Would Ronaldo have been so adored if he played football in this current era

[FrankFoot]

Cristiano NT career is possibly better than R9. He's the Euro top scorer and 1 off from being the top assister as well, He scored 122 goals, All in competitive matches. His peak performance are as good as any all time great player in the national shirt, Spain 2018, Holland 2012, Sweden 2013 with couple of good/great performance against Germany 2020, Hungary 2016, Czech Republic 2008 (Which was rated 7th in the world before the EURO according ELO, Portugal was 19th btw) and many more in the qualifications (Which always been a problem for a small NT like Portugal).

And something very crucial that nobody seem to mention when this discussion arise, And it's Portugal being a non-contender in every single tournament they played (Except 2022 Worldcap with "past it" Cristiano), In fact, Portugal only qualified for 3 WC's and EURO between 1930-2006, 76 years before Ronaldo debut, Out of possible 36 tournaments, With him they never failed to qualify even once to either. He never had a chance to begin with yet managed to achieve *WAY* above the expectations (Which recently revisionists try to claim Portugal was always elite national team by riding their current impressive squad and success in the past 20 years, Failing to mention that Portugal success is directly a result of Cristiano presence, Ironic).

In what world Cristiano had better NT career than R9?

People are insane here.

Cristiano was NEVER selected as the best player in any of the Euros or World Cup he played in with Portugal, even in the Euro he won in 2016, the best player was Antoine Griezmann, not Cristiano.

And one of the reasons Portugal missed a lot of tournaments before 1996 was due to the Euro having only 4-8 teams, not because Ronaldo's magic.
Cristiano enjoyed the Euro with 16-24 teams, and easier qualifications with teams that didn't exist before the 90s like Lithuania, Latvia,Armenia,Slovenia,Slovakia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, etc

 

[jm99]

They also won the Euros (second time) with another Real Madrid/Barcelona mix. I don’t think an outsider from those two started the final. The amount of talent surrounding Messi and CR7 was the best we’ve ever seen. Real Madrid haven’t looked back after CR7 left and well, Barcelona are a whole other story

Capdevila did I believe. Yes they had very strong sides, but them scoring 100 goals plus was because they had Ronaldo, not because of the concentration of talent or whatever, I mean someone posted a list of other players managing 30 goal seasons and said it was because they played on super teams. Suarez at Liverpool wasn't a super team, forlan at atletico wasn't a super team, Falcao wasn't a super team, Rooney in 09/10 wasn't a super team etc.

Scoring over 100 goals every season was because of Messi and ronaldo they didn't get a boost from those teams, they were the boost. Maybe they won more because of their teammates, but the goalscoring side of things, they were definitely primarily responsible. So saying teams scored less when r9 played doesn't really stack up, when real and Barca have both dropped to similar numbers as in the 90s as soon as those players left

 

[Lay]

Capdevila did I believe.

He did not. The left back was Jordi Alba.

 

[redshaw]

In this era it would be close to Jesus Christ playing football, a gift from the heavens.

 

[jm99]

He did not. The left back was Jordi Alba.

I checked wiki, apparently alba was still at valencia then and David Silva started

 

[jm99]

In this era it would be close to Jesus Christ playing football

I heard he was pretty good at getting onto the end of crosses

 

[redshaw]

I heard he was pretty good at getting onto the end of crosses

You could get hung from a tree with jokes like that.

 

[Bole Top]

back in day it wasn't that uncommon for great players not to win as much (as they should?), because they weren't all playing in stacked teams. Batistuta spent 10 fecking years at Fiorentina winning nothing. that tells you everything. that's simply not happening today.

fit Ronaldo goes to PSG/Madrid/City these days and doesn't move until he is 33 or 34. someone wrote he goes there straight from PSV. it's actually questionable whether PSV would even have the chance to have him for that one season.

 

[Lay]

I checked wiki, apparently alba was still at valencia then and David Silva started

He did indeed, joined Barcelona in the summer. So a total of 3 non Barcelona/Real Madrid players in two tournament finals. That’s insane.

It’s not to downplay those two though. But the amount of world class teammates they’ve had is crazy.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Cristiano NT career is possibly better than R9. He's the Euro top scorer and 1 off from being the top assister as well, He scored 122 goals, All in competitive matches. His peak performance are as good as any all time great player in the national shirt, Spain 2018, Holland 2012, Sweden 2013 with couple of good/great performance against Germany 2020, Hungary 2016, Czech Republic 2008 (Which was rated 7th in the world before the EURO according ELO, Portugal was 19th btw) and many more in the qualifications (Which always been a problem for a small NT like Portugal).

