Would Ronaldo have been so adored if he played football in this current era

This thread has at least been good for a laugh, if nothing else. Gems include the poster claiming R9 wasn’t a good dribbler, and another saying he was overrated.

Anyone not acknowledging he’s one of the best players the game has ever seen, either (a) never saw him play (b) knows little about football or (c) is a WUM.
 
Messi might be the best dribbler of all time, so I don't agree with your point. R9 was a better dribbler than CR7 imo because he could keep the ball closer to his foot. That being said CR7 used skills which would surely be about entertainment and expression? Neymar, Vini Jr and Kvaratskelia, even Mitoma for Brighton are all very talented dribblers and entertaining to watch. I still get excited watching Mbappe. There are still plenty of those type of players, tactics have got miles better though, which has no doubt helped defenders learn how to deal with them better than before when they basically just kicked them as much as possible.
Messi is included in my point, him and C Ronaldo (early years C Ronaldo at least) are probably the last who fall into that category of great entertainers. Neymar to a point as well but you can see now how different the game is?
 
Football has been through a peak in terms of an individual's ability to excite in my opinion, people loved R9 not just because he scored goals but because he ran at people and was a dribbler. Haaland is boring as hell, I can appreciate he's a supreme goal scorer but I don't think he's exciting, kind of like Shearer, I respect the hell out of him but I'd much rather pay money to watch Henry, to witness a bit of magic from time to time. Look at Maradona, his stats aren't that amazing compared to some of today's players but he is inarguably better than all but two of them (and arguably still better than those two).

Football used to be about entertainment and expression with the ball whilst trying to win, it's almost exclusively about winning now. Ironically managers who the media say are exciting make made it all about risk vs return, you almost never see players really have a go at their opposition unless they are in a very safe area to do, when was the last time someone got properly done by some skill in a 1 vs 1? Players like R9 would sadly get moulded into different players to what we grew up watching, there'd be a post on redcaf saying Ings would be a safer bet than R9 because he presses off the ball or something equally as ridiculous.

This is bang on. The player I always think of in this context is Le Tissier. Won nothing, but a joy to watch and a player who gave joy and excitement to so many people.

Football is about enjoying players exhibit their skill, and there are lots of different skills, players who are pacy dribblers, players who are rock-hard centre backs, players who are artistic passing masters etc. I don't really look at them and think "yes, but what are his Opta Stats, and what has he won?". I think "I really enjoy watching this player". Therefore, R9 IS a great and always will be.
 
Messi is included in my point, him and C Ronaldo (early years C Ronaldo at least) are probably the last who fall into that category of great entertainers. Neymar to a point as well but you can see now how different the game is?
Ah fair enough, thought you weren't including them. Neymar has to be included though mate, even if you don't like him or think he was as good (I don't think he was as good an all-round player either). His dribbling and skills are pretty sensational tbh and always have been. I'm not sure if there were really more of these dribblers/entertainers in the 90s or if that's just conflating time periods to feel like there were. Ronaldo was called O Fenomeno for a reason, it wasn't like there were loads of players doing that at the time. Maradona was a different generation to Ronaldo, just as Cruyff was a different generation to Maradona, just as Pele was a different generation to Cruyff.

There were other brilliant players during each time period, but there are brilliant players during our time as well. You don't seem to like the Haaland or Lewandowski prototype, which is fair enough, but we've also had much more well-rounded strikers like Benzema, Kane and Suarez in recent years. Gerd Muller just like Alan Shearer were those ruthlessly efficient strikers aswell who didn't offer anything spectacular outside of their goals, so you're always going to have those types (tbh I think these type of strikers were far more prevalent in England in the 90s than they are now). As mentioned though, you have talented young dribblers and entertainers still like Vini and Kvaratskelia. There aren't dozens and dozens of them, but if you went back to the 90s I think you'd struggle to find dozens of these type of players at any one time.
 
Ah fair enough, thought you weren't including them. Neymar has to be included though mate, even if you don't like him or think he was as good (I don't think he was as good an all-round player either). His dribbling and skills are pretty sensational tbh and always have been. I'm not sure if there were really more of these dribblers/entertainers in the 90s or if that's just conflating time periods to feel like there were. Ronaldo was called O Fenomeno for a reason, it wasn't like there were loads of players doing that at the time. Maradona was a different generation to Ronaldo, just as Cruyff was a different generation to Maradona, just as Pele was a different generation to Cruyff.

