Still think he was the most exciting all round striker I’ve ever seen. Could do anything; left foot, right foot, head, pace to burn, those body swerves. Such a shame that injuries limited his best to only a few seasons. Still with one leg he was better than many
Would Ronaldo have been so adored if he played football in this current era
- Thread starter Sir Erik ten Hag
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That is why I value eyes and memory over stats. It's gone too far these days. Some have merit but people take them as gospel and it's wrong in many cases.
No, I'd expect players to come along that will surpass him, I'm sure unless one of those players happens to play for united I won't feel the same affinity for them, but no I'd be certain players will come by that will be much better. I mean even look at countries like India and China, you've got player pools there that are essentially untapped, or don't get proper training and the like anyway, with a population that's bigger than the rest of the football playing world combined. It would be statistically massively unlikely if there weren't players like Messi and Ronaldo among those populations that just never received training.
But whether Ronaldo would be adored or not has little to do with Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi, it has barely anything to do with titles or goals.
At the end of the day, this is the illustration of something that you can see sometimes on the caf and on social medias like twitter. People who pretend to like a sport but don't actually watch current games or watched older games, everything is judged based on stats and silverware, wikipedia has somehow become the main source of live sport.
Ronaldo would be adored today because he was the best player on the field when he was fit, he was exciting, he had flair, power and speed. It's not a question of who is better, who is more efficient who's team won more but about the game of Football. For the same reason United fans will have love Giggs and Rooney forever, they may not be the best players ever but they were among the most enjoyable.
Compare their relative dominance, R9 lost the Capocannoniere to Bierhoff, Messi and Cristiano scored almost twice the amount a generational striker, Falcao, Scored in his peak during the same league season, And they weren't even strikers! (Well Messi 2012-2014 might've been, But still not in the traditional sense). Messi and Cristiano dominance between 2008-2015 was something we haven't seen in football since Pele in the 60s.
La Liga was best league in the world back then along with Serie A.
Your argument discredits United national successful period in the 90s too cause PL was 5th best league in Europe, and United didn't do much in the UCL until late 90s despite winning everything in England (5th best league in Europe back then).
But it does have to do with them. Players like suarez, lewandowski and ibra are less revered than they would be because they're always compared to Messi and Ronaldo and come up short, they would all have won ballon d'ors without them (well maybe not ibra). The same would happen to ronaldo, he would be compared to those two and come up short, I'm not saying he wouldn't be considered great, but he wouldn't have the same legacy
Ronaldo was a great player at his peak no doubt but this is my recollection of him as it happened. Not watching highlight reels.
PSV - Saw a young guy with great potential though limited viewing
Barca - Fantastic one season and I agree he looked unplayable at times.
WC 98 - played OK but saw more footage of his girlfriend to be honest. Hype Hype Hype
WC 02 - fantastic comeback and top scorer albeit in a fantastic team.
Honestly that's it bar the bloomin hat trick against us.
Really no comparison with Messi/CR7. Not even close.
All you've done is provide stats only and you've used them poorly too which is why I'd guess no one is really taking you seriously. There's pretty much zero context to your posts.
You're comparing a 19-23yo R9 to the peak versions of Ronaldo and Messi. Imagine both of their careers being cut short in 2010 and not considering the upward trajectory of their performances. There are players that come around once in a generation that would be as great in any era, if you watched Ronaldo rather than just his Wikipedia page you would easily be aware of this.
Your point about Madrid scoring 63 goals after he left is also another example of your cherry picked stats without context. Ronaldo left a team that was built for him and they replaced him with no one. Obviously they would score less. If any reasonable goalscorer that was fit and available was added to their team obviously they score more than 63.
No matter how good a domestic league is, performances within it have rarely been enough to justify the best player in the world tag, they've usually always had to be accompanied with great performances in the champions league. La liga during the time Messi and Ronaldo played consistently had europa league winners as well as atletico who reached 2 CL finals
The list of attackers of the same era Ronaldo and Messi dwarfed is no mean feat:
Neymar
Mbappe
Suarez
Lewandowski
Ibrahimovic
Bale
Cavani
Rooney
Drogba
Falcao
Harry Kane
Hazard
Aguero
Van Persie
Benzema
Salah
etc.
All fantastic players in their own right, and yet all universally acknowledged to be below the big 2.
I think if R9 played now he would be considered in the Neymar/Suarez/Mbappe category. Still a great, still absolutely unplayable, but definitely not beyond reproach.
They haven't cracked 80 since Ronaldo left and they've had benzema performing better and vinicius. They averaged over 100 with Ronaldo there. Similarly Barca never dropped below 85 with Messi there, and even that was as he'd started to decline, but without him they're on 60 this year and I think 64 last year.
I'm comparing them to those season because that's all we have, maybe he'd have improved but Messi peaked around 22, Rooney was unreal at 18 but never became that kind of player that he promised to be, plenty of players don't continue improving after such a promising start, maybe r9 would have kept improving and been the greatest player ever, or maybe he wouldn't have, that's just speculation we can only compare what we actually saw of him
If all that matters is trophies.