And something very crucial that nobody seem to mention when this discussion arise, And it's Portugal being a non-contender in every single tournament they played (Except 2022 Worldcap with "past it" Cristiano), In fact, Portugal only qualified for 3 WC's and EURO between 1930-2006, 76 years before Ronaldo debut, Out of possible 36 tournaments, With him they never failed to qualify even once to either. He never had a chance to begin with yet managed to achieve *WAY* above the expectations (Which recently revisionists try to claim Portugal was always elite national team by riding their current impressive squad and success in the past 20 years, Failing to mention that Portugal success is directly a result of Cristiano presence, Ironic).

Also, I don't think R9 ever had the liability of needing to step up and "carry" his team, With Portugal it was "Ronaldo pull a great performance or we lose", At least up until recent years.

At club level it's a non-discussion, Cristiano basically provided better peak seasons, consistency and big game performances than R9 by 2012, And i feel like i'm being generous to R9 here tbh.

Thank you for reminding me to never go in debate with CR7 fanboys.
You lot are at the same level of delusion as people on RAWK are.

 

[Lay]

back in day it wasn't that uncommon for great players not to win as much (as they should?), because they weren't all playing in stacked teams. Batistuta spent 10 fecking years at Fiorentina winning nothing. that tells you everything. that's simply not happening today.

fit Ronaldo goes to PSG/Madrid/City these days and doesn't move until he is 33 or 34. someone wrote he goes there straight from PSV. it's actually questionable whether PSV would even have the chance to have him for that one season.

Yeah I mean batistuta was an incredible striker. He was just a level below Ronaldo but look at his trophies and it’s pretty paltry. That doesn’t take away how brilliant he was. No way in this era would he stay in Florence for 10 years.

 

[FrankFoot]

Ronaldo has the same pattern - look at Barcelona's goals per season before and after him:

94/95: 60
95/96: 72
96/97: 102
97/98: 78
98/99: 87

And at Inter his first campaign was their highest scoring season since 1965 when they were the best team in Europe. And that's despite as @Bobski says the next top scorer netting a paltry 7 goals.

I thought it was pretty obvious that the superteams are racking up more points and goals nowadays.

It's no coincidence that the highest scoring individual seasons in the last 50 years across all the major leagues just happen to be in the last decade or so.

Serie A - 2015/16 Higuain / 2019/20 Immobile - 36 goals (yet the highest Ronaldo and Van Basten could get was 25)
La Liga - 2011/12 Messi - 50 goals
Bundesliga - 2020/21 Lewandowski - 41 goals
EPL - 2022/23 Haaland - 35+ goals
Ligue Un - 2015/16 Ibrahimovic - 38 goals

It's no coincidence that the highest points-scoring club campaigns in the last 50 years across the major leagues happen to be in the last decade or so (factors in best points-per-game rate):

Serie A - 2013/14 Juventus - 102 points
La Liga - 2011/12 and 2012/13 Barcelona and Real - 100 points
Bundesliga - 2012/13 Bayern - 91 points
EPL - 2017/18 Man City - 100 points
Ligue Un - 2015/16 PSG - 96 points

Bravo.

Perfectly explained for people who still don't get the massive gap between top and mid table teams in modern football. And how 6-8 teams concentrate the best talent in the world.

The fact that Ciro Immobile who flopped in Bundesliga managed to score more in Serie A than peak Van Basten,Boniek, and R9 clarifies anything.
I don't think anybody other than Lazio fans rate Ciro Immobile as top player, not even the guys in this thread who are saying that modern players are better, and who ever doesn't agree with that is just nostalgic.

 

[jm99]

Bravo.

Perfectly explained for people who still don't get the massive gap between top and mid table teams in modern football. And how 6-8 teams concentrate the best talent in the world.

The fact that Ciro Immobile who flopped in Bundesliga managed to score more in Serie A than peak Van Basten,Boniek, and R9 clarifies anything.
I don't think anybody other than Lazio fans rate Ciro Immobile as top player, not even the guys in this thread who are saying that modern players are better, and who ever doesn't agree with that is just nostalgic.

That damn lazio side concentrating all the best talent in the world

 

[Bobski]

Yeah I mean batistuta was an incredible striker. He was just a level below Ronaldo but look at his trophies and it’s pretty paltry. That doesn’t take away how brilliant he was. No way in this era would he stay in Florence for 10 years.

