Surprisingly nuanced and sensible post from Fred.
I suppose 1 in 13,000 isn't too bad.
Would you accept relegation to feck the Glazers off?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
Surprisingly nuanced and sensible post from Fred.
I suppose 1 in 13,000 isn't too bad.
Glazer will not feck off easily.
The only time he will feck off is when we've rot like a sewer rat.
So, for those of you wishing glazer to feck off, be warned! He will not leave United intact even if he is to feck off.
The only time he will feck off is when we've rot like a sewer rat.
So, for those of you wishing glazer to feck off, be warned! He will not leave United intact even if he is to feck off.
Very true..
The damage has been done already..
The problem isnt how to stop it happening, because its already happened. The question is how to get out of it, and more importantly, what the consequences are by him stay in comparison to the consequences of him going...
Personally, and I think this is where I differ from most, I think its better he goes now than leaving him to feck it up for himself..
Dillema,
A forceful depost will not likely possible, even if it's possible he won't possibly be leaving with some sort of vendetta. Forget the vendetta, he'll be selling all United's asset.
Besides, if he indeed leave due to bankruptcy, some other foreign investor will step in anyway
who knows what we'll up against. Ex-politician? Terrorist funding agency? Looks bleak.Dillema,
A forceful depost will not likely possible, even if it's possible he won't possibly be leaving with some sort of vendetta. Forget the vendetta, he'll be selling all United's asset.
Besides, if he indeed leave due to bankruptcy, some other foreign investor will step in anyway
Wheres Richard Branson when you need him...
I'm not sure I would. Thing is, United is very important to Manchester. . .and a major selling point. Perhaps our only truly world class institution. Relegation may set us back years, perhaps even decades, and that won't be good for my city.
You think that United would lose its history and heritage by being relegated ?
United will be a worldwide known phenomenon no matter what division they play in...
Nothing can change that..
No, of course not. But I think it's important that we're always in the limelight. One of the reasons behind Manchester's renaissance, is Manchester United. A global force. Sure, we may make it back with in a few years. . .but there's no guarantee. The top clubs have pulled away over the last few years. A far cry from 1974.
So we sacrifice our Premiership status, pretty much all of our present players and the vast majority of our revenue, just so the Glazers leave?
Considering the fact that they would be almost immediately replaced by a brand new bunch of unlikeable, in it for the money businessmen, then no I definitely wouldn't.
Yes, where's Richard Branson, that well known chairman of non-profit making companies?Wheres Richard Branson when you need him...
The people that suggest these hypotheticals are quite often the first people to speak out about the fact that have not been free-scoring of late. 'Its a disgrace!' they say. 'We must buy another striker!'. Incredibly hypocritical.
I'm sorry but anyone who says yes to this is a grade A cnut.
Well you would say that wouldn't you? United wouldn't be on telly as much for you to watch from your armchair. In fact you probably care more about who owns DFS than MUFC.
Thats a bit harsh Ralph. You have to understand that not everybody feels as pssionately as you do about the situation.
Do you not think that if Glazer sold the club we would be newly owned by a businessman equally as focused on maximising revenue?
Fred this is just basic finance but the value of debt owed by Red Football has absolutely no effect whatsoever on the share value of MUFC.
If Red Football had debts of £10billion MUFC is still worth £1billion.
If Red Football had debts of 1p MUFC is still worth £1billion.
I'm not assuming anything about either either the value of debts or share price when I say it makes no financial sense to sell players to cover debt.
Another point is the £1billion figure I used was purely illustrative MUFC is probably worth closer to £1.3billion.
Being a financial advisor gives me some insight on this and I would have to agree with all the point's Fred is making, solely because the asset that is most important to the Glazers is the shares in the club. Selling the shares will be the last thing that they would do as they would do everything they could to maintain control of the asset. The problem in this type of circumstance is thatit would cause a downward spiral, no matter what method they took.
For example, their strategy would begin by continuing to increase ticket prices in order to maintain revenue levels. The Glazers don't want to devalue their shares, so this will be the first step. Once ticket prices get too high, supporters won't be able to afford match tickets. This will lead to the second step, which would be to begin selling the smaller assets (ie - players). This would begin to put negative pressure on the club's valuation. Less talented players would lead to less success, causing a decreased potential for many revenue streams (ie - sponsorships, advertising, even ticket sales in the form of day-trippers). This would lead to a further player sell off as less revenue dollars would lead to less ability to pay player wages. If it goes too far and you face relegation, then those revenue streams would face further declines. These further declines could force the sale of larger assets (ie - Carrington and then OT). These large sales would allow for a short-term cash infusion, but would also lead to long-term expense increases (ie - facility rental costs).
All this could happen if the debt becomes unserviceable due to rising interest rates and/or a revenue slowdown.
The most prudent strategy would now be to overfund the payments towards the debt in order to decrease the principal of the loan. This of course would allow for smaller interest payments, and an upsurge in the ability for the loan to be paid off quicker, which in my mind would be a smart move because it would allow the Glazers to begin to reap the full rewards of owning the club.
For example, their strategy would begin by continuing to increase ticket prices in order to maintain revenue levels. The Glazers don't want to devalue their shares, so this will be the first step. Once ticket prices get too high, supporters won't be able to afford match tickets. This will lead to the second step, which would be to begin selling the smaller assets (ie - players). This would begin to put negative pressure on the club's valuation. Less talented players would lead to less success, causing a decreased potential for many revenue streams (ie - sponsorships, advertising, even ticket sales in the form of day-trippers). This would lead to a further player sell off as less revenue dollars would lead to less ability to pay player wages. If it goes too far and you face relegation, then those revenue streams would face further declines. These further declines could force the sale of larger assets (ie - Carrington and then OT). These large sales would allow for a short-term cash infusion, but would also lead to long-term expense increases (ie - facility rental costs).
