Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

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That's not what you said, you said that he definitely will never find another chance for him if he doesnt play against Norwich, absolutely stupid comment and the fact your are trying to clarify it makes you look more stupid
I never said the word definitely. Don't make up something to suit your side against mine, that's just poor form.

I said, "if he doesn't play in this game, he never will".

I backed that up after by saying obviously he will, it was just a saying. Stop just looking at the words and actually put them into context. Of course he will play, I was making a point that surely he will feature in this game. If people can't see that, well that will do me.
 
Again, you're missing the saying. People took that way too seriously.

If Moyes can't find a place for him in this game, when will he?


Clutching at straws instead of just admitting that your post was just on the wee bit side of ridiculous? ;)

Moyes wants to give game time to Welbeck, Nani, Valencia, Young, Januzaj, Kagawa, all of whom are playing out wide at the moment. Finding game time for Zaha isn't all that easy. Kagawa should get more chances, hopefully as a number ten against Norwich. Young or Welbeck or Januzaj will probably start on the left :mad: and Nani or Valencia on the right. United's squad is huge, and Ferguson was an expert on keeping players happy (bar the sulking Rooney that is). That is something Moyes will have to learn.
 
There is no plausible reason for a fit Zaha not to feature at home against Norwich in the league cup with the current form of our wide men.


What about giving our underperforming wide men a chance to gain some form? Seems plausible to me.

Worst signing ever. Lol Australians.
 
What about giving our underperforming wide men a chance to gain some form? Seems plausible to me.

Worst signing ever. Lol Australians.
So Zaha shouldn't be given the chance to get 30 seconds at the end of the game?

People, lets stop reading the text in a forum sense. Pretend we are at a pub, sitting there having a few beers. I say if Moyes can't find room for him in this game, he never will.

Does that mean I am dead serious and Zaha will be off next week? No, it's just a saying.

Did I say he was our worst ever signing? No

I made the hypothetical point that if a player cost 10-15 million and never made an appearance for that club, it would be a bad signing.

I never said this was a bad signing, it's a great signing in my opinion, however people can't see the hypothetical point I made.
 
I want Zaha to feature against Norwich, and I'd be ever so slightly annoyed if he doesn't. That said, I do find it understandable if Valencia and/or Nani are picked ahead of him. He should get game time in the last 20-30 minutes, but that depends whether we are leading or down 2-1, as looks to be the norm these days.

I'm more pissed that Fabio isn't getting game time. That just doesn't make sense. Smalling ahead of Fabio at right back:wenger:
 
So Zaha shouldn't be given the chance to get 30 seconds at the end of the game?

People, lets stop reading the text in a forum sense. Pretend we are at a pub, sitting there having a few beers. I say if Moyes can't find room for him in this game, he never will.

Does that mean I am dead serious and Zaha will be off next week? No, it's just a saying.

Did I say he was our worst ever signing? No

I made the hypothetical point that if a player cost 10-15 million and never made an appearance for that club, it would be a bad signing.

I never said this was a bad signing, it's a great signing in my opinion, however people can't see the hypothetical point I made.


Yeah, that 30 seconds at the end of the game is really going to define whether he's the next Hernandez or the next Andy Carroll in terms of best or worst transfers ever.

I get that you weren't being overly serious, and yes, if you were in a pub and said "If he doesn't play vs Norwich he'll never play", I wouldn't take issue. I get what you're saying.

However if we were in a pub and said "Struth, I say Brucey, if that young whipper-snapper Zaha kid doesn't get a fair crack of the whip versus Norwich in the league cup, then I say he's got to be considered one of the worst bits of business ever, eh Brucey" - then yes, I would take the piss out of you for being hysterical.

I think that's the phrase that has got people on your case, and yet in your subsequent half dozen or so posts defending yourself, you haven't actually addressed that point at all. You big drama queen.
 
Yeah, that 30 seconds at the end of the game is really going to define whether he's the next Hernandez or the next Andy Carroll in terms of best or worst transfers ever.

I get that you weren't being overly serious, and yes, if you were in a pub and said "If he doesn't play vs Norwich he'll never play", I wouldn't take issue. I get what you're saying.

However if we were in a pub and said "Struth, I say Brucey, if that young whipper-snapper Zaha kid doesn't get a fair crack of the whip versus Norwich in the league cup, then I say he's got to be considered one of the worst bits of business ever, eh Brucey" - then yes, I would take the piss out of you for being hysterical.

I think that's the phrase that has got people on your case, and yet in your subsequent half dozen or so posts defending yourself, you haven't actually addressed that point at all. You big drama queen.
That's the thing though, I never said that phrase, I only made the first point.
 