Then i guess you should support City or Madrid, you definitely would be happier.
This is my feeling as well. Had those two never played that list of attackers would all be held in much higher regard for the things they've done
That's an odd thing to say. I mean we're talking about how good a player was, I wouldn't try and argue we're a better side than city or Madrid at present, and I don't think acknowledging that means you should go and support another club
All these players (well most of them) had seasons when they were scoring over 40 goals. Which shows how much easier is to play in this new era.
By your standards they are above players like Maradona, Ronaldo, Romario.
And btw; only for die hard CR7 fans there is big 2. In reality, for any objective fan, it is Messi and then others.
And yet the goals per game of the leagues now are around the same as 90 serie a suggesting there aren't many more goals being scored
Ronaldo has the same pattern - look at Barcelona's goals per season before and after him:
94/95: 60
95/96: 72
96/97: 102
97/98: 78
98/99: 87
And at Inter his first campaign was their highest scoring season since 1965 when they were the best team in Europe. And that's despite as @Bobski says the next top scorer netting a paltry 7 goals.
I thought it was pretty obvious that the superteams are racking up more points and goals nowadays.
It's no coincidence that the highest scoring individual seasons in the last 50 years across all the major leagues just happen to be in the last decade or so.
Serie A - 2015/16 Higuain / 2019/20 Immobile - 36 goals (yet the highest Ronaldo and Van Basten could get was 25)
La Liga - 2011/12 Messi - 50 goals
Bundesliga - 2020/21 Lewandowski - 41 goals
EPL - 2022/23 Haaland - 35+ goals
Ligue Un - 2015/16 Ibrahimovic - 38 goals
It's no coincidence that the highest points-scoring club campaigns in the last 50 years across the major leagues happen to be in the last decade or so (factors in best points-per-game rate):
Serie A - 2013/14 Juventus - 102 points
La Liga - 2011/12 and 2012/13 Barcelona and Real - 100 points
Bundesliga - 2012/13 Bayern - 91 points
EPL - 2017/18 Man City - 100 points
Ligue Un - 2015/16 PSG - 96 points
I want arguing that r9 didn't contribute goals to Barca, the point I was making is that real only looked like a super team in terms of goals because of Cristiano, as shown be the 63 they scored the season after he left. Which hardly looks like a team that inflates their attackers goals. Same with Messi since he's left Barca haven't cracked 65, suggesting that these clubs were benefiting far more from those players attacking play than vice versa.
Tbh I think it's more to do with tactics, coaches like pep have set things up so that they try to win every game, it used to be winning your home games and draw the away games, not all of them obviously but that was largely considered an OKish result, Pep has brought in an approach where you push the full backs forward more even away from home and look to win every game. For me I think that's the reason he fails a lot in the champions league, his approach can usually guarantee wins against weaker teams but when he's up against a team that's evenly matched the tactics don't work as well. But the statistics show us that the goals per game in the league isn't higher, that Madrid and Barca haven't managed any great scoring seasons without Messi and Ronaldo, the best real have managed is 80 in 5 years, even though they would often crack 110 with Ronaldo there.
People attributing their tallies to "superteams" just aren't looking at the actual facts
The Inter that Ronaldo played in was a very good team.
They had Simeone, Zamorano, Djorkaeff, Zanetti, and Aaron Winters...all highly rated as top players back then.
The thing is that Serie A was stacked, so they were other good teams like that in the league, Inter wasn't the only one.
He was the best Ronaldo, for me. And yeah, feck it, some of that is nostalgia, but who cares. I have fond memories of those World Cups. I was only young but still remember watching them like it was yesterday. I also watched a lot more La Liga football back then, and when he was in his pomp, he was so exciting to watch. Just an absolute phenomenon. Even when he ripped United a new one, it was almost a privilege to watch him.
He was also a bit of a character, which is so much better than the robotic, highly manicured, PR-spouting shite you get from most these days. And that always helps play into the legend.
So yeah, if he was around now, he would be adored and talked about with the likes of that other, far inferior, Ronaldo bloke.
He was also a bit of a character, which is so much better than the robotic, highly manicured, PR-spouting shite you get from most these days. And that always helps play into the legend.
So yeah, if he was around now, he would be adored and talked about with the likes of that other, far inferior, Ronaldo bloke.
Real with
Navas
Carvahal
Ramos
Pepe/Varane
Marcelo
Casemiro
Kroos
Modric
Ronaldo
Benzema
Bale
All in their prime together,
Not actually a super team apparently.
Navas
Carvahal
Ramos
Pepe/Varane
Marcelo
Casemiro
Kroos
Modric
Ronaldo
Benzema
Bale
All in their prime together,
Not actually a super team apparently.
Nah. They were trashing teams with 5:0, 6:0 only because of CR7.
