Would Ronaldo have been so adored if he played football in this current era

[jm99]

R9 played in Serie A cause it was the best league back then.

Now he would be in PL or La Liga, but i think he would choose La Liga considering he is brazilian, i remember Ronaldinho was scouted by United when he was at PSG, and at the last moment Barca scouted him, and he joined them, despite Barca being shit back then.

Wasn't that more to do with Kenyon fecking us over on his way out, iirc we were supposed to get essien and robben as well that summer and they went to Chelsea instead

Edit: Actually no, Ronaldinho was the summer before, I do remember at the time it was basically confirmed he was joining us like on the BBC and skysports and then he went to barca

 

[Andrade]

If there had never been Messi or Ronaldo and suarez came along, tied the goalscoring record in the Premier league, then scored 40 goals in la liga and 57 overall for Barcelona while being incredibly skilful he'd be talked abiut in the same vein as r9, it was the fact that he played at the same time as two other much better players that harmed him

Dude, if you never saw R9, just please stop with the nonsense. When R9 first came on the scene he was getting compared to Pele. That never happened to freaking Luis Suarez.

 

[youngrell]

There is a lot of nostalgia surrounding R9 that is quite remarkable. Some of his fans tend to bring up his early goal-scoring records and compare them to Cristiano, who played in a different position as a pure winger/wide midfielder. However, it's important to note that the two players had different roles on the field.

In terms of overall player quality, CR7 is a clear winner over R9. At their prime, the only debatable aspect may be dribbling, but in every other aspect, CR7 surpasses R9 by a significant margin.

To those who still cling to R9 nostalgia, I would love to hear your arguments about what he was better at.

Username does not check out.

Ronaldo was superior to C.Ronaldo in:

• Dribbling
• Finishing (yes he was)
• Passing
• Creativity
• Strength
• Pace (with the ball for sure)
• First touch

On top of that he had superior balance, flair and overall technique.

C.Ronaldo was a superior header of the ball, had a harder and better long distance shot and was a better poacher.

Both were very good at most things, so it’s not like either are vastly superior in any one thing, but I think the above list is pretty much accurate.

 

[jm99]

Dude, if you never saw R9, just please stop with the nonsense. When R9 first came on the scene he was getting compared to Pele. That never happened to freaking Luis Suarez.

That's because Messi and Ronaldo were already getting these comparisons and were clearly much better than suarez. In a world where they don't exist, but you have suarez tying the Premier league record, in a Liverpool team thay wouldn't be described as a super team, scoring 57 goals for Barcelona, while being a very skilled all round player, of course he'd have been getting these comparisons. That's been my point the whole thread, the presence of Messi and Ronaldo has totally warped the perception of attackers over the last decade and without them other attackers would have a much better legacy

 

[rimaldo]

nah. if you take your rose tinted specs off, he was basically just a tanned lee trundle.

 

[Libero_of_Yore]

That's because Messi and Ronaldo were already getting these comparisons and were clearly much better than suarez. In a world where they don't exist, but you have suarez tying the Premier league record, in a Liverpool team thay wouldn't be described as a super team, scoring 57 goals for Barcelona, while being a very skilled all round player, of course he'd have been getting these comparisons. That's been my point the whole thread, the presence of Messi and Ronaldo has totally warped the perception of attackers over the last decade and without them other attackers would have a much better legacy

CR7 was not being compared to Pele, that is not true. Leo Messi was compared to the GOATs very early, even by CR7s manager, Fergie.
And did I just read that Suarez had a better first touch and was better at dribbling than R9? Oh lord.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Ronaldo Yes, he was the first player of his type in my lifetime. The goal scorer who was also just as good at dribbling.

But I have my doubts about Zidane. He would be up against statistical beasts like Kevin De Bruyne, I don't know if he would be seen as the great player he was in this current age.

 

[GifLord]

Wasn't that more to do with Kenyon fecking us over on his way out, iirc we were supposed to get essien and robben as well that summer and they went to Chelsea instead

Edit: Actually no, Ronaldinho was the summer before, I do remember at the time it was basically confirmed he was joining us like on the BBC and skysports and then he went to barca

There's an old Barca docu about Laporta and there's an interesting segment at what went on hours berfore Ronaldinho signed for them
https://www.veoh.com/watch/v15535532gn6xrQGP
starts at 6:00

 

[jm99]

There's an old Barca docu about Laporta and there's an interesting segment at what went on hours berfore Ronaldinho signed for them
https://www.veoh.com/watch/v15535532gn6xrQGP
starts at 6:00

"The player shall be prohibited from taking substances that will diminish his performance" I wonder if that included alcohol

I wonder if we'd sold Beckham to Barca instead of real if they'd have backed off Ronaldinho, I've seen it said we wouldn't have signed Ronaldo if we got Ronaldinho but in his first season he wasn't really a full regular, I think we could have went for both