There were other brilliant players during each time period, but there are brilliant players during our time as well. You don't seem to like the Haaland or Lewandowski prototype, which is fair enough, but we've also had much more well-rounded strikers like Benzema, Kane and Suarez in recent years. Gerd Muller just like Alan Shearer were those ruthlessly efficient strikers aswell who didn't offer anything spectacular outside of their goals, so you're always going to have those types (tbh I think these type of strikers were far more prevalent in England in the 90s than they are now). As mentioned though, you have talented young dribblers and entertainers still like Vini and Kvaratskelia. There aren't dozens and dozens of them, but if you went back to the 90s I think you'd struggle to find dozens of these type of players at any one time.
I did include Neymar but you can see how much he's been 'tamed' by the professionalism/money of European football compared to his Santos days.

I don't not rate Haaland, Lewa for what it's worth, they are elite strikers. Ironically that type of player is what I think we need. One of my favourite strikers ever was Ruud who falls into that goal scorer category but I'm objective enough to say he wasn't the most exciting player.
 
I did include Neymar but you can see how much he's been 'tamed' by the professionalism/money of European football compared to his Santos days.

I don't not rate Haaland, Lewa for what it's worth, they are elite strikers. Ironically that type of player is what I think we need. One of my favourite strikers ever was Ruud who falls into that goal scorer category but I'm objective enough to say he wasn't the most exciting player.
What does this "tame" term even mean regarding Neymar?

If we are talking about the excitement that certain players give out, a Ronaldo vs Ronaldinho debate would also be good.
 
A striker that is fast, can dribble, pass, finish chances in multiple ways, has a great long shot and decent heading. We have plenty of those around, so we can deduct with 100% certainty that he would have been utterly disregarded.
So many around that United haven’t got one. He is the player that United could do with most as Rashford is hot and cold , no doubt ETH has Dutch Steve McLaren scouring the Dutch leagues for the next United centre forward
 
Every conversation in a longish thread at redcafe denigrates to Ronaldo original vs C Ronaldo vs Messi....longevity/peak/entertainment/knees...


All these posters need to be banned:D
 
Yep, pele/maradonna level if not for his knee injuries. Dont think ive seen a player since with his explosive pace, combined with balance and ball control at speed. Just mezmerising.

Yeah I think the Messi-Maradona-Pele triumvirate would look differently. If he hadn't gotten injured, we might well be talking about him being the greatest ever.
 
Never seen a player casually round a goalkeeper and pass it into the empty net so much, like on the playground. Keepers just surrended to him
 
Every conversation in a longish thread at redcafe denigrates to Ronaldo original vs C Ronaldo vs Messi....longevity/peak/entertainment/knees...


All these posters need to be banned:D

Tbf in this case, it'd totally warranted to make the comparison, when people say would he be as adored and I think not with two other better players at the time. I don't think any players in the Messi/Ronaldo era are universally adored because there's such a gap between them and everyone else
 
Tbf in this case, it'd totally warranted to make the comparison, when people say would he be as adored and I think not with two other better players at the time. I don't think any players in the Messi/Ronaldo era are universally adored because there's such a gap between them and everyone else
Except that R9 was better than both of them at the start of his career. So this point doesn't make sense. If he'd had exactly the same career in this era (which is unlikely), there are definitely periods in which he would have been considered to be better than the other two, chiefly at the beginning and perhaps during wotld Cups (and international competitions generally), where he was dominating and the other 2 were failing to deliver on the biggest stages.
 
He would be getting 40-50 goals a season.

Yep. People underestimate goal inflation in the super team era. R9 was basically a superior version of Mbappe and look how much hype he has.
 
He would be getting 40-50 goals a season.

Absolutely. If anything it's even harder to find a top CF now and he stood out in an era packed full of them. He had literally everything you'd want in a CF except I didn't see him score so many with his head. With more attacking support in the current systems of wide attackers, he'd be completely uncontrollable.
 
Except that R9 was better than both of them at the start of his career. So this point doesn't make sense. If he'd had exactly the same career in this era (which is unlikely), there are definitely periods in which he would have been considered to be better than the other two, chiefly at the beginning and perhaps during wotld Cups (and international competitions generally), where he was dominating and the other 2 were failing to deliver on the biggest stages.

