Would you be okay with state or state-backed ownership?

[jeff_goldblum]

How is it false equivalence?

If you're so against sports washing, surely you'd be being vocal against existing sports washing projects?

Could it possibly be you're virtue signalling and have backed yourself into a bit of a corner by saying you'll walk away due to the sports washing?

This is just brain-dead stuff. Obviously people with an emotional connection to United will be more upset and more vocal about bad stuff happening to United than they would be if it was happening to another club.

Doesn't mean it's objectively worse, just that the emotional connection makes it matter more to that individual. It's the polar opposite of the shallow tribalism many on here seem to subscribe to, where they proclaim to hate City for buying success with blood money when actually they were just jealous.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In the last 5-7 years, did you always prefer Liverpool to win the League when they're neck to neck with state-owned Man City?

That’s an interesting point. Although I think you can hate sportwashing projects and still want City to have beaten Liverpool. One of the reasons many of us hate state ownership (and don’t want it at United) is that it cheapens and invalidates whatever success the gulf state penis extensions achieve. So the meaninglessness of City’s trophies made it easier to root for them ahead of Liverpool.

 

[b82REZ]

This is just brain-dead stuff. Obviously people with an emotional connection to United will be more upset and more vocal about bad stuff happening to United than they would be if it was happening to another club.

Doesn't mean it's objectively worse, just that the emotional connection makes it matter more to that individual. It's the polar opposite of the shallow tribalism many on here seem to subscribe to, where they proclaim to hate City for buying success with blood money when actually they were just jealous.

How?

It's selective outrage. As you're conveniently explaining. You only find these issues when it directly impacts you.

You can't bemoan sports washing and want to protect the world from it, but ignore the same practice going on elsewhere.

So I'd say the actual brain-dead aspect of this is you (and others) only finding outrage as it's making you look in the mirror. If you're so against it; make a stand and protest City, Newcastle, PSG and any other enterprise the ME states are already using as sports washing enterprises.

This is what makes an awful lot of this virtue signalling and hollow threats pointless. If people feel strongly about sports washing you need to be against it ALL, not just the parts that impact you directly.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How?

It's selective outrage. As you're conveniently explaining. You only find these issues when it directly impacts you.

You can't bemoan sports washing and want to protect the world from it, but ignore the same practice going on elsewhere.

So I'd say the actual brain-dead aspect of this is you (and others) only finding outrage as it's making you look in the mirror. If you're so against it; make a stand and protest City, Newcastle, PSG and any other enterprise the ME states are already using as sports washing enterprises.

This is what makes an awful lot of this virtue signalling and hollow threats pointless. If people feel strongly about sports washing you need to be against it ALL, not just the parts that impact you directly.

You really can’t understand why Manchester United fans would feel most strongly about this when it’s our club about to be state owned? Seriously?!

 

[b82REZ]

You really can’t understand why Manchester United fans would feel most strongly about this when it’s our club about to be state owned? Seriously?!

I've explained it clearly enough in my previous post. If you can't see the difference between being against sports washing and only being against it when it directly impacts you I don't know what to say.

I don't need to virtue signal on a forum to make myself feel better. I won't be walking away from the club regardless of who buys us. I'm not hypocritical enough to claim I would.

 

[klsv]

I do hate City, PSG and Newcastle for their owners. Love seeing PSG failing to win the CL every year. Do I fly off to Paris to throw a one man riot or is it enough if I join their fan forums? I am not virtue signaling. There is a thread on RedCafe which asked "are you okay with state ownership" and if my answer is "no", then I am virtue signaling? It's like calling people protesting climate change twats because they don't protest against the war, poverty and the far right at the same time. Some fecking weirdos here.

 

[b82REZ]

I do hate City, PSG and Newcastle for their owners. Love seeing PSG failing to win the CL every year. Do I fly off to Paris to throw a one man riot or is it enough if I join their fan forums? I am not virtue signaling. There is a thread on RedCafe which asked "are you okay with state ownership" and if my answer is "no", then I am virtue signaling? It's like calling people protesting climate change twats because they don't protest against the war, poverty and the far right at the same time. Some fecking weirdos here.

So selective outrage.

 

[Dan_F]

I've explained it clearly enough in my previous post. If you can't see the difference between being against sports washing and only being against it when it directly impacts you I don't know what to say.

I don't need to virtue signal on a forum to make myself feel better. I won't be walking away from the club regardless of who buys us. I'm not hypocritical enough to claim I would.

So you don’t think a section of United fans will walk away if Qatar take over?