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I don't know I mean I've seen mostly highlights of r9, but suarez seemed a better goalscorer at his peak, better first touch (one of the best I've ever seen) and as skilled a dribbler, but obviously not at the same pace as r9. I really do think suarez particularly is underrated because he played at the same time as Messi and Ronaldo, neymar and Lewandowski maybe not as much, but suarez scored nearly 60 goals in a season, he also scored 31 in the Premier league and it certainly wasn't in a stacked Liverpool side. His ratio in the Premier league I think was the same as r9s at Barca (31 in 33, vs 34 in 37), that Liverpool team certainly wouldn't be described as a super team by any means. Had Messi and Ronaldo not been playing I think he'd be considered the best player since r9 and Zidane (maybe alongside xavi and iniesta but attackers usually are rated higher) but since there were two other players who were clearly better playing in the same league, he isn't considered on that level

Suarez was of course superb player, but he is no where near the ability of R9 in terms of first touch or ball control as well as pace and power, and Suarez didn't have the ability to begin with to compete with Messi and CR7, no one did between 2009-2018, not Lewa, not Benzema and certainly not Suarez, since at least the 3 of them played in a stacked teams and yet didn't manage to even get anywhere near to the numbers Messi and CR7 were posting season after season in that decade.

And the bolded part basically proves my argument on R9 not winning much of trophies during his club career, Surez scored a lot of goals in the PL and yet didnt win any major trophy with Liverpool, but he won plenty with Barca alongside Messi, Neymar,Ineista and co, being in a stacked team not only aids you in winning trophies but it also helps in terms of individual success as a player like being top goal scorer, winning individual accolades and so, and on individual accolades, R9 still won few of them (Balon Do'r and FIFA awards)in his early 20s despite the fact that he didn't win much of trophies with his clubs, he was basically universally acknowledged at that time as the Best Player in the world, arguably Between 1996-1998 before injuries wrecked him, he still made a comeback and won WC in 2002, changing the way he played since his body couldn't cope with his explosive style.

Anyways let's not keep going back and forth, agree to disagree..

 

[owlo]

He would have been better adored.

Also, with strikers better protected by referees these days, may be he would never had that dreaded injury (two big knee injuries + ankle) or got better surgical treatment - he could have been a bigger star, if anything.

Unfortunately I don't think this would have been true. Can't remember where I read it but apparently his knee/leg physiology was a freak of nature, (the dude could do the 100m in 10.3 secs) with his muscle fibres or whatever. That huge power and explosiveness combined with trochlear dysplasia made it quite inevitable.

 

[Theonas]

That's because Messi and Ronaldo were already getting these comparisons and were clearly much better than suarez. In a world where they don't exist, but you have suarez tying the Premier league record, in a Liverpool team thay wouldn't be described as a super team, scoring 57 goals for Barcelona, while being a very skilled all round player, of course he'd have been getting these comparisons. That's been my point the whole thread, the presence of Messi and Ronaldo has totally warped the perception of attackers over the last decade and without them other attackers would have a much better legacy

CR was never compared to Pele or Maradona. He was always compared to Messi. When Messi came on the scene he was instantly compared to Maradona. CR served a brilliant narrative over a decade because his numbers were enough to create a discussion. But never was his ability mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Unfortunately I don't think this would have been true. Can't remember where I read it but apparently his knee/leg physiology was a freak of nature, (the dude could do the 100m in 10.3 secs) with his muscle fibres or whatever. That huge power and explosiveness combined with trochlear dysplasia made it quite inevitable.

Haaland is seemingly a freak of nature too and Pep has been talking about how City are constamtly caring for him.

"I don't know what he has done in Dortmund but here we take care of him 24 hours, we have incredible physios and doctors behind every single detail," said Guardiola. "It is always difficult for me to understand why clubs spend a lot of money on players and then leave them.

"With this demanding schedule with games every three or four days, behind the players we have to have an incredible entourage to take care of them. It's so demanding today, with nutrition, rest, food, sleep, training how many minutes.

"There is data that says they cannot train more than 10-15 minutes, otherwise they would be at risk. People say why substitute him against Leipzig when he scored all the goals? He was injured after the Burnley game, could not play with Norway or with us against Liverpool.

"We know he has to be like a watch because he's so big; physios, massage, backs, shoulders, problem in his tendons and everything. He works most of the time inside of the training centre, not on the pitch.

"Today in modern football, normally the players train more behind the scenes than on the pitch."

I doubt Ronaldo received this level of care.

 

[jm99]

CR was never compared to Pele or Maradona. He was always compared to Messi. When Messi came on the scene he was instantly compared to Maradona. CR served a brilliant narrative over a decade because his numbers were enough to create a discussion. But never was his ability mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona.

