Willian

Status
Not open for further replies.
VancouverUtdFan said:
He opens up space and creates for others. He’s the type of player who’ll score 10 goals or so and make Lukaku have 20+ league goals and the supporting cast attackers 10+ each.

Add together all those increases and it’s what will make a big difference. /Willian isn’t being brought in for his goals primarily. It’s to actually give us RW width and creativity so we’re not as predictable as we are now.
Click to expand...

He isn't that creative. He is more of a Salah type direct player who can trouble defenders. Minus Salah's output of course.

Some can spin it anyway they want, goals per minutes or whatever, but an average of 5 goals a season is appalling. There are surely many wingers out there in the 25-30 age bracket with similar skills as Willian and better end product.

Jose really is in love with this guy.

el3mel said:
Some were saying Matic was underwhelming signing. It's like the signings we're drooling over are working great or something.

Willian is going to make us a balanced side for the first time for years.
Click to expand...

I wanted Matic myself. DM position is different. We can have experienced workhorses there and that will do us good. But for wing positions, the most important stat is goals and assists. Next comes age (should be 24-29 IMO due to requirement for pace associated with the position).

Is there no RW in Europe who scores more and contributes more than Willian? Our transfer policy is myopic.

I hope for Jose's sake that Willian does a Salah if he signs. But jeez, Sanchez-Lukaku-Willian sounds underwhelming on paper (considering Sanchez's current bad form).
 
Micky Targaryen said:
Exactly. How old were RVP, Zlatan and Matic and just how effective they were for us. I will never understand the Caf's weird obsession with age. Actually look at the quality of the player ffs.
Click to expand...
Funny you dont mention Sanchez, who is currently under fire for being past it. No one said old players are necessarily bad, but it certainly isnt a smart piece of business. Especially since Willian's out put isnt even that much better than Martial, who many feel had a poor season
 
Kapardin said:
He isn't that creative. He is more of a Salah type direct player who can trouble defenders. Minus Salah's output of course.

Some can spin it anyway they want, goals per minutes or whatever, but an average of 5 goals a season is appalling. There are surely many wingers out there in the 25-30 age bracket with similar skills as Willian and better end product.

Jose really is in love with this guy.



I wanted Matic myself. DM position is different. We can have experienced workhorses there and that will do us good. But for wing positions, the most important stat is goals and assists. Next comes age (should be 24-29 IMO due to requirement for pace associated with the position).

Is there no RW in Europe who scores more and contributes more than Willian? Our transfer policy is myopic.

I hope for Jose's sake that Willian does a Salah if he signs. But jeez, Sanchez-Lukaku-Willian sounds underwhelming on paper (considering Sanchez's current bad form).
Click to expand...
How is a front 3 of Sanchez, Lukaku and Willian underwhelming?
Sanchez was one of the best players in the league, possibly the best LW in the league just 6 months back. Let's give him some time before we can him a failure.
Lukaku? Other than Kane, is there any other young/youngish striker with a record as good as his? He scored 26 goals this season in all comps and assisted 7.How is that underwhelming?
Willian? While he is not the greatest, he is hardly underwhelming. Underwhelming would be a Mata/Lingard on the RW, which is what we have now.

Lets just trust our manager for a change. He deserves some credit for bringing us to second from sixth. Let him build his team, the way he wants his team to be built. If he still fails to deliver, we will crucify him, but for now, let's give him what he wants.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
What a load of steaming hot bs. Jesus.


More like:

Lukaku - for sure starter...most dependant attacking player

Mikhi - swapped into Alexis

Alexis - for sure starter...came midseason so next season is what he’ll be judged on / no excuses

Zlatan - for sure starter...was one of best strikers in league and joined us on a free ffs. Was only going to be here for a couple years anyways and 2nd season got cut short with that essentially career ending injury. Was on verge of retiring but went to MLS

Bailly - for sure starter...injured all year, so people not remember him when he plays? One of the best CBs in the country

Pogba - for sure starter...due to squad limitations he’s playing box-to-box which doesn’t suit him. Even with him being as inconsistent there as he is, look at our winning % with Pogba in the team regardless of his form versus without him. Night and day difference and goes to show how great he is

Matic - for sure starter...most dependant midfielder who holds everything together

