I'm not comparing, I'm just going by what FriedClams wrote.
Will Bruno achieve legend status at utd?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
You're comparing apples and oranges. You cannot expect consistent excellence from a player in a (mostly) mid-table side. I can promise you that some of the best United players in history would be every bit as inconsistent with the same circumstances.
Firstly, this is not true. Secondly, none of these teams were anywhere near world class. And the 2021-22 team is arguably the worst United team in the PL era, only matched by the current.
False. He was sensational for the first 18 months.
2019-20 = 20 G/A in 23 apps
2020-21 = 45 G/A in 58 apps
Since then he's had between 24 and 28 G/A per season, which is very good for a player who drops as deep as he does. He's likely to break 30 this season, although not guaranteed of course.
And it's not like Bruno only chills in the attacking third and waits for goals and assists...
Well, the stats show that Bruno has created the most chances pretty much every season since he joined. Not just in the PL, but in the European top leagues too.
Perhaps the issue is that Bruno is the only one creating chances? 3 players creating 50 chances is better than 1 player creating 100. But that is not Bruno's fault. The solution isn't to sell Bruno and ask Donny, Zirkzee and Antony to start creating chances. The solution is to sign more players on Bruno's level.
This discussion has been done to death, but I disagree completely. I can't be arsed to dig up the million stories about current and ex-United players praising Bruno.
Ince was far better player. Carrick wasn’t only factor in league and success, in fact he was minor with regard to other factors, it is the misunderstanding you make. Evra, Vidic came in both of them world class for United and both much bigger factor and much better player. Ronaldo transformed from player with immense potential to sum of his part and best player in world….but yeah Carrick was reason.
You seem like huge Carrick fan and will derail thread. You are entitled to your opinion. I don’t share. Carrick is not legend, neither are others on the list. That is end of my point.
What are you talking about? Carrick carried our midfield by himself a lot of the time.
Mate, it's a bizarre list that makes little sense. As has been pointed out to you by a number of people.
At this point I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is, beyond 'Bruno is rubbish I hate him he'll never be remembered etc etc'
Not when we were any good he didn’t. In fact he was left out for many games in every season. Some of them big games. Go look.
No what has happened is that people have disagreed with players that are on the list. Nothing at all bizarre about list of players who were good but not legends as comparison to Bruno.
You have tried to discredit. It’s what you do, always.
At this point I’m not sure what the point you’re trying to make is other than Bruno is brilliant, he’d walk into any team and is as good as any player that has ever played for us.
Minus the work rate? Do you actually watch Bruno?
I don't need to try to discredit it pal, the list does a good job of that on its own.
I'm not sure what annoys me more... The downplaying of Bruno or the downplaying of great players like Carrick and De Gea in order to suit an agenda.
I just think the expectations at united are and should be higher in terms of achieving legend status
Clearly not true, he played 40+ games in all seasons while Fergie was still around.
I'd put him at or below the tier of van Nistelrooy - important player in United's history during a particular spell, fan favorite and focal point for any success the club has at the time but not a Legend.
He might yet get there if he is part of the team that next wins the league.
He might yet get there if he is part of the team that next wins the league.
He is 100% a United legend and our modern day Bryan Robson. If he can add a Europa cup medal then it further soldifies his legendary status in what has been a poor decade for the club.
So is Robson only a legend because he won 2 league medals at the tail end of his career where he was no longer a regular? Winning the league is not a prerequisite for being a club legend. Bruno has almost single handedly carried this team thru a decade of incompetence. Ruud had the luxury of playing with other club legends and world class talent.
Yes!
What a fecking achievement
stinking the least in huge pile of shit. As club captain he was nothing but a stain, so thats not positive as you think it is, one of most obnoxious QQ player we ever had. Woah two cups, damn give him a statue and you talk about distorted grasp of reality, miss me. Putting him next to true legends would be a disgrace, the end..
I can understand fans being critical of our players. But I don’t understand this hatred.
What a fecking achievement
I can understand fans being critical of our players. But I don’t understand this hatred.
He’s the best signing by far in a tough era for the club.
if he can win a couple more trophies then definitely.
if he can win a couple more trophies then definitely.
His stats are good, but football isn't all about the stats, especially if you are a midfielder. Zidane, Iniesta, Xavi or Modric don't have have great G/A but they are regarded as the best midfielders of all time. For example, Lampard has way better G/A than Scholes but Scholes is generally regarded as a better player.
Stats are much more important for wingers and strikers than for midfielders. Let's take a player like Gerrard. He didn't win EPL with Liverpool but he carried that average Liverpool side to UCL title in 05 and another final in 07. He has won pretty much every title for Liverpool except for EPL. I don't remember Bruno doing anything close to what Gerrard did.