That doesn't really make any sense. Ronaldo was often compared to Messi, with many putting him on the same level or some ahead and Messi was compared to maradona and Pele but Ronaldo couldn't be compared to maradona or Pele?

 

[owlo]

Haaland is seemingly a freak of nature too and Pep has been talking about how City are constamtly caring for him.

To put it into perspective, according to wiki, there are currently 172 sprinters who've run a 10 second 100m, and most of those were both post 2000 and many probably doped. There are no other footballers anywhere near that speed and certainly none who could change direction like Ronaldo. He also already had the knee issues at 19, but just kept playing through the pain and making it worse. I think that Haaland is a remarkable footballer, but I've not seen anything to suggest [article wise] that he is physically abnormal rather than a strong fast lad who's excellent at football. Open to correction.

Ps. At Inter he was absolutely receiving that level of care. Probably not sports science wise as it's not where it is now, but medically and attention wise he was. I think after he did his knee the first time (before the huge rerupture) he saw about 4 or 5 specialists around the world before playing again.

Pps. Haaland is absolutely special. Not saying he isn't, but as a footballer not an athlete. Fun fact, at approaching 20yo only Haaland (60) and Ronaldo (76) had the figures they did. Messi/C Ronaldo were far behind.

 

[dumbo]

Einstein was pretty smart but it's simply nostalgia to say he would stand out today when Elon Musk has raised the bar so high. Compare the stats and YouTube and you'll see.

 

[Theonas]

That doesn't really make any sense. Ronaldo was often compared to Messi, with many putting him on the same level or some ahead and Messi was compared to maradona and Pele but Ronaldo couldn't be compared to maradona or Pele?

That's the media narrative for you. CR was seen as promising prodigy kid when he moved to us, became the best player in the world in 2008. Then Messi came into the picture and dominated world football being compared to Maradona since he was a teenager. After 4 years or so, CR brought himself in the conversation for who is the greatest of the era and with the Real vs Barcelona rivalry, it became a thing. Many even used the fact that no one saw him at that level when he was a teenager to praise him and his mental strength for forcing himself in the conversation. This is why when last year, Messi won his WC, the debate instantly shifted from Messi vs Ronaldo to Messi vs Pelé and Maradona. CR's determination and unprecedented numbers mixed with the a media hungry to create narratives created that comparison but it was never a status CR enjoyed from the beginning of his career, or from the looks of it, the end of it.

 

[Righteous Steps]

If there had never been Messi or Ronaldo and suarez came along, tied the goalscoring record in the Premier league, then scored 40 goals in la liga and 57 overall for Barcelona while being incredibly skilful he'd be talked abiut in the same vein as r9, it was the fact that he played at the same time as two other much better players that harmed him

Mate Romario scored 30 goals in 33 La Liga games was the CL top scorer two seasons, winner of the World cup golden ball and Bronze Ball in 94, scored a goal every game in the Netherlands when it was much rarer and Erevidisie actually was a very strong league and R9 was still rated higher. You make too much of a simplistic argument and i think this is driven by the fact you never actually watched these players in their prime and you're too caught up in your own hubris to actually do your due dilligence other than go on wikipedia and search their goal totals.


Suarez himself would probably tell you R9 was better at his peak, if you simply base your whole football experience around who scores the most goals then you take the joy out of it, and probably wouldn't understand why Zidane Maradona Ronaldinho were considered the greatest players of their times when there was always a player with better stats.

If Suarez was in that era for one he probably doesn't score 40 goals, because he wouldn't be playing with the greatest player of all time Neymar, a contender for the greatest midfielder of all time in Iniesta and so on, if managed to do what Romario did which basically close to a goal a game in the La Liga, how he done it would still be a big indication of if like R9 he would be spoken of as a player that could go on to surpass Pele and Maradona.

I watched Suarez for the majority of his career and i can tell you he never had that ability, regardless of era.

 

[Righteous Steps]

I don't know I mean I've seen mostly highlights of r9, but suarez seemed a better goalscorer at his peak, better first touch (one of the best I've ever seen) and as skilled a dribbler, but obviously not at the same pace as r9. I really do think suarez particularly is underrated because he played at the same time as Messi and Ronaldo, neymar and Lewandowski maybe not as much, but suarez scored nearly 60 goals in a season, he also scored 31 in the Premier league and it certainly wasn't in a stacked Liverpool side. His ratio in the Premier league I think was the same as r9s at Barca (31 in 33, vs 34 in 37), that Liverpool team certainly wouldn't be described as a super team by any means. Had Messi and Ronaldo not been playing I think he'd be considered the best player since r9 and Zidane (maybe alongside xavi and iniesta but attackers usually are rated higher) but since there were two other players who were clearly better playing in the same league, he isn't considered on that level

Liverpool that season had two of the top scorers in the league by the way, and Salah came and bettered the goal tally(albeit in 3 more games) in a team that finished 4th.

