Would Ronaldo have been so adored if he played football in this current era

[Bastian]

Looking up PSV's season with Ronaldo and momentarily he was there with Mitchell van der Gaag - before the latter left for Motherwell in January '95. Ronaldo scored 35 goals for them in 36 matches.

On topic: Injuries aside, he'd be the best #9 in the world by far.

 

[Theonas]

Maybe not in his later career but he absolutely could throughout the first half of his career

Well there you go, if you're looking for the pattern. I watched an interview with RvN recently where he said his favorite goal is the one he scored vs Fulham when he ran from halfway line past a bunch of players and scored. It's the reason Maradona's goal vs England is considered the best goal of all time. That ability to control the ball at high speed and opponents just can't get it off you is the one quality that is found between Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Messi and few others. It's not enough to win you football games, it's not quantifiable but it's the one thing that no player who is not great can do. There are lot of players who can shoot from distance, obviously not the same consistency or accuracy but it's relatable. Dribbling and going past a sea of players is something that can't be taught or trained or learned. Hence it inspires this adulation and love that CR misses. It's all a spectrum though, that's not to say CR could never do it but you'd be obtuse to argue he could to the same level as the ones mentioned above. Again that doesn't alone a great player make, but we're talking here about what gets you spoken about in such romantic terms or as you call them "vague feelings".

 

[jm99]

Well there you go, if you're looking for the pattern. I watched an interview with RvN recently where he said his favorite goal is the one he scored vs Fulham when he ran from halfway line past a bunch of players and scored. It's the reason Maradona's goal vs England is considered the best goal of all time. That ability to control the ball at high speed and opponents just can't get it off you is the one quality that is found between Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho and Messi and few others. It's not enough to win you football games, it's not quantifiable but it's the one thing that no player who is not great can do. There are lot of players who can shoot from distance, obviously not the same consistency or accuracy but it's relatable. Dribbling and going past a sea of players is something that can't be taught or trained or learned. Hence it inspires this adulation and love that CR misses. It's all a spectrum though, that's not to say CR could never do it but you'd be obtuse to argue he could to the same level as the ones mentioned above. Again that doesn't alone a great player make, but we're talking here about what gets you spoken about in such romantic terms or as you call them "vague feelings".

I wouldn't really include Zidane in that, he wasn't particularly pacy, he could beat a man but he definitely has less solo goals and dribbles than Cristiano. And I think you certainly wouldn't have him Ronaldinho or r9 ahead of Cristiano. For the first half of his career he wasn't as good as Messi at dribbling but I'd put him up against the other modern players.

Hatem Ben arfa is an incredible dribbler, and I certainly wouldn't have him down as a great, I mean he's seriously good at it.

I think you just value certisn traits but ultimately how good a footballer is, is how much impact they have on their teams results, this is why attackers are usually ranked higher, because their goals impact games, very elite midfielders like xavi or Zidane can be considered greats because their impact on games is huge outside goalscoring, but they still aren't considered on the same level as the very elite attackers. Maybe the others are better to watch or whatever, but in terms of effectiveness, using their skills and abilities to win games, Ronaldo and Messi are basically unmatched. Zidane's performance against Brazil for example is remembered as great but only because France won, if someone on the Brazilian team had scored 2 goals even if they weren't Zidane's fault and he couldn't have stopped the goals, its wouldn't matter, the goals would change the game and the performance is consigned to history. It's remembered because it won the game, its how a player translates their ability into effectiveness that is how good that player is.

How entertaining a player is to watch or how skilled is another matter, but best player is a matter of effectiveness

 

[Zehner]

CR7 and R9 were completely different players. Even in his most dynamic days, CR7 albeit being a world class dribbler at his best was never close to R9's dribbling skills. Which is no shame because R9 is arguably the best dribbler in history with his combination of ball control, explosiveness, top speed, anticipation, agility and strength.

I think you could say, R9 was unbelievable because he seemed to defy logic, leaving you wondering how the hell you should defend a player like that. CR7 was unbelievable because he did less outrageous stuff with insane consistency. But those plays didn't defy logic or had you thinking you couldn't defend him, quite often he had rather anonymous games but ended up scoring. The unbelievable part was that he did that 20 times in a row, now how he did it.