 

[b82REZ]

So you don’t think a section of United fans will walk away if Qatar take over?

Of course some will. Not the point I'm making though.

 

[Dan_F]

Of course some will. Not the point I'm making though.

What are you blabbering on about virtue signalling for then?

 

[b82REZ]

What are you blabbering on about virtue signalling for then?

Read the post again, it's really not that difficult.

 

[Dan_F]

Read the post again, it's really not that difficult.

From what I can gather you said a poster was virtue signalling because he said he would stop supporting the club.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I've explained it clearly enough in my previous post. If you can't see the difference between being against sports washing and only being against it when it directly impacts you I don't know what to say.

I don't need to virtue signal on a forum to make myself feel better. I won't be walking away from the club regardless of who buys us. I'm not hypocritical enough to claim I would.

But almost getting there, right?! Seriously, if you've ever criticized the Citys and PSGs of the footballing world, then you have already committed hypocrisy. It's just about levels.

 

[Isotope]

That’s an interesting point. Although I think you can hate sportwashing projects and still want City to have beaten Liverpool. One of the reasons many of us hate state ownership (and don’t want it at United) is that it cheapens and invalidates whatever success the gulf state penis extensions achieve. So the meaninglessness of City’s trophies made it easier to root for them ahead of Liverpool.

Of which I understand and agreed.

People prefer City to win, is not because their owners are successful on "sportwashing" us.

 

[Withnail]

Accusing people of virtue signalling is just another way of calling people snowflakes and social justice warriors. It only serves to stifle debate.

You can disagree with someone's stance and think it's hypocritical without making them out to be a twat who's trying to cultivate an image on the internet.

 

[b82REZ]

Accusing people of virtue signalling is just another way of calling people snowflakes and social justice warriors. It only serves to stifle debate.

You can disagree with someone's stance and think it's hypocritical without making them out to be a twat who's trying to cultivate an image on the internet.

It's not always virtue signalling; but it is a lot of the time. I'd state @Fridge chutney was leaning more on the side of virtue signalling than not.

They were essentially saying they'd still post on here and cheer on other clubs, despite disagreeing with the ownership. What would you call that?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

They were essentially saying they'd still post on here and cheer on other clubs, despite disagreeing with the ownership.

Eh? Sorry, I haven't followed the thread closely: but this (your sentence) makes no sense.

Specifically the "despite" part.

If they'd cheer on other clubs (which would be bizarre, I'd say personally), they wouldn't do that "despite disagreeing with the ownership" but presumably because they disagree with the ownership.

(Which would, again, be bizarre to me - but whatever.)

I can tell you this (if you're interested):

If United get bought by Qatar, I won't be hanging around here (the Caf) cheering on other (non-state owned or whatever) teams, I'd have zero interest in that.

Would I quit the Caf altogether, though? No, I probably would not. And I really don't see why I should.

 

[b82REZ]

Eh? Sorry, I haven't followed the thread closely: but this (your sentence) makes no sense.

Specifically the "despite" part.

If they'd cheer on other clubs (which would be bizarre, I'd say personally), they wouldn't do that "despite disagreeing with the ownership" but presumably because they disagree with the ownership.

(Which would, again, be bizarre to me - but whatever.)

I can tell you this (if you're interested):

If United get bought by Qatar, I won't be hanging around here (the Caf) cheering on other (non-state owned or whatever) teams, I'd have zero interest in that.

Would I quit the Caf altogether, though? No, I probably would not. And I really don't see why I should.

Good for you.

For me I'd find it very odd to go on to a forum for something I'm trying to distance myself from. Same reason I don't get why oppo fans post here in droves, but each to their own.

But re the bolded, what would you consider the current fans who claim that's what they'll do to be? This is what I have issue with. If you want to walk away for moral reasons; what other reason could you have, other than virtue signalling, to post on the forum, and actively support other non-ME owned clubs?

 

[Withnail]

It's not always virtue signalling; but it is a lot of the time. I'd state @Fridge chutney was leaning more on the side of virtue signalling than not.

They were essentially saying they'd still post on here and cheer on other clubs, despite disagreeing with the ownership. What would you call that?

I would say being happy something happened and actively cheering them on are not necessarily the same thing.

Also being more active in your opposition to state ownership of the club you supported all your life over other teams, even though you're still against their state ownership and have posted about that in the past, isn't all that strange to me. I don't find that overly hypocritical. Everything isn't all or nothing. People are complex and some things are obviously going to be closer to an individual's heart than others.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Eh? Sorry, I haven't followed the thread closely: but this (your sentence) makes no sense.