Well sort of, but whatever he did in the Dutch league wouldn't really have him considered as anything more than a great prospect and while crisitano was certainly a late bloomer, Brazilian Ronaldo would have had maybe one season where he was better than Messi. 07-08 assuming they were both born in the same year, though then it would he debatable between him and cristiano that year.

But players aren't adored in the same way now as they were back them. Look at our club, three years ago rashford was universally loved, two seasons ago people wanted him sold to psg now after last season fans on here want him given a 20m a year contract. It even happens within the space of one season. When city were trailing arsenal in the league, haaland was a stupid waste of money goal poacher, when he hit a purple patch and city started dominating he was a cheet code, unfair addition and taken them up a level, then he has a poor end to the season and he's a bottler. These discussions all took place in the period of 9 months.

Ronaldo and Messi were utterly unique in that after they hit their peaks, they stayed there for about 15 years without a single season of downtime, and anyone else who doesn't is compared to that level and comes off badly.

Players lose adoration now off a bad half season. Ronaldo has the advantage of being seen through nostalgia and not judged in the same way
 
Absolutely. If anything it's even harder to find a top CF now and he stood out in an era packed full of them. He had literally everything you'd want in a CF except I didn't see him score so many with his head. With more attacking support in the current systems of wide attackers, he'd be completely uncontrollable.

He was also outscored by Oliver bierhoff in serie A
 
Yep. People underestimate goal inflation in the super team era. R9 was basically a superior version of Mbappe and look how much hype he has.

Except it isn't really true.

The seaosn before Ronaldo joined Madrid they score 83league goals. Then they scored over 100 (peaking at 121) basically every year until he left, apart from his last season where they scored 94 when he was 33. The season after he left they scored 63 league goals and haven't scored more than 80 since he left.

Same with Messi, Barca were scoring over 90 evey season til he left, and often over 100, except his last one at 33 where they got 85. Since he left they haven't scored 70. It seems the super teams score at a fairly regular rate when they don't have the two best players in history leading their respective attacks
 
Except it isn't really true.

The seaosn before Ronaldo joined Madrid they score 83league goals. Then they scored over 100 (peaking at 121) basically every year until he left, apart from his last season where they scored 94 when he was 33. The season after he left they scored 63 league goals and haven't scored more than 80 since he left.

Same with Messi, Barca were scoring over 90 evey season til he left, and often over 100, except his last one at 33 where they got 85. Since he left they haven't scored 70. It seems the super teams score at a fairly regular rate when they don't have the two best players in history leading their respective attacks

Yeah and much of those goals were stat padding against hopelessly outmatched smaller teams.

And in the 90s, Serie A's top teams often finished their season with less than 50 goals. Trust me, the numbers paint a very obvious picture.
 
Yeah and much of those goals were stat padding against hopelessly outmatched smaller teams.

And in the 90s, Serie A's top teams often finished their season with less than 50 goals. Trust me, the numbers paint a very obvious picture.

And yet the seasons after they left somehow the smaller teams were no longer hopelessly outmatched. Real Madrid went from 3 champions league in a row to a last 16 exit, after 8 consecutive semi finals with Ronaldo

The average goals per game in 97/98 serie a was 2.76


Only 3 of ronaldo's Madrid seasons were higher than that 11/12 (2.76 so equal), 12/13 (2.87) and 16/17 (2.94) so of 9 seasons Ronaldo was at Madrid 6 had a lower average goal per game than 97/98 serie a did

Messi had one more season where it was higher (08/09) at 2.89 but he played 4 more seasons than Ronaldo at his peak in la ligaso of the 13 seasons he played the average goal per game was lower in 9 of them. So don't try and paint this picture of an ultra defensive league where no one could score. Ronaldo and Messi were the big difference makers when it came to these huge goalscoring nunbers
 
Well sort of, but whatever he did in the Dutch league wouldn't really have him considered as anything more than a great prospect and while crisitano was certainly a late bloomer, Brazilian Ronaldo would have had maybe one season where he was better than Messi. 07-08 assuming they were both born in the same year, though then it would he debatable between him and cristiano that year.

But players aren't adored in the same way now as they were back them. Look at our club, three years ago rashford was universally loved, two seasons ago people wanted him sold to psg now after last season fans on here want him given a 20m a year contract. It even happens within the space of one season. When city were trailing arsenal in the league, haaland was a stupid waste of money goal poacher, when he hit a purple patch and city started dominating he was a cheet code, unfair addition and taken them up a level, then he has a poor end to the season and he's a bottler. These discussions all took place in the period of 9 months.

