Would Conte got the best out of this team?

VP89 said:
No it wouldn't. We would have missed the chance for a sustainable rebuild under a long term manager this summer.

Conte is a great manager for quick results but he is not the play for us.
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Well, we already had our fair share of rebuilds: LVG and especially Ole completed their rebuilds and look at where we are now. Honestly I'm sick of the "let's rebuild" theory. No manager can guarantee us anything. I don't trust our board that they can identify our "rebuild" hero.
At least with Conte we would of seen some fight in our players and some tactical organization. Also we could of brought him on for the remainder of the season and if results were good we could of kept him on, but no...we decided to give Ole another 3 weeks so we can make a fool of ourselves against Watford.
With the decision to bring Ralf, we destroyed any chance of winning anything this season + failed to qualify for CL but we earned another rebuild. God help us.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
Well, we already had our fair share of rebuilds: LVG and especially Ole completed their rebuilds and look at where we are now. Honestly I'm sick of the "let's rebuild" theory. No manager can guarantee us anything. I don't trust our board that they can identify our "rebuild" hero.
At least with Conte we would of seen some fight in our players and some tactical organization. Also we could of brought him on for the remainder of the season and if results were good we could of kept him on, but no...we decided to give Ole another 3 weeks so we can make a fool of ourselves against Watford.
With the decision to bring Ralf, we destroyed any chance of winning anything this season + failed to qualify for CL but we earned another rebuild. God help us.
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Sick and tired of the "we tried it with x so lets not bother".

We also tried the quick fix with Jose and it didn't work. Just get the right man in to build our squad back, thats all I want. ETH sounds like the right man over Conte.
 
There is no such thing as short time manager.
There are successful managers and not successful managers.

If ETH doesn't win trophies in 3 seasons, United will mostly fire him, it's not like they are gonna give him 5 seasons to win something.

People still thinking that top teams in modern era will give a "long term" manager 5 seasons to win something...so naive.
 
The answer to this question is a resounding yes. Conte is usually very very clear about what he wants to do and who he needs to accomplish it. Granted he would have made a new signing or two but he would put rockets in the behind of our rather casual players and get them firing again. Is anyone surprised at where Spurs are on the table? They had no business being there couple of months ago.
 
SAred said:
Would Antonio Conte been able to get the best out of our bunch or are they beyond repair?
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I am quite unsure about this.

On the one hand, I think one thing that Conte would have had more than Rangnick is lighting the fire inside players' hearts. As much as I love and respect Rangnick's down-to-earth, honest approach, I think there is something that the likes of Pep, Klopp, Tuchel and Conte have is in terms of lighting the fire inside the hearts of their players. These managers have the technical acumen aplenty, no doubt. They are also clear about the type of football they want to play. So too does Ralf Rangnick. But, what makes these managers stand a little above is that they speak with their hearts and I can imagine how that being a major element of how managers get the best out of their players.

On the other hand, I am not sure about the kind of longevity we could have expected from Conte. As much as I think he would have been able to drive these players more, I can't seem to go past the element of stability that would be missing with him around. And this is why I am not sure I would have wanted the "quick fix" of having Conte in.

Stictly speaking, though, I think Conte would have fired up the players more than Rangnick is doing at the moment.
 
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VP89 said:
Sick and tired of the "we tried it with x so lets not bother".

We also tried the quick fix with Jose and it didn't work. Just get the right man in to build our squad back, thats all I want. ETH sounds like the right man over Conte.
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First of all we have absolutely no guarantees that ETH will bring us where we should be, he is just another lottery ticket. We aren't even sure he will join us at this present moment.
Secondly, Conte is on another level than Mourinho at this stage, he is less toxic and the results and impact he had wherever he managed point out to the conclusion that there were bigger chances for him to make us good than ETH will.
I'm no Conte fan but what I care and want for Utd are results and title challenges at least.
 
Wolf1992 said:
There is no such thing as short time manager.
There are successful managers and not successful managers.

If ETH doesn't win trophies in 3 seasons, United will mostly fire him, it's not like they are gonna give him 5 seasons to win something.

People still thinking that top teams in modern era will give a "long term"manager 5 years to win something...so naive.
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Thank you!

All this talk of short term, long term manager is all crap to me. We know that Conte has a short fuse and that’s it. If United management gives him what he needs, they and Conte would be best of pals. United is not doing badly on the financial side so this shouldn’t pose any serious problems to us.

Tactically he is usually very spot on. We hired Mourinho at a time when he was past it so there’s a big difference.