And that is a rather sad loss to the club game. Harry Kane is a stand out in that regard, one of the best in the world for years, the modern trend would have been to force a move to a City/Bayern/PSG/Madrid to seal your "legacy" with a few trophies. There was not the hyper focus on that going back to 80's/90's but you also had semi parity forcing rules like the 3 Foreigner rule, less money in the game and generally smaller squads.

Some of it is nostalgia no doubt but the competitive landscape was incomparably healthier back then.

For example, had a quick look at the Wiki page for Serie A 96/97 and the forwards/teams represented in the top scorer list are;

Pipo Inzaghi was at Atalanta
Montella-Sampdoria
Balbo-Roma
Mancini-Sampdoria
Signori-Lazio
Chiesa-Parma
Djorkaeff-Inter
George Weah-Milan
Bierhoff-Udinese
Marcio Amoroso-Udinese
Batistuta-Fiorentina
Crespo-Parma

That doesn't even take into account guys like Del Piero/Totti/Baggio/Zamorano/Vieri/Boksic/Casiraghi and more, a lot of high end talent spread out.

 

[FrankFoot]

It’s funny how in the 2010s people would cry that Barcelona and Real Madrid had super teams and how unfair it was on the rest of La Liga with the tv money deal and La liga was called the ‘sunny SPL’.

But now they don’t have super teams. Interesting.

Yeah, so many inconsistencies.

Make fun of modern Bundesliga and Serie A for being un-competitive, mediocre aside from 2 teams, and one team leagues in the past decade, but now it happens that these leagues maybe are great because modern football is more competitive, and it's a myth that talent in 90s football was more widespread, it's just nostalgia.

I guess Ciro Immobile is the GOAT of Serie A.

Platini? Van Basten?....who are those scrubs.

 

[Lay]

And that is a rather sad loss to the club game. Harry Kane is a stand out in that regard, one of the best in the world for years, the modern trend would have been to force a move to a City/Bayern/PSG/Madrid to seal your "legacy" with a few trophies. There was not the hyper focus on that going back to 80's/90's but you also had semi parity forcing rules like the 3 Foreigner rule, less money in the game and generally smaller squads.

Some of it is nostalgia no doubt but the competitive landscape was incomparably healthier back then.

The leagues were definitely closer. EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A for example, some are in a weak era, but are still further ahead of other leagues more than they were at their peak.

Russian/Ukraine (obviously other factors too), Greek, Turkish leagues are now irrelevant. The Dutch and Portuguese leagues have moments here and there but it’s become a really narrowed era where even great leagues like Serie A and Bundesliga are falling/ have fell behind.

I mean there’s two Italian clubs in the UCL semi final but people keep complaining how they lack quality. Weird for such a competitive never before seen era that two Italian giants are apparently just cannon fodder for the other teams left in the draw.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Yeah I mean batistuta was an incredible striker. He was just a level below Ronaldo but look at his trophies and it’s pretty paltry. That doesn’t take away how brilliant he was. No way in this era would he stay in Florence for 10 years.

Kane stays in Spurs for as long, and you got people saying Vardy has had a better career, and he doesn't get the credit he deserves. There is no benefit of a player being loyal in this modern era.

 

[Righteous Steps]

And that is a rather sad loss to the club game. Harry Kane is a stand out in that regard, one of the best in the world for years, the modern trend would have been to force a move to a City/Bayern/PSG/Madrid to seal your "legacy" with a few trophies. There was not the hyper focus on that going back to 80's/90's but you also had semi parity forcing rules like the 3 Foreigner rule, less money in the game and generally smaller squads.

Some of it is nostalgia no doubt but the competitive landscape was incomparably healthier back then.

Kane should have left Spurs years ago tbh, i rate him with the greatest strikers of his generation but theres a section a large one who go on platforms like twitter and help spread the ruling narrative that will never hold Kane in the esteem he should be held because he never won the big trophies, again context is something thats lacking from this modern era.

 

[FrankFoot]

And that is a rather sad loss to the club game. Harry Kane is a stand out in that regard, one of the best in the world for years, the modern trend would have been to force a move to a City/Bayern/PSG/Madrid to seal your "legacy" with a few trophies. There was not the hyper focus on that going back to 80's/90's but you also had semi parity forcing rules like the 3 Foreigner rule, less money in the game and generally smaller squads.

Some of it is nostalgia no doubt but the competitive landscape was incomparably healthier back then.

The likes of Shevchenko, Figo, Nedved, Stoichkov, Koeman, etc played in their respective home countries until they were 23-24.... unthinkable nowadays.

Talented players are moving to top leagues as young as 18 now.