Also Suarez is ranked where he is supposed to be the 3rd best player of his generation arguably, of the same level as someone like Henry, some people would say he is the best player since R9 outside of Messi and Ronaldo anyways, better than R9 though, no.

 

[jm99]

Mate Romario scored 30 goals in 33 La Liga games was the CL top scorer two seasons, winner of the World cup golden ball and Bronze Ball in 94, scored a goal every game in the Netherlands when it was much rarer and Erevidisie actually was a very strong league and R9 was still rated higher. You make too much of a simplistic argument and i think this is driven by the fact you never actually watched these players in their prime and you're too caught up in your own hubris to actually do your due dilligence other than go on wikipedia and search their goal totals.


Suarez himself would probably tell you R9 was better at his peak, if you simply base your whole football experience around who scores the most goals then you take the joy out of it, and probably wouldn't understand why Zidane Maradona Ronaldinho were considered the greatest players of their times when there was always a player with better stats.

If Suarez was in that era for one he probably doesn't score 40 goals, because he wouldn't be playing with the greatest player of all time Neymar, a contender for the greatest midfielder of all time in Iniesta and so on, if managed to do what Romario did which basically close to a goal a game in the La Liga, how he done it would still be a big indication of if like R9 he would be spoken of as a player that could go on to surpass Pele and Maradona.

I watched Suarez for the majority of his career and i can tell you he never goals that ability, regardless of era.

It's not just about who scores the most goals, I mean I actually rate xavi as the third best player of thr generation then suarez the iniesta, but players from the past era have taken on this mythical status where people treat it like sacrelige to suggest a modern player is better, see xavi or iniesta vs Zidane,I've seen threads like that on here with people acting like it's a ridiculous comparison and it's Zidane easily. It's very hard to discuss these things because people don't like to think any modern players are equal to the ones they saw growing up

 

[jm99]

Liverpool that season had two of the top scorers in the league by the way, and Salah came and bettered the goal tally(albeit in 3 more games) in a team that finished 4th.

Also Suarez is ranked where he is supposed to be the 3rd best player of his generation arguably, of the same level as someone like Henry, some people would say he is the best player since R9 outside of Messi and Ronaldo anyways, better than R9 though, no.

Heres Liverpool's team inbthe game against man city at the end of that season

Mingolet
Johnson
Flanagan
Skrtel
Sahko
Henderson
Gerrard
Coutinho
Sturridge
Sterling
Suarez

Now to me, that isn't a superteam, or an super stacked side, I'd imagine you wouldn't take it over the teams r9 played in in the 90s,but maybe you have a looser definition of super team where a backing of Johnson, Flanagan, skrtel and sahko with mingolet in goals qualifies

 

[Righteous Steps]

Heres Liverpool's team inbthe game against man city at the end of that season

Mingolet
Johnson
Flanagan
Skrtel
Sahko
Henderson
Gerrard
Coutinho
Sturridge
Sterling
Suarez

Now to me, that isn't a superteam, or an super stacked side, I'd imagine you wouldn't take it over the teams r9 played in in the 90s,but maybe you have a looser definition of super team where a backing of Johnson, Flanagan, skrtel and sahko with mingolet in goals qualifies

Whats even your argument i don't get it, that team was just about ok but also had the 2nd top scorer in the league (Sturridge) in the team as well. Then years later Salah comes around and scores 32 goals, in a team that finishes 4th, ok so what what does that have to do with Ronaldo?

 

[jm99]

Whats even your argument i don't get it, that team was just about ok but also had the 2nd top scorer in the league (Sturridge) in the team as well. Then years later Salah comes around and scores 32 goals, in a team that finishes 4th, ok so what what does that have to do with Ronaldo?

People have said modern players only score so much because they play in superteams, but clearly that isn't the case there

 

[Righteous Steps]

It's not just about who scores the most goals, I mean I actually rate xavi as the third best player of thr generation then suarez the iniesta, but players from the past era have taken on this mythical status where people treat it like sacrelige to suggest a modern player is better, see xavi or iniesta vs Zidane,I've seen threads like that on here with people acting like it's a ridiculous comparison and it's Zidane easily. It's very hard to discuss these things because people don't like to think any modern players are equal to the ones they saw growing up

You said Suarez was as skilled dribbler as R9, that makes me think you don't know what you're talking about, like seriously. I compared Suarez to Baggio and Romario, its not a modern vs past thing, those are two of the greatest players of the 90's.

 

[jm99]

You said Suarez was as skilled dribbler as R9, that makes me think you don't know what you're talking about, like seriously. I compared Suarez to Baggio and Romario, its not a modern vs past thing, those are two of the greatest players of the 90's.

