Woodward (old thread)

Should Studward remain as CE of Manchester United?

  • No - he should be sacked also.

    Votes: 40 22.6%

  • Yes - he should stay.

    Votes: 137 77.4%
  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
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Rednotdead said:
I'm not "scrambling around" at all. Are you saying the job of attracting sponsorship involves getting people to spend money they don't want to spend? Surely not.

You seem to have missed my point completely. I'm not trying to deny Woodward credit for anything. What I've said is that negotiating transfers requires a different skillset from negotiating sponsorship deals (which he has done exceptionally well) and we don't yet know how good he is at that.
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I agree the two are different but I disagree with what you think the distinction is. Attracting sponsorship involves getting companies to spend more than they want to spend, and it involves convincing them to spend it with you. If the sponsors were as willing as you seem to be suggesting, they would be calling us. It wouldnt have taken Woodward investing massive sums revamping our commercial organisation because theyd have been calling Gill asking to sponsor us. But they werent. Companies have a budget and they dont know if they are going to spend that on billboards or pretty girls doing promotions in bars or TV commercials or sponsoring a sports team. We would call them up and try to talk them into spending their money on us. They may be interested or they may require some convincing, they might haggle on the price.

Its not so different with a player. Chelsea wanted to sell Mata. But take Fellaini, Everton werent looking to sell him, but we arrived at a price at which they preferred to sell than to keep him. That is how business gets done.

I agree Woodward hasnt proved himself adept at negotiating player transfers yet and there will be some differences, I just think in your post above you are implying greater differences between the two than there actually are. Any negotiation starts out with two sides having opposing aims, to get the best possible deal for their organisation.
 
Adebesi said:
I agree the two are different but I disagree with what you think the distinction is. Attracting sponsorship involves getting companies to spend more than they want to spend, and it involves convincing them to spend it with you. If the sponsors were as willing as you seem to be suggesting, they would be calling us. It wouldnt have taken Woodward investing massive sums revamping our commercial organisation because theyd have been calling Gill asking to sponsor us. But they werent. Companies have a budget and they dont know if they are going to spend that on billboards or pretty girls doing promotions in bars or TV commercials or sponsoring a sports team. We would call them up and try to talk them into spending their money on us. They may be interested or they may require some convincing, they might haggle on the price.

Its not so different with a player. Chelsea wanted to sell Mata. But take Fellaini, Everton werent looking to sell him, but we arrived at a price at which they preferred to sell than to keep him. That is how business gets done.

I agree Woodward hasnt proved himself adept at negotiating player transfers yet and there will be some differences, I just think in your post above you are implying greater differences between the two than there actually are. Any negotiation starts out with two sides having opposing aims, to get the best possible deal for their organisation.
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And he is ignoring that there are limits to how far you can go, that with some players and clubs those limits do not exist ( Roma would never sell Totti ) and that there are other factors that decide the fate of transfer dealings like location, culture and the presence of a manager like Guardiola/Fergie/Mourinho . It's not always the club's fault when a deal goes sour and in some instances the club would rightfully avoid creating a Messi -Neymar scenario, where the club ends up offering terms to a new player that are better than what your talisman is getting which creates unnecessary tension and drive up the overall wage bill . The only issue here is that we've had a poor seasonso any time we miss out on a player it becomes more pronounced .
I would blame Woodward if we ever got Barcelona, or any other seller, on the negotiating table and the deal went tits up because we haggled over a couple of millions when the likes of Young and Fellaini are gobbling up those said millions, re the Hazard and Lucas signings .
 
itso 7 said:
And he is ignoring that there are limits to how far you can go, that with some players and clubs those limits do not exist ( Roma would never sell Totti ) and that there are other factors that decide the fate of transfer dealings like location, culture and the presence of a manager like Guardiola/Fergie/Mourinho . It's not always the club's fault when a deal goes sour and in some instances the club would rightfully avoid creating a Messi -Neymar scenario, where the club ends up offering terms to a new player that are better than what your talisman is getting which creates unnecessary tension and drive up the overall wage bill . The only issue here is that we've had a poor seasonso any time we miss out on a player it becomes more pronounced .
I would blame Woodward if we ever got Barcelona, or any other seller, on the negotiating table and the deal went tits up because we haggled over a couple of millions when the likes of Young and Fellaini are gobbling up those said millions, re the Hazard and Lucas signings .
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And you're ignoring what I actually said - we don't yet know whether Woodward is capable of pulling off these deals. I've never at any stage criticised him. That was all I said and apparently I have to keep repeating it.
 
