William Carvalho

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amolbhatia100 said:
So he's a defensively midfielder?

With him, Carrick, Fellaini and fletcher all being defence minded midfielders (or at best those that tick things over in an attacking sense at best), it seems rather excessive unless we get rid of a few.
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Carrick's getting on.

Fellaini I dont think will ever be good enough to play as the guy that screens the defence. I just dont see in him the required defensive qualities.

Fletch, with all due respect, I wouldnt mind moving on or playing a small squad role if he's going to be an issue when making potential purchases at CM.
 
@Varun @Brwned @devilish that's precisely my point. In Fellaini we added someone who we spent big on and wasn't that good either. Hopefully if were getting this guy a) he's good enough and b) we let someone go. We've got too many midfielders making up he numbers ATM with not enough quality.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
@Varun @Brwned @devilish that's precisely my point. In Fellaini we added someone who we spent big on and wasn't that good either. Hopefully if were getting this guy a) he's good enough and b) we let someone go. We've got too many midfielders making up he numbers ATM with not enough quality.
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Its easier said than done though

Carrick: he's in decline but he still the best CM we have. His experience shouldn't be underestimated
Fletcher: He's a club legend. I tend to be pretty cynical with players, however I struggle to agree with letting him go especially since it would probably ruin his career Parker's way
Fellaini: What a waste of money! Unfortunately no manager will admit his feck up and allow him to leave after just 1 year.
Cleverley: He's a homegrown talent.

Out of this 4 only Cleverley would leave without any consequences. Letting Fletch go will make us look like dbags. Carrick is useful to have around and Fellaini wont be sold.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
that's precisely my point. In Fellaini we added someone who we spent big on and wasn't that good either. Hopefully if were getting this guy a) he's good enough and b) we let someone go. We've got too many midfielders making up he numbers ATM with not enough quality.
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Lets hope so. I've barely seen him play full matches and he's sure to cost quite a bit so we need to get it right. Always a tough ask jumping from Portugese 1st Div to England.
 
My main issue in signing this guy is that he isn't the finished Premier League article yet and I'm not convinced that Moyes, Lumsden and Round are going to help him fulfil his potential.


When we signed young players in the past you knew that Ferguson, Quieroz, Phelan, Meulesteen et al would have them step up a level or two in the space of a season or two. I just don't have that belief in Moyes and his coaches now.
 
Pexbo said:
My main issue in signing this guy is that he isn't the finished Premier League article yet and I'm not convinced that Moyes, Lumsden and Round are going to help him fulfil his potential.

When we signed young players in the past you knew that Ferguson, Quieroz, Phelan, Meulesteen et al would have them step up a level or two in the space of a season or two. I just don't have that belief in Moyes and his coaches now.
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Oh come on. The one and only bright light from this season (arguably) has been the emergence of Januzaj. I suppose that the coaching he received over the course of this season/pre-season is completely irrelevent?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Oh come on. The one and only bright light from this season (arguably) has been the emergence of Januzaj. I suppose that the coaching he received over the course of this season/pre-season is completely irrelevent?
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He had a blinding start to the season and has faded badly :lol: it's a terrible example Pogue.
 
Pexbo said:
He had a blinding start to the season and has faded badly :lol: it's a terrible example Pogue.
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Sterling had that last season aswell.

Does that mean the Rodgers and Co are poor coaches. It happens with all the young players.
 
KM said:
Sterling had that last season aswell.

Does that mean the Rodgers and Co are poor coaches. It happens with all the young players.
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I'm just saying that you can't give Moyes any credit for Januzaj other than playing him. If he grew as the season went on then I'd happily credit him for it but when he started brilliantly you could put it down to the coaching he had from the previous regime and not the 2 months under Moyes and as he hasn't shown any signs of improvement how can you give any credit? You can only judge and credit Moyes for Januzaj in a year or two, there's a complete lack of evidence of any improvement under him so far.
 
Pexbo said:
I'm just saying that you can't give Moyes any credit for Januzaj other than playing him. If he grew as the season went on then I'd happily credit him for it but when he started brilliantly you could put it down to the coaching he had from the previous regime and not the 2 months under Moyes and as he hasn't shown any signs of improvement how can you give any credit? You can only judge and credit Moyes for Januzaj in a year or two, there's a complete lack of evidence of any improvement under him so far.
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Your memory is letting you down, I'm afraid. Januzaj started his first league game for United on the 5th October. Made his CL game debut on December 10th.

But yeah, none of the coaching he received from summer through to autumnw/winter has had anything to do with the player he is now, right?
 
Pexbo said:
How many of which went on to better things?
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Seamus Coleman, Rooney, Leighton Baines all improved under Moyes. So did the likes of Lescott and Jagielka.
 