I said he's technically as skilled, he couldn't do it at the same pace, or have the strength or speed that r9 did, but om a technical level he was clearly incredibly skilled

 

[Righteous Steps]

People have said modern players only score so much because they play in superteams, but clearly that isn't the case there

I don't think anyone said that, people said in regards to winning trophies that talent was way more spread out in terms of teams you were competing with and thats the truth, i also made the point of a Serie A team that finished 4th which comprised of 2 all time great defenders in Thuram and Cannavaro, and an all time great GK in Buffon which still finished 4th one year, that type of quality in defence from a team outside the big two in each league is pretty much unheard of in modern day football.

 

[Sky1981]

Username does not check out.

Ronaldo was superior to C.Ronaldo in:

• Dribbling
• Finishing (yes he was)
• Passing
• Creativity
• Strength
• Pace (with the ball for sure)
• First touch

On top of that he had superior balance, flair and overall technique.

C.Ronaldo was a superior header of the ball, had a harder and better long distance shot and was a better poacher.

Both were very good at most things, so it’s not like either are vastly superior in any one thing, but I think the above list is pretty much accurate.

So he's so much better than ronaldo who scored 800 goals?

Or the 90s defender was so much better than the current defender?

Why can't he score more if he's 8 out of 10 traits better than Ronaldo?

 

[Righteous Steps]

I said he's technically as skilled, he couldn't do it at the same pace, or have the strength or speed that r9 did, but om a technical level he was clearly incredibly skilled

He wasn't as skilled dribbler as R9, a lot of Suarez dribbles could come off as uncoordinated, he would bounce the ball against your shins, then knock it through your legs and whatever, he had a real maverick style of dribbling but R9 he was not in that respect, not at all.

 

[jm99]

He wasn't as skilled dribbler as R9, a lot of Suarez dribbles could come off as uncoordinated, he would bounce the ball against your shins, then knock it through your legs and whatever, he had a real maverick style of dribbling but R9 he was not in that respect, not at all.

He absolutely was, he had a ridiculous ability to feint and nutmeg players, he didn't have the same repertoire of tricks as r9 but that's not really what's most important with dribbling, Messi is a far better dribbler than Ronaldinho, even though Ronaldinho produced skill moves that Messi couldn't because Messi just used his touch, and feints and acceleration to beat players, suarez is similar, but with less acceleration and pace, technically he was a great dribbler. I think if suarez was some player from the past and you just saw a highlights video the way most people saw r9, apart from the odd game that would be shown on TV here, he'd have the same kind of mythical status.

You can see it in here, with people saying today's defenders aren't as good as the 90s defenders, and attackers aren't as good as attackers from then. Which is odd given the better training, diet, tactics and far larger talent pool to choose from, that playersbjust magically got worse after the year 2000

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Not that i give the place any particular authority for its opinions, but you can actually still read a lot of the old Rec.Sport.Soccer threads from the mid-late '90s. it gives an ok impression of what online discussion of Ronaldo from a slightly older demogaphic was like at the time (those not quite as likely to be tainted by the dreaded nostalgia for 90s players), just before individual forums started to dominate. For younger people who might be unfamiliar, it was the biggest football usenet group and throughout the 90s was the main place football historians/fans could discuss the sport online. Essentially an early-internet r/soccer. It was also very influential for early internet efforts at compiling football stat/record archives. The unmoderated nature meant you could get very knowledgeable people and absolute lunatics/trolls frequently in the same threads.

Discussion tone back then actually wasn't that different from the last 10-15 years forums or socialmedia regarding top players/leagues. I've had a look through 90s Ronaldo topics and some others from that time about a year ago and while it can be hard to follow ( a lot of deleted/not archived posts), he definitely had his share of criticism (or just those being more cautious), alongside the people thinking he was definitely going to be an all-time great by the next 3-4 years. During his time at Barca, there had seemed to be a good amount of questioning if he would cut it in the superior Engli...i mean Italian league.There was also criticism of his style being too repetitively direct and dependent on those athletic runs to deal with the mythical italian defending, or people who thought Romario/Batistuta/Del Piero were just as good going into the 98 World Cup etc..

Basically all the same sort of shit that elite forwards from the past generation get as they established themselves, but with more speculation of all-time great potential.

One thing that surprised me was how much criticism he was getting during the 98 World Cup topics for the quality of his overall contribution in open-play. To be fair, a lot of that was probably before his two assists against Denmark. The immediate post-world cup discussion definitely had a lot of "didn't live up to his potential/the hype" / "definitely not a great yet" sort of opinions, and his performance in the final was shredded. It's obvious from them that it took some time to put the final into context, and for people to sift through the various, somewhat conflicting stories that were coming out of what happened to him.