Lindelof - not a for sure starter...hasn’t played enough. Young so can’t conclude if he’s a failure or not


...more like 6 out of 7 signings bar Lindelof are our only for sure starters on the entire team, other than De Gea who’s the only for sure starter Mourinho inherited. Mourinho has hit on virtually all of his signings and shows how bad the team was prior to coming here.
Click to expand...
Bailly is in no way a sure starter
 
mu4c_20le said:
Funny you dont mention Sanchez, who is currently under fire for being past it. No one said old players are necessarily bad, but it certainly isnt a smart piece of business. Especially since Willian's out put isnt even that much better than Martial, who many feel had a poor season
Click to expand...

I will include Sanchez when he is given enough time to prove himself as I think it's still too early to judge. IMO, it's harder to integrate into the squad and tactics when a player joins in January and hopefully Sanchez will fully adapt. I am satisfied with his work rate and willingness to try things. As for Martial and Willian, we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally think Willian is a much better player than Martial currently.
 
Amir said:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with Mourinho's buying (so far). It's what he does with the players he signs that is the issue.
Click to expand...
Yeah, on paper his signings are good. On the pitch, however... that's where the problems start.
 
Wow some of the comments on here are wild! I’d be happy with a starting front 3 of Sanchez-Lukaku-Willian.

And people writing Sanchez off come on! He’ll be great for us after a pre-season.
 
Micky Targaryen said:
I will include Sanchez when he is given enough time to prove himself as I think it's still too early to judge. IMO, it's harder to integrate into the squad and tactics when a player joins in January and hopefully Sanchez will fully adapt. I am satisfied with his work rate and willingness to try things. As for Martial and Willian, we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally think Willian is a much better player than Martial currently.
Click to expand...

Martial's got more goals and assists than Willian in this season when he's not even done that well. I am not saying Martial is adequate by any means, but I really don't see Willian being any better, other than being a proper RW as opposed to the likes of Mata, Lingard etc. Can only hope to be pleasantly surprised.
 
It won't matter who we sign if there is no semblance of an attacking philosophy. Much like LVG, Jose has sucked the life out of the team with his tactics. I'm glad to see the board continue to back Jose in this window, but I think the real pressure is on Jose now. He has to get more out of our attackers, where we have talent but it continues to under perform. And while I do hold players accountable for their performances and attitude, the manager in this case needs so adapt tactics as well.

That said, Willian would be almost the perfect Jose signing for RW. I've rated him for awhile now. He has the workrate required, similar to Lingard, but he out classes him technically.
 
I've always rated Willian very highly. Has a bit of everything in him. Versatile skill set and tactically. Could do a job for us on the wing (where we needed someone to actually cross the ball) and could slot in a wing back or in a midfield three when the tactics require it. Hits a decent set piece too, which is something we have missed for God knows how long. Feels like Becks was the last one who could swing in a decent corner or free kick not aimed at goal.

He is not a very exciting signing from a muppet point of view, but he does tick a lot of boxes.
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
Attacking midfielders with appealing numbers are the worst type of players.
He has some good qualities when on form, but is he such a major major improvement on lingard? I wouldn’t say so, and I don’t rate Lingard that much.
Click to expand...

I think him and Willian are similar in style but miles apart in quality. Willian is very good at keeping the ball, work rate and being an extra playmaker by dropping into midfield. Would be a huge upgrade on Lingard.
 
Ban said:
How come he's a crap player according to CAF?
Click to expand...

He's good but often times a whole dollar is better than 4 quarters.

Right now Lukaku, Willian, Pogba and the current version of Sanchez are all good players but put together they don't compete against the creativity of Salah/Firmino/Mane + whatever additions Liverpool make or Silva x2, de Bruyne, Jesus, Sane and Mahrez etc and those are the teams we are going to have to beat to win the league.

Its fine if you think the manager can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts like Klopp or Pep have done but nothing we have seen from Jose suggests he can build a coherent attacking style.
 
red4ever 79 said:
No thanks. Would much rather we work with the group of attackers we already have. Would take him if it means we could offer them Sanchez or Mata in exchange
Click to expand...