Specifically the "despite" part.

If they'd cheer on other clubs (which would be bizarre, I'd say personally), they wouldn't do that "despite disagreeing with the ownership" but presumably because they disagree with the ownership.

(Which would, again, be bizarre to me - but whatever.)

I can tell you this (if you're interested):

If United get bought by Qatar, I won't be hanging around here (the Caf) cheering on other (non-state owned or whatever) teams, I'd have zero interest in that.

Would I quit the Caf altogether, though? No, I probably would not. And I really don't see why I should.

That’s fair enough. Would you be cheering on other clubs to win trophies though? As Fridge has clearly stated.

‘Non state backed clubs’ is what Fridge stated.

So that’d leave Fridge cheering on Liverpool in a title race with Utd… while also posting all the time in a Utd forum, criticising Utd - this is what Fridge him / herself claimed they’d do.

It’s that which was labelled becoming essentially an oppo WUM, or throwing their toys.

I reached the point of hatred and anger under the Glazers of refusing to wish them success, stopped identifying as a ‘fan’ until they’ve gone and stopped buying any merch, but I never wanted any club other than Utd to win a trophy.

And my hatred for Liverpool and City never dulled (if anything it got sharper).

If Fridge had said, ‘I’ll be done as a Utd fan until Qatar fecks off, but will still post here’, no one would be saying anything other than, ‘fair play mate’.

It’s the, ‘I will be happy to see other clubs win trophies’, ‘I will constantly complain about Utd’s state ownership’ and ‘I will not complain equally about other clubs’ state ownership’ that seems a bit out there.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I would say being happy something happened and actively cheering them on are not necessarily the same thing.

Also being more active in your opposition to state ownership of the club you supported all your life over other teams, even though you're still against their state ownership and have posted about that in the past, isn't all that strange to me. I don't find that overly hypocritical. Everything isn't all or nothing. People are complex and some things are obviously going to be closer to an individual's heart than others.

Cmon Nail, being happy the dippers win a PL over Utd while posting all the time in a Utd forum is an oppo WUM.

If it actually happens (which I don’t think think it will btw, I think Fridge was just venting), you’ll be telling him to feck off.

 

[b82REZ]

I would say being happy something happened and actively cheering them on are not necessarily the same thing.

Also being more active in your opposition to state ownership of the club you supported all your life over other teams, even though you're still against their state ownership and have posted about that in the past, isn't all that strange to me. I don't find that overly hypocritical. Everything isn't all or nothing. People are complex and some things are obviously going to be closer to an individual's heart than others.

But the same sentiments are not shared across the forum. It's admirable you're able to recognise the complex emotions of the human psyche; however you are certainly the exception to that case.

The issue simply is, the virtue signalling. You can claim it's something else, but if it looks like a dog and barks like a dog...

At the end of the day I'd wager the majority are like me, pretty uninterested in involving politics with football, want what's best for the club first and foremost and would take whichever owner offers that stability (theoretically). It just so happens Qatar have made the most appealing offer.

For some it'll be easy to walk away for geographical reasons, same way it was easy for me not watch any of the WC. But when it's on your doorstep and has been your life for the best part of forty years having someone actively state they'd cheerlead for other clubs out of what is essentially virtue signalling rubs many up the wrong way.

 

[Isotope]

If more and more teams are bought with owners from similar background, there should be legitimate concern on "conflict of interest" and fear of "match fixing".

UEFA need to do something about these takeovers.

 

[Cheimoon]

So selective outrage.

You can't be angry about everything all the time though.

I mean, you're now limiting the selectivenss to state-backed ownership of a football club: be outraged at all instances or none of them. But if you're against that, why aren't you also against further financial unfairness in football? Club owners have very different fortunes and it's moreover a total 'rich get richer' world (the winner gets most money and hence most opportunity to improve). Not protesting that but stopping at state-backed ownership? Selective outrage. But there's plenty of similar financial unfairness in the world. Not protesting that? Selective outrage. And so on.

Everybody picks their battles as they have the time and motivation. That's entirely normal. You could talk about selective outrage or hypocrisy if people would really not care about one thing (or even support it) and be incensed about a very similar other thing. But the phenomenon that people get triggered more by, and are more willing to speak up about, situations that are 'closer to home' for them is entirely normal.

As I said, the alternative is setting a random boundary elsewhere (still selective outrage?) or being angry all the time. Is that the expectation you're setting? If so, where do you position yourself among that?

