Would Ronaldo have been so adored if he played football in this current era

[RedRonaldo]

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Ronaldo was superior to C.Ronaldo in:

• Dribbling
• Finishing (yes he was)
• Passing
• Creativity
• Strength
• Pace (with the ball for sure)
• First touch

On top of that he had superior balance, flair and overall technique.

C.Ronaldo was a superior header of the ball, had a harder and better long distance shot and was a better poacher.

Both were very good at most things, so it’s not like either are vastly superior in any one thing, but I think the above list is pretty much accurate.

Well depends how you would compare them.

From age 18-22, L.Ronaldo was superior (during their early formative years)

From age 23-35, Cristiano was superior (for majority of their career)

In terms of their overall career, Cristiano was far superior, not even close.

In terms of their respective peak, L.Ronaldo is arguably more superior in terms of their performances, but Cristiano peak numbers are easily better.

The thing is, those attributes you've listed, L.Ronaldo only could maintain such unplayable level for 2-3 years. Outside of this 2-3 good years, the rest are just based on nostalgia feeling on how good he could have been if not for his injuries.

But of course most of these discussion are nostalgia by nature, so lets remember the few good peak years of L.Ronaldo, and stopped right there. And then lets compare it with the whole of Cristiano. That's what people tend to do these days.

 

[Fortitude]

It's not just about who scores the most goals, I mean I actually rate xavi as the third best player of thr generation then suarez the iniesta, but players from the past era have taken on this mythical status where people treat it like sacrelige to suggest a modern player is better, see xavi or iniesta vs Zidane,I've seen threads like that on here with people acting like it's a ridiculous comparison and it's Zidane easily. It's very hard to discuss these things because people don't like to think any modern players are equal to the ones they saw growing up

This is literally a straw man you enter every thread of this ilk with; a made up notion that you then do your damnedest to argue against. Players are always given the credit they are due: if the generation who grew up saw the next Ronaldo in the making, they would have no hesitation in saying so, ditto those who grew up with Maradona.

The reason you don’t hear such utterances should be obvious. We’ll be lucky to see another Maradona, Ronaldo or Messi in our lifetimes. They don’t grow on trees.

 

[Fortitude]

Not that i give the place any particular authority for its opinions, but you can actually still read a lot of the old Rec.Sport.Soccer threads from the mid-late '90s. it gives an ok impression of what online discussion of Ronaldo from a slightly older demogaphic was like at the time (those not quite as likely to be tainted by the dreaded nostalgia for 90s players), just before individual forums started to dominate. For younger people who might be unfamiliar, it was the biggest football usenet group and throughout the 90s was the main place football historians/fans could discuss the sport online. Essentially an early-internet r/soccer. It was also very influential for early internet efforts at compiling football stat/record archives. The unmoderated nature meant you could get very knowledgeable people and absolute lunatics/trolls frequently in the same threads.

Discussion tone back then actually wasn't that different from the last 10-15 years forums or socialmedia regarding top players/leagues. I've had a look through 90s Ronaldo topics and some others from that time about a year ago and while it can be hard to follow ( a lot of deleted/not archived posts), he definitely had his share of criticism (or just those being more cautious), alongside the people thinking he was definitely going to be an all-time great by the next 3-4 years. During his time at Barca, there had seemed to be a good amount of questioning if he would cut it in the superior Engli...i mean Italian league.There was also criticism of his style being too repetitively direct and dependent on those athletic runs to deal with the mythical italian defending, or people who thought Romario/Batistuta/Del Piero were just as good going into the 98 World Cup etc..

Basically all the same sort of shit that elite forwards from the past generation get as they established themselves, but with more speculation of all-time great potential.

One thing that surprised me was how much criticism he was getting during the 98 World Cup topics for the quality of his overall contribution in open-play. To be fair, a lot of that was probably before his two assists against Denmark. The immediate post-world cup discussion definitely had a lot of "didn't live up to his potential/the hype" / "definitely not a great yet" sort of opinions, and his performance in the final was shredded. It's obvious from them that it took some time to put the final into context, and for people to sift through the various, somewhat conflicting stories that were coming out of what happened to him.