 

[Zehner]

I wouldn't really include Zidane in that, he wasn't particularly pacy, he could beat a man but he definitely has less solo goals and dribbles than Cristiano. And I think you certainly wouldn't have him Ronaldinho or r9 ahead of Cristiano. For the first half of his career he wasn't as good as Messi at dribbling but I'd put him up against the other modern players.

Hatem Ben arfa is an incredible dribbler, and I certainly wouldn't have him down as a great, I mean he's seriously good at it.

I think you just value certisn traits but ultimately how good a footballer is, is how much impact they have on their teams results, this is why attackers are usually ranked higher, because their goals impact games, very elite midfielders like xavi or Zidane can be considered greats because their impact on games is huge outside goalscoring, but they still aren't considered on the same level as the very elite attackers. Maybe the others are better to watch or whatever, but in terms of effectiveness, using their skills and abilities to win games, Ronaldo and Messi are basically unmatched. Zidane's performance against Brazil for example is remembered as great but only because France won, if someone on the Brazilian team had scored 2 goals even if they weren't Zidane's fault and he couldn't have stopped the goals, its wouldn't matter, the goals would change the game and the performance is consigned to history. It's remembered because it won the game, its how a player translates their ability into effectiveness that is how good that player is.

How entertaining a player is to watch or how skilled is another matter, but best player is a matter of effectiveness

If you think Ben Arfa is a world class dribbler, I believe you don't know what to look at. Dribbling isn't only the ability to go past a player, it is also the ability to do it in a productive way. There's a reason that the best dribblers in history are those with great vision, awareness of their surroundings as well as anticipation and a feel where space will open up. Ben Arfa is lacking all that which is why so few of his dribblings had any positive impact.

 

[jm99]

If you think Ben Arfa is a world class dribbler, I believe you don't know what to look at. Dribbling isn't only the ability to go past a player, it is also the ability to do it in a productive way. There's a reason that the best dribblers in history are those with great vision, awareness of their surroundings as well as anticipation and a feel where space will open up. Ben Arfa is lacking all that which is why so few of his dribblings had any positive impact.

The poster I replied to literally described it as the ability to go past players at high speed and the opponent can't get it off you, by that definition Ben arfa certainly qualifies as great. Tbh I thought for the first half of his career cr7 was a great dribbler, but he had a tendency to look to draw the foul as a result of the dribble rather than score off a long run or make a pass, and maybe it's the right decision, at least for whats most advantageous, but I think it harmed his reputation as a great dribbler when he definitely had the skill and pace

 

[antohan]

they managed 63 goals in 2018 /19 after Ronaldo left, they got knocked out at the last 16 after 8 consecutive semi finals in the champions league. And the striker they had was benzema who isn't exactly shit. A team can be a super team but at the same time that doesn't guarantee the attacker goals. Managing 63 without Ronaldo is a poor haul, no matter how good the players are

You are overlooking the fact they also changed manager from Zidane to Lopetegui and (randomly) Solari.

 

[Zehner]

The poster I replied to literally described it as the ability to go past players at high speed and the opponent can't get it off you, by that definition Ben arfa certainly qualifies as great. Tbh I thought for the first half of his career cr7 was a great dribbler, but he had a tendency to look to draw the foul as a result of the dribble rather than score off a long run or make a pass, and maybe it's the right decision, at least for whats most advantageous, but I think it harmed his reputation as a great dribbler when he definitely had the skill and pace

I think what harmed his reputation as a great dribbler is that he decided to stop being a great dribbler. Partly because he bulked up so much that he had to sacrifice agility but also because he wanted to focus on goals to an even higher extent. One way or another, he wasn't an all time great dribbler even before that. Very good and among the best of his generation but not more. I'd say there were at least 10 players whose primes overlapped with his who are/were clearly better than him at dribbling (Messi, Neymar, Hazard, Robben, Ribery, Ronaldinho, Vinicius Jr., Mbappe, Iniesta, Henry).

 

[Theonas]

I wouldn't really include Zidane in that, he wasn't particularly pacy, he could beat a man but he definitely has less solo goals and dribbles than Cristiano. And I think you certainly wouldn't have him Ronaldinho or r9 ahead of Cristiano. For the first half of his career he wasn't as good as Messi at dribbling but I'd put him up against the other modern players.

Hatem Ben arfa is an incredible dribbler, and I certainly wouldn't have him down as a great, I mean he's seriously good at it.