All this could happen if the debt becomes unserviceable due to rising interest rates and/or a revenue slowdown.
The most prudent strategy would now be to overfund the payments towards the debt in order to decrease the principal of the loan. This of course would allow for smaller interest payments, and an upsurge in the ability for the loan to be paid off quicker, which in my mind would be a smart move because it would allow the Glazers to begin to reap the full rewards of owning the club.
I agree, hence why I said I'd accept relegation to get the club in the hands of the supporters, not just flogged to another owner (although it's hard to think of a club owner who has pursued profits more vigorously than the Glazers)
That's the sort of response I'd expect from you, chairman of the biggest bestest united fan club in the world ever.
The reason I said that is because, quite frankly, the knock on effects of relegation could be devastating. As well as the financial effects as someone else said in this thread the damage of the whole thing could set the club back decades. I find this "get rid of glazer at literally all cost" thinking quite staggering. Once again it's an example of the lets destroy United in a vague hope of some sort of utopian football club bullshit that your lot continue to peddle. To be honest I find it astonishing.
feckin brilliant season with great memories following them all over the country in the promotion season though
feckin brilliant season with great memories following them all over the country in the promotion season though
I can very vaguely remember us getting promoted, but as I said, i was too young really to understand.
My first real memories where I seemed to understand more about it was the 77 season.
But that wasnt the question asked was it.
The question wasnt do you want it, it was would you accept it..
I would accept relegation if it meant getting shot of the cnut.
Do I want it.. Of course not.
Pipe dreams. Never gonna happen.
Funnily enough thats what the bank managers told Glazer when he said he wanted to borrow money to buy United so he could make a profit..
WHy do you think he went to the Hedge funds...
I don't think I believe you. You get as worked up as any on here about United not scoring enough goals, Ferguson not signing the right players etc etc.
Admit it, you love the fact that United are world leaders. You love it when we win the Premiership and you love it when we sign a new £20m player, just like the rest of us.
What else was said to Glazer in those meetings, seeing as you appear to have been present?
Of course I love it, but please read what I said..
I said IF United were to be relegated and as a consequence Glazer fecked off, then I could accept it. It wouldnt be the worst case scenario for me..
( and please trawl through my posts, you'll find I am the one who isnt expecting loads of goals and I am not complaining about the lack of goals.... So stop telling porkie pies
)They said "we cant let you have the money, but if you go ask Bilbo, he'll give it to you."
I'm not suggesting you're the only one, we all love it. I'm not sure you truly believe what you are saying though, considering the consequences of the situation if we were relegated.Of course I love it, but please read what I said..
I said IF United were to be relegated and as a consequence Glazer fecked off, then I could accept it. It wouldnt be the worst case scenario for me..
( and please trawl through my posts, you'll find I am the one who isnt expecting loads of goals and I am not complaining about the lack of goals.... So stop telling porkie pies
After all, isn't that what all the worry is about? Glazer fecking up our club so that we can no longer compete at the top.
In your scenario, we'd be in the Championship and would have a brand new money-grabber running the club. Where's the upside?
You know, if I had £600m quid, or the ability and influence to raise it, I could think of a million more worthy causes for it than Manchester United football club.They said "we cant let you have the money, but if you go ask Bilbo, he'll give it to you."
Besides I wouldn't want the hassle. Most fickle customers in any business in the world.
Why not? The IFC are up for it. UEFA are up for it. The European Commission are up for it. All you'd need is a bit of legislation like they have in Germany and bingo, you're away.
Personally I'd buy every branch of DFS, MFI and Ikea in the London area. Just to feck RedRichio off.
Personally I'd buy every branch of DFS, MFI and Ikea in the London area. Just to feck RedRichio off.
Not at all.
Falling out the top four isnt that much of an issue to me, footballing wise.
Its the implications financially that worry me.
If we didnt have Glazer we could afford to drop, with him we cant.
And sorry, I know that drop will come at some stage, and what will be the consequences when that happens...
You have no way of knowing that. United are part of the football elite, and given that this elite are so far ahead of the football world in every respect, I can't see a situation that could occur in the next ten years that could possibly hinder our status, or our revenues, significantly.
Erm, a feck off great debt could be quite influential..
Fred
Do you still think the debt held by the holding companies effects the value of United Shares.
Do you still think the debt held by the holding companies effects the value of United Shares.
Who tells you that relegation will feck them off?
Not really. The worst case scenario is that the debt will wipe the club off the face of the earth, but thats about as likely as United getting relegated. More likely, if the Glazers can't handle the debt they'll sell, but if reports are true they have resisted recent enquiries, suggesting they are still fully confident the issue will be resolved.
No matter who gets hold of United in the even of Glazer's fecking off, they'll know clearly that "UNITED are more profitable as a successful football team and not as razed, raged up"
Don't worry, in the even Glazer really feck off, there'll be consortium and other investor comming in to take the responsible, probably refinancing and stuff. The Bank is not interested to sell OT or anything.
SImply put, United are more valuable alive than dead.
I would never wish ill on United and relegation would be an ill
and relegation would be an ill