Personally i thought he was an all-time great talent and the idea he wouldn't be loved or as hyped now to be very unlikely, however i do think some people are being harsh in the comparisons to Cristiano. He was definitely more naturally talented as an overall technician, but was still very much a heavily goalscoring focused, often individualistic 9. Comparing the 2008 to about 2014 or 15 Cristiano with him, and i don't think the idea one was far more of a "moments" player and pure goalscorer really holds up. Ronaldo pre-injury had plenty of games where the attempts at solo dribbling goals past a few defenders didn't work, and less, but still quite regular, where he didn't interact too well with his teammates to compensate...yet was usually still able to be effective and get a goal or two through a great moment of finishing and positioning/movement. Similar sort of impact as Cristiano at the end of the day, though Ronaldo (before injury) notably superior dribbling and at least equal strength/movement meant he was even better at creating space for others and harassing most of the defence over the course of the full game.

As supporting/creative forwards both were perfectly capable of very good moments until Cristiano started to seriously neglect that side of his game, but neither were consistent as threats with through balls, or as players who would regularly orchestrate the final-third with their passing.90% of the time the dribbles were done with the aim of taking a shot for themselves. I really don't think Ronaldo is much closer to someone like Messi or Pele in balancing out great creative/finishing threat than Cristiano is.

Doesn’t stack. He was one way at Barcelona; almost wholly different in Serie A where it was a revelation that he could play make and play blinding interconnective football at as rapid a pace as his recipients could handle, which reached a pinnacle at Copa 97 where he and Romario put on a tournament for the ages. He went into WC ‘98 injured (knee), but still did the best he could; the criticism would logically come from him then being compared to himself, which, on that scale he was about a 7/10. This is the kind of thing reserved for Messi too, where, for any other player, that supposed 7 becomes an 8 or 9.

Ronaldo wasn’t beyond reproach; his heading was nowhere near his ground game and his in-box poaching wasn’t all-time great standard (like Muller’s, Romário’s or Van Basten’s were), but the metrics he could improve in he was going about doing so in his organic growth before the injuries destroyed him. He proved that with highly skilled players, he could and would reduce his solo runs.

 

[Fortitude]

Stats isnt anything in football.

But 800 goals scored by Ronaldo and 700ish scored by Messi can't be just dismissed by sheer it's only stats.

800 fecking goals in the top division. Say what you want about 2000s footballs the cannavaros nesta and all the ifs and buts... You dont score 800 goals in modern football for nothing.

R9 for all his supposed greatness falls way short of producing the numbers. He can't even win the league in so many opportunities. Sure he won the World Cup with arguably one of Brazil strongest attacking lineup in modern years with 3 R Ronaldo Romario Rivaldo.

Look he's a great player. Top 10 if healthy. But let's not recreate history that he's better than Ronaldo and Messi.

When both Ronaldo and Messi hangs their boots, it'll be along time until a player can be said in the same breath as them.

We took things for granted. If we nitpick those 700 goals we're bound to find exquisite skills not worse than Ronaldo9. They just had so many goals each week we're taking things for granted.

Put it this way. If Ronaldo7 and Messi are playing in the 90s nobody would rave this much about Ronaldo 9

You’re skilled at ducking posts. How about you answer this: if these two are so out there, why such a massive dip in their performance at international level both in terms of goals and assists in majors and performance, where neither looked like their club selves. Messi redeemed that last year, but it took him effectively semi-retiring and preserving for that tournament to do so, why?

 

[youngrell]

Well depends how you would compare them.

From age 18-22, L.Ronaldo was superior (during their early formative years)

From age 23-35, Cristiano was superior (for majority of their career)

In terms of their overall career, Cristiano was far superior, not even close.

In terms of their respective peak, L.Ronaldo is arguably more superior in terms of their performances, but Cristiano peak numbers are easily better.

The thing is, those attributes you've listed, L.Ronaldo only could maintain such unplayable level for 2-3 years. Outside of this 2-3 good years, the rest are just based on nostalgia feeling on how good he could have been if not for his injuries.