Pexbo said:
How many of which went on to better things?
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I don't buy that they would be unable to develop Carvalho. In fact, I have the opinion that honing a very promising defensive midfielder into a really top class one would be more Moyes' forte than Fergie's even. I reckon he'd flourish here. I'm sold on him now. Just need to get the right man alongside him. I'd take any of Koke, Herrera, Gundogan, Barkley or an outside bet on Kovacic. Even if I brought one of the others I'd probably still selfishly take a punt on Kovacic as I don't think he'll cost too much.
 
If we're going to critique Moyes and his coaching team when it comes to developing young players you can't ignore the season De Gea is having. Granted, it's a very specialised position but if Moyes thought Chris Wood was the right man to coach our young keeper, maybe he knows a thing or two about hiring the right coaches after all?
 
Why can´t Moyes help Carvalho develop? Moyes has been a manager in the Premier League for more than 10 years and has coached alot of talented players, why should he be less qualified than for example our current Manager Leonardo Jardim who has about 5 years in top flight divisions (Portugal and Greece)? It´s only my opinion but i honestly think that Moyes can help him flourish into a top player. Not only i don´t doubt his capabilities in terms of experience with dealing with players, he also has indept knowledge of the Premier League which enables him to give proper guidance to a player arriving to a much more demanding enviroment and who will deal with much more pressure. How many foreign players has Moyes helped to adapt during all his years at Everton? I can understand the tactical skepticism about Moyes but i don´t doubt his ability to mentor a player.
 
Sly said:
Why can´t Moyes help Carvalho develop? Moyes has been a manager in the Premier League for more than 10 years and has coached alot of talented players, why should he be less qualified than for example our current Manager Leonardo Jardim who has about 5 years in top flight divisions (Portugal and Greece)? It´s only my opinion but i honestly think that Moyes can help him flourish into a top player. Not only i don´t doubt his capabilities in terms of experience with dealing with players, he also has indept knowledge of the Premier League which enables him to give proper guidance to a player arriving to a much more demanding enviroment and who will deal with much more pressure. How many foreign players has Moyes helped to adapt during all his years at Everton? I can understand the tactical skepticism about Moyes but i don´t doubt his ability to mentor a player.
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Look at that. A Moyes apologist. Stone him..
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If we're going to critique Moyes and his coaching team when it comes to developing young players you can't ignore the season De Gea is having. Granted, it's a very specialised position but if Moyes thought Chris Wood was the right man to coach our young keeper, maybe he knows a thing or two about hiring the right coaches after all?
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Chris Woods was regarded as a top goal-keeping coach with Everton & the States, and Anders Lindegaard has been ravin about him a few times saying he's world-class etc etc..

But then we have Round, Lumsden & Neville - no credentials whatsoever to be the backroom staff of the Premier League Champions. Its like McDonalds staff being hired for a Michelin Star restaurant...
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Chris Woods was regarded as a top goal-keeping coach with Everton & the States, and Anders Lindegaard has been ravin about him a few times saying he's world-class etc etc..

But then we have Round, Lumsden & Neville - no credentials whatsoever to be the backroom staff of the Premier League Champions. Its like McDonalds staff being hired for a Michelin Star restaurant...
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Steve Round has worked with England, Boro, Newcastle and Everton. How the hell he doesn't have credentials to be the backroom staff of the Premier League Champions?
Meuleensteen worked for Saudi Arabian clubs and Qatari clubs before coming here, did he have the credentials to be part of the backroom staff of Man Utd.

It's frustrating that I want Moyes sacked, and yet I've to defend him here(I know Pogue also feels the same way)
 
Shinjisan said:
Look at that. A Moyes apologist. Stone him..
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I just think that some criticism of Moyes is unwarranted. We are not talking about tactical aspects of his management, we are talking about his ability to mentor and man manage a player. How could he have been a manager for a club like Everton (who like us, has a funcional academy with a track record) for 10 years, if he didn´t have the ability to mentor youth and foreign players in their transition to the top division in England? That´s precisely what he did. I remember various players from the youth ranks and from abroad who flourished with Moyes. That was never part of my worries.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Chris Woods was regarded as a top goal-keeping coach with Everton & the States, and Anders Lindegaard has been ravin about him a few times saying he's world-class etc etc..

But then we have Round, Lumsden & Neville - no credentials whatsoever to be the backroom staff of the Premier League Champions. Its like McDonalds staff being hired for a Michelin Star restaurant...
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What credentials does Wood have that the others don't? Be specific.
 