Ronaldo and Messi were utterly unique in that after they hit their peaks, they stayed there for about 15 years without a single season of downtime, and anyone else who doesn't is compared to that level and comes off badly.

Players lose adoration now off a bad half season. Ronaldo has the advantage of being seen through nostalgia and not judged in the same way
Wrong. He is judged in context. As a teen, he was a better player than Messi and especially CR7, who was pretty average as a teen by the standards of the greatest ever players. Then he got an injury that would have ended his career in an earlier era. Messi and Ronaldo never had to deal with any serious or career threatening injuries.
 
And yet the seasons after they left somehow the smaller teams were no longer hopelessly outmatched. Real Madrid went from 3 champions league in a row to a last 16 exit, after 8 consecutive semi finals with Ronaldo

The average goals per game in 97/98 serie a was 2.76


Only 3 of ronaldo's Madrid seasons were higher than that 11/12 (2.76 so equal), 12/13 (2.87) and 16/17 (2.94) so of 9 seasons Ronaldo was at Madrid 6 had a lower average goal per game than 97/98 serie a did

Messi had one more season where it was higher (08/09) at 2.89 but he played 4 more seasons than Ronaldo at his peak in la ligaso of the 13 seasons he played the average goal per game was lower in 9 of them. So don't try and paint this picture of an ultra defensive league where no one could score. Ronaldo and Messi were the big difference makers when it came to these huge goalscoring nunbers


Mate, I'm not discussing facts. Top teams score much more goals these days than in the 90s. In 97/98 the best scoring Serie A team had 67 goals. The year before that it was 60 and that team was Sampdoria finishing 6th while the champion had 51 goals. Honestly, the numbers speak such a clear language that there's really no room for interpretation or motivated reasoning (thanks for that term @Iker Quesadillas).

The gap between top teams and runner ups in the CR7 era is simply much, much bigger than it was in the 90s when the top clubs couldn't hoard as many top players as in the 10s.
 
Mate, I'm not discussing facts. Top teams score much more goals these days than in the 90s. In 97/98 the best scoring Serie A team had 67 goals. The year before that it was 60 and that team was Sampdoria finishing 6th while the champion had 51 goals. Honestly, the numbers speak such a clear language that there's really no room for interpretation or motivated reasoning (thanks for that term @Iker Quesadillas).

The gap between top teams and runner ups in the CR7 era is simply much, much bigger than it was in the 90s when the top clubs couldn't hoard as many top players as in the 10s.

And immediately after Ronaldo left, real managed 63 league goals suggesting he was the biggest reason for the enormous gap
 
Wrong. He is judged in context. As a teen, he was a better player than Messi and especially CR7, who was pretty average as a teen by the standards of the greatest ever players. Then he got an injury that would have ended his career in an earlier era. Messi and Ronaldo never had to deal with any serious or career threatening injuries.

And he's also judged through nostalgia unless you're denying that nostalgia exists at all. he also has the advantage that the majority saw highlights of him and not full hd games every week
 
The answer to the OP question:

Would Ronaldo have been so adored if he played football in this current era (?)

Without any doubt, probably even moreso.

Strange that this is even a question.
 
And he's also judged through nostalgia unless you're denying that nostalgia exists at all. he also has the advantage that the majority saw highlights of him and not full hd games every week

Actually not an advantage at all
 
And yet the seasons after they left somehow the smaller teams were no longer hopelessly outmatched. Real Madrid went from 3 champions league in a row to a last 16 exit, after 8 consecutive semi finals with Ronaldo

The average goals per game in 97/98 serie a was 2.76


Only 3 of ronaldo's Madrid seasons were higher than that 11/12 (2.76 so equal), 12/13 (2.87) and 16/17 (2.94) so of 9 seasons Ronaldo was at Madrid 6 had a lower average goal per game than 97/98 serie a did

Messi had one more season where it was higher (08/09) at 2.89 but he played 4 more seasons than Ronaldo at his peak in la ligaso of the 13 seasons he played the average goal per game was lower in 9 of them. So don't try and paint this picture of an ultra defensive league where no one could score. Ronaldo and Messi were the big difference makers when it came to these huge goalscoring nunbers
La Liga GPG was also inflated by 2 ATG playing at the same time and basically scoring at record breaking rate (by pre-Messi/Cristiano era standards) every single season, Since both Messi and Cristiano left La Liga GPG became the lowest in Europe, Failing to break 2.5.