I think you just value certisn traits but ultimately how good a footballer is, is how much impact they have on their teams results, this is why attackers are usually ranked higher, because their goals impact games, very elite midfielders like xavi or Zidane can be considered greats because their impact on games is huge outside goalscoring, but they still aren't considered on the same level as the very elite attackers. Maybe the others are better to watch or whatever, but in terms of effectiveness, using their skills and abilities to win games, Ronaldo and Messi are basically unmatched. Zidane's performance against Brazil for example is remembered as great but only because France won, if someone on the Brazilian team had scored 2 goals even if they weren't Zidane's fault and he couldn't have stopped the goals, its wouldn't matter, the goals would change the game and the performance is consigned to history. It's remembered because it won the game, its how a player translates their ability into effectiveness that is how good that player is.

How entertaining a player is to watch or how skilled is another matter, but best player is a matter of effectiveness

Come on man, seriously? I used speed when referring to Ronaldo in particular. I said the pattern you're looking for is players who can control the ball among a sea of players dribbling with pace or without. I clearly mentioned Zidane who no one would argue was a fast player. I also stated clearly that that alone does not make a great player. The conversation is about what gets you adoration and gets people romanticize you. If you're really struggling to understand the essence of it, it's players you can trust to give the ball surrounded by 4 or 5 players and more often than not, they will find a way out a create space. It requires a combination of pace, strength and balet like balance where it feels like the ball is struckc to their feet. Zidane didn't even need the pace which is why he's probably a tad below the others.

I am sorry but if you really think Ben Arfa is that player, please just refer to what @Zehner wrote, oh and also, I didn't think I needed to mention that you need to do it at the highest level in the biggest games consistenly. There is no point bringing up that one game or time when that player could do this. The players I am talking about did it so often that they generated this "vague feelings" as you put them, football fans just got excited when the ball was at their feet or passed to them because they knew it could happen at any moment.

Zidane's performance would be remembered regardless of the result. Same as Holland and Brazil 1970 are remembered more fondly than some actualy WC winners. Football is unique in that it has a side to it that can be measured by results and numbers like a business, and another side that is more like music and is only measured by the feelings it generates from people when they witness the thing. Greatness is usually a combination of the two. But we are talking on this thread purely about the latter; adoration. CR falls short in the former hence why many adore Ronaldo more than him but whereas he is overall greater or not is a question of the overall package. Let's put it like this X factor refers to this je ne sais quoi I am talking about and efficiency refers to things like stats, trophies won, consistency etc... These are not thought out numbers but just something to illustrate a point.
X factor Efficiency
Messi 10 10
Zidane 9 6
Ronaldinho 10 6
Ronaldo 9 7
CR 7 10

If let's say overall greatness is a split of 50/50, that would still give CR an overall 8,5 which is higher than everyone on the list. Some individuals will calculate it as more of a 60/40 or 40/60 coefficient depending on each's preference and sensibilities.That's my attempt at explaining how we consider greatness and what factors we consider. But love and adoration is usually 80/20 or 90/10 which is why the first four players get a lot of it despite not being particularly efficient in comparison except Messi.

 

[CrockedRain]

This is a wild take.

Give me your arguments, If you think:
-EURO all time top scorer and assister
-The man who scored most competitive international goals ever (And did that in non Europe/SA giant)
-The man who pulled as many legendary performances as almost any "NT GOATs"
-That won the EURO as the underdog
-That has 3 Team of tournaments appearances

Is a wild take then i fail to see it. Brazil was the clear cut favourite to win in 1994 (R9 didn't play), 1998, and up there with France and Italy in 2002. Portugal never made it to the top 5 in any WC, According to bookies:
2006:9th
2010:9th
2014:13th
2018:9th

In the EUROs the story was similar (Portugal won 2016 with the 7th best odds pre-tournament, The best "overperformance" since 1980 excluding Greece). And you know something? I went all the way down to 1970 and there wasn't a single instance of a WC winner which wasn't among the top 5 favourites to win. Cristiano never had a chance and yet finished with what i consider more impressive NT career than R9.

That said i only claimed he has a case, Which i laid down here, My opinion isn't conclusive yet (It's conclusive about club performance, Cristiano indeed surpassed R9 by 2011, 2012 at the latest).

 

[Righteous Steps]

If you think Ben Arfa is a world class dribbler, I believe you don't know what to look at. Dribbling isn't only the ability to go past a player, it is also the ability to do it in a productive way. There's a reason that the best dribblers in history are those with great vision, awareness of their surroundings as well as anticipation and a feel where space will open up. Ben Arfa is lacking all that which is why so few of his dribblings had any positive impact.

