Wilfried Zaha

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Christ you can't say anything on here without upsetting someone!

I just think spending £15m on a player from the Championship is a bit risky, even if the player does look decent. As for Ronaldo I would not have called him an unknown given he played over 30 games for Sporting the previous season at a better standard of football.

Implying you upsetted me...

I was just making a point. Signing Smalling for £12m or whatever after barely a season with Fulham showed value right? So did buying a £8m Hernandez from a considerably low standard Mexican league.

If Fergie thinks he's worth £15m, then who are you to question it. I'm just saying.
 
Diouf, Obertan, Tosic and Manucho are all having decent careers. Diouf is having a stunning season in the German League and Tosic is playing for a Champions League team. They were all cheap punts and were fairly talented. Why the feck are they being included in this Zaha topic I don't know.

Bebe is/was a special case.
 
Typical of you to miss out Hernandez, Fabio and Rafael out of the list. But the thing would look shit with good signings though.

I did miss out on Hernandez - mea culpa - but Fab and Raf date from six years ago.

I'm not assigning blame, but simply pointing out that this particular policy hasn't been a roaring success recently. In the super-competitive, relentlessly scouted, world of modern football, overlooked gems may be harder to find. Our one unqualified success in the transfer market in the last 5/6 years has been a 29 year old.
 
A reminder that SAF went for Hazard and later Lucas Moura unsuccessfully last season (I think we wanted to sign Kagawa and RvP anyway).

Whether Zaha is linked to that or there is a different plan in mind, I don't know. Will be interesting to see what SAF does with him if he gets his man.
 
Basically because we got him during his peak so we haven't had to 'suffer' through his development.. you buy young players you have to be patient and wait until they develop
 
I did miss out on Hernandez - mea culpa - but Fab and Raf date from six years ago.

I'm not assigning blame, but simply pointing out that this particular policy hasn't been a roaring success recently. In the super-competitive, relentlessly scouted, world of modern football, overlooked gems may be harder to find. Our one unqualified success in the transfer market in the last 5/6 years has been a 29 year old.

How does that compare to other teams?
 
I did miss out on Hernandez - mea culpa - but Fab and Raf date from six years ago.

I'm not assigning blame, but simply pointing out that this particular policy hasn't been a roaring success recently. In the super-competitive, relentlessly scouted, world of modern football, overlooked gems may be harder to find. Our one unqualified success in the transfer market in the last 5/6 years has been a 29 year old.

Valencia forgotten?
 
Hernandez hasn't been a success ?

And this season's signings except RVP are still settling in plus over the past few years we have made more long term signings like Smalling, Jones, De Gea, Powell, Henriquez etc.... who will prove their worth as they develop.

Also, Fabio and Rafael qualify in the 5/6 year period.
 
Love the way these threads always have a few people desperate to show off their encyclopaedic knowledge of world football and unmatched talent-spotting ability and understanding of the game.

Come back when you're working as a scout for United?

Kind of like you aching to use big words such as "encyclopaedic."

Hang on? Wait a sec.....e-n-c-y-c-l-o-p-a-e-d-i-c??? You might want to check that one out fella.

It's hardly talent spotting come on....Griezmann is pretty well known as a fine young talent in the Primera Liga. He's not without faults he was recently suspended from the national setup for a year for breaking a curfew.

There's no desperation on my part, you don't agree with my assessment perhaps you could explain where I have gone wrong? Or maybe you would rather just stick to sweeping generalisations of me based on one critique of a player who clearly divides opinion?

Your last quip really is a bit feeble....you surely can do better than that.
 
Nevermind Ronaldo he's not even that highly rated full stop. Honestly it's a split verdict on him with a lot of Journos (counted 5 so far on Sunday Supplement alone that cant see the potential in him) thinking he's nowhere near top 4 standard. His stats (although I know this isn't everything) are pretty shocking considering he's playing second tier football aswell.

Iv said all along that he should follow Victor Moses and join a lower premier league side, if he's good enough he will get a move to a top 4 team. I wouldn't pay £15m for this guy at the moment. For £15m playing in the Championship id be expecting him to be ripping the league apart and he isn't infact some people at palace have been calling for him to be dropped since he made his England debut.

I guess im being harsh on him but Id prefer us to spend the money elsewhere, we were in for Hazard and Lucas in the summer both are 20 times better than this guy. Save the 15m and put it towards a real talent in my opinion.

He is really talented, difference is he plays for crystal palace and we are all aware that's one tier below the EPL. Sorry to be cliché but if he was doing the same thing playing in the Brazilian league for Internacional we wouldn't be so critical. Not every players the same so no point judging him on Victor Moses hype or what Frazier Campbell had achieved in that league at the same age. His far from a finished product but not limited to which you have to question his ability.
 
Kind of like you aching to use big words such as "encyclopaedic."

Hang on? Wait a sec.....e-n-c-y-c-l-o-p-a-e-d-i-c??? You might want to check that one out fella.

It's hardly talent spotting come on....Griezmann is pretty well known as a fine young talent in the Primera Liga. He's not without faults he was recently suspended from the national setup for a year for breaking a curfew.

There's no desperation on my part, you don't agree with my assessment perhaps you could explain where I have gone wrong? Or maybe you would rather just stick to sweeping generalisations of me based on one critique of a player who clearly divides opinion?

Your last quip really is a bit feeble....you surely can do better than that.

The big book can be spelt as encyclopedia or encyclopaedia. Ergo, encyclopedic and encyclopaedic are interchangeable. They're alternate spellings of the same word.

Good point, well made.
 
Valencia forgotten?

