Woodward (old thread)

Should Studward remain as CE of Manchester United?

  • No - he should be sacked also.

    Votes: 40 22.6%

  • Yes - he should stay.

    Votes: 137 77.4%
  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
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I just don't see this squad lasting without reinforcements. Perhaps the quality isn't such an issue if they all buy into LVG's system and methods which if you look at pre-season, they have...

...but at some point next season, we'll be without Rafael, Evans, Smalling and Jones (entirely likely knowing them, that'll it could be all at once) and we'll have a ridiculous defensive crisis on our hands.

If the boss is fully committed to playing Blackett, Keane and whoever else from the reserves/youth squad as a major part of our plans next year then I'm intrigued but also extremely worried. Sink or swim doesn't have favourable odds.

Woodward will get absolutely no end of stick from 'fans' as well, could put his position under pressure if it's made to look like we've failed in the transfer window again like last year. It could very well be true that we were never in for Vidal but that's not really how it'll be remembered if we don't get him.
 
matherto said:
I just don't see this squad lasting without reinforcements. Perhaps the quality isn't such an issue if they all buy into LVG's system and methods which if you look at pre-season, they have...

...but at some point next season, we'll be without Rafael, Evans, Smalling and Jones (entirely likely knowing them, that'll it could be all at once) and we'll have a ridiculous defensive crisis on our hands.

If the boss is fully committed to playing Blackett, Keane and whoever else from the reserves/youth squad as a major part of our plans next year then I'm intrigued but also extremely worried. Sink or swim doesn't have favourable odds.

Woodward will get absolutely no end of stick from 'fans' as well, could put his position under pressure if it's made to look like we've failed in the transfer window again like last year. It could very well be true that we were never in for Vidal but that's not really how it'll be remembered if we don't get him.
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Yes because the Glazers care what the fans think...

If Louis van Gaal wants players I am sure Woodward will try to sign them, if he fails for valid reasons then it is what it is. Louis has talked about only signing to improve the selection and that probably means the likes of Hummels and Vidal, those types of players were not easy for David Gill to sign either.
 
If he leaves Van Gaal the unsolved conoundrum of the shambles that is our midfield plus a decimated defence, he can feck off with all his "Watch this space" one-liners.
 
were his ultra confident words based on presuming the Vidal deal was all sorted? Only to see this knee situation massively complicate it? Surely not.

If he had to say anything, it only had to be "we're working hard on possible deals, but it's hard to bring the right players in", type soundbites.

Unless it had to be super confident for stock market/share type situations.
 
Kayo said:
Think we are done in the market bar maybe one versatile defender.
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I tend to agree.
Especially if even half of the players rumoured to be going do leave
Hernandez, Zaha, Nani, young, fellaini cleverly, anderson, fletcher
Then negotiating those deals will surely take up a chunk of time... As will loans for young prospects who lvg decides are not ready for the first team but need games.

Perhaps there will be some deadline day transfer out of the blue but personally I hope he buys anybody in the next week so they are available for the first game then concentrate on sales and loans
 
If we're done in the market, and with Carrick not available, we'll be starting next season with arguably a weaker team than we ended the last. That would be almost unbelievable.
 
http://talkofthedevils.com/press-red-players-given-moyes-february/

When things go wrong, as was the case with David, how is your relationship affected being that you do have to ask some very difficult questions?

Never an issue really. We all protected him after the transfer window fiasco and criticised Woodward instead because we wanted to give Moyes the benefit of the doubt.

Interview with Ogden
 
Boycott said:
http://talkofthedevils.com/press-red-players-given-moyes-february/

When things go wrong, as was the case with David, how is your relationship affected being that you do have to ask some very difficult questions?

Never an issue really. We all protected him after the transfer window fiasco and criticised Woodward instead because we wanted to give Moyes the benefit of the doubt.

Interview with Ogden
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Thanks for posting. At the time some thought the press was going easy on Moyes because he was a British manager. Sounded like a kooky theory to me at the time-maybe it wasn't so crazy a theory.
 
KeninDC said:
Thanks for posting. At the time some thought the press was going easy on Moyes because he was a British manager. Sounded like a kooky theory to me at the time-maybe it wasn't so crazy a theory.
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It didn't take a rocket scientist to know the journos were taking it far too easy on him.

I was of the same opinion as that player. February was when I gave up on him and wanted him out.
 