Ben Arfa was a world class dribbler, you can be a world class dribbler and not a world class player. R9 was not only a world class dribbler, but was faster than every other player in the world, 6ft and strong, had a beautiful touch and could also score goals.

Ben Arfa was world class technically, but not world class tactically, and he had a poor mentality, talent wise though there are few players in the last 20 years who you could say was more talented.

 

[CrockedRain]

I think what harmed his reputation as a great dribbler is that he decided to stop being a great dribbler. Partly because he bulked up so much that he had to sacrifice agility but also because he wanted to focus on goals to an even higher extent. One way or another, he wasn't an all time great dribbler even before that. Very good and among the best of his generation but not more. I'd say there were at least 10 players whose primes overlapped with his who are/were clearly better than him at dribbling (Messi, Neymar, Hazard, Robben, Ribery, Ronaldinho, Vinicius Jr., Mbappe, Iniesta, Henry).

Henry, Mbappe and Vinicius weren't/aren't a better dribbling threat than 2004-2010 Cristiano (Same age as Mbappe/Vinicus approximately), Let alone "clearly better". Not statistically, Not in terms of solo goals nor in terms of eye test. The disrespect this man gets is honestly baffling.
Cristiano between 2004-2010:
3.41 dribbles per 90m in the UCL+Premier League/La Liga
Mbappe 2017-2023 (Same age range as Cristiano more or less):
3 dribbles per 90m in the UCL+Ligue 1 (6th ranked league in the world)
Vinicius 2018-2023:
3.1 dribbles per 90m in UCL+La Liga+Brazilian League

Cristiano had higher success rate than both too. Cristiano was vastly superior ball carrier to Mbappe around the same age (He was the leading ball carrier in Europe in 2007 and 2010, Yes above Messi). Cristiano was the type of player to pull you LEGENDARY dribbling performance at level only Messi and Neymar could, Mbappe never had dribbling performance like Cristiano had against Rome and Benfica, Non of the names you listed except Messi pulled a better UCL final dribbling performance than Cristiano against Chelsea (10 dribbles completed against the toughest defence in Europe at the time).

His first season in Madrid:
twitter.com/Sendo922/status/1645016522509758464

He played like this up until 2013-2014, Although with slightly lower frequency (But just as much capacity i believe) and slightly more efficiency.

 

[harms]

Well again during ronaldo's one season in la liga his Barca side scored 102 goals, which wouldn't have been out of place for the teams Messi and Ronaldo played on, albeit they individually scored more than 34 goals increasing their sides total. So the goals per game wasn't different, the difference in points between the top 2 and the rest wasn't different, yet still you want to argue it was much easier for Messi and Ronaldo. This is why some people hate stats, because it doesn't fit with the feeling they had about the league being harder then, even though the stats don't show it

It’s funny that you’ve used the 42 game argument (La Liga in 1996/97 had 22 teams, giving them 4 more games) when it suited you but you conveniently forgot about it while listing Barca’s overall goals scored. This is why some people hate stats.

 

[Oranges038]

Yeah.

He'd tear these weak ass modern day defenders to pieces.

 

[kouroux]

It’s funny that you’ve used the 42 game argument (La Liga in 1996/97 had 22 teams, giving them 4 more games) when it suited you but you conveniently forget about it when listing Barca’s overall goals scored. This is why some people hate stats.

surely a genuine mistake

 

[Joel Miller]

Give me your arguments, If you think:
-EURO all time top scorer and assister
-The man who scored most competitive international goals ever (And did that in non Europe/SA giant)
-The man who pulled as many legendary performances as almost any "NT GOATs"
-That won the EURO as the underdog
-That has 3 Team of tournaments appearances

Is a wild take then i fail to see it. Brazil was the clear cut favourite to win in 1994 (R9 didn't play), 1998, and up there with France and Italy in 2002. Portugal never made it to the top 5 in any WC, According to bookies:
2006:9th
2010:9th
2014:13th
2018:9th

In the EUROs the story was similar (Portugal won 2016 with the 7th best odds pre-tournament, The best "overperformance" since 1980 excluding Greece). And you know something? I went all the way down to 1970 and there wasn't a single instance of a WC winner which wasn't among the top 5 favourites to win. Cristiano never had a chance and yet finished with what i consider more impressive NT career than R9.

