Woodward (old thread)

[Amir]

When the season started i think people were just looking for a scapegoat given the shambles of the the summer transfers and given that SAFs words of "support the new manager" ringing in peoples ears the focus was put onto Woodward. I also believe the media played its part - you would always hear "Woodward was inexperienced in working out the deals"... Yes he deals with multi-million pound deals week in week out but can't manage to work out how to meet a players buy out clause!

Well, I think part of the issue is due to the leaks and the fact there's more than a hint Woodward is responsible for that. There's also the wierd handling of insisting on a Fellaini/Baines double bid and some things which are just urban legend like not signing Coentrao because we couldn't send a fax on time.

But yeah, I think most was to do with Moyes. Struggling to find targets beyond a couple of obvious ones, because he didn't feel he knew them well enough. I think I also read a couple of days ago that he said he really didn't want Fellaini to be his first signing for us, which is a bit of a hint as to why we didn't use his release clause. Moyes wanted to do another deal before he gets him...

 

[ottosec]

It looks like all the press briefings came from Moyes. Just read the piece from Hunter on ESPN. He says he was talking directly to Moyes.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/transfer-talk/79/post/1908047/hunter-herrera-the-right-man-for-united

Probably the other were briefed by Moyes too. That would explain how they have no idea of who are our targets at this time. Basically it looks like they only know about Shaw.

 

[Roboc7]

The way this deal has been does is a positive sign and along with the mata deal offers a bit more optimism that Woodward will be able to close a few deals this summer, hopefully 1 or 2 are pretty much already done and are just being held up by the World Cup.

I think the failures of last summer were a joint effort between moyes and Woodward but I think lvg will help Woodward going forward now, he is more decisive and will not be intimidated like moyes was. Moyes was completed unprepared in terms of his targets and wasn't prepared to listen to the advice of the existing scouts and he also had an idea in his head about his first signing being a marquee name rather than just getting on with improving the squad. Woodward clearly made mistakes as well but the last minute panic was probably caused by moyes coming to the realisation that he needed reinforcements and the marquee signing wasn't going to happen.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

ravi2 said: ↑
Lets keep it real, most of the credit belongs to LVG for advising Ed to keep his mouth shut during negotiations.



It was reported that Woodward was advised to keep a low profile during the Mata transfer.
It was felt that Chelsea would try to insert Rooney as part of the negotiations and Woodward was told to keep far away from it.

I think he is great at signing sponsorship deals but signing players is a different matter entirely.
Thank goodness LVG is here to hold his hand or else we would have Cesc, Kroos and Mueller trailing us along all summer till they got those bumper contracts that they want.

Reports on Kroos and Co. have entirely come out from media. The club hasnt given slightest of indication that we were after them. It is ridiculous to pretend to be an ITK on what has been going behind-the-scenes. Was LVG also playing nanny when Mata was signed?

 

[Adnan]

I really believe Woodward is going to deliver big time this window.

 

[KM]

He has learnt his lesson of keeping his mouth shut and just signing the player without briefing any of the reporters. Good to see us doing business before the pre-season starts.

 

[Jerch]

As i said in Herrera thread i think we had some sort of agreement for Herrera.

It was strange to have three amigos and then say they didn't work for us. Most probably we send them to activate buyout clause and we have been told that we can buy him this season if we leave him at Bilbao for one season.

If we hadn't have agreement this tranfers would not be as easy as it is. And it's good to respect the clubs like Bilbao in football because they are really special. Just what football lack with all sugar daddy clubs roaring around.

 

[kps88]

As i said in Herrera thread i think we had some sort of agreement for Herrera.

It was strange to have three amigos and then say they didn't work for us. Most probably we send them to activate buyout clause and we have been told that we can buy him this season if we leave him at Bilbao for one season.

That makes no sense since if we wanted to activate the buyout clause last season, they could not have stopped us. This just sounds like us being willing to spend more this time around and meet his release clause straight away. Either it's because LVG values him higher than Moyes or Woody has realised haggling won't work.

 

[Jerch]

That makes no sense since if we wanted to activate the buyout clause last season, they could not have stopped us. This just sounds like us being willing to spend more this time around and meet his release clause straight away. Either it's because LVG values him higher than Moyes or Woody has realised haggling won't work.

You forgot that if Bilbao wanted they could compicated the deal with taxes. And they don't have to complicate the deal for a long time since it was just 12 hours remaining. Buyout clauses are not as simple as some thinks.