Red Comet said:
We didn't build the reputation that we have today by finishing in top 4 consistently. We have our global status because we consistently challenge to be the champions. Our club has got the most titles ever since Premier League was conceptualised. Sure, we attracted a lot of bandwagon fans, but that is what gave us our global marketing power.

Liverpool still had some sort of status today because of their history of titles before EPL. But if you look at the younger, football watching fans around the world today, more fans would rather grab a Chelsea shirt than a Liverpool shirt. The only ones that happen to support Liverpool tend to be those whose family are Liverpool supporters.

If we do not continue to challenge for titles, we will be as irrelevant as Liverpool going forward.
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We'll never be irrelevant,

United historically have always a much bigger support worldwide. It all goes back to the 50s when people from all over the UK used to travel to watch the Busby Babes.

We were well supported aswell from 1969 to 1993 and we won or did very little.

For arguments sake say next season we were relegated and City/Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool won the treble and finished the season unbeaten. The biggest story would be United getting relegated. Everything we do is headline news. It will take 30 years (probably more) for that to stop.
 
Matador8 said:
Third parties get involved with transfers all the time due to the complexity of modern day football contracts. He deserves all the credit as he's the CEO of the club.
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Agreed, especially in this case, the transfer REQUIRED an intermediary. Woodward proved his ability to adapt to the situation and pull off a delicate move.
 
MancunianAngels said:
We'll never be irrelevant,

United historically have always a much bigger support worldwide. It all goes back to the 50s when people from all over the UK used to travel to watch the Busby Babes.

We were well supported aswell from 1969 to 1993 and we won or did very little.

For arguments sake say next season we were relegated and City/Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool won the treble and finished the season unbeaten. The biggest story would be United getting relegated. Everything we do is headline news. It will take 30 years (probably more) for that to stop.
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Adidas don't agree. They negotiated an almost 50% reduction in their annual fee if we fail to qualify for the Champions League. Other commercial sponsors and 'partners' will feel the same way. They want to be associated with the glamour of success.
 
Boycott said:
http://talkofthedevils.com/press-red-players-given-moyes-february/

When things go wrong, as was the case with David, how is your relationship affected being that you do have to ask some very difficult questions?

Never an issue really. We all protected him after the transfer window fiasco and criticised Woodward instead because we wanted to give Moyes the benefit of the doubt.

Interview with Ogden
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Just as I said at the time and many times since. Moyes fecked up last summer with his dithering and inability to spot any talent that would enhance United.

With that in mind, Woodward has nailed the Mata transfer as well as the Shaw and Herrera deal and is currently waiting on Van Gaal to make his mind up before he gets his cheque book out and brings us a few more.

As Ogden said in that interview, United are top 4 now and it'll take a few signings before you see them as title challengers. It's a good job those transfers are on their way.
 
Will Absolute said:
I did say 'football matters'. There's a difference between 'selling the brand' and buying footballers. I'm sure Woody is well qualified to run the business, but he's poorly qualified to decide on a list of transfer targets. Who's he going to consult? - apart from the next manager, who, as I said, may himself be in a poor position to make such a decision.

It's not an issue with a long-term manager, but Fergies and Wengers are the exceptions, and managerial flux is more common.

The problem is acute for us because we need to recruit this summer and we need to get it right. We can only hope for the best.
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Van Gaal is likely to have seen most of the players on our list up close and personal at the WC. I'm sure he rapidly whittled them down and added a few of his own. you would have to believe (well apparently not you personally, but a more general "you" might believe) that there has been plenty of sounding out going on while LvG assesses the squad. When he makes decisions we should be well placed to pull the trigger. Then it becomes a question of whether the gun will fire. Gill's first foray into the transfer market was buying Rooney. Can't see any reason why Woodward wouldn't do just as well - right now he has a lot more experience than Gill had at that point. In any case, blathering on about potential doom scenarios seems a little pointless until we have more information. (Although I suppose you get the satisfaction of saying "told you so" if things go badly.)

On another matter, I loved your characterization of "distant, semi-detached owners who know next to nothing about their core business". Do you actually believe it or did you just get caught up in rhetoric? There aren't too many owners of $2.5 billion businesses who know "next to nothing about the core business", especially after 9 years of ownership. You seem to ascribe an unlikely level of stupidity to all the players in the game - the Glazers, Woodward and van Gaal - none of whom really has done much to deserve it.
 
ravelston said:
On another matter, I loved your characterization of "distant, semi-detached owners who know next to nothing about their core business". Do you actually believe it or did you just get caught up in rhetoric? There aren't too many owners of $2.5 billion businesses who know "next to nothing about the core business", especially after 9 years of ownership. You seem to ascribe an unlikely level of stupidity to all the players in the game - the Glazers, Woodward and van Gaal - none of whom really has done much to deserve it.
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Unfortunately too many caf members actually believe that claptrap. It's like they somehow got to where they are through sheer luck. Whilst keyboard warriors at home who dabble in Football Manager somehow knows it all about running a multi billion dollar football team.
 
