Remember when Madrid got Bale right at the start of last summer with their first bid? You're right, that was awesome.
Woodward (old thread)
- Thread starter smallred
- Start date
- Status
Remember when Madrid got Bale right at the start of last summer with their first bid? You're right, that was awesome.
Bayern announced last January that they were signing lewondoski this summer... What's your point?
Or when they got Ronaldo, just a season late.
So one club announces they're buying someone out of contract months in advance and suddenly Woodwood is bad. Get a grip. NO-ONE has signed anyone yet. To complain about transfers not coming in now would like be complaining about United being at 0-0 after 30 seconds.
Good example and comparison different levels of investment between the clubs.
our club haggles over a couple of million for a 30 mill player, real stumps up more then two and a half times that for their top target..
Remind me how ambitious our owners are again??
Oh we're describing Madrid's spending as 'ambitious' now are we? Madrid couldn't even fork up the cash for Bale without extra help.
How do you know we're haggling for a 30 million player? How do you possibly know that?
Are Chelsea haggling over Costa?
And we JUST signed a 40 million pound player.
So one club announces they're buying someone out of contract months in advance and suddenly Woodwood is bad. Get a grip. NO-ONE has signed anyone yet. To complain about transfers not coming in now would like be complaining about United being at 0-0 after 30 seconds.
You can announce that a player is joining at the transfer window. Where exactly have people been the last few decades???
And bayern have bought other players that didn't join until the summer so it doesn't matter if this years one is a free. In April last year bayern announced the signing of goetze..
People were saying the bid for Shaw was too much the other day. Now its not enough? Make your minds up. Some of you are seriously so impatient. There's hardly been a raft of transfer activity amongst the other clubs so far. It's just two weeks after the end of the season ffs and over 3 months until the window closes. I suggest you learn to be more patient or this window will be utterly tedious for you and consequently the rest of us with a bunch of muppets panicking every two minutes.
Yes, they broke the bank to buy a player they couldn't afford and our owners have taken out more money then they have put into the team. Your point?
One signing in 10 years is your "proof"?
WTF is wrong with people here? Why the staunch defence of Woodward and the glazers? It's like Stockholm syndrome!!
I'll get this out the way now. David Moyes is a clown that created his own pitfalls. He seems to have a personality disorder as well as a lack of talent.
Now back to reality, and I'm sure one of the nine posts I've yet to read has picked up on this, we're two weeks into the new season. In fact, the current one hasn't even ended. We've done all of the things others and I outlined above in a mere two weeks, but even then, in no way is it rational to judge Woodward or the club at this point. If we have signed one player at ten to twelve come September 1st, then you might have a point.
By that point, though, Saint. Dave will have a new club and his disciples will have pissed off on to their new forum, or not.
The Glazers can feck off for all I care. Don't care about them at all.
But Mata has just been signed. It's a clear sign of ambition. You don't just build a team for top four. Football doesn't work that way. If we want to be in top four next year we need to have a title challenging squad.
I'm trying to work out how people can be so naieve to expect anything special from owners who have put nothing into the club.
Mum impatient with ignorance. People defending Woodward and more specifically the glazers when their entire tenure has been about stripping as much from the club as possible..
If you expect us to challenge for the league and champions league you should expect the club to spend the big money on big players. We have seldom looked like doing that and last seasons anomaly doesn't disguise the likes of the sale of ronaldo where the squad was not getting the same sort if investment the likes of city, Chelsea , barca, Madrid and bayern were consistantly doing.
If you are happy with a top 4 spotconsistently then I suppose a person would be content with this sort of transfer strategy.
And if your point is that we've "only" made one massive signing in ten years (ignoring RVP, Berbatov, Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves and Tevez) then it seems ridiculous to then say it's not unsual to sign players early in the transfer window and then give two examples (from another league - one with an out of contract player) of how other big clubs are spending
We have been more successful than Real Madrid in the last ten years with our strategy. Chelsea as well. City as well. etc etc.
Also how do you go about building a team for the top four?
Is there a point the squad reaches when we just say "Yes that's top four now" It makes no sense whatsoever. Arsenal finished 7 points behind Man City this year. They're title challengers. You don't just add two players and think "Yes, now we're ready for top four - but not ready for the title". It's literally nonsense to suggest you can only build for the top four.
Is there a point the squad reaches when we just say "Yes that's top four now" It makes no sense whatsoever. Arsenal finished 7 points behind Man City this year. They're title challengers. You don't just add two players and think "Yes, now we're ready for top four - but not ready for the title". It's literally nonsense to suggest you can only build for the top four.
Nobody has defended Woodward or the Glazers. They're just being rational on the 24th of May.