 

[Withnail]

Cmon Nail, being happy the dippers win a PL over Utd while posting all the time in a Utd forum is an oppo WUM.

If it actually happens (which I don’t think think it will btw, I think Fridge was just venting), you’ll be telling him to feck off.

But the same sentiments are not shared across the forum. It's admirable you're able to recognise the complex emotions of the human psyche; however you are certainly the exception to that case.

The issue simply is, the virtue signalling. You can claim it's something else, but if it looks like a dog and barks like a dog...

At the end of the day I'd wager the majority are like me, pretty uninterested in involving politics with football, want what's best for the club first and foremost and would take whichever owner offers that stability (theoretically). It just so happens Qatar have made the most appealing offer.

For some it'll be easy to walk away for geographical reasons, same way it was easy for me not watch any of the WC. But when it's on your doorstep and has been your life for the best part of forty years having someone actively state they'd cheerlead for other clubs out of what is essentially virtue signalling rubs many up the wrong way.

I don't agree with the term at all. I hear it most from far right types when trying to shut someone up so it's become quite loaded for me, even out of that context. I do feel you're both putting words in their mouth a little bit though. Being happy to see non-state owned clubs win doesn't necessarily mean cheering them on but up to them to clarify.

I certainly wouldn't be cheering Liverpool on for any reason but yeah it could just have been venting as you say @Rhyme Animal or perhaps it was just poorly worded.

 

[Neil67]

If I don’t have to give an explanation to my answer? Then the answer is yes!
If I have to give an explanation then I’m not telling you!!

 

[tomaldinho1]

I've explained it clearly enough in my previous post. If you can't see the difference between being against sports washing and only being against it when it directly impacts you I don't know what to say.

I don't need to virtue signal on a forum to make myself feel better. I won't be walking away from the club regardless of who buys us. I'm not hypocritical enough to claim I would.

Your explanation makes no sense though.

I assume you’re against racism, no one is going to call that belief into question because you haven’t spent your free time scouring message boards and the dark web or going out of your way to tell everyone at every opportunity ‘I am against racism’ but if you saw someone being racist I hope you would care and do something about it. That’s exactly what’s happening here, supporters of a football club are being directly affected by something they disagree with. They don’t have to have a backlog of proof that they care about the said issue to be able to disagree with it.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

How?

It's selective outrage. As you're conveniently explaining. You only find these issues when it directly impacts you.

You can't bemoan sports washing and want to protect the world from it, but ignore the same practice going on elsewhere.

So I'd say the actual brain-dead aspect of this is you (and others) only finding outrage as it's making you look in the mirror. If you're so against it; make a stand and protest City, Newcastle, PSG and any other enterprise the ME states are already using as sports washing enterprises.

This is what makes an awful lot of this virtue signalling and hollow threats pointless. If people feel strongly about sports washing you need to be against it ALL, not just the parts that impact you directly.

It's not selective outrage in the slightest. Nobody who is upset about United being bought by Qatar is saying that Newcastle being owned by Saudi etc. is a good thing.

If I was a fan of any of those clubs, I'd like to think that I'd have cut my ties and boycotted them, but obviously as a United fan I didn't have any ties to cut and I was already effectively boycotting them simply by virtue of not paying to watch them or buying their stuff. If United go the same way I'll be forced to sacrifice a part of my life and change my consumer behaviour to avoid a moral issue I had previously not had to work particularly hard to avoid, which sucks for me but hey ho.

It would be the height of hypocrisy for United fans to judge Newcastle and City fans for revelling in the fruits of blood money and then do it themselves. But it's not hypocrisy for United fans to be more emotionally impacted by United's name being dragged through the mud than they were by City's or Newcastle's, that's the most normal thing in the world. It also wouldn't be hypocrisy for United fans to treat a Qatar-owned United the same as you'd treat as they'd treat Saudi-led Newcastle - by not rewarding them for it.

If your partner cheated on you and you broke up with them for it, you'd be confused if someone came up to you and said "You can't be upset with your ex or dump them! I didn't see you getting upset and dumping that random woman over there when she cheated on her husband. Selective outrage! Virtue signalling!"

 

[Fridge chutney]

In the last 5-7 years, did you always prefer Liverpool to win the League when they're neck to neck with state-owned Man City?

I would have preferred they won the league this year certainly. To be honest the past few years have been difficult because if the alternative to a state-backed club is the scousers, that's not great.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I don’t classify someone who’s against Sportswashing as a WUM.