Give Sanchez next season buddy I think you’ll be singing a different tune. A little rest in the summer and a full preseason with a new left back bombing past him.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
He's good but often times a whole dollar is better than 4 quarters.

Right now Lukaku, Willian, Pogba and the current version of Sanchez are all good players but put together they don't compete against the creativity of Salah/Firmino/Mane + whatever additions Liverpool make or Silva x2, de Bruyne, Jesus, Sane and Mahrez etc and those are the teams we are going to have to beat to win the league.

Its fine if you think the manager can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts like Klopp or Pep have done but nothing we have seen from Jose suggests he can build a coherent attacking style.
Click to expand...
By that logic whoever we buy it won't work.
 
Kapardin said:
He isn't that creative. He is more of a Salah type direct player who can trouble defenders. Minus Salah's output of course.

Some can spin it anyway they want, goals per minutes or whatever, but an average of 5 goals a season is appalling. There are surely many wingers out there in the 25-30 age bracket with similar skills as Willian and better end product.

Jose really is in love with this guy.



I wanted Matic myself. DM position is different. We can have experienced workhorses there and that will do us good. But for wing positions, the most important stat is goals and assists. Next comes age (should be 24-29 IMO due to requirement for pace associated with the position).

Is there no RW in Europe who scores more and contributes more than Willian? Our transfer policy is myopic.

I hope for Jose's sake that Willian does a Salah if he signs. But jeez, Sanchez-Lukaku-Willian sounds underwhelming on paper (considering Sanchez's current bad form).
Click to expand...

An option should be Mahrez. More productive and also premier league proven. Not sure if he has the same workrate as Willian but he would certainly strengthen the right side.

However it looks like we are not in for him. And City (the squad that annihilated the league this season) have come calling again. It leaves me scratching my head.
 
Last edited:
First Mata, then Matic and now it looks like Willian will be jumping ship. Does this mean Chelsea are United's feeder club?
 
Dyslexic Untied said:
I've always rated Willian very highly. Has a bit of everything in him. Versatile skill set and tactically. Could do a job for us on the wing (where we needed someone to actually cross the ball) and could slot in a wing back or in a midfield three when the tactics require it. Hits a decent set piece too, which is something we have missed for God knows how long. Feels like Becks was the last one who could swing in a decent corner or free kick not aimed at goal.

He is not a very exciting signing from a muppet point of view, but he does tick a lot of boxes.
Click to expand...

Just like Matic. I would be happy. Not ecstatic but I would understand it. I have had enough of unproven signings that have been played out of position and or underwhelmed. Even if a stop gap I would be happy to strengthen up our right side. My only befuddlement is why the management team don't rate Mahrez??
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
And that's a discussion worth exploring before blindly throwing money in the direction Jose tells us.
Click to expand...
But what's the solution then? I mean we need additions still. Especially in FB department. And I'm sure that will help. Also Jose knows Willian and I guess there's a reason he wants him. It's not blindly throwing money, it's buying a player a manager wants. Its not that he's interested in some crap player.
 
ice-bionic red said:
Wow some of the comments on here are wild! I’d be happy with a starting front 3 of Sanchez-Lukaku-Willian.

And people writing Sanchez off come on! He’ll be great for us after a pre-season.
Click to expand...
Mane (10) - Firminho (10) - Salah (32)
Sane (10) - Aguero (21) - Sterling (18)
Son (12) - Kane (30) - Eriksen (10)
Sanchez (9) - Lukaku (16) - Willian (6)
This is what we are up against just in the league. Sanchez is a PL veteran, he doesn't need any time to settle in, I don't see how his performances improve massively. Willian is a 5 goal per season workhorse who is decent at freekicks and crossing. Unless we are shifting to a crossing philosophy as under Moyes, I don't see how Willian is more useful compared to someone like Mahrez or even Bale (I don't want him either), if experience is the only thing Mourinho is going for.
Is Willian really the best the world has to offer as RW for us to bridge the PL gap?
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Mane (10) - Firminho (10) - Salah (32)
Sane (10) - Aguero (21) - Sterling (18)
Son (12) - Kane (30) - Eriksen (10)
Sanchez (9) - Lukaku (16) - Willian (6)
This is what we are up against just in the league. Sanchez is a PL veteran, he doesn't need any time to settle in, I don't see how his performances improve massively. Willian is a 5 goal per season workhorse who is decent at freekicks and crossing. Unless we are shifting to a crossing philosophy as under Moyes, I don't see how Willian is more useful compared to someone like Mahrez or even Bale (I don't want him either), if experience is the only thing Mourinho is going for.
Is Willian really the best the world has to offer as RW for us to bridge the PL gap?
Click to expand...
I dont think we're buying him just to cross but in any case sometimes you need to cross the ball and it's useful to have a good crosser. Also having a good rest and a preseason I'm sure ALexis will be better next season, not to mention additions we will make to the team. It's not going to be a same team and I'm sure it's not going to be the same numbers too.
 