All those players minus Ronaldo managed 63 goals the season after he left, and had averaged well over 100 the previous 9 seasons. Not that it wasn't a great team but Ronaldo was the reason for the huge goal tallies, he wasn't a beneficiary of it, he was the cause. Same with Messi at Barca, a great team, but he was the reason they scored so many, he wasn't benefiting from their goalscoring
Well they certainly weren't doing it without him the very next season
They also managed a CL title and two league titles. Interestingly they have won as much league titles without Ronaldo and his goals.
Might have had something to do with Barca stopping paying the referees in 2018, who knows. And Ronaldo won a CL and three leagues before he joined them with us. They hadn't reached a semi final in the champions league since 2003, then they make 8 in a row between 2011 and 2018, then knocked out at the last 16 the next two seasons.
Wrong, it's not nostalgia.
It's a fact that most talent is concentrated in the same 6-8 teams, Bayern has literally made a mock of the Bundesliga taking the best german players as soon as they can since mid 2000s, 10 leagues in a row...how the hell is this competitive?
Same for modern Juventus, they mocked Serie A with 9 titles in a row...old Juve was never close to this, because there were other teams around in Italy with high quality players, not because modern Juventus has better players than 30 years ago.
Platini has won less Serie A titles than Paulo Dybala, but he played in a stacked Serie A, Dybala played in a Serie A that was considered weak and mediocre even by most italians.
Also i saw you mocking Bundesliga and Serie A in other threads for being un-competitive and one team leagues, now you are praising them as strong because of Juve and Bayern dominance...at least be consistent.
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If he stayed at his peak, he'd be up there with Messi and Ronaldo, if he had the same career trajectory he would be much more scrutinised due to his injuries.
I think a lot of R9 is what could of been had he not been injured so badly.
I think a lot of R9 is what could of been had he not been injured so badly.
I see, if it suits Ronaldo you try to add context to stats.
I didn't praise them for juve and bayern dominance, I'd rate lewandowski's achievements highly because he's replicated it in the champions league, higuain I wouldn't have rated as highly. Ronaldo and Messi scored loads of goals in la liga, as soon as they left their teams goalscoring fell off a cliff to mid 60s rather than 100 plus. So it would seem the ridiculous goalscoring feats of mid 2010 real and Barca were a result of Messi and Ronaldo because as soon as they left the teams stopped scoring at such a ridiculous rate.
But again if they'd only done it in the domestic league and couldn't cut it in the champions league I'd say fair enough maybe it's a weak league, but they were both scoring consistently against other top sides
You got it slightly wrong.
Madrid's super team, especially in 16/17, was as a result of strength in depth, not necessarily first 11. The likes of Isco, Bale, Nacho, Pepe, Lucas Vasquez, Kovacic, James Rodriguez, Asensio, Morata etc, were regular bench features in an insanely deep and robust squad.
Not to say Madrid didn't have a super team, but it's easy to paint a picture that wasn't actually true. Madrid's first teamers were not all at their prime at the same time, nor were they super consistent in terms of performances.
Well if the context is your rival paying the referees I think yeah that's fairly important. And I have added context to stats, I've posted goals scored while they were there and after they left, the average goals per game of the respective leagues showing how defensive those leagues were with pretty much no difference, all these things are context. Your version of context is, I have a feelingg that r9 was unplayable that isn't reflected on stats, that isn't context, it's just your opinion
It’s funny how in the 2010s people would cry that Barcelona and Real Madrid had super teams and how unfair it was on the rest of La Liga with the tv money deal and La liga was called the ‘sunny SPL’.
But now they don’t have super teams. Interesting.
But now they don’t have super teams. Interesting.
They did have super teams, but what made these teams super teams, was the presence of the two best players in the world alongside these other players, without which they were just a very good side.
Trying to portray their teammates as responsible for their output when their team scored about 30 less goals as soon as they left is clearly incorrect. If Messi hadn't played for that Barca side and Ronaldo hadn't played for real, they'd be regarded as good teams but nowhere near the status they reached
That Barcelona and Real Madrid side was the cause of the Spanish dominance at international level. They won the World Cup with only 1 non Real Madrid/Barcelona player in the starting XI. That’s an unreal amount of talent
Yup, it’s this.
They were. Do you remember how many goals they scored at the 2010 wc? It was like one a game. No one is denying these teams were incredible, but they managed 63 goals in 2018 /19 after Ronaldo left, they got knocked out at the last 16 after 8 consecutive semi finals in the champions league. And the striker they had was benzema who isn't exactly shit. A team can be a super team but at the same time that doesn't guarantee the attacker goals. Managing 63 without Ronaldo is a poor haul, no matter how good the players are
I agree with this but also with the caveat of him not getting injured imo. I think the Injury would put him a tad below Neymar maybe. Hard to see how he would have been late career as plenty of promising Brazilians lost track even without Injury.
Either way, he would be up there but just not Messi/Ronaldo level. People don't appreciate what they did just yet.
They also won the Euros (second time) with another Real Madrid/Barcelona mix. I don’t think an outsider from those two started the final. The amount of talent surrounding Messi and CR7 was the best we’ve ever seen. Real Madrid haven’t looked back after CR7 left and well, Barcelona are a whole other story