I consider what you described as an oppo WUM - someone who doesn’t support Utd, wants other teams to win trophies and posts on here criticising Utd all the time.

Also, you stated that you’d support ‘non state owned clubs winning trophies’ - that’s basically just Liverpool mate, isn’t it?

It sounds like you’re tying yourself up in knots over this, and the stuff you’re proposing doing seems to me like throwing your toys out of the pram.

If your problem is Sportswashing, then no, it’s not a false equivalent to suggest you’ll presumably also be all over City, Newcastle, PSG forums doing the same. Why would you limit your focus on solely Utd?

If you’re going to dedicate your time to criticising the owners of Utd for Sportswashing, but you no longer follow Utd, I don’t see why you won’t also be doing it to the clubs who are actually proven state owned.

Unless, as I said, it’s not actually solely about that at all, and is also about you not getting what you want.

If i have to spell it out for you: I have supported United for almost 3 decades, and i have never supported City or PSG, so why would i ever join a city or psg forum? So regardless of whether i follow or support United (the latter would be very hard if owned by a state and i don't think i could do it), it is my right to voice opposition to the ownership because i have a vested interest in the club not being state-owned. It's as simple as that.

As for Liverpool, do i like when they win? No, obviously i do not. But if they win without being a sportswashing tool, that sits better with me than ANY state-owned club winning. That doesn't mean to say i like or want Liverpool winning to happen.

So you can disrespectfully reduce how i feel to "throwing toys out of the pram" but to be honest i find that incredibly disrespectful and ignorant. I feel very sad about what is happening to the club i have loved for 30+ years and i feel very conflicted about football these days as a result.

 

[Fridge chutney]

How is it false equivalence?

If you're so against sports washing, surely you'd be being vocal against existing sports washing projects?

Could it possibly be you're virtue signalling and have backed yourself into a bit of a corner by saying you'll walk away due to the sports washing?

virtue signalling. Yeah buddy, throw out that old cliche. I didn't watch any of the world cup despite two teams i have followed my entire life being present. So i know I can walk away from a sport no problem. The strength of my convictions are the least of my concerns.

Also i have supported United for 3 decades. I have never supported PSG or City. It is baffling that i have to spell out the difference here.

 

[Isotope]

I would have preferred they won the league this year certainly. To be honest the past few years have been difficult because if the alternative to a state-backed club is the scousers, that's not great.

Understood, mate. Anyway, I'm not here to judge other people's believe. I think it's logical for people to be torned on this issue.
Where people's bottom line is just ranged so wide. Especially on things that are not directly affecting that individual's daily life.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

If i have to spell it out for you: I have supported United for almost 3 decades, and i have never supported City or PSG, so why would i ever join a city or psg forum? So regardless of whether i follow or support United (the latter would be very hard if owned by a state and i don't think i could do it), it is my right to voice opposition to the ownership because i have a vested interest in the club not being state-owned. It's as simple as that.

As for Liverpool, do i like when they win? No, obviously i do not. But if they win without being a sportswashing tool, that sits better with me than ANY state-owned club winning. That doesn't mean to say i like or want Liverpool winning to happen.

So you can disrespectfully reduce how i feel to "throwing toys out of the pram" but to be honest i find that incredibly disrespectful and ignorant. I feel very sad about what is happening to the club i have loved for 30+ years and i feel very conflicted about football these days as a result.

Come on mate, you won’t prefer Liverpool to win a PL over a Jassim owned Utd. When it happens, you won’t. That’s a fecking extreme statement to make.

I declared a few years back that I wouldn’t consider myself a fan until the Glazers left Utd (I began supporting United over 35 years ago) and I received a lot of shit for it, on here and in my family but it was the fecking hurt and the anger of watching these cretins ruin and bleed my club, so I understand. But when Utd start pushing for trophies - trust me, you will still want them to win, especially against rivals.

But at least see how it goes. The owner might surprise you, you never know.

And never Liverpool man, cmon, never Liverpool over Utd.

 

[Fridge chutney]

No one said disliking Utd’s owners makes someone an oppo WUM.

Rooting for other teams to win trophies against Utd while spending all your time on a Utd forum, complaining about Utd is an oppo WUM.

The guy freely stated that he’d no longer support Utd and would instead root for none state owned clubs to win trophies…



So, he’s saying he’ll be in here, happy to see Liverpool or Chelsea win the PL, while complaining about Utd.

Imo that’s throwing your toys out the pram.

My goodness so much to catch up on in this thread.