 

[Globule]

That makes no sense since if we wanted to activate the buyout clause last season, they could not have stopped us. This just sounds like us being willing to spend more this time around and meet his release clause straight away. Either it's because LVG values him higher than Moyes or Woody has realised haggling won't work.

Or simply because the circumstances last summer were completely different to this year. I daresay the past 12 months have contributed to our determination to spend spend spend.

 

[Drummer]

Or simply because the circumstances last summer were completely different to this year. I daresay the past 12 months have contributed to our determination to spend spend spend.

Agreed....

It's hilarious to the point of just being sad that people have such a positive feeling towards Woodward when he has failed as a player negotiator thus far....

Last summer his job was to get in top targets and he failed on all accounts... Fellani was bought to save his blushes from looking like he couldn't sign anybody and moyes got the blame!!

The mata signing happened because Chelsea wanted to sell, the player desperately wanted to move and Woodward needed a signing to look like he wasn't the complete disaster he was last summer....

 

[Globule]

Agreed....

It's hilarious to the point of just being sad that people have such a positive feeling towards Woodward when he has failed as a player negotiator thus far....

Last summer his job was to get in top targets and he failed on all accounts... Fellani was bought to save his blushes from looking like he couldn't sign anybody and moyes got the blame!!

The mata signing happened because Chelsea wanted to sell, the player desperately wanted to move and Woodward needed a signing to look like he wasn't the complete disaster he was last summer....

I wasn't actually criticising Woodward. I think he's doing a decent job since last summer's disappointing window, which, it's worth noting, was his first couple of months in the job. If we were to have a similar window this summer, I'd be worried, but it looks as though he's determined to learn from past mistakes.

 

[Drummer]

I wasn't actually criticising Woodward. I think he's doing a decent job since last summer's disappointing window, which, it's worth noting, was his first couple of months in the job. If we were to have a similar window this summer, I'd be worried, but it looks as though he's determined to learn from past mistakes.

I'm not sure how you can make the statement that he is "determined to learn from his past mistakes". One would presume it would be the case, but there is literally nothing conclusive to back up that statement.

 

[Adebesi]

Of course he is. What kind of a CEO has no interest in learning from his mistakes? Nobody that apathetic would make it to such lofty professional heights.

 

[Globule]

I'm not sure how you can make the statement that he is "determined to learn from his past mistakes". One would presume it would be the case, but there is literally nothing conclusive to back up that statement.

I'm only going by the Herrera and Shaw transfers, which are only speculative at the minute. If we pull them off, both transfers would be examples of us not dilly-dallying around trying to nab a bargain, and instead just flexing our muscle to get the deal done. But, like I say, nothing has been agreed yet, which is why I added the disclaimer that it only appears that he's determined to learn from mistakes.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Agreed....

It's hilarious to the point of just being sad that people have such a positive feeling towards Woodward when he has failed as a player negotiator thus far....

Last summer his job was to get in top targets and he failed on all accounts... Fellani was bought to save his blushes from looking like he couldn't sign anybody and moyes got the blame!!

The mata signing happened because Chelsea wanted to sell, the player desperately wanted to move and Woodward needed a signing to look like he wasn't the complete disaster he was last summer....

Moyes was rightfully the man to blame for the summer debacle.

 

[Kag]

Reports on Kroos and Co. have entirely come out from media. The club hasnt given slightest of indication that we were after them. It is ridiculous to pretend to be an ITK on what has been going behind-the-scenes. Was LVG also playing nanny when Mata was signed?

What? Of course it came out of the club. It was coming directly from Woodward and other sources within the club. Moyes essentially told us who he was after through his mouthpiece from the Times, Jonothan Northcroft, in his damning article about us when Moyes was sacked. Moyes certainly wanted the likes of Shaw, Kroos and Carvalho at the club.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

What? Of course it came out of the club. It was coming directly from Woodward and other sources within the club. Moyes essentially told us who he was after through his mouthpiece from the Times, Jonothan Northcroft, in his damning article about us when Moyes was sacked. Moyes certainly wanted the likes of Shaw, Kroos and Carvalho at the club.

I am referring to this transfer window. There is no doubt Woodward fcked up last summer.

Edit: As was the post I quoted.

 

[Plugsy]

Moyes was rightfully the man to blame for the summer debacle.

He was, on Graham Hunter's blog on the ESPN page he mentions the Herrera deal last summer and said that Moyes was uncomfortable with signing anyone he hadn't personally scouted so his preference was to leave him at Bilbao for 12 months and sign him next (this) summer. It shows that regardless of the groundwork laid by the previous administration as far as targets and suggestions went, Moyes wasn't interested at all in any of them and was never going to be.