That said i only claimed he has a case, Which i laid down here, My opinion isn't conclusive yet (It's conclusive about club performance, Cristiano indeed surpassed R9 by 2011, 2012 at the latest).

Who was the all time international scorer before CR7? I assume whomever it was must be right up there with the very best to play the game also. I also find it vexing (but not surprising) when Ronaldo acolytes try and use Euro 2016 as a means of trying to elevate his international exploits. This is because he really didn’t play particularly well, he wasn’t the best player in his team, his team won one solitary game in 90 minutes through the entire tournament, and they only faced one top side which was in the final, that for the most part Ronaldo sat and watched as a spectator with the rest of us.

It also irks me how people frequently speak about Portugal as though they’re Finland or Latvia, and it was this crazy underdog story akin to Greece in 2004. As opposed to reality, where Portugal are actually a side whose European championship record since Euro 96 has seen them become finalists twice, semi finalists twice and quarter finalists twice. They’re not exactly a plucky little underdog who’re just happy if they can get out of the groups. Also, the idea Ronaldo regularly produced legendary dribbling performances in way off, and I can only assume based on numbers pulled from a website as it so often is with that player:

 

[Andrade]

Cristiano NT career is possibly better than R9. He's the Euro top scorer and 1 off from being the top assister as well, He scored 122 goals, All in competitive matches. His peak performance are as good as any all time great player in the national shirt, Spain 2018, Holland 2012, Sweden 2013 with couple of good/great performance against Germany 2020, Hungary 2016, Czech Republic 2008 (Which was rated 7th in the world before the EURO according ELO, Portugal was 19th btw) and many more in the qualifications (Which always been a problem for a small NT like Portugal).

And something very crucial that nobody seem to mention when this discussion arise, And it's Portugal being a non-contender in every single tournament they played (Except 2022 Worldcap with "past it" Cristiano), In fact, Portugal only qualified for 3 WC's and EURO between 1930-2006, 76 years before Ronaldo debut, Out of possible 36 tournaments, With him they never failed to qualify even once to either. He never had a chance to begin with yet managed to achieve *WAY* above the expectations (Which recently revisionists try to claim Portugal was always elite national team by riding their current impressive squad and success in the past 20 years, Failing to mention that Portugal success is directly a result of Cristiano presence, Ironic).

Also, I don't think R9 ever had the liability of needing to step up and "carry" his team, With Portugal it was "Ronaldo pull a great performance or we lose", At least up until recent years.

At club level it's a non-discussion, Cristiano basically provided better peak seasons, consistency and big game performances than R9 by 2012, And i feel like i'm being generous to R9 here tbh.

Complete nonsense. R9 scored as many goals in one World Cup as C. Ronaldo managed in 5. He is a 3 time international champion and has been top scorer and best player in both major competitions: CR has been best player in neither.

There is a Peruvian player (a SA legend in fact) with more World Cup goals than Ronaldo, just to counter this nonsense that his lack of personal success in big tournaments is down to him playing for Portugal. There are Croatian and Uruguyan players with WC golden ball awards, which CR also doesn't have. Not to mention that Portugal rose to prominence again before he came into the team and they started getting far in big tournaments when he was still a teenager and Figo was the leader of the team, with a lot of other good players. Fair enough he led a worse side to glory in 2016 but he scored 3 goals, the same as Nani.

Contrast that with the 9 goals that Platini scored in 1984, setting the all time record for total goals in the Euros in one tournament, which CR broke after playing in 5 tournaments.

There is no comparison between the two at international level, and CR playing for much longer and scoring dozens of goals in qualifiers against minnows doesn't change that fact.

 

[Andrade]

Who was the all time international scorer before CR7? I assume whomever it was must be right up there with the very best to play the game also. I also find it vexing (but not surprising) when Ronaldo acolytes try and use Euro 2016 as a means of trying to elevate his international exploits. This is because he really didn’t play particularly well, he wasn’t the best player in his team, his team won one solitary game in 90 minutes through the entire tournament, and they only faced one top side which was in the final, that for the most part Ronaldo sat and watched as a spectator with the rest of us.