But of course most of these discussion are nostalgia by nature, so lets remember the few good peak years of L.Ronaldo, and stopped right there. And then lets compare it with the whole of Cristiano. That's what people tend to do these days.

I’m talking at the peak of their powers, these are the attributes where Ronaldo came out on top. I am not comparing careers but the ability of the players. It’s possible he gets even better too, were it not for his horrific injury.

 

[Andrade]

That's because Messi and Ronaldo were already getting these comparisons and were clearly much better than suarez. In a world where they don't exist, but you have suarez tying the Premier league record, in a Liverpool team thay wouldn't be described as a super team, scoring 57 goals for Barcelona, while being a very skilled all round player, of course he'd have been getting these comparisons. That's been my point the whole thread, the presence of Messi and Ronaldo has totally warped the perception of attackers over the last decade and without them other attackers would have a much better legacy

You really talk complete shite, with the greatest of respect.

R9 came up in a world where Maradona was fresh in the memory and he was getting 'best ever' shouts as a young player. The reason it never happened for Suarez is simply because he's not on that level. If he was then the existence of Messi and Ronaldo would not prevent him from being talked about in those terms.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I still have nightmares from every time Ronaldo got the ball against us in the semi's in 98. Terrifying player he would be just as adored today.

 

[Sky1981]

You’re skilled at ducking posts. How about you answer this: if these two are so out there, why such a massive dip in their performance at international level both in terms of goals and assists in majors and performance, where neither looked like their club selves. Messi redeemed that last year, but it took him effectively semi-retiring and preserving for that tournament to do so, why?

You haven't answered mine. If R9 was so out there. Where are the goals?

 

[Sky1981]

They’ve both played around 400-500 more games than him, for a start. You’d expect them to have significantly more goals, wouldn’t you?

And when you factor in the injuries he sustained at under 24 years you can start to understand why he wasn’t able to maintain that level for as long as them.

Nobody is claiming that he had a better career then either Messi or C.Ronaldo, hell very few are even claiming he would have been better than Messi at all. But it’s not out of this world to speculate that he would have been close and probably above CR if he’d been injury free and able to continue on his trajectory without his knee exploding.

Break it down on Average, let's not forget that Messi and Ronaldo played those years when they're 33+

That's what people love to do, shit on current players just because "back in my days lad people used to kick iron balls and the losers would thrown out of the boat current players aint got shit on them" gravy train

Oh he's better than Cristiano Ronaldo, he just (put out a list of excuse here*)

 

[Dan_F]

I stopped reading when the OP said R9 had ‘arguably’ had a better international career than Zlatan. Who’s arguing against that

 

[Fortitude]

You haven't answered mine. If R9 was so out there. Where are the goals?

No, I asked you stuff - your question was not put to me. And I see you've again ducked whilst sticking to your narrative.

 

[youngrell]

Break it down on Average, let's not forget that Messi and Ronaldo played those years when they're 33+

That's what people love to do, shit on current players just because "back in my days lad people used to kick iron balls and the losers would thrown out of the boat current players aint got shit on them" gravy train

Oh he's better than Cristiano Ronaldo, he just (put out a list of excuse here*)

Great. So you are not going to bother to come with a reasonable debate?

I didn’t shit on anyone.

 

[jm99]

You really talk complete shite, with the greatest of respect.

R9 came up in a world where Maradona was fresh in the memory and he was getting 'best ever' shouts as a young player. The reason it never happened for Suarez is simply because he's not on that level. If he was then the existence of Messi and Ronaldo would not prevent him from being talked about in those terms.

It's not about whos fresh in the mind, if at the same time brazilian ronaldo was playing there were two other players in the same league scoring 15 more goals than him, assisting far more than him and being as dangerous during all round play he wouldn't get the same praise. If suarez had been the only player around during that time scoring 60 goals while being a brilliant all round player he'd have compared to r9, but people don't like accepting that Messi and Ronaldo massively raised the bar compared to what came before, so if people want to pretend r9 is as good as them they have to pretend suarez isn't comparable to r9. Because he beats him in terms of peak goalscoring (even though he wasn't his teams primary goalscorer) he outscored him while playing for a liverpool side that wasn't a super team by any stretch of the imagination and he out assists him.