 

[FrankFoot]

Kane stays in Spurs for as long, and you got people saying Vardy has had a better career, and he doesn't get the credit he deserves. There is no benefit of a player being loyal in this modern era.

The likes of Totti, Batistuta, Shearer, etc would definitely be diminished in this modern era where apparently it's all about trophies to be considered great.

 

[Mooza]

R9 was incredible as a teenager, a phenom and unique but gets overrated in all time great discussions because of that and because of what he would have done ‘without injuries’. Didn’t do much after 2003, didn’t help Madrid win the champions league between 2002-2006 but it was ‘after his prime’ so it doesn’t matter. One of the best forwards ever and maybe the best number 9 ever but as an all time great player not in the top 10

 

[Bobski]

The likes of Shevchenko, Figo, Nedved, Stoichkov, Koeman, etc played in their respective home countries until they were 23-24.... unthinkable nowadays.

Talented players are moving to top leagues as young as 18 now.

And the CL/European Cup has lost a significant part of its charm. Going to Holland/Portugal/Greece/Turkey ect should be a bloody hard game with their own distinctive style and atmosphere. Now instead of feeders clubs, we have feeder countries, it is shit.

Dynamo Kiev in the late 90's were one of my favourite teams of that era, wild buccaneering team who were very unlucky not to make the 99 final instead of Bayern, them smashing Barca (with Rivaldo and Figo) 4-0 at the Nou Camp was CL perfection.

 

[Theonas]

Well there was the time he scored back to back hat tricks against atletico and bayern plus another 2 goals against bayern and 2 in the final against juventus for 10 goals in 5 games against 3 of the best sides in the world to win a Champions league. Which I think beats a hat trick against us at old Trafford with barthez in nets. I mean the guy has scored 41 goals from the quarter finals onwards in the champions league, Messi's second with 20 or something, it's a ridiculous amount of big game performances

Let's look at this from another angle. You like to use stats and numbers to back up your argument. Mine and others on here is that numbers cannot capture the totality of a footballer or at least why a footballer is adored or loved or whatever. This has nothing to do with nostalgia as many on here view Messi as the best ever btw so it can't be that. This is a genuine a question and I am really open to understand your perception; how many games do you remember of CR where you felt after the game that he just dominated the game, stood heads and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch to the point that when he touched the ball, it felt like something amazing was going to happen? Examples of such performances and I can't back them by stats or numbers or anything but just an overall feeling during and after such games.

Messi vs Real when he didn't even score and they won 5/0
Messi vs Bayern when he did that thing to Boateng
Zidane vs Brazil in the WC 2006

There are many others but I am just giving three here and trying to see if you can find the pattern between these displays and if you can relate to whatever that is in the case of CR and if he ever produced something similar? I am geninely curious to see if we even watch football the same way.

 

[jm99]

Let's look at this from another angle. You like to use stats and numbers to back up your argument. Mine and others on here is that numbers cannot capture the totality of a footballer or at least why a footballer is adored or loved or whatever. This has nothing to do with nostalgia as many on here view Messi as the best ever btw so it can't be that. This is a genuine a question and I am really open to understand your perception; how many games do you remember of CR where you felt after the game that he just dominated the game, stood heads and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch to the point that when he touched the ball, it felt like something amazing was going to happen? Examples of such performances and I can't back them by stats or numbers or anything but just an overall feeling during and after such games.

Messi vs Real when he didn't even score and they won 5/0
Messi vs Bayern when he did that thing to Boateng
Zidane vs Brazil in the WC 2006

There are many others but I am just giving three here and trying to see if you can find the pattern between these displays and if you can relate to whatever that is in the case of CR and if he ever produced something similar? I am geninely curious to see if we even watch football the same way.

Well there was the semi final against arsenal in 2009, that was definitely one of his best games in a united shirt, beyond just scoring twice he looked a constant threat. There was the game against Sweden where he scored the hat trick to win the play off. And for juventus against atletico again scoring a hat trick to overturn the 2-0 deficit. Those were games where it seems like he was basically willing his team to win

When you're discussing things on a forum though it's not really much of a discussion if people just say r9 was unplayable at his peak, or that stats are misleading. If you're actually trying to discuss something, just putting across vague feelings isn't really much of a discussion.

I don't remember Messi being particularly good in that bayern game til the last 5 mins, same with his performance in 2011 against Madrid in the semi final, pepe marked him out the game til he was sent off, but those two goals, particularly the solo one still make it an iconic performance even if he was quiet for the first 75 mins of the game

 

[Bole Top]

No way in this era would he stay in Florence for 10 years.

of course not. Vlahovic was gone after first good season and he's half the player. the first full season from Dybala in Serie A and it was all over for Palermo. same with Pastore.

even just a thought of Batistuta today at such club, playing on that level for 10 years, winning nothing, not even playing in European competitions in majority of his time there, yet him being perfectly satisfied with that - that's simply crazy. he even stayed after they got relegated.