It also irks me how people frequently speak about Portugal as though they’re Finland or Latvia, and it was this crazy underdog story akin to Greece in 2004. As opposed to reality, where Portugal are actually a side whose European championship record since Euro 96 has seen them become finalists twice, semi finalists twice and quarter finalists twice. They’re not exactly a plucky little underdog who’re just happy if they can get out of the groups. Also, the idea Ronaldo regularly produced legendary dribbling performances in way off, and I can only assume based on numbers pulled from a website as it so often is with that player:

Portugal have been turned into what you describe by CR fans in order to excuse his underwhelming performances in international tournaments.

 

[Andrade]

Thats just ridiculous, r9 had two good seasons, neither of which would break cristiano's top 5. Cristiano has more goals from the semi finals onwards in the champions league than r9 has in total. He has him beat in both longevity and peak, and people saying otherwise are clouded by nostalgia

How old are you?

 

[11101]

Give me your arguments, If you think:
-EURO all time top scorer and assister
-The man who scored most competitive international goals ever (And did that in non Europe/SA giant)
-The man who pulled as many legendary performances as almost any "NT GOATs"
-That won the EURO as the underdog
-That has 3 Team of tournaments appearances

Is a wild take then i fail to see it. Brazil was the clear cut favourite to win in 1994 (R9 didn't play), 1998, and up there with France and Italy in 2002. Portugal never made it to the top 5 in any WC, According to bookies:
2006:9th
2010:9th
2014:13th
2018:9th

In the EUROs the story was similar (Portugal won 2016 with the 7th best odds pre-tournament, The best "overperformance" since 1980 excluding Greece). And you know something? I went all the way down to 1970 and there wasn't a single instance of a WC winner which wasn't among the top 5 favourites to win. Cristiano never had a chance and yet finished with what i consider more impressive NT career than R9.

That said i only claimed he has a case, Which i laid down here, My opinion isn't conclusive yet (It's conclusive about club performance, Cristiano indeed surpassed R9 by 2011, 2012 at the latest).

You have to consider why Brazil were favourites in 98 and 02. It was because they had Ronaldo. It's true there were other great players in those teams, but the same is true of Portugal. It was never just Cristiano. Yet Cristiano never hit the heights that R9 did.

And the same goes for Argentina and Messi for that matter. Nobody wins these tournaments on their own. Only Maradona has (arguably) done that.

 

[Daydreamer]

Give me your arguments, If you think:
-EURO all time top scorer and assister
-The man who scored most competitive international goals ever (And did that in non Europe/SA giant)
-The man who pulled as many legendary performances as almost any "NT GOATs"
-That won the EURO as the underdog
-That has 3 Team of tournaments appearances

Is a wild take then i fail to see it. Brazil was the clear cut favourite to win in 1994 (R9 didn't play), 1998, and up there with France and Italy in 2002. Portugal never made it to the top 5 in any WC, According to bookies:
2006:9th
2010:9th
2014:13th
2018:9th

In the EUROs the story was similar (Portugal won 2016 with the 7th best odds pre-tournament, The best "overperformance" since 1980 excluding Greece). And you know something? I went all the way down to 1970 and there wasn't a single instance of a WC winner which wasn't among the top 5 favourites to win. Cristiano never had a chance and yet finished with what i consider more impressive NT career than R9.

That said i only claimed he has a case, Which i laid down here, My opinion isn't conclusive yet (It's conclusive about club performance, Cristiano indeed surpassed R9 by 2011, 2012 at the latest).

CR7 won the Euros once with CR7 as a glorified cheerleader in the final.

R9 won the his equivalent competition, the Copa America, twice.

CR7 scored as many goals in the knockout stages of the World Cup as I have. None.

R9 won the World Cup. Twice. Had he not suffered a seizure in 98, he may well have emulated Pele’s hat-trick of World Cup medals.

Tell me, if CR7’s and R9’s achievements were reversed, would you honestly be arguing that R9 had the better international career? Honestly?

 

[Andrade]

CR7 won the Euros once with CR7 as a glorified cheerleader in the final.

R9 won the his equivalent competition, the Copa America, twice.

CR7 scored as many goals in the knockout stages of the World Cup as I have. None.

R9 won the World Cup. Twice. Had he not suffered a seizure in 98, he may well have emulated Pele’s hat-trick of World Cup medals.

Tell me, if CR7’s and R9’s achievements were reversed, would you honestly be arguing that R9 had the better international career? Honestly?

Of course not. It's a ridiculous stance to take.

