Yeah so did I, but then a mod wanted to bring Januzaj into discussion so who are we to question him.
Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace
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Yeah so did I, but then a mod wanted to bring Januzaj into discussion so who are we to question him.
It annoys me because it's normally at the expense of being negative about players who've done more for the club and are being written off. And in some instances simply because they are somebody new. In this case Valencia is the one suffering. Saying he's already better than him based on pre season games against teams thrown together for a game is fecking retarded.
We have no idea how Valencia will turn out yet this season, perhaps he may decide to become the old, effective and ruthless Valencia again. The way i see it, he's still a first team player really. The left wing slot is up for anybody's grab
Both wing slots are up for grabs even if that means that Januzaj and Lingard will fight to take it (I'm not for a minute saying they will).
The point is, neither Nani nor Valencia have a divine right to either side, the same way that Rooney doesn't have the divine right for the number 9 role. Those places are up to be challenged for and I welcome Zaha and the youngsters to fight to win those places.
Whoever performs best should be taking it.
Yes, no one has a divine right to start a game unless you are Patrice or RvP. But what i'm saying is, Valencia will start at Swansea on opening day
Is Valencia currently injured or just absent due to international duty?
If Valencia plays anything like he did last season then the best teenager at the club can surely do better so it's not "fecking retarded". I bet the guy so said that, if someone did, wasn't talking about them as players I'm general but rather in relation to what we saw last season.
With regards to getting carried away, it's good to be positive. Expectations are going to be on the kid anyway. He's at Manchester United. Pressure is part of it. Getting overly excited about a young player and writing him off on the basis of those high expectations are not necessarily correlated. It's rather harsh on posters to expect them to say he's crap later just because they're very excited about him now.
If is the most important word in that whole post. If he plays like he's proven he's capable of then he's better than Zaha currently who has yet to prove feck all and using one and a half games to state he's better than Valencia us fecking retarded. Simple. You can get excited about a player without having to rubbish another who has been a good player for the club.
If anyone, whoever it is, has a poor season it's perfectly reasonable to say so. It's not disloyal, and it doesn't mean you don't hope for it to be temporary, it's just dealing with facts as they are. Anything less leads to Rawkish Liverpool head-in-the-sand degeneracy.
And calling people fecking retarded for having a view is, er, fecking retarded.
And calling people fecking retarded for having a view is, er, fecking retarded.
But it's not fair to assume that everyone doing one is also doing the other. I tend to find myself on the 'positive' side of both those arguments. I think Zaha is going to be a fantastic player, but I also think last season was just a blip for Valencia. He showed signs of emerging from it in the last month or so, and I reckon he's going to come out firing this season. The new manager honeymoon effect can only help too.
Get annoyed by people doing the negative thing, but don't have a go at people rating our youngsters just because you assume that means they're being negative about current first-choice players.
That's why I said normally and not always. This thread has had examples of it and there were plenty in the match day thread too. The people I'm having a go at are those that have to criticise one player when talking up another. That should have been obvious from what I said in my post.
It's fine to say a player has a bad season. There's a reason the post didn't say 'anyone saying Valencia had a bad season is a fecking retard'. Thinking a player is better than somebody who has had 3 out of four very good seasons at our club after one and a half games is however.
Your last sentence is ridiculous. If somebody has the view that the world is flat is that not retarded?
Normally is harsh. The majority of people in this thread and the Januzaj thread are just getting excited about young talents. Only a very few are criticising current players unfairly.
Agree Tony has been our player of the year ok last season was poor but 1st two he was superb.
A lot of people will see Valencia as he was last season and its hard to begrudge them that right. It was a full season after all. No guarantees he'll return to the player he was. Personally I think he will but its okay if people still view him as the player he was last season because he it was hardly 10 games of being shit. It was a full season, week in week out. So comparing them "as things stand" is not totally nuts of anything.
I don't see who is rubbishing Valencia either? He just has to live with fans not thinking the highest of him right now which is fair enough because his performances only can change that perception.
I would consider saying a player who has never played at the top level is better off the back of one and a half friendlies to be rubbishing him. That's just me.
Valencia is still ahead of Zaha for me and easily, this is pre-season after all, as good as the youngsters have been performing, the "real" football is another beast altogether. At first at least, Valencia is still a starter for me, Zaha has the potential to snatch and nail that wing position.
You're one step away from bringing Nazi Germany into it matey, try and stick to football.
As for football I wouldn't be surprised at all if Zaha claims Valencia's place quite quickly. He's 20 not 17, with over a hundred first-team games and a championship player of the year trophy in his cupboard. And he looks very promising indeed.
This may be preseason, but last season wasn't preseason and Zaha was clearly the superior player of the two.
On current form Zaha is the better player by some distance.
That may be true, however Zaha was playing in the Championship. Valencia was poor last season however put him in the Championship and he'd have probably ripped it apart. By the same token, Zaha would've found it a lot harder last season to be as good as he was in the Championship if he'd been in the Premier League.
Though the Premier League is certainly a tougher test of a player, Valencia's performances last season represented the mark of a player appearing as being in sharp decline. Zaha on the other hand was the Championship's POTY at the age of nineteen/twenty; he looks very similar in ability to Ronaldo at that age, and for me even the 04/05 Ronaldo was better than the present day Valencia. It's impossible to know for sure, but personally I think Zaha would have outshone Valencia during 12/13 whatever league they were playing in. Fortunately we'll very soon find out which of Zaha or Valencia is the better player.