Harry Kane is another example. Even though he didn't win any trophies with Spurs, they became a stable top 4 team and he led them to the UCL final.
If you started watching us after 2011 I can understand why you think Bruno is a legend.
I don’t understand how anyone who saw the decades before that especially 90s and 00s can think he’s a legend.
I don’t understand how anyone who saw the decades before that especially 90s and 00s can think he’s a legend.
There is a lot wrong with this post.
I will just correct the most basic error. In the 4 seasons where both Burno and Kane were in the PL, Man Utd finished above spurs in 3/4 seasons and won a fa cup. Spurs only finished in the CL 1/4 times and didn’t win a trophy. Not necessarily a stable top 4 club.
Weird reference to Robson. It's not about the medals specifically so you're not following my sentiment.
Ruud is not a legend for me. Falls into the great player for United category which is where Bruno is.
If Bruno is part of a team that turns a corner on almost 15 years of struggling for the Club, which to me is capped by winning the league, then he undoubtedly becomes a legend. If not the league medal itself then a consistent series of runner-up medals that were truly competitive and had a shot at the title. So not 10/20+ points behind like with Ole's one season.
But if that never happens with Bruno then I'm not able to put him into Legend status.
You can absolutely have club legends who played during down periods for the club.
Feck legend, Bruno is a GOD!
He's had a lot of criticism, perhaps rightly in recent years. Yet with his performances this year, consistently dragging us out of bad spot after bad spot, I feel he's managed to change that narrative. Many were talking about having him sold.
He's definitely going to be remembered fondly, but he's going to struggle to earn Legend status with us when the club is plummeting and won't win a single thing of note. Currently he won't even be remembered with as much verve as Macheda is. There's nothing legendary enough to associate him with.
He's definitely going to be remembered fondly, but he's going to struggle to earn Legend status with us when the club is plummeting and won't win a single thing of note. Currently he won't even be remembered with as much verve as Macheda is. There's nothing legendary enough to associate him with.
Did you even watch yesterday’s goal?
Safe to say I feel more gratitude for all the enjoyable moments Bruno has brought me, including that assist and performance in the FA Cup final, over Macheda's grand total of 4 career goals for us.
I don’t think there’s a problem with Bruno’s attitude and loyalty, there are several stories of him doing great things behind the scenes at the club and show he loves the club. On the pitch he’s a different type of player true, but it’s not through lack of effort or not caring. He also is constantly fit and available and exemplary professionalism. Robson was probably better but it’s not as big of a gap as that I think, there are similarities of doing well in fallow periods.
No.
Bruno, a player who gives everything every time he steps out on that pitch. A guy that throws his hands in the air because he’s frustrated that we aren’t what or where we should be because he understands what it means to play for this club and the standards we need to set. A guy that makes himself available for almost every single game we play. Who is the sole playmaker and the legs in midfield at the same time. Time after time the guy digging us out of a hole, making things happen and winning us games with some genius moments. Everything that would make him a legend, that he’s already on the way to being one if he’s not already there.
People on here are so quick to jump on our players over a bad performance. It’s super fine margins in football and Bruno plays high risk/high reward. If you try something and it doesn’t come off, well at least we have someone capable and willing to try.
People on here are so quick to jump on our players over a bad performance. It’s super fine margins in football and Bruno plays high risk/high reward. If you try something and it doesn’t come off, well at least we have someone capable and willing to try.
Invest 90 seconds reading some of the post of this particular poster and you know that you don't have to waste time on him. His mind is in the church of Bruno.
I would agree with the start of the sentence and add that I don't even know the 2nd and 4th name and thats after having read a fair bit about United. I personally would also drop Ronaldo from that list. He has been a fantastic player for us and led to great success but he gave his best years to Real and became a legend there. Only shows how subjective this whole topic is (you'd think, it would slow done some of the eagerness in here, but I guess...)
Just stop with the hate stuff Mate. Seriously. If people are dumb enough to not be able to comprehend that other people come to different conclusions and opinions than their own ones, nobody is helped with explaining it with hate.
Another one for the church of Bruno.
Alright noted. Lets see how often it will be repeated from this point onwards.
Because actually all should be said then.I have to agree here. I think Bruno would have thrived during the early 2000s when teams weren't organized and synchronized to the same extent as they are today. I'd say the amount of chaos was much bigger back then and given that Bruno thrives in that, he probably would have racked up very good numbers back then as well. That being said, he probably would have received a few more fouls and rough handling.
Those shall be the
I am not completely aligned with all your points but you certainly have a point here.
I can tell you for sure that it is you specifically (i.e. your posts) that is annoying way more people than you think.
Stop with the hate accusations. You want less hyperbole? Don't accuse other people of ill intentions when you can't comprehend or just don't share their opinions and viewpoints. Those threads become more and more unbearable. If people want to see Bruno as a legend, go for it. But half the posts on here are about trying to patronize others for their wrong opinions.