I'll revise my statement to remove any doubt: I won't support United but i'd be happy* to see a non-state club win trophies.

*Unless it is any of our rivals, especially Liverpool, in which case i will be annoyed and liable to break whatever screen i witnessed said trophy-winning on, all the while understanding that non-sportswashing projects winning trophies sits better with my personal values, causing me internal conflict and definitely NOT causing me happiness.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

My goodness so much to catch up on in this thread.

I'll revise my statement to remove any doubt: I won't support United but i'd be happy* to see a non-state club win trophies.

*Unless it is any of our rivals, especially Liverpool, in which case i will be annoyed and liable to break whatever screen i witnessed said trophy-winning on, all the while understanding that non-sportswashing projects winning trophies sits better with my personal values, causing me internal conflict and definitely NOT causing me happiness.

That’s more like it.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Come on mate, you won’t prefer Liverpool to win a PL over a Jassim owned Utd. When it happens, you won’t. That’s a fecking extreme statement to make.

I declared a few years back that I wouldn’t consider myself a fan until the Glazers left Utd (I began supporting United over 35 years ago) and I received a lot of shit for it, on here and in my family but it was the fecking hurt and the anger of watching these cretins ruin and bleed my club, so I understand. But when Utd start pushing for trophies - trust me, you will still want them to win, especially against rivals.

But at least see how it goes. The owner might surprise you, you never know.

And never Liverpool man, cmon, never Liverpool over Utd.

I relate re: Glazers. I remember being so disheartened when they bought us, but i think it helped that they just felt like other business people. I didn't understand the true nature of their toxicity at the time. It also helped that the great SAF and his young team provided an important element of continuity for the club, and the ownership bullshit quickly faded from my consciousness.

But even then, i saw how unfair it was when Roman bought Chelsea. That was when i was first became opposed to the dangers of state ownership. I abhorred what he, then City and PSG represented. Perhaps Jassim is just some random rich guy similar to the Glazers and those who came before them. But at the moment it seems hard to separate that from what's happened at City, Newcastle and with the Qatar world cup etc. Time will tell.

 

[Withnail]

That’s more like it.

I feckin told you. Fridge is good people

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I feckin told you. Fridge is good people

Lame (not Fridge).

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I relate re: Glazers. I remember being so disheartened when they bought us, but i think it helped that they just felt like other business people. I didn't understand the true nature of their toxicity at the time. It also helped that the great SAF and his young team provided an important element of continuity for the club, and the ownership bullshit quickly faded from my consciousness.

But even then, i saw how unfair it was when Roman bought Chelsea. That was when i was first became opposed to the dangers of state ownership. I abhorred what he, then City and PSG represented. Perhaps Jassim is just some random rich guy similar to the Glazers and those who came before them. But at the moment it seems hard to separate that from what's happened at City, Newcastle and with the Qatar world cup etc. Time will tell.

Yeah, I understand mate.

It was just the Liverpool thing that was a stretch for me. I totally understand what you’re saying and I respect it.

See how it plays out. I do feel for those that’ve waited so long for the Glazers to fecking piss off and when they finally do, it’s a choice of 2 ownerships that lots of people don’t like.

For me, I’ve just waited so long for them to feck off that I’m gonna enjoy it when (if) they properly go.

If Jassim pulls any of the crap Qatar did with the WC, I’m out mate. But I’ll give him a chance first.

Likewise with cheating (not that Utd should need to), any of that, I’m out.

 

[Morpheus 7]

You know what I would be okay with, Manchester United not getting robbed anymore. Chatting about the morality of a Qatari takeover. United were so far ahead before Glazers came, been milked and used like a ATM. It's been a yearly robbery and been prostituted out on there name since with us nothing to show for it even.

Someone should be in jail for allowing the last take over to go through. It's not millions stolen anymore, billions and they are squeezing for more. Wrecking our upcoming season in a sale process.

It's this simple, I just don't want an owner not taking anymore out. I want fans respected and the money we generate put in. I'm not asking for an owner to cook the books to cheat our way to success. Qatar offers to wipe out debt, we never put on the club! To build a stadium that is up to standard of being the best in the country, which is was before Glazers also came. Carrington was not touched either by then, we have stood still and we need to catch up. Where we deserve to be, United generate the money. Just had clowns in charge, stealing since they arrive. Jim Glazer 2.0 will not bring us forward, I want a secure future and a platform to be the best. Our fans could easily fill 100k stadium but we don't have the ambition to be the best now. There is no morals in football. I just want a secure future because I love United and don't want us to be left behind.