Valencia was an established player who cost 17M. I used the word 'punt' in my post. All players are gambles to a degree, but I was talking about buys for modest sums, less than would be expected for a regular United first teamer, in the hope they would develop into such a player.

Hernandez hasn't been a success ?

And this season's signings except RVP are still settling in plus over the past few years we have made more long term signings like Smalling, Jones, De Gea, Powell, Henriquez etc.... who will prove their worth as they develop.

Also, Fabio and Rafael qualify in the 5/6 year period.


Hernandez is not a regular first choice, and probably won't become one. But there's no doubt that his value has appreciated since we bought him, and he was both a bargain, and a good purchase.

Jones and De Gea were bought for big money.

There's no point in speculating about what players might or might not become. I confined my argument to players who were more or less proven or disproven.

Let's not nitpick about the time frame. My point is fairly clear. In recent years, the policy of identifying young 'diamonds in the rough', bringing them to OT for small or modest sums, and growing them into United quality players, has not yielded much gold. That doesn't stop me having great hopes for Powell though.

I know nothing about Zaha, but like some other posters, I'd prefer us to spend bigger and get more proven players. It's not as if we can't afford it.
 
Why are the words "small or.modest sums" even being discussed with regards a transfer that could ultimately cost United a £15mil fee?
 
Valencia was an established player who cost 17M. I used the word 'punt' in my post. All players are gambles to a degree, but I was talking about buys for modest sums, less than would be expected for a regular United first teamer, in the hope they would develop into such a player.




Hernandez is not a regular first choice, and probably won't become one. But there's no doubt that his value has appreciated since we bought him, and he was both a bargain, and a good purchase.

Jones and De Gea were bought for big money.

There's no point in speculating about what players might or might not become. I confined my argument to players who were more or less proven or disproven.

Let's not nitpick about the time frame. My point is fairly clear. In recent years, the policy of identifying young 'diamonds in the rough', bringing them to OT for small or modest sums, and growing them into United quality players, has not yielded much gold. That doesn't stop me having great hopes for Powell though.

I know nothing about Zaha, but like some other posters, I'd prefer us to spend bigger and get more proven players. It's not as if we can't afford it.


So as per you we should have a established first 11 and then nothing outside that ? Or just academy players ?

Hernandez has certainly been a success and he was first choice for a decent while too. And we buy young players with potential to start as squad players and hopefully develop them as first teamers.
 
People are probably forgetting that Valencia, Nani and Young are all in either in, or heading directly into their primes. Zaha is a good acquisition not only to bolster ranks now and give competition to squad places that are far from tied down currently, but also for the future where he may very well be a starter.
 
How does that compare to other teams?

Looking at other top teams:

The sugar daddy clubs, City, and to a lesser degree, Chelsea, tend to go for the finished article. Real Madrid the same.

Barca rely on their own academy, but when they enter the transfer market, it's usually for top, proven talent.

I don't know what Bayern do.

Arsenal follow our policy, and frequently compete with us for the same players - Ramsey, Smalling, Oxlade Chamberlain, Zaha.... But clearly they haven't enjoyed much success in recent years.
 
Arsenal just declare interest in players to keep their fans happy these days.
 
We missed out on three highly-rated British offensive players from lower divisions in the last few years: Bale, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain. One of them would be a star at United now and the other two turned out quite good as well, which leads me to believe that Zaha could be a success as well.

If we end up paying £15m it'll be based on add-ons in at least 30%. We won't go above £10m mark up front, we usually do this kind of deal based on installments.
 
Implying you upsetted me...

I was just making a point. Signing Smalling for £12m or whatever after barely a season with Fulham showed value right? So did buying a £8m Hernandez from a considerably low standard Mexican league.

If Fergie thinks he's worth £15m, then who are you to question it. I'm just saying.

I'm not questioning Fergie, I just think £15m is a bit of a gamble. Smalling & Hernandez carried less risk imo
 
I'm not believing an of this till I see a youtube video titled 'Welcome to Manchester United' which has the same thing as a top rated comment.
 
My Palace supporting mate reckons he's the real deal and will become a world beater.

My mate also said that Zaha is being double and sometimes triple marked most games these days.
 
I'm not sure we need another Welbeck type player. Not a huge fan of those type of players to begin with. Reported fee is huge as it always is for English talent. Doesn't always pay off. I'm afraid we're replacing too many established players for prospects who no one knows how they'll turn out.
 
We missed out on three highly-rated British offensive players from lower divisions in the last few years: Bale, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain. One of them would be a star at United now and the other two turned out quite good as well, which leads me to believe that Zaha could be a success as well.

If we end up paying £15m it'll be based on add-ons in at least 30%. We won't go above £10m mark up front, we usually do this kind of deal based on installments.

They were age 17,16 and 17 when they made the move. They were more like insanely talented youth players. Zaha is 20 already. I don't really see those three players being analogous to Zaha for the purpose of your argument.
 
I'm not believing an of this till I see a youtube video titled 'Welcome to Manchester United' which has the same thing as a top rated comment.

Nothing on CaughtOffside as of yet. I'm still calling bullshit on this.
 
Wow, there are a lot Zaha experts 'round here all of a sudden.
 
Wow, there are a lot Zaha experts 'round here all of a sudden.

Yep loving the comments from people who've watched twice or thrice and then acting like fecking experts.
 
I'm not sure we need another Welbeck type player. Not a huge fan of those type of players to begin with. Reported fee is huge as it always is for English talent. Doesn't always pay off. I'm afraid we're replacing too many established players for prospects who no one knows how they'll turn out.

I've only seen him a couple of times but that was enough to say that he is nothing like Welbeck really.
 
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