ETH will get all the support I can possibly give but I will never pretend that we now have the answers to our many questions either short term or long term. I love his football style but the jury is still out whether he’d deliver in the premier league. Anyway we want to look at it, we missed a clear opportunity to bring in Conte.
 
Goodness me.
United still seem to be going round in ever increasing circles. And getting nowhere.
So we are rolling the dice again in the hope it will be lucky this time.

I have to confess I know next to nothing about ETH.
But one thing is certain. We need an elite manager.
When I look at what Conte has done to transform Tottenham, I can not help thinking... what might have been has United made him our manager.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
First of all we have absolutely no guarantees that ETH will bring us where we should be, he is just another lottery ticket. We aren't even sure he will join us at this present moment.
Secondly, Conte is on another level than Mourinho at this stage, he is less toxic and the results and impact he had wherever he managed point out to the conclusion that there were bigger chances for him to make us good than ETH will.
I'm no Conte fan but what I care and want for Utd are results and title challenges at least.
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ETH is unproven at top level but I would not call him another lottery ticket.

As for Conte he has a track record of also leaving very prematurely with a squad unsuitable for the next manager. We can't afford that. We just spent a lot of effort putting a structure in place that is live from Feb this year to avoid that. It makes no sense to hire Conte.
 
VP89 said:
ETH is unproven at top level but I would not call him another lottery ticket.

As for Conte he has a track record of also leaving very prematurely with a squad unsuitable for the next manager. We can't afford that. We just spent a lot of effort putting a structure in place that is live from Feb this year to avoid that. It makes no sense to hire Conte.
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Surely that boat has sailed, I am not talking about hiring him now.
I was talking about hiring him when he was free and Ole was still with us, ready to be sacked. We waited far too long and lost that chance. I strongly believe that Conte would of saved our season and bring some discipline into our chaotic squad. I mean if he managed to get the best out of Lukaku, he would of surely handled our sensible flowers just fine.
For next season, obviously, ETH is the best solution, I just find very disturbing and infuriating the state we are in now and if the present sacrifice of results and image of our club is worth it on the long run.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
Surely that boat has sailed, I am not talking about hiring him now.
I was talking about hiring him when he was free and Ole was still with us, ready to be sacked. We waited far too long and lost that chance. I strongly believe that Conte would of saved our season and bring some discipline into our chaotic squad. I mean if he managed to get the best out of Lukaku, he would of surely handled our sensible flowers just fine.
For next season, obviously, ETH is the best solution, I just find very disturbing and infuriating the state we are in now and if the present sacrifice of results and image of our club is worth it on the long run.
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Im talking about the same stage. Conte was never the play then. We needed a full long term rebuild and hes not the man for that.
 
I wanted Conte but i think this thread is a bit misdirected. We knew an interim was unlikely to turn it around and we've seen the players had no intention of getting behind Rangnick.

Conte would have done better but the question is ignoring the fact we made the choice of longer term rebuild over Conte's methods.

Next year might be rough as we try to transition. I hope our fans have the patience to not just lament that we didn't get Conte.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
Well, we already had our fair share of rebuilds: LVG and especially Ole completed their rebuilds and look at where we are now. Honestly I'm sick of the "let's rebuild" theory. No manager can guarantee us anything. I don't trust our board that they can identify our "rebuild" hero.
At least with Conte we would of seen some fight in our players and some tactical organization. Also we could of brought him on for the remainder of the season and if results were good we could of kept him on, but no...we decided to give Ole another 3 weeks so we can make a fool of ourselves against Watford.
With the decision to bring Ralf, we destroyed any chance of winning anything this season + failed to qualify for CL but we earned another rebuild. God help us.
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What leads you to believe our players are capable of fight and tactical organization? Our players have literally down tools for at least 3 managers - Jose/Ole/Ralf. Our players would simply not listen to Conte or not fulfil his tactics and Conte would get the hump and leave.

Conte demands high standards/workrate and would have been way too aggressive for our players. Id have loved to see Conte instil his passion into our players - but we are a team of wasters who dont want to work one little bit.

There's been all sorts of rumours that the players think Ralf is working them too hard. Have you seen us play? We are atrocious. Under these players - it doesnt matter who our manager is. We are rotten to the core. Our club captain looks like he's sunday league and our record signing is leaving on a free after jogging around laughing at us being paid a fortune for the last 5 years.

Conte is turned it around at Spurs, he's got genuine class in Son and Kane and made 2 good signings got everyone working and they're a much better team for it. He couldnt do that with us - our players arent capable enough
 
Smores said:
I wanted Conte but i think this thread is a bit misdirected. We knew an interim was unlikely to turn it around and we've seen the players had no intention of getting behind Rangnick.