Unfortunately, not only Valencia is out of his game. Young's injury streak is regularly keeping him away from the first team while Nani is a riddle.
Welbeck may step up to the winger role but Zaha's early impact seems inevitable, right now. Of course there's possibility of pursuing a new player but it's the story for another forum.
Welbeck may step up to the winger role but Zaha's early impact seems inevitable, right now. Of course there's possibility of pursuing a new player but it's the story for another forum.
Of course Valencia still remains the stand-out first choice. But, if he doesn't hit the ground running after admitting he was poor last season, players like Zaha will be there to take opportunities.
It's a World Cup year too and he may well have his eyes set on a place in that squad, and as I see it only Walcott is a shoe in for a spot on the wings, because I don't see Milner playing anywhere near as much at City this season not to mention the fact he is absolute dog shit.
Big year for Zaha, could really make a name for himself.
It's a World Cup year too and he may well have his eyes set on a place in that squad, and as I see it only Walcott is a shoe in for a spot on the wings, because I don't see Milner playing anywhere near as much at City this season not to mention the fact he is absolute dog shit.
Big year for Zaha, could really make a name for himself.
Only stupid and not fecking retarded? I consider myself honoured. Amused too of course, I'm almost sorry you're headed the right way.
All his touches against A-league all stars for those who missed the game.
That Januzaj pass at the end
That Januzaj pass at the end
Where was Zaha playing again ? Be realistic ciderman, we won't know for sure how good he is and who he's better than until the season starts. Many footballers (not saying Zaha is just to be clear) can look like in championship levels and pre season but the top top divisions are something else entirely.
Granted, but then some talents stand out no matter what division division they're playing in. Wilfried Zaha is one of these players.
It's a new manager and he will pick who he thinks is the most ready to play. Given the absence so far and for various reasons of the other 3 wingers, Zaha might start off the season in pole position since he is actually playing and looking good.
Zaha will be unpredictable both on the field and with his progression as a united player. I thought he would be all awkward and bambi legs like Welbeck but I think he could be more productive than many think he will be. That pace and those Ronniesque step overs will get us a few penalties at least this year.
I really can't see how Zaha can be behind Valencia and Young right now. I'd honestly view them all on similar ground with Zaha actually slightly ahead based purely on the fact he's on the tour and they're not. Valencia's season last year does not merit him a starting place whatsoever and if Zaha keeps doing well I would think come the start of the season he should be given a run out. The only reason I would think this won't happen is if Moyes takes a cautious approach and works Zaha in to the team slowly.
I think the fact both Valencia and Young have been established Premier League wingers for 5 or 6 seasons, Zaha is behind them for now. However if he takes his chances, he'll merit a place above them.
Young has had his moments over the years, was quite notable in England qualifying for the Euros in 2012, decent for Villa albeit inconsistent at times...but was fairly central to the team not too far away from the top 4.
Valencia seems to have a season of brilliance followed by a season of injuries/unluckiness/shitness.
Zaha has it all to do, and rightly so. Look forward to him taking the challenge and making a name for himself.
We've certainly lacked a bit of raw pace at times, I can see him playing a pretty big role for us if he hits the ground running.
However, our very tricky first 6 fixtures or so will probably mean that the more established players like Nani will start the season out wide.
However, our very tricky first 6 fixtures or so will probably mean that the more established players like Nani will start the season out wide.
Is Nani staying now?
I have no idea, so yes.
Looked more like a player that had a sharp drop in confidence. Watch him for Ecuador and there's no sign of any decline whatsoever - he would piss on the Championship playing like that.
Regardless, next year he will be challenged for his spot and he won't get away with a repeat performance. A Nani that was banned from playing and an injured/mediocre Young didn't exactly provide a decent kick up the arse, but with Zaha and hopefully Nani we'll be healthier on the wings this time round.
Was really impressed with this kid against the A league. Look dangerous most of the time he got on the ball. Really hope he can pull the same things off against defenders in the premier league.
Zaha and Nani on the wings does great things for my ears.
I think Nani would become more consistent with regular football and although he is raw, Zaha will create all types of problems.
Valencia and Young as back-up.
I think Nani would become more consistent with regular football and although he is raw, Zaha will create all types of problems.
Valencia and Young as back-up.
I feel "Let's not get carried" is less irritating than the use of formations in every other post or the use hyperbole to describe everything.
Zaha is young and he needs time. He doesn't look better than Nani, Valencia or Young at this stage. He looks like someone, who has talent to become a top player. He shouldn't be the first name on the team sheet next season already.
So yeah, lets not carried away. Let's give him time to adjust to the league and prove himself.
Zaha is young and he needs time. He doesn't look better than Nani, Valencia or Young at this stage. He looks like someone, who has talent to become a top player. He shouldn't be the first name on the team sheet next season already.
So yeah, lets not carried away. Let's give him time to adjust to the league and prove himself.
It does no one a service to be carried away with optimism. Zaha has the potential to nail that right wing but he'll have to earn as from the start (and specially the tough opening 5-6 fixtures) Moyes will probably trust more experienced wingers.
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