It's a similar situation with Thiago who we later discovered Moyes nixed or who was that other guy set to join when Moyes turned up and pulled the plug?

I feel sorry for Woodward in hindsight. What should have been a summer of tying up loose ends and getting the players for whom the groundwork had been laid, it instead had to start from scratch with a manager who seemingly only wanted players was overly familiar with e.g Baines and Fellaini. The whole Fabregas thing just seemed like a last minute "what about him?" panic.

 

[Kag]

Agreed....

It's hilarious to the point of just being sad that people have such a positive feeling towards Woodward when he has failed as a player negotiator thus far....

Last summer his job was to get in top targets and he failed on all accounts... Fellani was bought to save his blushes from looking like he couldn't sign anybody and moyes got the blame!!

The mata signing happened because Chelsea wanted to sell, the player desperately wanted to move and Woodward needed a signing to look like he wasn't the complete disaster he was last summer....

Woodward and Moyes collectively failed, your Fellaini theory is just total bollocks, though. Moyes wanted him, it's as simple as that.

 

[Kag]

I am referring to this transfer window. There is no doubt Woodward fcked up last summer.

Edit: As was the post I quoted.

No worries, I agree then. I love how quiet the whole Herrera deal has been. If he signs then Woodward deserves some credit. The local journos have had it too easy the past year, we need a tight ship again.

 

[Drummer]

Woodward and Moyes collectively failed, your Fellaini theory is just total bollocks, though. Moyes wanted him, it's as simple as that.

Yes.... David moyes wanted united to only sign Fellani and wanted the deal done at the last minute of the transfer window.... Makes complete sense......

 

[Drummer]

No worries, I agree then. I love how quiet the whole Herrera deal has been. If he signs then Woodward deserves some credit. The local journos have had it too easy the past year, we need a tight ship again.

Any pleb can keep their mouth shut and agree a buyout clause for a player.... Way to set the expectation bar as low as possible!!

I reckon there has to be united PR men signing up as members of united forums.... I can't believe people can be so gullible or naieve about certain aspects of the glazers tenure and by extension the competency/motive of Woodward...

 

[Revan]

Any pleb can keep their mouth shut and agree a buyout clause for a player.... Way to set the expectation bar as low as possible!!

I reckon there has to be united PR men signing up as members of united forums.... I can't believe people can be so gullible or naieve about certain aspects of the glazers tenure and by extension the competency/motive of Woodward...

You really are hilarious

 

[SirAF]

Any pleb can keep their mouth shut and agree a buyout clause for a player.... Way to set the expectation bar as low as possible!!

I reckon there has to be united PR men signing up as members of united forums.... I can't believe people can be so gullible or naieve about certain aspects of the glazers tenure and by extension the competency/motive of Woodward...

feck sake

 

[JPRouve]

He was, on Graham Hunter's blog on the ESPN page he mentions the Herrera deal last summer and said that Moyes was uncomfortable with signing anyone he hadn't personally scouted so his preference was to leave him at Bilbao for 12 months and sign him next (this) summer. It shows that regardless of the groundwork laid by the previous administration as far as targets and suggestions went, Moyes wasn't interested at all in any of them and was never going to be.

It's a similar situation with Thiago who we later discovered Moyes nixed or who was that other guy set to join when Moyes turned up and pulled the plug?

I feel sorry for Woodward in hindsight. What should have been a summer of tying up loose ends and getting the players for whom the groundwork had been laid, it instead had to start from scratch with a manager who seemingly only wanted players was overly familiar with e.g Baines and Fellaini. The whole Fabregas thing just seemed like a last minute "what about him?" panic.

It was Strootman, Garay and Thiago. Woodward told him that those three transfers were done and that they needed his approval.

For Strootman, Moyes said "maybe", but that he needed to assess him during the Euro, Strootman refused to delay and signed for Roma.
For Garay, he rejected him
For Thiago he had doubts about his physical abilities, and wanted to scout him personally.

But all those transfers aren't Woodward doing but Gill+Woodward, at the time Gill was still teaching Woodward about football negociations.

 

[Revan]

He was, on Graham Hunter's blog on the ESPN page he mentions the Herrera deal last summer and said that Moyes was uncomfortable with signing anyone he hadn't personally scouted so his preference was to leave him at Bilbao for 12 months and sign him next (this) summer. It shows that regardless of the groundwork laid by the previous administration as far as targets and suggestions went, Moyes wasn't interested at all in any of them and was never going to be.