I never said the word definitely. Don't make up something to suit your side against mine, that's just poor form.

I said, "if he doesn't play in this game, he never will".

I backed that up after by saying obviously he will, it was just a saying. Stop just looking at the words and actually put them into context. Of course he will play, I was making a point that surely he will feature in this game. If people can't see that, well that will do me.

So what you mean, is don't take you so literally? I think the better suggestion should be learn to exlain yourself a bit better...
 
Again, context. It was the point of any club spending big money on a player who ends up never featuring.
 
I think a January loan will be the best thing for Zaha.

Going back to palace might be for the best to give him some confidence and getting used to PL defenders.
 
So what you mean, is don't take you so literally? I think the better suggestion should be learn to exlain yourself a bit better...
Maybe I should have explained it better but really, it didn't need explaining. It was a one off line that one person took seriously and ended up turning this page into a shit storm.
 
Your own fault though. If you're going to say stupid stuff then don't try to defend yourself to the hilt when people point out how stupid you sound.
 
Jesus wept. Sometimes it's ok to admit that you're making a bit of an arse of yourself.
I am off to call it a night soon (Sydney time) but I will try once more.

I made a one off line, that should never have been taken seriously.

I then clarified it by saying it was hypothetical and in reference to the situation, not specific to Zaha.

Ask the few that know me on here, I am the first to admit when I am wrong but me joking that Zaha will never play if he doesn't play this week isn't that bad.
 
My mates brother went to that "An audience with Phil Neville" thing a bit back that was at the Bishops Blaize. He was asked about Zaha and said something along the lines of that he was given special treatment at Palace. That he would often be late for training and then not train particularly well. He said that when he first came to the club he was giving his all but that it didn't take long for him to fall back into old habits.

He didn't say that was the reason for his lack of action, but reading between the lines you'd have to say it's likely to be connected.
 
So sort of like Morrison. I don't get these professionals, you're at one of the greatest clubs in the world, even if you're in the championship, you've got one of the greatest jobs in the world so how hard is it to give it your all?
 
Which matches have they been poor in? I'd say Nani was awful in one fixture. Valencia was poor in two fixtures (Crystal Palace and City).

Which matches have they been performing well in? I didn't think Nani performed to a great standard in any of the four league fixtures he's played in, but at least he has the excuse of not having a pre-season. While I can only really Valencia performing well against Stoke, bits of Sunderland and against Leverkusen.

If both have had there wouldn't have been a great deal of chopping and changing and Januzaj wouldn't be pretty much guaranteed a spot in the side despite his tender age.
 
My mates brother went to that "An audience with Phil Neville" thing a bit back that was at the Bishops Blaize. He was asked about Zaha and said something along the lines of that he was given special treatment at Palace. That he would often be late for training and then not train particularly well. He said that when he first came to the club he was giving his all but that it didn't take long for him to fall back into old habits.

He didn't say that was the reason for his lack of action, but reading between the lines you'd have to say it's likely to be connected.

Would also explain why he's linked with a loan to several different clubs, but not Palace.
 
So sort of like Morrison. I don't get these professionals, you're at one of the greatest clubs in the world, even if you're in the championship, you've got one of the greatest jobs in the world so how hard is it to give it your all?


If all that stuff is true, then the problem lies with giving him the special treatment to be allowed to slack off without repercussion in the first place. If Palace let him get away with cruising in and playing by his own rules, then he'll just keep doing it, and bad habits die hard. Nurturing talent is one thing, but instilling a work ethic into a player who already thinks he's a total playboy before he's even made it is probably a mountain to climb.

He's got the talent to be a very good player, but if this stuff is true, then he's also got the right kind of mentality to blow it.
 
Which matches have they been performing well in? I didn't think Nani performed to a great standard in any of the four league fixtures he's played in, but at least he has the excuse of not having a pre-season. While I can only really Valencia performing well against Stoke, bits of Sunderland and against Leverkusen.


Sociedad too, but I don't know if that should count, since their left back was non-existent.
 
Clutching at straws instead of just admitting that your post was just on the wee bit side of ridiculous? ;)

Moyes wants to give game time to Welbeck, Nani, Valencia, Young, Januzaj, Kagawa, all of whom are playing out wide at the moment. Finding game time for Zaha isn't all that easy. Kagawa should get more chances, hopefully as a number ten against Norwich. Young or Welbeck or Januzaj will probably start on the left :mad: and Nani or Valencia on the right. United's squad is huge, and Ferguson was an expert on keeping players happy (bar the sulking Rooney that is). That is something Moyes will have to learn.
Hopefully he'll learn quickly but I have my doubts about that.