Sly said:
I just think that some criticism of Moyes is unwarranted. We are not talking about tactical aspects of his management, we are talking about his ability to mentor and man manage a player. How could he have been a manager for a club like Everton (who like us, has a funcional academy with a track record) for 10 years, if he didn´t have the ability to mentor youth and foreign players in their transition to the top division in England? That´s precisely what he did. I remember various players from the youth ranks and from abroad who flourished with Moyes. That was never part of my worries.
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I fully agree with you mate.
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Chris Woods was regarded as a top goal-keeping coach with Everton & the States, and Anders Lindegaard has been ravin about him a few times saying he's world-class etc etc..

But then we have Round, Lumsden & Neville - no credentials whatsoever to be the backroom staff of the Premier League Champions. Its like McDonalds staff being hired for a Michelin Star restaurant...
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I get your point but is having coaches with credentials that important? Or is it their intrinsic quality and ability? What credencials did Villas Boas and Rui Faria possess when they started with Mourinho? Why can´t Neville improve and impose himself as a top coach? He has a much better background than Villas Boas and Rui Faria. He played for one of the biggest club in the world and ended his career in a respected english club. He has bigger experience and indept knowledge of the game, no doubt. I don´t understand why people keep mentioning Neville. Must be Phelan´s replacement minus the shorts. What´s interesting is that we made a transition from what did Phelan actually do, to Phelan should have never left. Who knows what´s Neville´s influence in the squad and the merits of his work at the moment.
 
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Sly said:
I just think that some criticism of Moyes is unwarranted. We are not talking about tactical aspects of his management, we are talking about his ability to mentor and man manage a player. How could he have been a manager for a club like Everton (who like us, has a funcional academy with a track record) for 10 years, if he didn´t have the ability to mentor youth and foreign players in their transition to the top division in England? That´s precisely what he did. I remember various players from the youth ranks and from abroad who flourished with Moyes. That was never part of my worries.
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That was actually the only thing I rated in the man and hence why I preferred him to Ancelotti who had rarely produced one youth talent in his entire career.
 
KM said:
Steve Round has worked with England, Boro, Newcastle and Everton. How the hell he doesn't have credentials to be the backroom staff of the Premier League Champions?
Meuleensteen worked for Saudi Arabian clubs and Qatari clubs before coming here, did he have the credentials to be part of the backroom staff of Man Utd.

It's frustrating that I want Moyes sacked, and yet I've to defend him here(I know Pogue also feels the same way)
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Pogue Mahone said:
What credentials does Wood have that the others don't? Be specific.
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Truly amazing that some folk seem to have changed their minds in a relatively short period of time, regarding the change of backroom staff. Most of us all agreed that was a mistake & its been mooted that Fergie was fuming with Moyes that he got rid of the old staff - after havin a deal with Moyes that he wouldnt...

Pogue - i dont get how you're playin Devils Advocate with Woods, (thats just argumentative imo) following your high praise of him (a few posts back) with DDG's development this season. Woods has been highly rated for a number of years, hence why he was selected by the States in 2011. I still thought it was a mistake to let Steele go, given that he & DDG were makin great progress after a shaky start..
 
Red Hand Devil said:
Truly amazing that some folk seem to have changed their minds in a relatively short period of time, regarding the change of backroom staff. Most of us all agreed that was a mistake & its been mooted that Fergie was fuming with Moyes that he got rid of the old staff - after havin a deal with Moyes that he wouldnt...

Pogue - i dont get how you're playin Devils Advocate with Woods, (thats just argumentative imo) following your high praise of him (a few posts back) with DDG's development this season. Woods has been highly rated for a number of years, hence why he was selected by the States in 2011. I still thought it was a mistake to let Steele go, given that he & DDG were makin great progress after a shaky start..
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I'm not playing devil's advocate. De Gea's having a great season, so Woods deserves some credit. You were one of many complaining about the decision to let Steele go but it looks as though Woods is doing a great job in his absence. Perhaps it wasn't such a bad decision after all?

I also don't see why being "selected by the States" automatically makes Woods so much better than the other coaches at the club.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm not playing devil's advocate. De Gea's having a great season, so Woods deserves some credit. You were one of many complaining about the decision to let Steele go but it looks as though Woods is doing a great job in his absence. Perhaps it wasn't such a bad decision after all?

I also don't see why being "selected by the States" automatically makes Woods so much better than the other coaches at the club.
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Well perhaps because Tim Howard really improved under Woods which in turn led to the US job.


It's easier to judge Woods because the obvious yardstick is Howard and he did become a very solid goalkeeper under Woods. Whereas the work done by Round etc. is a lot more immeasurable because it's hard to know their exact roles in Moyes' setup.
 