Rui Costa actually refused to go to Milan, but was forced to leave in the end by the president after 7 years at Fiorentina as they declared banruptcy soon after that. at the age of 30 was his first touch with big club, Milan.

today, he would be in PSG or Arsenal before he's 24.

 

[Theonas]

Well there was the semi final against arsenal in 2009, that was definitely one of his best games in a united shirt, beyond just scoring twice he looked a constant threat. There was the game against Sweden where he scored the hat trick to win the play off. And for juventus against atletico again scoring a hat trick to overturn the 2-0 deficit. Those were games where it seems like he was basically willing his team to win

Fair enough, I guess that's why we see it differently. As good as those performances are and I am not being facetious, I just don't think they measure up against what I mentioned but to each his own.

When you're discussing things on a forum though it's not really much of a discussion if people just say r9 was unplayable at his peak, or that stats are misleading. If you're actually trying to discuss something, just putting across vague feelings isn't really much of a discussion.

It is actually a debate. Football is a field like social science if you will. There is a lot that we can understand using empirical data, statistical analysis and other features of the scientific framework, but not the same way we could use those principles in chemistry, physics or maths. Maybe it's because it's still very primitive, I mean it wasn't until recently that we came up with xG to break down how meaningful a chance is. What I am trying t say that there is too much to certain fields that still can't be quantified but it's there. It exists and the only evidence that it exists is that so many feel it. It's not always easily transferable with communication but if many people refer to an event or a performance as extraordinary or magical or "unplayable" it's usually because there is something there that is difficult to transmit. Instead of dismissing through using primitive methods that are not designed to explain, it might be more advisable to try and open your mind to understand it, not necessarily agree with it.

I don't remember Messi being particularly good in that bayern game til the last 5 mins, same with his performance in 2011 against Madrid in the semi final, pepe marked him out the game til he was sent off, but those two goals, particularly the solo one still make it an iconic performance even if he was quiet for the first 75 mins of the game

It wasn't the last 5mins. That was a see-saw of a game between two great sides and sometime around the 70th min, Messi took matters on his own and produced a spell that just left people speechless. Notice, I didn't say dominate a game from beginning to end. I did not refer to the CL game you are referring to. It would have been easy to do so because he scored. I referred to a game where they scored 5 and he wasn't one of the goalscorers to illustrate the point that it's not about anything tangible.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Well there was the semi final against arsenal in 2009, that was definitely one of his best games in a united shirt, beyond just scoring twice he looked a constant threat. There was the game against Sweden where he scored the hat trick to win the play off. And for juventus against atletico again scoring a hat trick to overturn the 2-0 deficit. Those were games where it seems like he was basically willing his team to win

When you're discussing things on a forum though it's not really much of a discussion if people just say r9 was unplayable at his peak, or that stats are misleading. If you're actually trying to discuss something, just putting across vague feelings isn't really much of a discussion.

I don't remember Messi being particularly good in that bayern game til the last 5 mins, same with his performance in 2011 against Madrid in the semi final, pepe marked him out the game til he was sent off, but those two goals, particularly the solo one still make it an iconic performance even if he was quiet for the first 75 mins of the game

What Madrid performances can you remember?

 

[jm99]

Fair enough, I guess that's why we see it differently. As good as those performances are and I am not being facetious, I just don't think they measure up against what I mentioned but to each his own.



It is actually a debate. Football is a field like social science if you will. There is a lot that we can understand using empirical data, statistical analysis and other features of the scientific framework, but not the same way we could use those principles in chemistry, physics or maths. Maybe it's because it's still very primitive, I mean it wasn't until recently that we came up with xG to break down how meaningful a chance is. What I am trying t say that there is too much to certain fields that still can't be quantified but it's there. It exists and the only evidence that it exists is that so many feel it. It's not always easily transferable with communication but if many people refer to an event or a performance as extraordinary or magical or "unplayable" it's usually because there is something there that is difficult to transmit. Instead of dismissing through using primitive methods that are not designed to explain, it might be more advisable to try and open your mind to understand it, not necessarily agree with it.