Kagawa is not a winger although he can play there. Young has been poor when he has played anywhere recently, Valencia ia a shadow of his former self and some fans seem determined to try and destroy Nani's confidence (obviously not in United's interest) so he might as well give Zaha a chance. It's time to let the lad play.
 
Which matches have they been performing well in? I didn't think Nani performed to a great standard in any of the four league fixtures he's played in, but at least he has the excuse of not having a pre-season. While I can only really Valencia performing well against Stoke, bits of Sunderland and against Leverkusen.

If both have had there wouldn't have been a great deal of chopping and changing and Januzaj wouldn't be pretty much guaranteed a spot in the side despite his tender age.

Valencia has performed well in most matches this season. He's certainly not been at his best, but he tends to get better as the season moves on. His poorest games have come against Manchester City and Crystal Palace. Nani hasn't been great, but that's not what I was debating. I said he's played well. He's been consistently good and should have a few assists if our players knew how to finish. Nani performed well vs. Liverpool. His touch was off, but he still managed to get a shot on target (and almost scored) and played a good ball to Hernandez, who laid off Van Persie. He was excellent against West Brom, his best match this season. He was decent vs. Sunderland. His crossing was off, but it was his directness and skill that contributed to Januzaj scoring the winner. He was decent vs. Southampton, put in a couple of very good balls, but was let down by finishing. Neither one of these players has performed great, but they've done well. I think most should be pleased about both, especially Nani whose shown more intelligence this season. With the exception of the last match, he's not really gone into poor decision making mode. He's mixed things up. I've certainly been pleased with Valencia. His right back performance vs. Stoke was much needed. He was excellent vs. Real Sociedad, too. In fact, he's only had a couple of poor performances, but I think he's starting to regain confidence, evident by his dribbling in the last two games.

We'll see, but our wings are fine at the moment. It's just that there is no cohesion in the team. Individuals are winning us games. I certainly disagree with the chopping and changing argument. Nani wasn't involved in the first few games because of lack of match fitness, his touch was off in the Liverpool game. He's been involved in the last few PL games, he's started the last four, which suggests Moyes likes what he's currently getting, though obviously there's more to come.
 
The crux of it is we signed Kagawa to play in the hole and then ended up having RvP as well. Rooney was likely on his way out and bound to be replaced by Kagawa. Nani wasn't signing. All our wingers were shit. You would have expected Januzaj to take longer...

Zaha was a sound signing, but we ended up keeping the players we wanted to keep, and have had Januzaj performing quicker than expected. They are all actually good things for the club, just not great for Zaha right now.

Moyes is right to prioritise getting the team right before bothering with keeping him happy. Come January, if he is not looking like playing he should go on loan for the rest of the season. No biggie.
 
If Moyes can't find a place for him in this game, when will he?


I can see where you're coming from, but the kid is 20 years old. He will get a game somewhere even if he doesn't make the Norwich game. They actually can be a tricky side, and I can imagine Moyes would want to push hard for every trophy in his first season. I wouldn't worry about Zaha's future if he doesn't play, he was used a lot in pre season so clearly Moyes sees something in him.

Also, Eric were you writing for the Mirror?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-team-news-moyes-2650214

Special mention to Zaha deserving a chance on wednesday
 
Hopefully he'll learn quickly but I have my doubts about that.

Kagawa is not a winger although he can play there. Young has been poor when he has played anywhere recently, Valencia ia a shadow of his former self and some fans seem determined to try and destroy Nani's confidence (obviously not in United's interest) so he might as well give Zaha a chance. It's time to let the lad play.


I don't disagree, but it isn't easy to just let him play. There are many other players who need game time also. Valencia has at least shown a bit mroe promise lately, and a bit more consistency at that also. Young is abysmal. Kagawa isn't a winger, but he isn't given game time in the number ten position either. Zaha should get a look in at Norwich, but it's not as if it's a given.
 
My mates brother went to that "An audience with Phil Neville" thing a bit back that was at the Bishops Blaize. He was asked about Zaha and said something along the lines of that he was given special treatment at Palace. That he would often be late for training and then not train particularly well. He said that when he first came to the club he was giving his all but that it didn't take long for him to fall back into old habits.

He didn't say that was the reason for his lack of action, but reading between the lines you'd have to say it's likely to be connected.

The "it's important that Wilf understands how things work here" that Moyes has repeated every time he's mentioned him always hinted at his lack of playing time having more to do with him settling in as a United player than any hesitance about his ability to do the business on the pitch, I think.
 