The r9 fans just don't like any use of stats but it doesn't back up their nostalgia clouded eye test

 

[jm99]

You’re skilled at ducking posts. How about you answer this: if these two are so out there, why such a massive dip in their performance at international level both in terms of goals and assists in majors and performance, where neither looked like their club selves. Messi redeemed that last year, but it took him effectively semi-retiring and preserving for that tournament to do so, why?

Both outperformed r9 outside of major tournaments, in qualifiers and the like they're better. Now in terms of major tournaments neither played with a squad anything like as strong as Brazil 2002, Ronaldo played 2 World Cups at his peak, one they come against Spain in the last 16, which no player would have done anything against, the other he was carrying a knee injury, Messi played 2 at his peak as well, 2010 they had an awful manager and 2014, he had a decent tournament where Argentina got to the final.

Using the WC to judge players is so stupid because they usually only play 2 tournaments while they're at their peak, maybe 3 at a push, and an injury or a terrible manager can totally feck the tournament because it all takes place in the space of a month, whereas a knock that keeps you out for a month is only a small part of a club season, and am atrocious manager can get sacked, whereas I don't think any manager has ever been replaced during the actual tournament.

 

[jm99]

This is literally a straw man you enter every thread of this ilk with; a made up notion that you then do your damnedest to argue against. Players are always given the credit they are due: if the generation who grew up saw the next Ronaldo in the making, they would have no hesitation in saying so, ditto those who grew up with Maradona.

The reason you don’t hear such utterances should be obvious. We’ll be lucky to see another Maradona, Ronaldo or Messi in our lifetimes. They don’t grow on trees.

It would be absolutely astonishing if we never saw at least one, but more likely multiple players on that level, players are getting better training, better diet, better coaching from a younger age, with the explosion of football tv rights in Asia, we're likely going to see hundreds of millions of potential footballers from those regions coming through meaning a talent pool nearly double the size.

This is something the "things were better in my day" fans can't explain, why despite all these advantages of the modern game, tactics, training, diet, scouting etc. That all the best players ever seem to have come from before the year 2000

 

[Fortitude]

Jesus. Christ.

 

[Cooked Hen]

I remember watching him back in the 90s and wishing United would sign him.
Awesome player i even named my cat after him...

 

[Sky1981]

No, I asked you stuff - your question was not put to me. And I see you've again ducked whilst sticking to your narrative.

What narrative?

We are not allowed opinions here anymore?

I'd say R9 was a phenomenal player, but not as great as Messi / C.Ronaldo.

I don't even know what's your point anymore.

Football is subjective, you are allowed to think that a player isnt' as good as the other

We're going in circles, whatever floats your boat, if you think R9 is the God, it's your rights. Let's just agree to disagree whatever it is you're debating with me

 

[Sky1981]

Great. So you are not going to bother to come with a reasonable debate?

I didn’t shit on anyone.

What reasonable debate? You shit on stats, you shits on trophies, all you care about is "Yeah but I've seen him live and he's the best thing since sliced bread"

That's all there is, preferences. By all means I don't give a damn if you think R9 is the best ever player, I don't think he is for what it's worth.

 

[youngrell]

What reasonable debate? You shit on stats, you shits on trophies, all you care about is "Yeah but I've seen him live and he's the best thing since sliced bread"

That's all there is, preferences. By all means I don't give a damn if you think R9 is the best ever player, I don't think he is for what it's worth.

A reasonable debate where you counter what I have said with your own argument rather than having a fecking rage in written form.

I stated what I think Ronaldo is better at and you haven’t replied with any reason other than ‘wah he didn’t score 700 goals’.

 

[Sky1981]

A reasonable debate where you counter what I have said with your own argument rather than having a fecking rage in written form.

I stated what I think Ronaldo is better at and you haven’t replied with any reason other than ‘wah he didn’t score 700 goals’.

You stated things R9 is better than Ronaldo, which is by your own admission almost everything and all aspect. What was it? 6 out of 8 traits all better than Cristiano?