Seriously - at this point, lets create an alternative performance thread for the guy where only good things are allowed so we can finally stop the same cycles of always the same stuff.
You’ve accused others of being childish for saying that you hate Bruno, yet you call people who back him but don’t even consider him a legend (like me) members of the “church of Bruno”.Invest 90 seconds reading some of the post of this particular poster and you know that you don't have to waste time on him. His mind is in the church of Bruno.
I would agree with the start of the sentence and add that I don't even know the 2nd and 4th name and thats after having read a fair bit about United. I personally would also drop Ronaldo from that list. He has been a fantastic player for us and led to great success but he gave his best years to Real and became a legend there. Only shows how subjective this whole topic is (you'd think, it would slow done some of the eagerness in here, but I guess...)
Just stop with the hate stuff Mate. Seriously. If people are dumb enough to not be able to comprehend that other people come to different conclusions and opinions than their own ones, nobody is helped with explaining it with hate.
Another one for the church of Bruno.
Alright noted. Lets see how often it will be repeated from this point onwards.
I have to agree here. I think Bruno would have thrived during the early 2000s when teams weren't organized and synchronized to the same extent as they are today. I'd say the amount of chaos was much bigger back then and given that Bruno thrives in that, he probably would have racked up very good numbers back then as well. That being said, he probably would have received a few more fouls and rough handling.
Those shall be the108 Commandments of the Church of Bruno.
I am not completely aligned with all your points but you certainly have a point here.
I can tell you for sure that it is you specifically (i.e. your posts) that is annoying way more people than you think.
Stop with the hate accusations. You want less hyperbole? Don't accuse other people of ill intentions when you can't comprehend or just don't share their opinions and viewpoints. Those threads become more and more unbearable. If people want to see Bruno as a legend, go for it. But half the posts on here are about trying to patronize others for their wrong opinions.
Seriously - at this point, lets create an alternative performance thread for the guy where only good things are allowed so we can finally stop the same cycles of always the same stuff.
The saying about glass houses comes to mind.
I agree. It is childish. But look at the last pages. 95% percent is glowing stuff, mostly the same stuff because for whatever reason many people have no issue with writing the exact same things that others have written on at least 16 of those 20 pages but whatever and yet still the group is busy calling supposed haters out. To me, thats not normal backing but whatever, everybody is entitled to do whatever they want but if people (i.e. majorities on here) feel the need to question motives then their motives will be questioned as well.
If it was directed towards the wrong person in your case, excuse me, I certainly didn't want it to feel like a personal attack.
Played the most games out of any player in that 7 year period where United dominated the league.
Regarding Bruno, he has overall been United's best player if we're looking over his entire period at the club. However, he hasn't had a single season where he was clearly the best player in the team. He might be this season, but only because Amad got injured.
He will need to do something special to be considered a legend without winning the PL or the CL. Carrying United to the Europa trophy in these circumstances might be his best chance.
I am an admirer of Bruno’s work rate. But there are thousands out there who attack Bruno for (lack of) it. No one ever did that with Robson.
The reason for the comparison is based solely off your last 9 words…
Not because of their respective abilities, Robson was a far better player than Bruno and it isn’t even close. Italy had the most money and the best teams in the world at the time and wanted Robson, but he stayed with us.
Bruno would never be offered lucrative deals at Real Madrid… that’s the modern day equivalent.
Another example may be that, Robson had 5 Ballon d’Or nominees to Bruno’s 1.
I have respect for Bruno. But he isn’t close to Robson.
Whilst I am inclined to agree with you. You’ve singled out Bruno’s biggest moment as an assist to win the FA cup which isn’t as big of a moment as Macheda basically winning us the league instead of the scousers, with a great last second goal. Macheda for as sh!t as he was is a cult hero.
I don't disagree.
What's your standard exactly for a legend during a down period? How and when would someone like Bruno reach that for you?
There are loads of criteria that can make a player a legend.
Quality of play.
Length of service to the club.
Contributing towards winning things.
Exceptional effort put in over a long time.
Always respecting the club.
Goals certainly help.
Defining moments.
A bunch more as well. I'd say if you have a few of these then you can be viewed as a club legend but it's not an exact equation as some are probably more valuable than others and everyone has to make their own individual assesment.
For me Bruno covers a lot of the criteria to an exceptionally high level.
Precisely.
I can name plenty of United legends of lower quality, workrate, fitness, leadership qualities, professionalism and number of appearances for the club. Picking them out is not even a difficult task.
There is really just one single point where Bruno falls short relative to other legends, and that is big trophies. Is that enough to strip him of the legend status? I don't think so. In fact, I think it's incredibly dumb.