I feel sorry for him. He's obviously a talent but he's very raw too and with the upheaval at the club at the moment he's probably considered a risk too far. Someone like Adnan, who is a much clever and mature player, is easier to take the chance on. Hopefully a bit of first team football for a PL team will bring him along nicely.
 
Valencia has performed well in most matches this season. He's certainly not been at his best, but he tends to get better as the season moves on. His poorest games have come against Manchester City and Crystal Palace. Nani hasn't been great, but that's not what I was debating. I said he's played well. He's been consistently good and should have a few assists if our players knew how to finish. Nani performed well vs. Liverpool. His touch was off, but he still managed to get a shot on target (and almost scored) and played a good ball to Hernandez, who laid off Van Persie. He was excellent against West Brom, his best match this season. He was decent vs. Sunderland. His crossing was off, but it was his directness and skill that contributed to Januzaj scoring the winner. He was decent vs. Southampton, put in a couple of very good balls, but was let down by finishing. Neither one of these players has performed great, but they've done well. I think most should be pleased about both, especially Nani whose shown more intelligence this season. With the exception of the last match, he's not really gone into poor decision making mode. He's mixed things up. I've certainly been pleased with Valencia. His right back performance vs. Stoke was much needed. He was excellent vs. Real Sociedad, too. In fact, he's only had a couple of poor performances, but I think he's starting to regain confidence, evident by his dribbling in the last two games.

We'll see, but our wings are fine at the moment. It's just that there is no cohesion in the team. Individuals are winning us games. I certainly disagree with the chopping and changing argument. Nani wasn't involved in the first few games because of lack of match fitness, his touch was off in the Liverpool game. He's been involved in the last few PL games, he's started the last four, which suggests Moyes likes what he's currently getting, though obviously there's more to come.


I'd say we have different definitions of what counts as "performing well". I'd say both Nani and Valencia have been performing average at best and the couple of abject performances have happened in the midst of the few matches they have played. There is an argument that they need more time to get into the swing of things but it would be be a bit much to say they have played well based on 1 or 2 nice passes that lead to the odd chance during a game.

I think Nani and Valencia are the ones most likely to deliver especially as the season goes on but I disagree completely that they have performed well least to the standard that you would expect from a top 4 side, let alone last season's Champions.
 
Moyes has suggested that he may go out on loan in January.

Wilfried Zaha: Manchester United may let winger leave on loan
Manchester United manager David Moyes says winger Wilfried Zaha may leave on loan in January.
After joining for £15m in January, Zaha was loaned back to Crystal Palace and has not featured in the Premier League for United this season.
"We have to try to make sure he gets some playing time," Moyes told the United club website.
Wilfried Zaha

  • Born: 10 November 1992
  • Position: Winger/striker
  • Club career: Crystal Palace, Manchester United
  • Professional debut: v Cardiff (27 March 2010)
  • Appearances: 142
  • Goals: 18
  • England Under-19 caps: 2
  • England Under-21 caps: 12
  • England caps: 2
"Unfortunately, we haven't done that with Wilf and, if it's still the case in January, we would look at it."
Dave Webb, the scout who discovered Zaha playing parks football in south London at the age of 13, has urged United to send him out on loan.
Moyes said: "I told him we would try to get him minutes but in the wide areas we have Nani, Antonio Valencia, Ashley Young, Adnan Januzaj and even Shinji Kagawa.
"We are as strong there as anywhere. It's not that Wilf has done anything wrong; it's just that we have big competition.
"He is very much in my plans and in my thoughts all the time. We don't want to put him in too quickly.
"I've said I would look at it in January as I wanted to have him here for six months to see how we work."
Moyes added that Zaha is in contention for a starting place in Tuesday's League Cup clash with Norwich City.

Hope he gets a run out tonight
 
I feel sorry for him. He's obviously a talent but he's very raw too and with the upheaval at the club at the moment he's probably considered a risk too far. Someone like Adnan, who is a much clever and mature player, is easier to take the chance on. Hopefully a bit of first team football for a PL team will bring him along nicely.

Tend to agree. Moyes has enough on his plate at the moment without the added headache of managing the introduction of a chancy player.

For Zaha the timing could hardly have been worse. If Adnan had disappointed he'd have had a better chance.
 
All the best to him tonight. Hopefully doesn't try and do too much.
 
Super first half. Didn't seem to be involved much in the 2nd half. Don't see the point of substituting him when we were 2-0 up.

Not sure we have room for him but he did enough to merit some opportunities before the new year.
 
Yeah he faded away in the 2nd half but it was encouraging stuff in the 1st. Loan would do him good.
 
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