Adebesi said:
We went from having a great squad that regularly won the league to being told our squad was well below par and we needed to invest massively in a major squad rebuild. It's not just about the business itself either, it's the expectation management.
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We've been complaining about our CM for years, long before Woodward became CEO.

And the whole talk about major squad renewal came from Moyes.

itso 7 said:
I would blame Woodward if we ever got Barcelona, or any other seller, on the negotiating table and the deal went tits up because we haggled over a couple of millions when the likes of Young and Fellaini are gobbling up those said millions, re the Hazard and Lucas signings .
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David Gill did the haggling over a couple of millions. And we lost some gems because of that. And during the PLC days, we lost them over wages (Ronaldinho).

It's almost as if Ed doesn't haggle given the fees he's paid. The figures for Mata and Shaw (rumours) seems to suggest Ed's over paying rather than haggling.
 
Miscemayl said:
We've been complaining about our CM for years, long before Woodward became CEO.

And the whole talk about major squad renewal came from Moyes.
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Very true. But, as far as your first point goes, it was still a much better position to be bargaining from, as other clubs couldnt smell our desperation and therefore couldnt hold us to random in quite the same way. We have got ourselves into a very unenviable position this summer, saying we are going to do this and that, major squad rebuild, money no object. Im sure we will sign some players but its going to be a very difficult to meet fans expectations after all the buildup.

But you are right, that originally came from Moyes so its not necessarily something I would blame Woodward for.
 
The most interesting to happen from a United pov lately is Lindegaard getting married and our players doing well at the WC. And Woody had nothing todo with neither, one would presume.
 
Suus said:
The most interesting to happen from a United pov lately is Lindegaard getting married and our players doing well at the WC. And Woody had nothing todo with neither, one would presume.
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Yeah apart from, sacking moyes/appointing van gaal/giggs's new role/evra's new contract... Nah, woodward is useless.
 
Sherzad said:
Yeah apart from, sacking moyes/appointing van gaal/giggs's new role/evra's new contract... Nah, woodward is useless.
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Woodward only informed Moyes, the Glazers made the decision.
Woodward didn't appoint Van Gaal, the Glazers did.
Woodward didn't give Giggs the role, Van Gaal did.
Woodward didn't decide to give Evra a new contract, that was Van Gaal's decision.
 
Rednotdead said:
Woodward only informed Moyes, the Glazers made the decision.
Woodward didn't appoint Van Gaal, the Glazers did.
Woodward didn't give Giggs the role, Van Gaal did.
Woodward didn't decide to give Evra a new contract, that was Van Gaal's decision.
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Actually - Evra had a clause that stated that HE, the player, not the club, had control over a one-year extension. Ergo, HE, the player decided.
 
Rednotdead said:
Woodward only informed Moyes, the Glazers made the decision.
Woodward didn't appoint Van Gaal, the Glazers did.
Woodward didn't give Giggs the role, Van Gaal did.
Woodward didn't decide to give Evra a new contract, that was Van Gaal's decision.
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I'm not sure how true that first one is. Yes ultimately it was the Glazer's decision as in they could have over-ruled him at any time but given what we know about the Glazers in relation to how they run Manchester United and from what we read about Woodward's position, I think the Americans are far more likely to have taken counsel and advice on the decision rather than made it themselves.
 
Suus said:
Actually - Evra had a clause that stated that HE, the player, not the club, had control over a one-year extension. Ergo, HE, the player decided.
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Correct, but don't you think woodward/van gaal convened hime to extend his contract.? We don't want you evra - screw you, I have a clause in my contract I am staying.
 
Rednotdead said:
Woodward only informed Moyes, the Glazers made the decision.
Woodward didn't appoint Van Gaal, the Glazers did.
Woodward didn't give Giggs the role, Van Gaal did.
Woodward didn't decide to give Evra a new contract, that was Van Gaal's decision.
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Read your post again and think hard! :)
 
Rednotdead said:
Woodward only informed Moyes, the Glazers made the decision.
Woodward didn't appoint Van Gaal, the Glazers did.
Woodward didn't give Giggs the role, Van Gaal did.
Woodward didn't decide to give Evra a new contract, that was Van Gaal's decision.
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Like Plugsy, I'm more convinced that Woodward made the decision and the Glazers just rubber stamped it.

The Glazers will definitely be involved in the decision from our side but I thought it was Woodward that went and actually talked to LVG and try convincing him to come. Or do you assume Woodward "only informed" LVG of Glazers' decision and he came running to us?