Pexbo said:
Just as I said at the time and many times since. Moyes fecked up last summer with his dithering and inability to spot any talent that would enhance United.

With that in mind, Woodward has nailed the Mata transfer as well as the Shaw and Herrera deal and is currently waiting on Van Gaal to make his mind up before he gets his cheque book out and brings us a few more.

As Ogden said in that interview, United are top 4 now and it'll take a few signings before you see them as title challengers. It's a good job those transfers are on their way.
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You can't really criticize Moyes for not identifying talent then praise Woodward for getting Mata, Shaw, Herrera in.
LvG may push through some decent signings before the window closes but so far it looks we're suffering the same fate of new managers needing time to assess squads and transfers.
 
We have signed Shaw & Herrera, I can see LVG going for another defender if the right one becomes available, I think the "right one" will NOT be Hummels or over €20m either, Vermaelen makes sense if Barcelone don't get him. I'd liked us to have signed Vidal, but players like Cavani and ADM aren't needed, especially with the player role classification from LVG, we will have a different set of players.
 
Smores said:
You can't really criticize Moyes for not identifying talent then praise Woodward for getting Mata, Shaw, Herrera in.
LvG may push through some decent signings before the window closes but so far it looks we're suffering the same fate of new managers needing time to assess squads and transfers.
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Herrera was scouted before Moyes. He played us in the Europa and impressed.
Mata didn't need scouting, and if you believe rumours, he wasn't Moyes' choice. Fellaini was.
Shaw didn't really take much scouting either really.
 
Pexbo said:
Just as I said at the time and many times since. Moyes fecked up last summer with his dithering and inability to spot any talent that would enhance United.

With that in mind, Woodward has nailed the Mata transfer as well as the Shaw and Herrera deal and is currently waiting on Van Gaal to make his mind up before he gets his cheque book out and brings us a few more.

As Ogden said in that interview, United are top 4 now and it'll take a few signings before you see them as title challengers. It's a good job those transfers are on their way.
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That's not what Ogden says. He says that they wanted to give Moyes the benefit of doubt, not that they covered up for his mistakes and made it look like it was someone else's fault.
 
If Woodward doesn't sign at least a CB and CM before the window closes he's really going to get some stick.

Revenue generation aside, his record in the transfer market will be:

- Signing Fellaini for at least double the price he should have paid
- Breaking our transfer record for Mata (a player who had been completely marginalised at Chelsea, still glad we signed him mind)
- Signing Herrera a year after we intended signing him
- Signing a 19 year old left back for £28 million (yes that is 28 million UK pounds, for a 19 year old)

In fact, regardless of whether he fills our much needed CB and CM vacancies, the real acid test for Woodward could be his ability to get decent fees for the likes of Nani, Anderson and probably Fellaini over the coming weeks.

I'm prepared to give the man the benefit of the doubt but come Sept 1st, Ed's reputation could be in tatters.
 
Rory 7 said:
If Woodward doesn't sign at least a CB and CM before the window closes he's really going to get some stick.

Revenue generation aside, his record in the transfer market will be:

- Signing Fellaini for at least double the price he should have paid
- Breaking our transfer record for Mata (a player who had been completely marginalised at Chelsea, still glad we signed him mind)
- Signing Herrera a year after we intended signing him
- Signing a 19 year old left back for £28 million (yes that is 28 million UK pounds, for a 19 year old)

In fact, regardless of whether he fills our much needed CB and CM vacancies, the real acid test for Woodward could be his ability to get decent fees for the likes of Nani, Anderson and probably Fellaini over the coming weeks.

I'm prepared to give the man the benefit of the doubt but come Sept 1st, Ed's reputation could be in tatters.
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The Hererra signing was also for a fixed price. Obviously some legal complexities - for which he will have sought expert legal advice after making such a balls of things the first time - but zero credit for woody in terms of convincing another club to sell us a decent player.