Personally i thought he was an all-time great talent and the idea he wouldn't be loved or as hyped now to be very unlikely, however i do think some people are being harsh in the comparisons to Cristiano. He was definitely more naturally talented as an overall technician, but was still very much a heavily goalscoring focused, often individualistic 9. Comparing the 2008 to about 2014 or 15 Cristiano with him, and i don't think the idea one was far more of a "moments" player and pure goalscorer really holds up. Ronaldo pre-injury had plenty of games where the attempts at solo dribbling goals past a few defenders didn't work, and less, but still quite regular, where he didn't interact too well with his teammates to compensate...yet was usually still able to be effective and get a goal or two through a great moment of finishing and positioning/movement. Similar sort of impact as Cristiano at the end of the day, though Ronaldo (before injury) notably superior dribbling and at least equal strength/movement meant he was even better at creating space for others and harassing most of the defence over the course of the full game.

As supporting/creative forwards both were perfectly capable of very good moments until Cristiano started to seriously neglect that side of his game, but neither were consistent as threats with through balls, or as players who would regularly orchestrate the final-third with their passing.90% of the time the dribbles were done with the aim of taking a shot for themselves. I really don't think Ronaldo is much closer to someone like Messi or Pele in balancing out great creative/finishing threat than Cristiano is.

 

[CrockedRain]

Not that i give the place any particular authority for its opinions, but you can actually still read a lot of the old Rec.Sport.Soccer threads from the mid-late '90s. it gives an ok impression of what online discussion of Ronaldo from a slightly older demogaphic was like at the time (those not quite as likely to be tainted by the dreaded nostalgia for 90s players), just before individual forums started to dominate. For younger people who might be unfamiliar, it was the biggest football usenet group and throughout the 90s was the main place football historians/fans could discuss the sport online. Essentially an early-internet r/soccer. It was also very influential for early internet efforts at compiling football stat/record archives. The unmoderated nature meant you could get very knowledgeable people and absolute lunatics/trolls frequently in the same threads.

Discussion tone back then actually wasn't that different from the last 10-15 years forums or socialmedia regarding top players/leagues. I've had a look through 90s Ronaldo topics and some others from that time about a year ago and while it can be hard to follow ( a lot of deleted/not archived posts), he definitely had his share of criticism (or just those being more cautious), alongside the people thinking he was definitely going to be an all-time great by the next 3-4 years. During his time at Barca, there had seemed to be a good amount of questioning if he would cut it in the superior Engli...i mean Italian league.There was also criticism of his style being too repetitively direct and dependent on those athletic runs to deal with the mythical italian defending, or people who thought Romario/Batistuta/Del Piero were just as good going into the 98 World Cup etc..

Basically all the same sort of shit that elite forwards from the past generation get as they established themselves, but with more speculation of all-time great potential.

One thing that surprised me was how much criticism he was getting during the 98 World Cup topics for the quality of his overall contribution in open-play. To be fair, a lot of that was probably before his two assists against Denmark. The immediate post-world cup discussion definitely had a lot of "didn't live up to his potential/the hype" / "definitely not a great yet" sort of opinions, and his performance in the final was shredded. It's obvious from them that it took some time to put the final into context, and for people to sift through the various, somewhat conflicting stories that were coming out of what happened to him.

Personally i thought he was an all-time great talent and the idea he wouldn't be loved or as hyped now to be very unlikely, however i do think some people are being harsh in the comparisons to Cristiano. He was definitely more naturally talented as an overall technician, but was still very much a heavily goalscoring focused, often individualistic 9. Comparing the 2008 to about 2014 or 15 Cristiano with him, and i don't think the idea one was far more of a "moments" player and pure goalscorer really holds up. Ronaldo pre-injury had plenty of games where the attempts at solo dribbling goals past a few defenders didn't work, and less, but still quite regular, where he didn't interact too well with his teammates to compensate...yet was usually still able to be effective and get a goal or two through a great moment of finishing and positioning/movement. Similar sort of impact as Cristiano at the end of the day, though Ronaldo (before injury) notably superior dribbling and at least equal strength/movement meant he was even better at creating space for others and harassing most of the defence over the course of the full game.

As supporting/creative forwards both were perfectly capable of very good moments until Cristiano started to seriously neglect that side of his game, but neither were consistent as threats with through balls, or as players who would regularly orchestrate the final-third with their passing.90% of the time the dribbles were done with the aim of taking a shot for themselves. I really don't think Ronaldo is much closer to someone like Messi or Pele in balancing out great creative/finishing threat than Cristiano is.

You described my impression of R9, Very direct, Often wasteful and with less buildup capability than many here want to claim. Obviously he was phenomenal and innovative on the ball, Also regarding other comment i've seen here, Operating and maintaining control in full speed is definitely one of the hallmark of technical ability, R9 was possibly the best ever to combine generational athletic capability with generational technical ability, The result look freakish and unsustainable.