Conte would have done better but the question is ignoring the fact we made the choice of longer term rebuild over Conte's methods.

Next year might be rough as we try to transition. I hope our fans have the patience to not just lament that we didn't get Conte.
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We've been in transition since 2012. Patience is tiring
 
VP89 said:
No it wouldn't. We would have missed the chance for a sustainable rebuild under a long term manager this summer.

Conte is a great manager for quick results but he is not the play for us.
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Getting quick results seems to be a stick used to beat certain managers with these days. It's laughable that a club in our position can happily take that outlook and then hire a more unproven manager who is more likely to completely fail.

Besides, the clubs that Conte has left have never been left in a bad position. Generally their squad needs investment and they won't spend, so he leaves, and the team is already on a naturally downward trajectory because of this. Or, like at Inter, they simply want to sell top players. Even so, they weren't left in too bad a position after being in the wilderness the best part of the last 15 years or so.
 
pocco said:
Getting quick results seems to be a stick used to beat certain managers with these days. It's laughable that a club in our position can happily take that outlook and then hire a more unproven manager who is more likely to completely fail.

Besides, the clubs that Conte has left have never been left in a bad position. Generally their squad needs investment and they won't spend, so he leaves, and the team is already on a naturally downward trajectory because of this. Or, like at Inter, they simply want to sell top players. Even so, they weren't left in too bad a position after being in the wilderness the best part of the last 15 years or so.
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It's not a stick to beat him with.

Im saying we arent after an immediate fix for a couple seasons before changing philosophy all over again.
 
This team of slackers needs a rocket up it's arse - Conte would have been the man to do it.

Sadly that ship has sailed........
 
Conte would play 5-3-2 with this team and would probably have got better results than Rangnick or Ole have gotten this season. I still think if we weren't obsessed with this 'progressive football' idea, we could have finished 3rd this season with the same squad. We're just too proud to play a style that suits us i.e. counter-attack

Regardless, I don't think Conte is the right choice long-term, so whether he would or would not have done marginally better this season is not really the point
 
Craig Ward said:
What leads you to believe our players are capable of fight and tactical organization? Our players have literally down tools for at least 3 managers - Jose/Ole/Ralf. Our players would simply not listen to Conte or not fulfil his tactics and Conte would get the hump and leave.

Conte demands high standards/workrate and would have been way too aggressive for our players. Id have loved to see Conte instil his passion into our players - but we are a team of wasters who dont want to work one little bit.

There's been all sorts of rumours that the players think Ralf is working them too hard. Have you seen us play? We are atrocious. Under these players - it doesnt matter who our manager is. We are rotten to the core. Our club captain looks like he's sunday league and our record signing is leaving on a free after jogging around laughing at us being paid a fortune for the last 5 years.

Conte is turned it around at Spurs, he's got genuine class in Son and Kane and made 2 good signings got everyone working and they're a much better team for it. He couldnt do that with us - our players arent capable enough
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I do not want to defend our players although it may look that way, but I think that they could follow a manager with a powerful personality. Not all players are the same and there is no method that works for everyone. I really think Conte would have found a solution at least for some of them. For the lazy ones to get them to work, for the inept ones (eg. Maguire) to develop them tactically.

Ralf does not have the personality, nor the name nor the trophy cabinet to be respected, similar to Ole, but at least Ole had a name as a player. Also being so distant to top football like Ralf was, I don't think he ever had what it takes to manage a club like Man Utd. He never had top earners, stars or wannabe stars under him.

As for Conte at Spurs, their players thrown Poch and Mourinho under the bus just like our players did with Ole, Mourinho and now Ralf, so really there is no much difference. If Conte got the best out of Lukaku, Darmian, Young or Sanchez and won the Serie A with them, surely he can handle Rashford and co.
 
Conte would have done a better job with what we have, although I very much doubt he would have brought in any silverware before inevitably becoming frustrated and quitting in a year or two's time. We would probably have been in a worse position by the end of it.
 
No. Conte's demands would have been ignored by the egos in the team. Going home from training after 5pm in the dark...? Our lot? :lol:

Then the Board would've refused to back him in the market in January, which would've made the situation toxic and the players look at him as a man without support from above.

It would've all ended in tears. Until the player power at United is eradicated this is our future.
 
