the 2020 league table. Utd are 3rd since January. Link

 

[Eriku]

Clearly not But I don't want a childish argument on the internet either.



It sounds like we are singing from the same hymn sheet!

Me neither, even though I feel my BA in linguistics and communication might aid me in this particular one ;P

I’d rather keep singing from the hymn sheet, and hope that we’re saved soon.

 

[PoTMS]

Hassenhutl showing you how much of a difference a coach makes to a team. Clear style of play, attractive football, results.

Oh, but surely he's had longer to mould his squad into the team he wants. No, both were hired in December 2018.

Oh, but surely he's spent £££ to get there. No, their players are not great. I mean his team has Theo fecking Walcott banging them in.

 

[L1nk]

Interesting Manager Comparison Stats

Klopps first 109 games in charge at Liverpool resulted in a win percentage of 54%, Ole after 109 games is currently on 59%.

In the league however, the first 70 league games, Pochettino, Ole and Klopp are all on the exact same win percentage, 51% having won 36 games. Interestingly, Ole and Klopp recorded 21 clean sheets in that time, Poch with 20. Both Ole and Klopps teams also conceded 78 league goals.

Please just stop, Ole Gunnar Solsksjaer, is not, and will never be, Jurgen Klopp, ever. EVER.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Hassenhutl showing you how much of a difference a coach makes to a team.

Oh, but surely he's had longer to mould his squad into the team he wants. No, both were hired in December 2018.

Oh, but surely he's spent £££ to get there. No, his team was Theo fecking Walcott banging them in.

Imagine Ole managing Southampton

 

[Redfrog]

Best job since Mourinho, since he finished second and won two actual trophies.

All right, but look at what happened after finishing second in the league. We finished third last season, if we can do that one more time it will be better then what Mourinho did in my book.

Look at Klopp, he cemented his place in top 4 before doing what he did the last 2 years.
The league is bred and butter. Cups are nice but it involves more luck. And I don't rate thé 2 cups Mou won. Both are second rate. We used to play youngsters in league cup and never took Europa seriously under Fergie. I prefer to win the old fashionned cup rather then winning this 2.

I understand your view through.

 

[RedTiger]

Please just stop, Ole Gunnar Solsksjaer, is not, and will never be, Jurgen Klopp, ever. EVER.

He's not saying that Ole is Klopp, he's just saying that their recent records are similar.

 

[wolvored]

Another fact someone said on the wireless. Every season what position Mourinho was at 12 game mark was where he finished the season, so Ole or anyone else winning the league is already over.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Interesting Manager Comparison Stats

Klopps first 109 games in charge at Liverpool resulted in a win percentage of 54%, Ole after 109 games is currently on 59%.

In the league however, the first 70 league games, Pochettino, Ole and Klopp are all on the exact same win percentage, 51% having won 36 games. Interestingly, Ole and Klopp recorded 21 clean sheets in that time, Poch with 20. Both Ole and Klopps teams also conceded 78 league goals.

Interestingly Ole has massively outspent them all.

Interestingly in his first full season Klopp got 76 points, Ole 66.

Interestingly in his second full season Klopp got Liverpool into the Champions League final, twatting Man City 5–1 on aggregate in the quarters, Ole got dumped out in the group.

These Klopp comparisons are never “interesting”, they are tedious as feck.

Imagine seeing Chelsea fans defending Frank now with stats like this, “look look Frank is doing as well as Klopp in his first 50 games” “Frank has a 51% win rate in the Prem, same as Klopp” etc etc. We’d utterly wet ourselves laughing at them.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

How did Conte do it at Chelsea? Pep at City?

Mourinho in his second stint at Chelsea. Pelligrini did so too. Ranieri. Other than that, it can't be done.

 

[Greck]

All right, but look at what happened after finishing second in the league. We finished third last season, if we can do that one more time it will be better then what Mourinho did in my book.

Look at Klopp, he cemented his place in top 4 before doing what he did the last 2 years.
The league is bred and butter. Cups are nice but it involves more luck. And I don't rate thé 2 cups Mou won. Both are second rate. We used to play youngsters in league cup and never took Europa seriously under Fergie. I prefer to win the old fashionned cup rather then winning this 2.

I understand your view through.

Klopp made the CL final in the corresponding season. Their rise went beyond solidifying top 4 in consecutive years

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Since September. 25 points is the least any team leading the league has ever had after 12 games through the history of the PL. Also, the distance from 1st to 10th is the least it has ever been in PL history after 12 rounds. Tottenham and Liverpool currently project at 79 points, which would be the lowest number of points anyone has ever won the PL with, 2 less than Leicester in 2016 and 20 less than Liverpool had last year. So far, this is a uniquely even season.

Fulham just took points off Liverpool, WBA have drawn against Chelsea and City and lost narrowly to both Tottenham and us and Burnley just beat Arsenal. SHU haven't been pushovers either, even when they've lost.

Its been almost 5 months since Liverpool tore the league to shreds. This season will probably be a weird one but thats because the entire world in such an odd state.

Maybe we reserve the judgements till the end but as with most seasons I don't think the teams down the bottom are as strong as some people make out. I mean, Bilic just got sacked for WBA. I doubt WBA think as highly as of those draws as some are making out.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

Please just stop, Ole Gunnar Solsksjaer, is not, and will never be, Jurgen Klopp, ever. EVER.

Yes. Ole is Jürgen Klopp.

 

[Mainoldo]

Yes. Ole is Jürgen Klopp.

Oh so he’s not a high level manager? Is that what you are saying?