Also, I forgot about the WC KO round goals. How can you seriously claim that a guy with zero goals in the KO rounds of the WC (and only 3 in the Euros IIRC) had a better international career than R9? It's fanboy madness.

BTW, I thought this thread was supposed to be about R9 only?

 

[Lay]

Brazil weren’t favourites in 2002. They almost missed out on qualifying without Ronaldo and needed to win their last game against Venezuela. At the World Cup many predicted it was quarter finals at best for them (if it went to plan, they’d face France in the quarters)

If you remember, Romario scored 8 goals in that horrible qualifying but was then overlooked for the tournament and it caused huge uproar and the Brazilian camp was in chaos.

 

[jeepers]

He would be adored by the neutrals, for sure. He was too good, and would still be too good in the current game, especially where defending has changed and is less “pure”. Would love to see him play against Maguire.

Would also love to see more players like him and Ronaldinho, the ones who were born to play football and seemed to genuinely enjoy it - it was their joie de vivre. Football nowadays is too stats driven.

 

[Swoobs]

There will be a true big 2 if R9 played in this era, both south americans, but he has to play for one of the super teams to stats pad and win more trophies. He will also sit on the same table as Pele, Maradona and Messi at the end of his career

 

[youngrell]

He would be adored by the neutrals, for sure. He was too good, and would still be too good in the current game, especially where defending has changed and is less “pure”. Would love to see him play against Maguire.

Would also love to see more players like him and Ronaldinho, the ones who were born to play football and seemed to genuinely enjoy it - it was their joie de vivre. Football nowadays is too stats driven.

He would have a field day against today’s high line defences and sweeper keepers.

Didn’t he already score something like 80-90 goals rounding the keeper? It would be a bloodbath.

 

[Andrade]

Brazil weren’t favourites in 2002. They almost missed out on qualifying without Ronaldo and needed to win their last game against Venezuela. At the World Cup many predicted it was quarter finals at best for them (if it went to plan, they’d face France in the quarters)

If you remember, Romario scored 8 goals in that horrible qualifying but was then overlooked for the tournament and it caused huge uproar and the Brazilian camp was in chaos.

Brazil were 4th favourites in 2002 behind Argentina, France and Italy. And if you know anything about Brazil and the oddsmakers, you'll know that is a big deal because Brazil are ALWAYS the favourites going into any World Cup. 2022 was no different.

 

[Swoobs]

Brazil were 4th favourites in 2002 behind Argentina, France and Italy. And if you know anything about Brazil and the oddsmakers, you'll know that is a big deal because Brazil are ALWAYS the favourites going into any World Cup. 2022 was no different.

Brings back memories. Those 4 teams (as well as the dutch) were stacked to the brim, then we compare to the national teams today, only France is truly stacked.

 

[Rozay]

He’s possibly the best player ever, certainly the best striker. He would be adored by all, although would be fought over by oil clubs and might have spent his best years in Paris.

 

[dumbo]

Yes. Ronaldo was one of those extremely rare, freak talents, like Maradona and Messi.

Take the top echelon of his era, the likes of Zidane, Rivaldo, Henry, Maldini, etc. Brilliant, legendary players and yet Ronaldo was better than all of them. Not just by a bit but clearly, without any (reasonable) argument. And you would only need to watch him a few times to realise it.

He was just different.

 

[Physiocrat]

These threads always show how incapable some are of understanding the differences between eras.

• 'Never won the Champions League' - he never played in the Champions League at the peak of his powers.
• 'Who cares about his record in the Cup Winners Cup / UEFA Cup' - the EC/CL was always number one, but there really wasn't a big difference between the 3 competitions at the time. The gulf opened up from the 2000s onward when 4 teams from the big countries entered. Prior to that, there was often better depth in the other European competitions. For example, you don't get a battle today like you did in the 1998 ECWC Final between arguably the greatest all-round centre-forward and the greatest all-round centre-back of all time. The only place for such a clash today would be the final stages of the Champions League.
• 'Don't count his time at PSV as relevant' - There was no major gulf between the various leagues at the time, this opened up as resources were swallowed up by the big leagues in the last two decades. Ronaldo joined a Dutch league which had the best team in the world in Ajax, who won the CL that year, had won the UEFA Cup a couple of years earlier, and where PSV had also won the European Cup a couple of years prior to that. His performances there as a 17-19 year-old are very much part of the conversation of his peak level.