It wasn't the last 5mins. That was a see-saw of a game between two great sides and sometime around the 70th min, Messi took matters on his own and produced a spell that just left people speechless. Notice, I didn't say dominate a game from beginning to end. I did not refer to the CL game you are referring to. It would have been easy to do so because he scored. I referred to a game where they scored 5 and he wasn't one of the goalscorers to illustrate the point that it's not about anything tangible.

Well it was right after Pepe got sent off, the guy who'd been marking him out of the game, but facts like that get lost to time, and people remember the iconic performance.

Well the performances are just different, Ronaldo isn't going to control a game like Zidane, but Zidane won't score a hat trick to bring his team back into the game. They're different types of players and one isn't better than the other.

What I was trying to say was is that there isn't really much discussion if one person says I think cristiano was better and the other says think r9 was better. Stats actually bring something to a discussion, otherwise its just two people expressing an opinion neither of which are going to change their minds

 

[jm99]

What Madrid performances can you remember?

Well I can't recall the specific games but against atletico in the league there was more than 1, obviously his quarter final against juventus scoring the overhead kick stands out, even though he scored a hat trick against bayern in 2017, I remember his performance against pep's bayern in 2014 being better, they absolutely dominated a team that had won the treble a year prior, I can't remember if it wss him or Bale that nearly scored from the halfway line but hit the bar, but that was a really impressive performance

 

[Theonas]

Well it was right after Pepe got sent off, the guy who'd been marking him out of the game, but facts like that get lost to time, and people remember the iconic performance.

Again, I don't know why you are talking about that performance, I did not bring it up.

Well the performances are just different, Ronaldo isn't going to control a game like Zidane, but Zidane won't score a hat trick to bring his team back into the game. They're different types of players and one isn't better than the other.

That's your answer! The thread is about being adored, that's a feeling. Respect is one thing, you can command respect through your achievements but love and being adored are a different thing. By all rational and logic and stats, CR ticks every box, if how people perceive footballers and athlete was only about these things, CR would so much more universally loved than he is, but the fact is he isn't, why? Why does he leave so many people cold? Maybe just maybe it's because whereas scoring hatricks and winning so much commands respect and definitely a certain kind of greatness, but it just doesn't inspire the same way what someone like Zidane or Messi could orchestrate. The former had measly stats and people still talk about him so much love and warmth. Did he bribe them? Ishe buying fans online? What explanation could there be other than football is about much more than the tangible.

What I was trying to say was is that there isn't really much discussion if one person says I think cristiano was better and the other says think r9 was better. Stats actually bring something to a discussion, otherwise its just two people expressing an opinion neither of which are going to change their minds

Well it isn't much of a discussion in the way you see discussions. You want to apply one method of analysis to everything. I am not saying you are but it's a bit like people who approach dating by reading up on different types of personalities and making a chart of compatibility and whatnot.


Stats do bring something to this discussion, but you are treating them like the be all and end all. They serve a purpose but they don't give the full picture.

 

[Theonas]

Well I can't recall the specific games but against atletico in the league there was more than 1, obviously his quarter final against juventus scoring the overhead kick stands out, even though he scored a hat trick against bayern in 2017, I remember his performance against pep's bayern in 2014 being better, they absolutely dominated a team that had won the treble a year prior, I can't remember if it wss him or Bale that nearly scored from the halfway line but hit the bar, but that was a really impressive performance

Therein lies the difference. If they inspired in you the same feeling people get from Ronaldo, Zidane or Messi, you most definitely would remember.

 

[lex talionis]

Would Ronaldo have been so adored if he played football in this current era?

Of course he would. Silly question.

Had Ronaldo stayed fit longer in his career he'd easily be in the same conservation as Pele, Messi and Maradona. As it is, he falls just short. But he would be adored, without question.

 

[jm99]

Again, I don't know why you are talking about that performance, I did not bring it up.



That's your answer! The thread is about being adored, that's a feeling. Respect is one thing, you can command respect through your achievements but love and being adored are a different thing. By all rational and logic and stats, CR ticks every box, if how people perceive footballers and athlete was only about these things, CR would so much more universally loved than he is, but the fact is he isn't, why? Why does he leave so many people cold? Maybe just maybe it's because whereas scoring hatricks and winning so much commands respect and definitely a certain kind of greatness, but it just doesn't inspire the same way what someone like Zidane or Messi could orchestrate. The former had measly stats and people still talk about him so much love and warmth. Did he bribe them? Ishe buying fans online? What explanation could there be other than football is about much more than the tangible.



Well it isn't much of a discussion in the way you see discussions. You want to apply one method of analysis to everything. I am not saying you are but it's a bit like people who approach dating by reading up on different types of personalities and making a chart of compatibility and whatnot.