As far as Cristiano goes, I've no doubt in my mind that he was *significantly* better creator than R9 between 2005-2015. He was more involved in the buildup, His take-ons ability was consistently elite and legendary in periods. If you exclude Messi (Which's all time great level through baller and matched by nobody since recorded statistics), Early 2010s Cristiano (Including his 06/07 and 08/09 seasons) was the most prolific throughballer forward in Europe, For example, In 10/11 and 11/12 seasons he provided as much through balls in La Liga alone as Kylian Mbappe did since his debut season in Monaco around 2015 *In all club and country competitions*, That mean 316 official games. Cristiano is 08/09 season provided almost twice the amount peak "creator" Eden Hazard did in the prem 10 years later. In term of ball carrying Cristiano come up on top too, Although being a winger naturally meant it was part of his role.

Cristiano created as much big chances and key passes from open play between 2009-2014 as literal Leo fecking Messi, A GOAT level creator.
Cristiano was in his prime was a player to executed 120-170 crosses per domestic season (And i suspect considerably more in his first 3 seasons in United but i've no stats to confirm), That's around the same output as Leicester Riyad Mahrez and Arsenal Fabregas.
Cristiano is a player that averaged 20 assists per year between 2010-2014.
We're talking here about completely different realms of ability, It's more fair to call R9 "average" creator than elite one, While in Cristiano case there's every single statistics and video to back up all the claims of him being elite creator, Just ask.

I think Messi alien general play took the attention from Cristiano complete mastery of football (As well as his staggering drop in general performance post 2015, Victim of his own longevity as relevant player), Excluding Pele, Messi and maybe Puskas, I can't think of any other player with all time great scoring output combined with the general play Cristiano showed in his prime, R9 doesn't belong in that selective category (And if we're being honest, I'm not even sure he can meet the "all time great level scoring output" criteria).

 

[Sky1981]

Stats isnt anything in football.

But 800 goals scored by Ronaldo and 700ish scored by Messi can't be just dismissed by sheer it's only stats.

800 fecking goals in the top division. Say what you want about 2000s footballs the cannavaros nesta and all the ifs and buts... You dont score 800 goals in modern football for nothing.

R9 for all his supposed greatness falls way short of producing the numbers. He can't even win the league in so many opportunities. Sure he won the World Cup with arguably one of Brazil strongest attacking lineup in modern years with 3 R Ronaldo Romario Rivaldo.

Look he's a great player. Top 10 if healthy. But let's not recreate history that he's better than Ronaldo and Messi.

When both Ronaldo and Messi hangs their boots, it'll be along time until a player can be said in the same breath as them.

We took things for granted. If we nitpick those 700 goals we're bound to find exquisite skills not worse than Ronaldo9. They just had so many goals each week we're taking things for granted.

Put it this way. If Ronaldo7 and Messi are playing in the 90s nobody would rave this much about Ronaldo 9

 

[Righteous Steps]

Stats isnt anything in football.

But 800 goals scored by Ronaldo and 700ish scored by Messi can't be just dismissed by sheer it's only stats.

800 fecking goals in the top division. Say what you want about 2000s footballs the cannavaros nesta and all the ifs and buts... You dont score 800 goals in modern football for nothing.

R9 for all his supposed greatness falls way short of producing the numbers. He can't even win the league in so many opportunities. Sure he won the World Cup with arguably one of Brazil strongest attacking lineup in modern years with 3 R Ronaldo Romario Rivaldo.

Look he's a great player. Top 10 if healthy. But let's not recreate history that he's better than Ronaldo and Messi.

When both Ronaldo and Messi hangs their boots, it'll be along time until a player can be said in the same breath as them.

We took things for granted. If we nitpick those 700 goals we're bound to find exquisite skills not worse than Ronaldo9. They just had so many goals each week we're taking things for granted.

Put it this way. If Ronaldo7 and Messi are playing in the 90s nobody would rave this much about Ronaldo 9

You put Cristiano and Messi together as if Cristiano is as good.

And R9 would be a big deal regardless, Best was a big deal in an era that contained Muller as was Cruyff, I don’t get your argument, it again reduces to goals as if how we are entertained by the sport doesn’t play a big part in our emotions and rationale hence why a player like Best can be raved about in the same era as a Muller who is vastly outscoring him.

 

[Righteous Steps]

You described my impression of R9, Very direct, Often wasteful and with less buildup capability than many here want to claim. Obviously he was phenomenal and innovative on the ball, Also regarding other comment i've seen here, Operating and maintaining control in full speed is definitely one of the hallmark of technical ability, R9 was possibly the best ever to combine generational athletic capability with generational technical ability, The result look freakish and unsustainable.