Womp said:
Willian is extremely underrated on here.
Click to expand...
Correct.

Not many players turn defence to attack as effectively as Willian.

The obsession with players age is ridiculous - id agree if he cost over 50m but he’ll be bought for a price according to his age. He has at least 4 years in him at the top and that’s what we need - ready made players with experience.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
And that's a discussion worth exploring before blindly throwing money in the direction Jose tells us.
Click to expand...

Willian is a tried and tested quantity in that he is both prem proven and Jose proven (yes this is a thing!). But his stats in terms of goals and assists aren't overly impressive and there in lies the problem. United have been struggling to find the back of the net for years, I fail to see how adding another player who contributes little to that stat is going to change that fact. In Jose we trust I guess.

Where would you spend the money if you were in charge?
 
el3mel said:
Some were saying Matic was underwhelming signing. It's like the signings we're drooling over are working great or something.

Willian is going to make us a balanced side for the first time for years.
Click to expand...

Exactly. We’re hopping on one leg. Litteraly nothing from the right side and diminishing defensively down that side as well. At least before we could say we don’t give away much down that side defensively but that’s looking shakey too. So it’s a liability going backwards and a coldesac going forward.

Will add a whole new dimension with service into the Midfield and into the strikers. Lukaku should get even more goals as a result and Pogba will have an actual option out wide rather than having to drive it up the middle predictably.
 
Random Task said:
Willian is a tried and tested quantity in that he is both prem proven and Jose proven (yes this is a thing!). But his stats in terms of goals and assists aren't overly impressive and there in lies the problem. United have been struggling to find the back of the net for years, I fail to see how adding another player who contributes little to that stat is going to change that fact. In Jose we trust I guess.

Where would you spend the money if you were in charge?
Click to expand...

In terms of assists etc William is the “pass before the pass” he is the key component in the transition. He drives the ball out of his own half and finds players in better positions for them to do their thing. We struggle in that.
 
Icemav said:
An option should be Mahrez. More productive and also premier league proven. Not sure if he has the same workrate as Willian but he would certainly strengthen the right side.

However it looks like we are not in for him. And City (the squad that annihilated the league this season) have come calling again. It leaves me scratching my head.
Click to expand...

Yea, I mean we already have Sanchez who’s productive so just some balance with a proper RWer who can open up the field for others and create chances would do wonders. I’m sure José wants a workhorse otherwise he’d just be playing Martial.

Mahrez is an odd ball. Been available for a couple years now yet no ones taken him. I don’t think José fancies him for the type of RW he’s looking for because he could’ve easily been had last summer. Really weird how no ones taken him. Not us, not City, not Arsenal, not Chelsea - who were all linked to him from what I can remember off the top my head.
 
Ban said:
I dont think we're buying him just to cross but in any case sometimes you need to cross the ball and it's useful to have a good crosser. Also having a good rest and a preseason I'm sure ALexis will be better next season, not to mention additions we will make to the team. It's not going to be a same team and I'm sure it's not going to be the same numbers too.
Click to expand...
Begging Fellaini to stay, going after Talisca, trying to get Willian for right wing, it definitely seems crossing and hoofing will be main tactic. It might not be but definitely seems it.
The numbers are to give an indication of where the players are at the moment. That is the whole argument to why we need better players. With Willian what we are getting is not that superior to what we already have.
My personal opinion is Jose is looking for yes men. He has been burned by players his last two clubs. He is willing to get lesser players as long as they just stay loyal to him. That is great for him, not so great for us.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.