Yeah and much of those goals were stat padding against hopelessly outmatched smaller teams.

And in the 90s, Serie A's top teams often finished their season with less than 50 goals. Trust me, the numbers paint a very obvious picture.

Equalizing+Leading goals (peak):
R9 96/97: 15G in La Liga+EC. 39G overall, 62% of goals could be classified as statpadding.
Messi 12/13: 24G in La Liga+CL. 54G overall, 57% of goals could be classified as statpadding.
Cristiano 11/12: 29G in La Liga+CL 56G overall, 48% of goals could be classified as statpadding.

And both did it with much larger sample size. The statpadding argument doesn't hold, Messi and Cristiano were more decisive players than R9 ever been, Better footballers too.
 
Of course it's an advantage, because people didn't see much of ronaldo's worst games whwreas current players get analysed to death

People also missed a lot of Ronaldos greatness
 
People also missed a lot of Ronaldos greatness

It's still not an advantage, you could make a highlights video where cristiano looks like the greatest free kick taker ever because the highlights would be the successful ones and not the misses. Ronaldo didn't play in the 70s, there aren't wonder goals he scored lost to time, never captured on camera
 
It's still not an advantage, you could make a highlights video where cristiano looks like the greatest free kick taker ever because the highlights would be the successful ones and not the misses. Ronaldo didn't play in the 70s, there aren't wonder goals he scored lost to time, never captured on camera

I watched a lot of Ronaldo at Barca and Inter, highlights don't do him justice
 
And he's also judged through nostalgia unless you're denying that nostalgia exists at all. he also has the advantage that the majority saw highlights of him and not full hd games every week
We've already discussed this re nostalgia, it's a nonsense argument used by people who never actually saw a player. It's a bit rich of a person with no memory of a player to say to someone who saw them "you dont remember it right" Well you dont remember it at all bud, who's in the better position?

And it doesn't really matter that a lot of people didn't watch him every week (although thousands of people onviously did), they saw him at World Cups, which are by far the most important games. This seeing foreign players every week thing is a luxury of the modern 24/7 media and internet coverage world. Bottom line is that if you had to judge CR7 just on watching him at World Cups, you'd be like 'this guy is extremely overrated'.
 
I watched a lot of Ronaldo at Barca and Inter, highlights don't do him justice

This seems to be a running theme with r9 fans, highlights don't do him justice, trophies won don't do him justice, goals scored don't do him justice, detailed statistics don't do him justice, the only thing that does he justice is the subjective opinions of his super fans
 
This seems to be a running theme with r9 fans, highlights don't do him justice, trophies won don't do him justice, goals scored don't do him justice, detailed statistics don't do him justice, the only thing that does he justice is the subjective opinions of his super fans

Didn't mention this.
Highlights also don't do most players justice anyway.

Most football pundits have Ronaldo as one of the best strikers to have played the game, wonder why?

Its ok if you didn't get to see him play pre injury.

His profile of player would be absolutely appreciated today, just look at how people talked about Garbiel Jesus this season at Arsenal and he wasn't even close.
 
We've already discussed this re nostalgia, it's a nonsense argument used by people who never actually saw a player. It's a bit rich of a person with no memory of a player to say to someone who saw them "you dont remember it right" Well you dont remember it at all bud, who's in the better position?

And it doesn't really matter that a lot of people didn't watch him every week (although thousands of people onviously did), they saw him at World Cups, which are by far the most important games. This seeing foreign players every week thing is a luxury of the modern 24/7 media and internet coverage world. Bottom line is that if you had to judge CR7 just on watching him at World Cups, you'd be like 'this guy is extremely overrated'.

You keep doing this weird thing where you equate importance with judging ability. The world cup happens only every 4 years, it used to be the best level (though clearly isn't any more) there's only been 23 world cups ever and it's usually free to air or widely available around the world, moreso than club football. So yes it's a very important tournament.

It does not mean that someone who saw a player 7 games every 4 years, most of which were agaisnt championship level sides could accurately judge a player
 
Didn't mention this.
Highlights also don't do most players justice anyway.

Most football pundits have Ronaldo as one of the best strikers to have played the game, wonder why?

I mean it's a running theme through this thread not with you particularly. Any attempt to objectively compare him to current players is dismissed. Trophies, stats, highlights, etc

Probably because he was, but he wasn't near Messi and ronaldo