As far as Cristiano goes, I've no doubt in my mind that he was *significantly* better creator than R9 between 2005-2015. He was more involved in the buildup, His take-ons ability was consistently elite and legendary in periods. If you exclude Messi (Which's all time great level through baller and matched by nobody since recorded statistics), Early 2010s Cristiano (Including his 06/07 and 08/09 seasons) was the most prolific throughballer forward in Europe, For example, In 10/11 and 11/12 seasons he provided as much through balls in La Liga alone as Kylian Mbappe did since his debut season in Monaco around 2015 *In all club and country competitions*, That mean 316 official games. Cristiano is 08/09 season provided almost twice the amount peak "creator" Eden Hazard did in the prem 10 years later. In term of ball carrying Cristiano come up on top too, Although being a winger naturally meant it was part of his role.

Cristiano created as much big chances and key passes from open play between 2009-2014 as literal Leo fecking Messi, A GOAT level creator.
Cristiano was in his prime was a player to executed 120-170 crosses per domestic season (And i suspect considerably more in his first 3 seasons in United but i've no stats to confirm), That's around the same output as Leicester Riyad Mahrez and Arsenal Fabregas.
Cristiano is a player that averaged 20 assists per year between 2010-2014.
We're talking here about completely different realms of ability, It's more fair to call R9 "average" creator than elite one, While in Cristiano case there's every single statistics and video to back up all the claims of him being elite creator, Just ask.

I think Messi alien general play took the attention from Cristiano complete mastery of football (As well as his staggering drop in general performance post 2015, Victim of his own longevity as relevant player), Excluding Pele, Messi and maybe Puskas, I can't think of any other player with all time great scoring output combined with the general play Cristiano showed in his prime, R9 doesn't belong in that selective category (And if we're being honest, I'm not even sure he can meet the "all time great level scoring output" criteria).

Suarez, Di Stefano, Cruyff

 

[Righteous Steps]

He absolutely was, he had a ridiculous ability to feint and nutmeg players, he didn't have the same repertoire of tricks as r9 but that's not really what's most important with dribbling, Messi is a far better dribbler than Ronaldinho, even though Ronaldinho produced skill moves that Messi couldn't because Messi just used his touch, and feints and acceleration to beat players, suarez is similar, but with less acceleration and pace, technically he was a great dribbler. I think if suarez was some player from the past and you just saw a highlights video the way most people saw r9, apart from the odd game that would be shown on TV here, he'd have the same kind of mythical status.

You can see it in here, with people saying today's defenders aren't as good as the 90s defenders, and attackers aren't as good as attackers from then. Which is odd given the better training, diet, tactics and far larger talent pool to choose from, that playersbjust magically got worse after the year 2000

Suarez wasn’t even the best dribbler in the PL during his years here, Hazard was., Neymar and Messi were better dribblers at Barca also. He was a very good dribbler just not R9 level, I don’t know why that’s such a hard thing to get your head round.

 

[Sky1981]

You put Cristiano and Messi together as if Cristiano is as good.

And R9 would be a big deal regardless, Best was a big deal in an era that contained Muller as was Cruyff, I don’t get your argument, it again reduces to goals as if how we are entertained by the sport doesn’t play a big part in our emotions and rationale hence why a player like Best can be raved about in the same era as a Muller who is vastly outscoring him.

If he's so good. Where's the goals?

You're talking as if 700 goals arent entertainment?

 

[dumbo]

A reputation built on nostalgia.
He didn't improve the teams he played for.
Where are his goals?
He was Suarez but with a worse first touch.
He was an inconsistent dribbler.
A 2nd rate hack basically with a reputation buoyed by myth and romance.

There is being young and ignorant and having a skewed picture built from an over reliance on stats and YouTube, and then there is being complete and utter fecking weirdos - which is what a lot of you are.

 

[Malkovich]

The amount of terrible technical gestures I've seen Suarez make, you don't get from a player of Ronaldo's ilk.

 

[youngrell]

If he's so good. Where's the goals?

You're talking as if 700 goals arent entertainment?

They’ve both played around 400-500 more games than him, for a start. You’d expect them to have significantly more goals, wouldn’t you?

And when you factor in the injuries he sustained at under 24 years you can start to understand why he wasn’t able to maintain that level for as long as them.

Nobody is claiming that he had a better career then either Messi or C.Ronaldo, hell very few are even claiming he would have been better than Messi at all. But it’s not out of this world to speculate that he would have been close and probably above CR if he’d been injury free and able to continue on his trajectory without his knee exploding.

 

[youngrell]

So he's so much better than ronaldo who scored 800 goals?

Or the 90s defender was so much better than the current defender?

Why can't he score more if he's 8 out of 10 traits better than Ronaldo?

Why not tell me which attributes I got wrong?