One of the only things that has stayed fairly constant over the last 25 years have been major international competitions (not including the expansion of the Euros and the qualification system). Ronaldo's awesome record there in 97, 98, 99 and 02 shows how well he compares when we are looking at like-for-like, and also show how devastating he would have been with an elite, expensively resourced and expertly managed club side behind him.

Top post Gio.

On a slightly different subject, imagine how many goals Gerd Muller would score at a super team today. Those numbers would be unreal.

 

[Gehrman]

These threads always show how incapable some are of understanding the differences between eras.

• 'Never won the Champions League' - he never played in the Champions League at the peak of his powers.
• 'Who cares about his record in the Cup Winners Cup / UEFA Cup' - the EC/CL was always number one, but there really wasn't a big difference between the 3 competitions at the time. The gulf opened up from the 2000s onward when 4 teams from the big countries entered. Prior to that, there was often better depth in the other European competitions. For example, you don't get a battle today like you did in the 1998 ECWC Final between arguably the greatest all-round centre-forward and the greatest all-round centre-back of all time. The only place for such a clash today would be the final stages of the Champions League.
• 'Don't count his time at PSV as relevant' - There was no major gulf between the various leagues at the time, this opened up as resources were swallowed up by the big leagues in the last two decades. Ronaldo joined a Dutch league which had the best team in the world in Ajax, who won the CL that year, had won the UEFA Cup a couple of years earlier, and where PSV had also won the European Cup a couple of years prior to that. His performances there as a 17-19 year-old are very much part of the conversation of his peak level.

One of the only things that has stayed fairly constant over the last 25 years have been major international competitions (not including the expansion of the Euros and the qualification system). Ronaldo's awesome record there in 97, 98, 99 and 02 shows how well he compares when we are looking at like-for-like, and also show how devastating he would have been with an elite, expensively resourced and expertly managed club side behind him.

This completely.

 

[Andrade]

He’s possibly the best player ever, certainly the best striker. He would be adored by all, although would be fought over by oil clubs and might have spent his best years in Paris.

Yes indeed

 

[(...)]

I genuinely think that for certain players, you had to be old enough when they played to really get how they impacted football.
Ronaldo is in that category for me. Pre-injury Ronaldo was a unique player, and everybody in the world instantly recognized how special he was.
This article gives a good account of what we all felt at that time : https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ronaldo-barcelona-inter-serie-a-la-liga-italy
Baggio : "He came from the future. He played football with technique and speed ahead of his time. I saw him do things that were unthinkable, which no one had done or thought of until then. He was unique.”
Buffon : "He was an alien among humans"
Cannavaro : "Ronaldo was the only player who really stirred fear in me. Just walking on the same pitch as he did was terrifying for me"

 

[matherto]

Brings back memories. Those 4 teams (as well as the dutch) were stacked to the brim, then we compare to the national teams today, only France is truly stacked.

Which makes it even more interesting that France and Argentina went out in the groups and the Dutch didn't qualify. Was a strange WC 2002.

 

[Sky1981]

If he's so godly why dont he score more?

 

[dumbo]

Because he retired.

 

[11101]

Brazil weren’t favourites in 2002. They almost missed out on qualifying without Ronaldo and needed to win their last game against Venezuela. At the World Cup many predicted it was quarter finals at best for them (if it went to plan, they’d face France in the quarters)

If you remember, Romario scored 8 goals in that horrible qualifying but was then overlooked for the tournament and it caused huge uproar and the Brazilian camp was in chaos.

A large part of why they weren't favourites was because Ronaldo was considered finished. He'd spent most of the previous 3 seasons out injured and had only played in the last 4 games before the World Cup started (although he did score 4 goals in them). It was miraculous that he then went on to score 8 times including both goals in the final.

 

[Zehner]

The ignorance in CR7 related threads is really mindblowing. You guys only ruin your own experience of football if you can't enjoy other players.

 

[JPRouve]

A large part of why they weren't favourites was because Ronaldo was considered finished. He'd spent most of the previous 3 seasons out injured and had only played in the last 4 games before the World Cup started (although he did score 4 goals in them). It was miraculous that he then went on to score 8 times including both goals in the final.

I still remember waking up early to see Ronaldo comeback games with Brazil. As you said there were question marks above his head, I don't remember people thinking that he was finished but simply having no clue about whether he would be ready. And he was, he cameback at a similar level than the best players which is kind of baffling.