Interim manager happened before LVG? And many here are suggesting we "convinced" LVG to take Giggs as AM rather than it being LVG's first choice.

I don't even particularly like the guy but credit where credit's due.
 
Sherzad said:
Correct, but don't you think woodward/van gaal convened hime to extend his contract.? We don't want you evra - screw you, I have a clause in my contract I am staying.
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They wouldnt have given him the clause if they didnt want him for two years. Its a basic tool many clubs and players use, so see how the relationship is going when a player is nearing the end of his playing career. And yes, the club can say they'd prefer him not to renew, but legally, they dont have a foot to stand on, if he wants to stay. It's within his rights as a stated in the contract. Obviously the club can buyout his contract, but I doubt that would happen here, no matter how the relationship between club and player would be.
 
Miscemayl said:
Like Plugsy, I'm more convinced that Woodward made the decision and the Glazers just rubber stamped it.

The Glazers will definitely be involved in the decision from our side but I thought it was Woodward that went and actually talked to LVG and try convincing him to come. Or do you assume Woodward "only informed" LVG of Glazers' decision and he came running to us?

Interim manager happened before LVG? And many here are suggesting we "convinced" LVG to take Giggs as AM rather than it being LVG's first choice.

I don't even particularly like the guy but credit where credit's due.
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What would've Kluivert brought to the table that Giggs couldnt? Surely no plausible reasons can be mentioned.
 
I think van Gaal was open to keep Giggs on but I'd speculate that the specific role he had was possibly a sticking point. We heard that Giggs didn't want a junior coaching role.
 
Suus said:
They wouldnt have given him the clause if they didnt want him for two years. Its a basic tool many clubs and players use, so see how the relationship is going when a player is nearing the end of his playing career. And yes, the club can say they'd prefer him not to renew, but legally, they dont have a foot to stand on, if he wants to stay. It's within his rights as a stated in the contract. Obviously the club can buyout his contract, but I doubt that would happen here, no matter how the relationship between club and player would be.
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Players need convening to stay or extend their contract, it's as simple as that. Totally different contractual situation but we saw what happened with pogba. I don't believe that Gill or SAF did enough to convince hime to stay, but thats a different matter. I believe we should give full credit to woodward for extending evra's contract and moyes/van gaal situation.
 
My summer prediction is that we will sign martins indi, strootman, depay, shaw and clasie after the wc ends and I am sure woodward will be hailed as a transfer window genius when all these names arrive this summer.....the reason we'll have loads of good new players this summer compared to last is because this time round we'll have a world class manager calling the shots and not some mid table charlatan
 
Ringo 07 said:
My summer prediction is that we will sign martins indi, strootman, depay, shaw and clasie after the wc ends and I am sure woodward will be hailed as a transfer window genius when all these names arrive this summer.....the reason we'll have loads of good new players this summer compared to last is because this time round we'll have a world class manager calling the shots and not some mid table charlatan
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I want to be excited about that list but having not really seen Indi, Depay, Classie play and not much of Strootman either it's difficult. I hope we do sign them as they're all meant to be very talented youngsters and Strootman will fit in nicely from what I have seen of him. We need some serious quality that is immediately good enough for our first team, I have complete faith van Gaal will bring the right players with him. Messing up in the summer was Moyes downfall but now it's obvious to everyone we are desperate for some world class players so I can't see van Gaal making the same mistake.
 
I see it panning out just like last summer only Van Gaal is likely to be much more aggressive and angry at Woodward than Moyes ever could be.
 
He either delivers this summer or he doesn't, he'll be shafted if he doesn't anyway. I'm relaxed.
 
Really hilarious to watch how he got 'some' breathing space after Mata's signing but it lasted just untill now. Since Moyes' is gone, Woodward seems to be getting double-stick.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
He either delivers this summer or he doesn't, he'll be shafted if he doesn't anyway. I'm relaxed.
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Worst case for Edward is delegating the transfers part of his remit to someone better qualified, honestly could see that happening even if he has a decent window. We need a specialist in that area, whild Woodward can focus on the commercial side and overall administration which must be a full-time job in itself.
 
We can only judge him after this window. Till then everyone has to give him time. I dont like him, but time has to be given.
 
Suus said:
What would've Kluivert brought to the table that Giggs couldnt? Surely no plausible reasons can be mentioned.
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Well Van Gaal knows and trusts Kluivert, he doesn't know and therefore hasn't built that trust with Giggs.

For all we know Kluivert may be the next Mourinho of something, Van Gaal would know better than anyone.
 