It's a similar situation with Thiago who we later discovered Moyes nixed or who was that other guy set to join when Moyes turned up and pulled the plug?

I feel sorry for Woodward in hindsight. What should have been a summer of tying up loose ends and getting the players for whom the groundwork had been laid, it instead had to start from scratch with a manager who seemingly only wanted players was overly familiar with e.g Baines and Fellaini. The whole Fabregas thing just seemed like a last minute "what about him?" panic.

Garay, confirmed by the player himself. That Moyes didn't want Herrera, as you said Graham Hunter mentioned it and said that Moyes directly confirmed it to him. If he is lying then Moyes can charge him and Moyes has done these things in the past. Only Thiago is unconfirmed and there were all type of romours that Moyes didn't want him. Thiago's dad said that too although Thiago himself said that we never talked with them.

 

[Kag]

Yes.... David moyes wanted united to only sign Fellani and wanted the deal done at the last minute of the transfer window.... Makes complete sense......

You're boring. The thinking behind the Fellaini/Baines joint bid has been well documented. By paying Fellaini's release clause we wouldn't have been able to pursue Baines, as Everton would have pocketed a fair amount of cash, thus not having to sell, or sell extortionately. Furthermore, Moyes has also said that he didn't want Fellaini to be his first signing, presumably because he wanted to make a statement with somebody like Fabregas. And that is Moyes in a nutshell, a bloke that was full of fear and hopelessly out of his depth, more bothered about making a splash in the market as opposed to doing what was best for the team.

 

[JPRouve]

It was Strootman, Garay and Thiago. Woodward told him that those three transfers were done and that they needed his approval.

For Strootman, Moyes said "maybe", but that he needed to assess him during the Euro, Strootman refused to delay and signed for Roma.
For Garay, he rejected him
For Thiago he had doubts about his physical abilities, and wanted to scout him personally.

But all these transfers aren't Woodward doing but Gill+Woodward, at the time Gill was still teaching Woodward about football negociations.

 

[Revan]

It was Strootman, Garay and Thiago. Woodward told him that those three transfers were done and that they needed his approval.

For Strootman, Moyes said "maybe", but that he needed to assess him during the Euro, Strootman refused to delay and signed for Roma.
For Garay, he rejected him
For Thiago he had doubts about his physical abilities, and wanted to scout him personally.

But all those transfers aren't Woodward doing but Gill+Woodward, at the time Gill was still teaching Woodward about football negociations.

Just imagine if Moyes was a bit less moron than he was and had accepted those transfers. He maybe might had saved his job for an another year or two if he had done it.

 

[Amir]

Woodward and Moyes collectively failed, your Fellaini theory is just total bollocks, though. Moyes wanted him, it's as simple as that.

He did, but he also didn't want to make him his first signing, which would explain why we didn't just activate his release clause. We wanted to wait and sign someone else before we did that deal. Was Moyes scared for himself and the reaction if he made Fellaini his first signing, or was he worried it'll be too much for Fellaini (if it is, he has no business being at United anyway...). One way or another, it doesn't reflect good on the manager.

 

[Nights]

Just imagine if Moyes was a bit less moron than he was and had accepted those transfers. He maybe might had saved his job for an another year or two if he had done it.

I think United will look back on Moyes as nothing but an unmitigated disaster.

I don't know how anyone could have doubts about someone like Thiago.

 

[Kag]

He did, but he also didn't want to make him his first signing, which would explain why we didn't just activate his release clause. We wanted to wait and sign someone else before we did that deal. Was Moyes scared for himself and the reaction if he made Fellaini his first signing, or was he worried it'll be too much for Fellaini (if it is, he has no business being at United anyway...). One way or another, it doesn't reflect good on the manager.

Agreed.

 

[MDFC Manager]

He was, on Graham Hunter's blog on the ESPN page he mentions the Herrera deal last summer and said that Moyes was uncomfortable with signing anyone he hadn't personally scouted so his preference was to leave him at Bilbao for 12 months and sign him next (this) summer. It shows that regardless of the groundwork laid by the previous administration as far as targets and suggestions went, Moyes wasn't interested at all in any of them and was never going to be.

It's a similar situation with Thiago who we later discovered Moyes nixed or who was that other guy set to join when Moyes turned up and pulled the plug?

I feel sorry for Woodward in hindsight. What should have been a summer of tying up loose ends and getting the players for whom the groundwork had been laid, it instead had to start from scratch with a manager who seemingly only wanted players was overly familiar with e.g Baines and Fellaini. The whole Fabregas thing just seemed like a last minute "what about him?" panic.