Stats do bring something to this discussion, but you are treating them like the be all and end all. They serve a purpose but they don't give the full picture.

I mean it's more because Ronaldo is a bit of a dick

When he was playing with us the first time round, he was abolutely despised, it had nothing to do with not being a number 10 types player and a lot to do with his immature personality early on, his tendency to dive, and probably most importantly he played for us .

No, it just isn't a discussion two people each saying they prefer one player over another doesn't really add anything to a discussion there's nothing to debate against or comment on, if you prefer Brazilian Ronaldo because of some intangible stuff, there isn't much to discuss there

 

[jm99]

Therein lies the difference. If they inspired in you the same feeling people get from Ronaldo, Zidane or Messi, you most definitely would remember.

Not really, it's because he had three different games against atletico for Madrid where he scored hat tricks. Ronaldo also definitely wasn't the same type of player you're trying to portray, ok Zidane against Brazil and Messi against real. I don't recall any Brazilian Ronaldo games where he didn't score but was the best player on the pitch. He's most remembered for his WC in 2002 where he was top scorer, he wasn't the type to control a game, you don't do that from the number9

 

[Andrade]

And I'm talking about the Brazilian Ronaldo here.

He bursted into the scene as a super striker. He played for a number of great clubs at that time. But this is exactly the issue. He played for very big clubs: Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, AC Milan...etc. However during his whole career he only had 1 league trophy to show for it (No Champions League either). If he was born and played in the modern age, would people look at him as a less loyal Harry Kane? People lambasted Ibrahimovic as a small-game player but Ibra won the domestic league at everywhere he went, minus Manchester United. All because he didn't win a Champions League.

Ronaldo arguably had a better international career. He had an exceptional 2002 World Cup. However, even that came as a sort of "redemption" after his flop in the 1998 World Cup Final. Still, I'd rate his international career as a 8/10 at least.

I also don't think modern football fans would take too kindly to the fact that he played for rivals Real/Barca, Inter/AC either. Lukaku got bashed as a mercenary for less. Ronaldo jumping between big rival clubs with very little trophies to show for it would actually fuel even more ridicule towards him from bitter people, actually.

Do you think Ronaldo would have been so adored if he played football in this current era? Instead of the current god-hood status he got among football fans.

It was different then. The Bosman superclub thing hadn't really kicked in. The disparity between the rich and the poor wasn't nearly as extreme as it is now. There was no team that you could go to where you were guaranteed bucketloads of trophies like now. Even Madrid, back then it wasn't just Barca and Madrid, other teams were actually allowed to win stuff. Certainly in the 90s anyway. I guess it was moving the way of the superclub by the time crocked Ronaldo actually joined Madrid but it still wasn't like now. Look at the list of players who have won the most trophies in history, it is dominated by current or near current players. Trebles and doubles are ten a penny now, they used to be rare and extraordinary occurences.

Look at Ronaldo's genius forerunners, Maradona, Baggio and Romario. Maradona was in Europe for 10 years, 2 league titles. Went to Barcelona, no titles just a couple of cups. Romario, one league title with Barcelona. Baggio two league titles in Italy. Along with Ronaldo, that's four of the greatest players ever, and between them they have 6 league titles in the 'top 5 leagues'

Speaking of which, that whole notion has changed too. Not that Italy, Spain, England etc. weren't strong but again the disparity between the top leagues and the others wasn't the same. I mean the fact that both Romario and Ronaldo went to PSV when they first came to Europe says it all. Today, players of that ilk woukd be snapped up by a City or a Madrid before they were barely out of nappies.

A further thing to consider is that the idea about only the league and the Champions League being important wasn't always the thing. All the other trophies Ronalfo won actually meant something to people. The domestic cups, the UEFA Cup, the Cup Winmers Cup etc.

So in a long winded way, to answer your question, if Ronaldo were playing today he would be exactly as lauded as he was back then (if not more so) because he would from a very young age be recruited into one of those handful of elite clubs that these days tend to win multiple trophies every year whoever is playing for them. And he would obviously still be the same electrifying guy.

 

[Daydreamer]

Cristiano NT career is possibly better than R9. He's the Euro top scorer and 1 off from being the top assister as well, He scored 122 goals, All in competitive matches. His peak performance are as good as any all time great player in the national shirt, Spain 2018, Holland 2012, Sweden 2013 with couple of good/great performance against Germany 2020, Hungary 2016, Czech Republic 2008 (Which was rated 7th in the world before the EURO according ELO, Portugal was 19th btw) and many more in the qualifications (Which always been a problem for a small NT like Portugal).