Not getting Cesc! Woody must have forgotten his wallet.. Or he might have a CMophobia! Last summer was a total desaster and our Woody is off to a terrible start..
 
The guy is an absolute tool.

Should learn to keep his mouth shut. He's spent months telling every journalist that we've got deals done and even went as far as telling Daniel Taylor we had "signed 2 players already". Also spent a whole load time spouting shite about how important it was to sign players before the world cup.

Yes, its only June and still got plenty of time. My point is he's made himself look like an imbecile.....again.
 
LonelyFire said:
The guy is an absolute tool.

Should learn to keep his mouth shut. He's spent months telling every journalist that we've got deals done and even went as far as telling Daniel Taylor we had "signed 2 players already". Also spent a whole load time spouting shite about how important it was to sign players before the world cup.

Yes, its only June and still got plenty of time. My point is he's made himself look like an imbecile.....again.
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Nah, he's gonna jump into his talking mode again soon and wank how quickly we wrapped a deal for Southampton player despite there was absolutely no news about club accepting our deal.
 
LonelyFire said:
The guy is an absolute tool.

Should learn to keep his mouth shut. He's spent months telling every journalist that we've got deals done and even went as far as telling Daniel Taylor we had "signed 2 players already". Also spent a whole load time spouting shite about how important it was to sign players before the world cup.

Yes, its only June and still got plenty of time. My point is he's made himself look like an imbecile.....again.
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That was before we signed Van Gaal though, which could easily have been true. I for one think that we had Coutinho transfer agreed and was ready to join, the other being Shaw I imagine which had dragged on longer than expected because of the Southampton Manager change.
 
Chelsea are brilliant in transfer market. No time waisting or media bull shit - they just sign who they want, if not they keep their mouth shut.
 
Van Piorsing said:
Nah, he's gonna jump into his talking mode again soon and wank how quickly we wrapped a deal for Southampton player despite there was absolutely no news about club accepting our deal.
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Very probably. He just doesnt have a clue what he's doing. He can talk about the change of manager all he likes - facts are he went on record about having to sign players before world cup....he is creating pressure for himself.
 
I do think he should have kept quiet though. His mistake is getting too over excited and being a bit of a transfer muppet like the rest of us.
 
arthurka said:
Not getting Cesc! Woody must have forgotten his wallet.. Or he might have a CMophobia! Last summer was a total desaster and our Woody is off to a terrible start..
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I heard Cesc favoured no CL and playing beside Tom Cleverley. That and exotic Manchester despite having already lived in London so he knows the place quite a bit. He's a strange one alright.
 
RedSky said:
That was before we signed Van Gaal though, which could easily have been true. I for one think that we had Coutinho transfer agreed and was ready to join, the other being Shaw I imagine which had dragged on longer than expected because of the Southampton Manager change.
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Club were already considering sacking Moyes months ago. Woodward should have expected that there would be a different list of targets if a new manager was brought in. Shouldn't have started mouthing off to journalists about deals done as the new manager might have wanted different targets.
 
RedSky said:
That was before we signed Van Gaal though, which could easily have been true. I for one think that we had Coutinho transfer agreed and was ready to join, the other being Shaw I imagine which had dragged on longer than expected because of the Southampton Manager change.
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Coutinho? We clearly havent signed Shaw either. We may well do....but its not done.

Before LVG or not, he shouldnt be saying jack shit to the press. He is doing nothing but creating pressure for himself and in turn making the club look incompetent. If he continues with his "urgent transfer business" nonsense then we are going to be in a bit of bother come September.
 
I dont understand why he feels the need to link shit to the media but I dont blame him 1 bit for not getting Cesc. Wouldnt surprise me at all if LvG isnt interested.
 
LonelyFire said:
Very probably. He just doesnt have a clue what he's doing. He can talk about the change of manager all he likes - facts are he went on record about having to sign players before world cup....he is creating pressure for himself.
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That's his job mate. Take pressure off from Glazers and put it on himself as he only care about cold interest in making money for a sport institution he works for.

He's a classic example of a businessman enjoying his trip up on a social ladder. That's all he appears to be right now.
 
Mel_F said:
Club were already considering sacking Moyes months ago. Woodward should have expected that there would be a different list of targets if a new manager was brought in. Shouldn't have started mouthing off to journalists about deals done as the new manager might have wanted different targets.
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I agree, he was unprofessional. He got excited and giddy rather than thinking of the bigger picture. Meh, all part of the learning process, doesn't bother me in the slightest and I'm a proper transfer nerd.

I have my faith in Van Gaals choices, whoever they may be.
 
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