Real Name said:
I know what is a yes man but how did you conclude Glazers want a yes man?
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It seems obvious to me. The club has previously ignored requests from managers for outgoing and incoming transfers, and has also signed players without input from managers. Di Maria and Ronaldo two obvious ones. Within the management group they've also hired people into positions whose role it now seems isn't obvious, like Fletcher. All this was done under the nose of sitting managers. That type of behaviour smacks of a management culture where the senior people (Glazers et. Chairman) decide what's best, not the so called experts that have been hired into senior positions. Its why we now have former managers stating United isn't a football club but is a commercial club, or former managers who left after 'spitting out their dummies' when they weren't backed in the transfer market.

The signs are there that there is a toxic management culture because the lines of authority and accountability have been broken, at least it appears that way from the outside. I worked at a company like that before and I was told by someone that I needed to accept what was being said by the CEO because he was the owner and the company was his toy train set, even though there were questionable decisions. In that case the CEO also only wanted yes men, and incidentally he had also inherited the company from his father, similar to the Glazers.
 
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Green_Red said:
It seems obvious to me. The club has previously ignored requests from managers for outgoing and incoming transfers, and has also signed players without input from managers. Di Maria and Ronaldo two obvious ones. Within the management group they've also hired people into positions whose role it now seems isn't obvious, like Fletcher. All this was done under the nose of sitting managers. That type of behaviour smacks of a management culture where the senior people (Glazers et. Chairman) decide what's best, not the so called experts that have been hired into senior positions. Its why we now have former managers stating United isn't a football club but is a commercial club, or former managers who left after 'spitting out their dummies' when they weren't backed in the transfer market.
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Of course Van Gaal would now say he didnt want Di Maria and dont know whats the story with Ronaldo but if a story is Ole didnt want him then its even worse for him. Even if all you say its true it doesnt mean they go for a yes man but behind manager's backs. Also all of the managers were backed. That doesnt mean structure was right and in place cause it wasnt. Af for Fletcher, the favorite aim at the moment (I'm speaking in general not regarding your post) United is not the only club in which some position isnt obvious, that doesnt mean its made up or something.
 
frostbite said:
I think that this is another misconception. All managers today are very short term. Especially if they don't win trophies with top teams. See Poch at PSG, Ancelotti, managers at Bayern, Barca, etc. There are very few managers who stay more than 3 years. If Ten Hag does not win anything for 2 years, he will also be sacked.
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But it's because the clubs sack them. In Conte's case, it appears that he has very little patience, you know ?
 
He was going to win us the title, wasn't he? At least that's what 80% of those who wanted him at United were saying. Not that cut and dry.

Let's be real, he did Spurs, but his results at streaky at best. He benefited massively from United and Arsenal being absolute dross this season. For every convincing win against Newcastle and City, he got outplayed at home to Soton and lost to United and Boro.

I don't see him doing any different at United, Maybe he would have gotten us Top4 this year and maybe an FA Cup the next year, but as long as Pep and Klopp are in the league, there is no way he is challenging anyone as he is a tier below them.
 
Caesar2290 said:
He was going to win us the title, wasn't he? At least that's what 80% of those who wanted him at United were saying. Not that cut and dry.

Let's be real, he did Spurs, but his results at streaky at best. He benefited massively from United and Arsenal being absolute dross this season. For every convincing win against Newcastle and City, he got outplayed at home to Soton and lost to United and Boro.

I don't see him doing any different at United, Maybe he would have gotten us Top4 this year and maybe an FA Cup the next year, but as long as Pep and Klopp are in the league, there is no way he is challenging anyone as he is a tier below them.
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No mate he already won the league with klopp and pep in this same league. So I can't be sure what you wanted from Conte. He is only one who even can compare to pep in league wins. 5 league titles in seven years of top league level management is top top tier.
 
Rajiztar said:
No mate he already won the league with klopp and pep in this same league. So I can't be sure what you wanted from Conte. He is only one who even can compare to pep in league wins. 5 league titles in seven years of top league level management is top top tier.
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What place did he finish that year? 4th

Considering most of his titles are in the Italian league with Juve, I wouldn't class him as top tier. Even Sarri won a Scudetto with Juve ahead of Conte.

All of Conte's titles literally benefited from not having strong opposition. His Inter title coincided with Juve's dominance being destroyed by Pirlo. His Chelsea title was at a time when there was no clear big dog winner in the league a la Pep or SAF. His Juve wins in the early days also coincided with AC Milan and Inter both imploding at the same time.

Make no mistake, he is a good manager, but top tier he is not. Top tier managers are good both domestically and CL, something Conte isn't exactly good at. He is more of a checkbook manager than Pep. Unless you get 100% of what he wants, he does a Jose. Thank God our board stayed out of that mess. Last thing we need is another rebuild post Conte
 
I see Conte as Sauron, gets shit done but eventually destroying everything around him, hopefully ETH is our Gandalf
 
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