And something very crucial that nobody seem to mention when this discussion arise, And it's Portugal being a non-contender in every single tournament they played (Except 2022 Worldcap with "past it" Cristiano), In fact, Portugal only qualified for 3 WC's and EURO between 1930-2006, 76 years before Ronaldo debut, Out of possible 36 tournaments, With him they never failed to qualify even once to either. He never had a chance to begin with yet managed to achieve *WAY* above the expectations (Which recently revisionists try to claim Portugal was always elite national team by riding their current impressive squad and success in the past 20 years, Failing to mention that Portugal success is directly a result of Cristiano presence, Ironic).

Also, I don't think R9 ever had the liability of needing to step up and "carry" his team, With Portugal it was "Ronaldo pull a great performance or we lose", At least up until recent years.

At club level it's a non-discussion, Cristiano basically provided better peak seasons, consistency and big game performances than R9 by 2012, And i feel like i'm being generous to R9 here tbh.

This is a wild take.

 

[Theonas]

I mean it's more because Ronaldo is a bit of a dick

When he was playing with us the first time round, he was abolutely despised, it had nothing to do with not being a number 10 types player and a lot to do with his immature personality early on, his tendency to dive, and probably most importantly he played for us .

I mean, fair enough but it goes beyond that doesn't it. Being despised is one thing, but he is also rarely referred to as someone who edge of the seat or someone who makes you scratch your eyes if what you just witnessed really happened. It's always about how he is like an engineered footballer, he can run really fast and shoot really strong and jump really high. I don't ever remember a footballer being talked about in terms of how strong mentally they are like CR, no one had their character and mental strength beeing as lauded as him which just tells you what people admire and respect about him first and foremost.

No, it just isn't a discussion two people each saying they prefer one player over another doesn't really add anything to a discussion there's nothing to debate against or comment on, if you prefer Brazilian Ronaldo because of some intangible stuff, there isn't much to discuss there

A discussion that have to be about convincing someone or changing one's mind. It's not like people ever do that even if they are being all scientific and empirical. A discussion can be about trying to understand and I'd say understanding the intangible is usually more fun and can open the mind to new things. The tangible does not need a discussion, there is plenty to read online to educate oneself without needing the push and pull of social media platforms.

 

[jm99]

I mean, fair enough but it goes beyond that doesn't it. Being despised is one thing, but he is also rarely referred to as someone who edge of the seat or someone who makes you scratch your eyes if what you just witnessed really happened. It's always about how he is like an engineered footballer, he can run really fast and shoot really strong and jump really high. I don't ever remember a footballer being talked about in terms of how strong mentally they are like CR, no one had their character and mental strength beeing as lauded as him which just tells you what people admire and respect about him first and foremost.


A discussion that have to be about convincing someone or changing one's mind. It's not like people ever do that even if they are being all scientific and empirical. A discussion can be about trying to understand and I'd say understanding the intangible is usually more fun and can open the mind to new things. The tangible does not need a discussion, there is plenty to read online to educate oneself without needing the push and pull of social media platforms.

He clearly could do all that stuff, i mean the overhead kick against juventus absolutely was a moment like that, or the 40 yard goal against Porto, or the free kick against Portsmouth or the sort of mid air backheel thing against valencia. I watched through a compilation of r9s best goals and with the exception of maybe 1 goal where he takes a pass down with a great first touch and rounds the keeper, every single one of his goals has been done by Ronaldo, or at least very similar. Whereas the reverse isn't true, there's no 40 yard goal from r9 no overhead kick etc. I mean if you said Messi I could understand because his passing ability was something largely not found in cristiano's game, but with r9 there really wasn't anything he could do that cristiano couldn't.

 

[Theonas]

He clearly could do all that stuff, i mean the overhead kick against juventus absolutely was a moment like that, or the 40 yard goal against Porto, or the free kick against Portsmouth or the sort of mid air backheel thing against valencia. I watched through a compilation of r9s best goals and with the exception of maybe 1 goal where he takes a pass down with a great first touch and rounds the keeper, every single one of his goals has been done by Ronaldo, or at least very similar. Whereas the reverse isn't true, there's no 40 yard goal from r9 no overhead kick etc. I mean if you said Messi I could understand because his passing ability was something largely not found in cristiano's game, but with r9 there really wasn't anything he could do that cristiano couldn't.

Running at high speed with perfect ball control and balance dribbling through several players.

 

[jm99]

Running at high speed with perfect ball control and balance dribbling through several players.

Maybe not in his later career but he absolutely could throughout the first half of his career