Exactly. The other Moyes rejected deals were Garay and Strootman. Then you have the shambles of going in for De Rossi after the decision deadline Roma gave us, because he was still chasing Fabregas who was never going to be sold (as Thiago was sold to keep him). We probably approached Coentrao 2 days before the window closes as Moyes wrongly judged that Everton could be forced to sell him.

I could still see why someone would jointly blame Woody and Moyes (though I don't agree with it), but to exclusively blame Woodward is just laughable.

 

[Plugsy]

Maybe had Moyes spent his time watching videos of various players rather than pissing off on Holiday from mid-May to the beginning of July, last year may have not been so disasterous

 

[Nights]

Yes.... David moyes wanted united to only sign Fellani and wanted the deal done at the last minute of the transfer window.... Makes complete sense......

It makes sense when you take into account how he's scouted and signed players in the past.

 

[MDFC Manager]

He did, but he also didn't want to make him his first signing, which would explain why we didn't just activate his release clause. We wanted to wait and sign someone else before we did that deal. Was Moyes scared for himself and the reaction if he made Fellaini his first signing, or was he worried it'll be too much for Fellaini (if it is, he has no business being at United anyway...). One way or another, it doesn't reflect good on the manager.

If he didn't want Fellaini as his first deal, why on earth did he not sanction paying the release clause on Herrera? Or go in for De Rossi earlier? Or go for the bargains called Thiago & Strootman (who were already well scouted by the club)? I'm sorry I don't buy your theory.

Just imagine if Moyes was a bit less moron than he was and had accepted those transfers. He maybe might had saved his job for an another year or two if he had done it.

All's well that ends well they say.

 

[MDFC Manager]

He was, on Graham Hunter's blog on the ESPN page he mentions the Herrera deal last summer and said that Moyes was uncomfortable with signing anyone he hadn't personally scouted so his preference was to leave him at Bilbao for 12 months and sign him next (this) summer. It shows that regardless of the groundwork laid by the previous administration as far as targets and suggestions went, Moyes wasn't interested at all in any of them and was never going to be.

It's a similar situation with Thiago who we later discovered Moyes nixed or who was that other guy set to join when Moyes turned up and pulled the plug?

I feel sorry for Woodward in hindsight. What should have been a summer of tying up loose ends and getting the players for whom the groundwork had been laid, it instead had to start from scratch with a manager who seemingly only wanted players was overly familiar with e.g Baines and Fellaini. The whole Fabregas thing just seemed like a last minute "what about him?" panic.

Having just read that ESPN article, it seems that journos had a direct line to Moyes for some reason. Does that explain some of the transfer info leaks? I do think Woodward also talked to the media too often but I think so was Moyes.

 

[Amir]

If he didn't want Fellaini as his first deal, why on earth did he not sanction paying the release clause on Herrera? Or go in for De Rossi earlier? Or go for the bargains called Thiago & Strootman (who were already well scouted by the club)? I'm sorry I don't buy your theory.

It's not a theory. This is what Moyes said a couple of days ago:

"Without going over old ground regarding last summer's transfer window, I want to make two points. The last thing we wanted was to make him my first signing as United manager and the only signing of the summer.

"That was always going to bring too great a spotlight on him. But by the time we got to deadline day the club hadn't been able to close a couple of big deals and there was no choice."

Why didn't we go or pay heavily for other players? Now that IS a theory. I think Moyes was like a scared cat, fearing the possibility of signing someone who he didn't know 100%, either personally or by extensive scouting. So good names came and went, and nothing happened.

 

[RedSky]

I really believe Woodward is going to deliver big time this window.

As do I mate, as do I.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

It's not a theory. This is what Moyes said a couple of days ago:

"Without going over old ground regarding last summer's transfer window, I want to make two points. The last thing we wanted was to make him my first signing as United manager and the only signing of the summer.

"That was always going to bring too great a spotlight on him. But by the time we got to deadline day the club hadn't been able to close a couple of big deals and there was no choice."

Why didn't we go or pay heavily for other players? Now that IS a theory. I think Moyes was like a scared cat, fearing the possibility of signing someone who he didn't know 100%, either personally or by extensive scouting. So good names came and went, and nothing happened

I think that's probably close to the truth. On the one hand you can understand him being sceptical about signing players he hasn't personally seen but on the other hand why would he possibly think any of his Everton targets (all disrespect to them) would be good enough for us? Another example of how out of his depth he was.

He should've trusted the advice he had been given and kept some more of the original backroom staff around but of course we all know this already.