So I asked you, if he's so much better than Ronaldo, why isn't he scored as much as him. Fair don't you think considering you yourself listed him as having better traits than Cristiano Ronaldo. And it's not like it's a fine margin, the goal difference is in hundreds, even if you factor in average per season.

 

[Fortitude]

What narrative?

We are not allowed opinions here anymore?

I'd say R9 was a phenomenal player, but not as great as Messi / C.Ronaldo.

I don't even know what's your point anymore.

Football is subjective, you are allowed to think that a player isnt' as good as the other

We're going in circles, whatever floats your boat, if you think R9 is the God, it's your rights. Let's just agree to disagree whatever it is you're debating with me

Here:

How about you answer this: if these two are so out there, why such a massive dip in their performance at international level both in terms of goals and assists in majors and performance, where neither looked like their club selves. Messi redeemed that last year, but it took him effectively semi-retiring and preserving for that tournament to do so, why?

 

[Andrade]

It's not about whos fresh in the mind, if at the same time brazilian ronaldo was playing there were two other players in the same league scoring 15 more goals than him, assisting far more than him and being as dangerous during all round play he wouldn't get the same praise. If suarez had been the only player around during that time scoring 60 goals while being a brilliant all round player he'd have compared to r9, but people don't like accepting that Messi and Ronaldo massively raised the bar compared to what came before, so if people want to pretend r9 is as good as them they have to pretend suarez isn't comparable to r9. Because he beats him in terms of peak goalscoring (even though he wasn't his teams primary goalscorer) he outscored him while playing for a liverpool side that wasn't a super team by any stretch of the imagination and he out assists him.

The r9 fans just don't like any use of stats but it doesn't back up their nostalgia clouded eye test

You weren't there so you don't know. It's pretty simple bruh.

 

[Sky1981]

Here:

How about you answer this: if these two are so out there, why such a massive dip in their performance at international level both in terms of goals and assists in majors and performance, where neither looked like their club selves. Messi redeemed that last year, but it took him effectively semi-retiring and preserving for that tournament to do so, why?

I don't know. Nor that I care. I think for what it's worth both have finally shown their worth in International tournament winning each a Euro and A WC.

I simply think that Cristiano and Messi are the 2 GOAT of our lifetime, them and Pele / Maradonna which I never seen live but took people's word for it.

 

[jm99]

You weren't there so you don't know. It's pretty simple bruh.

I notice you've continually ignored trying to answer the question of why, despite a larger talent pool, better training, diet, scouting, coaching etc. In the modern game, that virtually all of the players you regard as the best as from before 2010, without admitting its based on nostalgia. I assume you must be abiut 80 years old given you comment on plenty of players that you otherwise wouldntt have been there for

 

[Andrade]

What reasonable debate? You shit on stats, you shits on trophies, all you care about is "Yeah but I've seen him live and he's the best thing since sliced bread"

That's all there is, preferences. By all means I don't give a damn if you think R9 is the best ever player, I don't think he is for what it's worth.

Who do you think is the best player you've ever seen?

 

[Sky1981]

Who do you think is the best player you've ever seen?

Messi and Ronaldo

 

[Andrade]

I notice you've continually ignored trying to answer the question of why, despite a larger talent pool, better training, diet, scouting, coaching etc. In the modern game, that virtually all of the players you regard as the best as from before 2010, without admitting its based on nostalgia. I assume you must be abiut 80 years old given you comment on plenty of players that you otherwise wouldntt have been there for

I haven't ignored anything good Sir. Did you see R9 play or not?

 

[Andrade]

Messi and Ronaldo

That's two players. Who is the best?

 

[youngrell]

You stated things R9 is better than Ronaldo, which is by your own admission almost everything and all aspect. What was it? 6 out of 8 traits all better than Cristiano?

So I asked you, if he's so much better than Ronaldo, why isn't he scored as much as him. Fair don't you think considering you yourself listed him as having better traits than Cristiano Ronaldo. And it's not like it's a fine margin, the goal difference is in hundreds, even if you factor in average per season.