Which is exactly what he seems to be struggling with at the moment. Despite being awash with cash.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The Hererra signing was also for a fixed price. Obviously some legal complexities - for which he will have sought expert legal advice after making such a balls of things the first time - but zero credit for woody in terms of convincing another club to sell us a decent player.

Which is exactly what he seems to be struggling with at the moment. Despite being awash with cash.
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I wonder just how awash is he? I'm quite cynical about our 'war chest'. I think that whole concept of us 'spending big this summer', 'overhauling the squad' etc. was really just something put forward by Moyes' apologists in the media.
 
Rory 7 said:
I wonder just how awash is he? I'm quite cynical about our 'war chest'. I think that whole concept of us 'spending big this summer', 'overhauling the squad' etc. was really just something put forward by Moyes' apologists in the media.
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Well he pretty much stoked up that fire himself. If he fails to deliver he has only himself to blame.

Anyway fwiw our finances are fairly transparent these days and there's no obvious reason why he can't spend big money.
 
bishblaize said:
Well he pretty much stoked up that fire himself. If he fails to deliver he has only himself to blame.

Anyway fwiw our finances are fairly transparent these days and there's no obvious reason why he can't spend big money.
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Our finances are transparent yes, but are the club's 'intentions' clear? I mean where did the figures of £150/£200m to be spent this summer come from in the press reports out there since the last window closed? Paper talk? Probably. Spin from Moyes' camp? Possibly. Or actual leak from the club? I hope not. That would have been a case of Ed really shooting himself in the foot.
 
Rory 7 said:
Our finances are transparent yes, but are the club's 'intentions' clear? I mean where did the figures of £150/£200m to be spent this summer come from in the press reports out there since the last window closed? Paper talk? Probably. Spin from Moyes' camp? Possibly. Or actual leak from the club? I hope not. That would have been a case of Ed really shooting himself in the foot.
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I take it you haven't seen Ed's interview?
 
Rory 7 said:
To create the narrative that Moyes inherited a sub-standard squad and thereby secure investment in players from the clubs' owners.
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That narrative is completely independent of whether or not we really do have a lot of money to spend this summer.

With the accounts in the public domain and Woody giving it Billy Big Bollocks to anyone who will listen, I think it's abundantly clear that there is money to spend.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That narrative is completely independent of whether or not we really do have a lot of money to spend this summer.

With the accounts in the public domain and Woody giving it Billy Big Bollocks to anyone who will listen, I think it's abundantly clear that there is money to spend.
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For sure. Im just questioning how much. And of course Ed's ability to 'seal the deal'.
 
He's been banging that drum ever since. I don't buy the idea that he was doing it to defend Moyes' record. Seems more like general tub-thumping to remind everyone what a massive club United is and how we can afford to sign the best players around if we want. If he's defending anyone, it's the Glazers.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's been banging that drum ever since. I don't buy the idea that he was doing it to defend Moyes' record. Seems more like general tub-thumping to remind everyone what a massive club United is and how we can afford to sign the best players around if we want. If he's defending anyone, it's the Glazers.
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I agree. But don't you think many people, especially media commentators, used this kind of stuff to defend Moyes.
i.e. 'look a the squad he was left with'.
I never bought that argument. He inherited the champions.

In Ed's defence, if he buys two player in the window and ships out 3 or 4. It will be unprecedented at United - given the departures that have happened already.
 
If he wasnt capable, i'm betting he wouldnt still be a the top of the job. That said, he and the board along with van Gaal shud shape up and buy.
 
Loving the way people talk of Woodward as if they know him personally or indeed that you know his motives and priority! !

You guys haven't a fu*king clue what you are talking about . .
 
Rory 7 said:
I agree. But don't you think many people, especially media commentators, used this kind of stuff to defend Moyes.
i.e. 'look a the squad he was left with'.
I never bought that argument. He inherited the champions.

In Ed's defence, if he buys two player in the window and ships out 3 or 4. It will be unprecedented at United - given the departures that have happened already.
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I used that argument myself. The squad he was left with had issues. Of course that's a debate for another thread/different era!

Although it is kind of relevant to this thread as it's certainly true that the scale of ins/outs required to get us competing against the best around is unprecedented. Shaw, Herrera and Mata are all steps in the right direction but I think everyone on here would agree we need at least two more really good players, along with attempting to ship out a bunch of well-paid squad members. An unprecedented but necessary overhaul. Hence there's substance to the claims that Moyes faced a major rebuild.
 
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