You're saying this like I have the utmost of faith in Woodward. I don't. I don't even think he was responsible for tying up Mata (my personal opinion). I have no idea how he will fare this window either. None of us do. However, I cannot understand people writing him, or our transfer strategy off two weeks after the end of the season. He hasn't failed in anything yet this window. We might not have bought Kroos but we could still land Vidal and Fabregas (not saying we will just using an example). We might still spend big. Its not like its August 30th and we are running out of time. It's impossible to come to any conclusions yet. For all we know he could still play a blinder and sign 4-5 very good players. Just calm down and stop painting a picture of foreboding doom.
The glazers don't think like that... This squad is prob good enough to get a top 4 with one or two signings. LVG promotes from within which suits their agenda...
It's widely accepted that a few seasons in top 4 with the odd trophy won't have that much an economic effect on the value of the club.
Put it this way.. Winner of epl gets roughly 100mil. United got something like 80mil for coming 7th!
You get 30 mil for qualifying for champo league. Think it's like another 30 mil for getting to final and winning.
So where's the financial motive to invest in a squad to win the champions league or league consistantly? You only need a decent squad to get to the champions league quarter finals and the league financial benefits are just mil per place.
The glazers could have a strategy where the club might win one league or champions league the next 5 seasons that would more then enough to help them meet their goals.
That is the limit of their ambitions.. To make as much money as quickly as possible with as little investment as possible. And in business , quality is not always the most important factor. If you can sell your product and make a profit it doesn't matter how average it is!
They didn't pay a penny for the club and could already make over a billion if they sold it. Do you really think they have an awful lot on the line to lose if the club spent a few years in mediocrity?
I agree to a certain extent. But there is too much which is flying in all sorts of directions at the moment to make an informed judgement on where the Glazers actually stand. Us "doing an Arsenal" has been a worry for years. However, there's a perfectly logical counter argument to the 4th place trophy theory: United mounting genuine challenges on a regular basis - and actually winning proper trophies - is surely MORE profitable for the Glazers than settling for an Arsenal like string of top four finishes. And the investment needed to mount such challenges isn't disproportional to the benefits reaped - or so it seems to me.
Yes, the Glazers care about nothing but the bottom line. But that isn't proof they intend to do an Arsenal. Let's wait and see what actually happens this window before jumping to conclusions.
He seemed to be pretty good at his previous job, getting commercial partners signed up. So far, as CEO, not convinced yet.
Last summer, he seemingly bungled Fabregas after spending most of the summer making unrealistically low bids for him. Having wasted all that time, and the deadline day fast approaching, he then badly bungled the Herrera deal and ended up panic buying Fellaini for significantly more than we could have done for his release clause.
I am willing to give him another chance this summer but, I have to be honest, this would be his last chance for me.
Last summer, he seemingly bungled Fabregas after spending most of the summer making unrealistically low bids for him. Having wasted all that time, and the deadline day fast approaching, he then badly bungled the Herrera deal and ended up panic buying Fellaini for significantly more than we could have done for his release clause.
I am willing to give him another chance this summer but, I have to be honest, this would be his last chance for me.
He hates the Glazers so obviously he can't give an opinion regarding the matter which isn't completely biased. He mentions for example Bayern as a squad which has invested despite that we spend more than them. Madrid and Barca are expected to spend more than us because they have a higer revenue than us (Madrid revenue is almost a hundred million higher than us for example). Same goes for Chelsea, City and PSG and as long as we don't find a sugar dady (assuming that FFP is a joke) they will spend more than us. You can't complain about that, it's simple, clubs that have more money than us spend more than us. However we spend more than all other teams.
Glazers aren't good, everyone knows them. We are better than we were before them though in every way. And while people like Drummer attribute this to SAF, SAF was here also before the Glazers and we weren't as much succesful as under them, neither have as big revenue and our wage (on percentage to revenue) was way lower.
True but the problem is that under his tenure the club has really talked big publicly about transfers but in one out of two transfer periods they have performed poorly.
I agree that we should wait and see, just won't have people making sh*t up about how good and ambitious Woodward and by extension the glazers are for the club.
There is so much wrong (factually and anecdotally) with this post I wouldn't know where to begin....
Begin whenever you want. Peter Kenyon said that if SAF want to sign a player (when SAF moaned for his team being much shorter than European rivals), he first need to sell a player. This hasn't been repeated under Glazers. We had a wage limit before (around 45% if I am not mistaken) and transfers failed because of that. One of the first things Glazers did was removing that ceil. They even paid half of the fee for the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo.