The obsession with comparing and contrasting coaches is a discourse that baffles me. No one sees what they do, all they judge them off is personality, how a team plays (despite having no clue of their input) and what others say about them. On the last point some coaches might simply get along with the players well, everyone likes him and despite him not being excellent players talk about them so us as fans think he's a genius.

Crticising players and managers, fair enough but bashing of coaches makes no sense. I remember when I used to hear people saying Phelan should be sacked as assistant manager, just because he looks dopey and sits there wearing shorts. As if that's enough for us to that Phelan didn't do anything.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Well perhaps because Tim Howard really improved under Woods which in turn led to the US job.

It's easier to judge Woods because the obvious yardstick is Howard and he did become a very solid goalkeeper under Woods. Whereas the work done by Round etc. is a lot more immeasurable because it's hard to know their exact roles in Moyes' setup.
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Plus their influence is spread across a much wider pool of players.

I really only got sucked into this tangent because of the idea that Moyes has surrounded himself with such incompetent coaches that we shouldn't be signing someone like Carvalho on the basis he won't be able to improve as a footballer, with them in charge.

The improvement in De Gea under Wood is just one piece of evidence that Moyes likes to work with people who have a talent for developing young players. I already mentioned Januzaj. In their time at Everton you can look at the likes of Baines, Coleman, Mirallas, Pienaar (who really struggled when he changed clubs) even Marouane fecking Fellaini to see clear evidence that they are quite capable of bringing talented young footballers on to the next level.

That's without even mentioning the two most talented players to come through at Everton in decades. Ross Barkley and Wayne Rooney. Neither of them developed into their prime while Moyes and his team was in charge but the fact they've had a solid footballing foundation is more than evident in what we've seen from them since.
 
Just been awardded player of the month in Portugal for the 4th time this season.
 
KM said:
Seamus Coleman, Rooney, Leighton Baines all improved under Moyes. So did the likes of Lescott and Jagielka.
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Plenty of players have improved under Moyes.
 
Pexbo said:
My main issue in signing this guy is that he isn't the finished Premier League article yet and I'm not convinced that Moyes, Lumsden and Round are going to help him fulfil his potential.


When we signed young players in the past you knew that Ferguson, Quieroz, Phelan, Meulesteen et al would have them step up a level or two in the space of a season or two. I just don't have that belief in Moyes and his coaches now.
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Whats this even supposed to mean? Fellaini was and he hasnt been good enough.

Carvalho has just turned 22.
 
Ekeke said:
Whats this even supposed to mean? Fellaini was and he hasnt been good enough.

Carvalho has just turned 22.
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I just mean we don't know how he will adapt to the pace of the league. Plenty of players don't. The difference is that everyone knew full well that Fellaini wasn't good enough for us so it's hardly good example.
 
Pexbo said:
I just mean we don't know how he will adapt to the pace of the league. Plenty of players don't. The difference is that everyone knew full well that Fellaini wasn't good enough for us so it's hardly good example.
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Actually most of this forum and our manager thought Fellaini was good enough and could handle "the pace of the league". Premier league proven doesnt mean anything, its just as big a gamble as signing a foreigner
 
Pexbo said:
I just mean we don't know how he will adapt to the pace of the league. Plenty of players don't. The difference is that everyone knew full well that Fellaini wasn't good enough for us so it's hardly good example.
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Isn´t it the case with any player coming to England from abroad?
 
Rozay said:
Just been awardded player of the month in Portugal for the 4th time this season.
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It was a nice birthday present. I think he will win the player of the year award. Matic won the previous year.
 
Sly said:
Isn´t it the case with any player coming to England from abroad?
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True but I also feel good players like good racehorses adapt to any going and situation. The skepticism has been applied to nearly every player coming from the continent.The vast majority have proved themselves good enough.

The other myth is the 'pace of the premiership'. The current good teams and players play the game at the pace they dictate.It's a far more technical league than it was even 4 years ago.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
True but I also feel good players like good racehorses adapt to any going and situation. The skepticism has been applied to nearly every player coming from the continent.The vast majority have proved themselves good enough.

The other myth is the 'pace of the premiership'. The current good teams and players play the game at the pace they dictate.It's a far more technical league than it was even 4 years ago.
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Hey if Charlie Adam "plays" in the premier league...

I absolutely agree with you. When a player is good, he adapts and proves himself. Im very confident Carvalho can play in England and become an important player. The potencial and quality is there and us Sporting fans get the sense that he is indeed a special player (like other Sporting players that came from the Academy and achieved good careers abroad). Even the opinion amongst the rivals is unanimous. He´s a quality and important player for the future in our national team. I´ll be here to follow his career if he does leave us for United.
 
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