Well there are a tonne of reasons he hasn’t scored as many.

The most obvious being his career threatening injury at 24. Imagine CR getting that at the end of his United career, how do you see his Real Madrid career going afterwards? Because I can tell you it’s not the same.

Then there’s the very obvious fact he didn’t even play 700 games never mind 1,000 + like CR (again mostly due to injury) so you’d expect his goals to be less.

I am not shitting on CR at all, his career and stats are phenomenal. The attributes I listed, I did say there was very little between them despite ranking Ronaldo higher for most. Margins are fine.

Now you tell me where I went wrong comparing their attributes? I’m open to debate.

 

[jm99]

I haven't ignored anything good Sir. Did you see R9 play or not?

Yes I watched him at the 2002 World Cup, saw some of his time at Madrid and have seen plenty highlights, which is likely thr same way most in this thread saw him as well.

If you aren't ignoring it then why don't you answer it, why despite all the advances since the year 2000 do you seem to believe that most of the greatest players are all from before this time

 

[Sky1981]

That's two players. Who is the best?

I don't care. I'm not going over this Messi vs Ronaldo again. It's been done to death.

You rank whatever, whoever you think is good in your head. I do mine.

With that, I'm out of this thread. Good day

 

[Fortitude]

Yes I watched him at the 2002 World Cup, saw some of his time at Madrid and have seen plenty highlights, which is likely thr same way most in this thread saw him as well.

If you aren't ignoring it then why don't you answer it, why despite all the advances since the year 2000 do you seem to believe that most of the greatest players are all from before this time

Which explains the terrible takes you have on his ability and why you compare him with the players that you do because that version of Ronaldo was nothing like the version of Ronaldo being referred to and was a very good striker in amongst a lot of very good strikers of the era, not the one who was levels ahead.

 

[jm99]

Which explains the terrible takes you have on his ability and why you compare him with the players that you do because that version of Ronaldo was nothing like the version of Ronaldo being referred to and was a very good striker in amongst a lot of very good strikers of the era, not the one who was levels ahead.

As I saod I've seen the highlights from his time at Barca and inter, which is how most people in this thread are likely to have see him as well

 

[Fortitude]

As I saod I've seen the highlights from his time at Barca and inter, which is how most people in this thread are likely to have see him as well

You shouldn't make assumptions, especially so since you've been off base throughout the thread.

 

[Andrade]

I don't care. I'm not going over this Messi vs Ronaldo again. It's been done to death.

You rank whatever, whoever you think is good in your head. I do mine.

With that, I'm out of this thread. Good day

I mean, all I did was ask a question.....

 

[Lay]

Basically this thread is “your opinion is just nostalgia”

 

[Andrade]

As I saod I've seen the highlights from his time at Barca and inter, which is how most people in this thread are likely to have see him as well

Ok so you never saw him but you are pronouncing categorically that those who did see him and were around to witness his impact have had their minds 'clouded by nostalgia'. I would submit that the people who saw him play are better placed to judge his greatness than anyone watching highlights and counting basic stats and comparing them across eras.

 

[JPRouve]

Ok so you never saw him but you are pronouncing categorically that those who did see him and were around to witness his impact have had their minds 'clouded by nostalgia'. I would submit that the people who saw him play are better placed to judge his greatness than anyone watching highlights and counting basic stats and comparing them across eras.

They are also better placed to judge sentiments about a player. The same is true for someone like Jonah Lomu or Rokocoko in Rugby, there is no highlight that will translate the feeling of watching these players play live and living these moments. In Football you could mention Zidane during the 2006 World Cup.

 

[jm99]

Ok so you never saw him but you are pronouncing categorically that those who did see him and were around to witness his impact have had their minds 'clouded by nostalgia'. I would submit that the people who saw him play are better placed to judge his greatness than anyone watching highlights and counting basic stats and comparing them across eras.

You're still ignoring the question of why players in general apparently aent as good after the year 2000, almost inexplicably.

I've seen you give opinions on Pele etc so I assume you must be mid 60s or so to remember him playing live, and lived in Brazil and watched his games live