Sir Alex was on both regimes but we were much more succesful under Glazers than in the previous regime. We finally become an European force during the last decade. From SAF book, he says that until Gill become CEO (under the Glazers again), he was always underpaid.
So yeah, people need to get rid of the illusion that things were all great before and since the Glazers come they have become worse. This wasn't never the case. If nothing else we are better than we were before them.
I don't think anyone has expressed this point. Just that two weeks after the season has ended, and 3 months before the transfer window closes is too soon to judge anything yet.
What i dont like in all this is Kroos, Cesc and players of that calibre are always going to be hard to sign. Gill or Ed would have a hard time signing them. When was the last time we signed a superstar? Veron? So looking at this the wrong way will never be fair to the guy.. Shaw well offering 30m and 100k in wages should be the most crazy offer for a 18 y old leftback... Alba under 20m and Alves in his prime 22m so offering more is ridiculous.. If we cant sign Shaw for this amount it cant be put on our Ed, its just not meant to happen..
What? I never said that.
@ the titleAre 2 and 3 not deals that your mate had tied up?
It does seem the case that we struggle to bring in the top players from abroad.
Domestic top players seem another story, especially the last few years, but we seem to bizarrely have less appeal than we should to these top bracket players even though we have the name, money and salary. I never understand it.
Domestic top players seem another story, especially the last few years, but we seem to bizarrely have less appeal than we should to these top bracket players even though we have the name, money and salary. I never understand it.
How do you know we're haggling over a couple of million with any deal? Unless you're sitting in on the discussions you haven't got a clue what's going on. You're just making up things to be annoyed at.
People really just lose all sense of reason in football transfer windows.
How ong has LVG been on the job now, a week? Be patient, if it is another season of incompetence we'll have plenty to bitch about then.
Me? I've been preaching patience all morning.
It's the city. If you are a multi-millionaire in your 20s, London has more attractions and is more cosmopolitan (to say nothing of the appeal of Barcelona, Madrid, Munich and Paris).
don't have the time or the patience to school you in basic economics or in human motivation but will give you a taste.
SAF fell out with magnier and McManus and saw how that effected his ability to manage. He got a payhike from the glazers and publically supported them because it suited him. I have nothing but love for SAF, but he towed the company line that they only wanted to invest in youth (until van Persie ). Why would SAF give a f**k what a player cost if he wanted them? He simply wanted to manage the club and continue his legacy, only way to do that was by supporting the glazers publically.
If you think for one second that our transfer strategy was enhanced by the glazers you are even more deluded then I thought.
More money has gone to service the debt the owners have put on the club then on transfers. The club has been successful in spite of the glazers thru SAF genius, not because of their ownership.
Rio Ferdinand and veron each cost 30 million. That was spent at the start of 00s when the club was valued at less then 500mil. The club is worth 4 times that now and they still don't spend much more. That aside , the club were breaking English records, signing Keane, cole, ruud, rio and Veron.
Even using this as a crude barometer of our transfer strategy since the glazers took over we haven't once made record signings during their tenure... You compare our rivals transfers and wages to judge what level we are investing in our squad. You don't look back at what we used to spend, as that gives no indication of what the going rate for players or wage bills should be
Oh and wages.. United were consistently third behind city and Chelsea during the glazers reign. We still have a 50mil a year less wage budget then city and yet the club is valued as one of the top 3 clubs in the world..
Incidentally you pick and choose random figures to suit your random points... Try using a benchmark and instead of making random statements either link evidence or show us your calculations.
In correlation with success in a top league I think it's fair to say that bayern, barca, Madrid, city and Chelsea are the best barometer.
Tell you what, why don't you give us all a comprehensive picture of how you feel the glazers have supported the team with comparable net signings and wages over their 10 years.. Then include the increase in revenue (remember for example Cardiff got more money this season for finishing last then united got for winning it last season).
Don't forget to use inflationary costs in comparison to similar sizes clubs and transfer costs (increased with likes of Monaco, psg and Russian billionaire clubs).
Then I will take you seriously and will have a proper debate.. This post hasn't even scratched the surface of how badly wrong you have it but to be frank I don't want to spend anymore time dissecting your misinformed views then I have to....
Not sure the Madrid/Bale deal is a good contrast to our general approach as A) a lot of posters were criticising the insanity of that bid last year and B) we did in fact match that bid.
We can certainly do things better than we have been but we're never going to be able to operate in the same way Madrid does and I'm fairly sure a lot of posters wouldn't necessarily want that either.
We can certainly do things better than we have been but we're never going to be able to operate in the same way Madrid does and I'm fairly sure a lot of posters wouldn't necessarily want that either.
I agree, I was backing you. Muppet season can drive you nuts.
- Status