Wilfried Zaha - Sold to Crystal Palace

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Blodssvik said:
Did he prove anything we didn't already know? We already knew he was talented. Question is if he can step it up. The championship is more competitive than these friendlies so my doubts remain. If preseason was a good sample we'd still have Chris Eagles.
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Same can be said for Jesse Lingard, United fans still :drool: at his backwards and sideways passes in last seasons friendlies.

Fact is though, Zaha as more talent in his little toe than Jesse Lingard has in his whole body, so what's the difference? Maybe Zaha's just got one of those faces like Danny Welbeck where people find any reason to hate on him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If we do send him on loan, we need to think long and hard about where we send him. What about Everton?
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I like that idea a lot. Zaha needs to go to a stable environment with a manager who can nurture young talent like Martinez. He could be a loan replacement for Deulofeu.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Same can be said for Jesse Lingard, United fans still :drool: at his backwards and sideways passes in last seasons friendlies.

Fact is though, Zaha as more talent in his little toe than Jesse Lingard has in his whole body, so what's the difference? Maybe Zaha's just got one of those faces like Danny Welbeck where people find any reason to hate on him.
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Ermm.. Isn't it more likely they were impressed by the brilliant goals?

You know, this sort of thing.



Did Zaha get many great goals in pre-season last year? Did he score any last night?
 
Not sure it qualifies as great.

Anyway, I certainly wouldn't argue Zaha was poor in pre-season last summer. I actually think he looked like a real talent. Reminiscent of Obertan a few summers previously. Which is why I agree that you shouldn't get carried away by form in pre-season games. I just object to the idea that people thought Lingard did well because he passed sideways and backwards a lot. As for Zaha, he hasn't even hit the peaks he did last summer. Looked a better player then than he does now.
 
Your not one of those who thinks goals make a fantastic player are you?

Lingards overall play on the tour was backwards and sideways, scoring 4th or 5th goal against Kitchee (you know plumbers/icecream men and bricklayers) or Cerezo Osaka is nothing to get excited about and for me, doesn't make him a top prospect because of that, i like to look at what players do for minutes on the pitch besides that.

As for Zaha hitting the peaks of last summer, again he's played 45mins, you are judging a lot in those 45mins, his first competitive game time since what, April last year?

Maybe judge him after 200-250mins of football and compare those minutes to last pre-season then.
 
I thought he did well when he came on. Looked very lively up top.
 
Zoo said:
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Not sure about "cup of tea" comments, he is a nobody in terms of playing status etc..
But I do agree with this, maybe he was isolated for wrong reasons under Moyes - at least that's what he thinks.

“He’ll tell you exactly how he wants it,” said Zaha. “He won’t beat about the bush or not tell you anything. That helps you instead of isolating you or just not telling you. He’ll let you know exactly where you are and what you are doing wrong.”
 
Acknowledging his tendency to over-elaborate is a good sign. LVG really does seem to be hands on in actively improving players' games, which is refreshing.

I had to nervously laugh at the "it's not as much running as being a winger, so I'll take it" comment though.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Your not one of those who thinks goals make a fantastic player are you?

Lingards overall play on the tour was backwards and sideways, scoring 4th or 5th goal against Kitchee (you know plumbers/icecream men and bricklayers) or Cerezo Osaka is nothing to get excited about and for me, doesn't make him a top prospect because of that, i like to look at what players do for minutes on the pitch besides that.

As for Zaha hitting the peaks of last summer, again he's played 45mins, you are judging a lot in those 45mins, his first competitive game time since what, April last year?

Maybe judge him after 200-250mins of football and compare those minutes to last pre-season then.
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I'm sorry, thats just funny to me. Its not as if goals are the object of a football match..
 
“I am used to being a winger but if a manager wants me to adapt to a new position, then I will have to – and I don’t mind. To be honest, it’s not as much running as being a winger, so I will take it,”

FFS. He's a bit of an idiot isn't he?
 
NoWinNoFee said:
I like the way all the opinions have changed in 45mins and everyone is an expert on him all of a sudden.

Yesterday he was a waste of space, zero talent, bad workrate, bad decision making, plus a load of other crap.

End of the day the guy has a unique talent, single-handedly got Palace promoted the year before we signed him and has always had an end product, end product has always been one of his strong points, putting the ball in the box always bang on the money.

He's one of the most exciting young players in English football, this is highlighted by his performances for Palace and England under 21's, start seeing things through your own eyeballs rather than seeing what Dave Sprout as to say about him in the Mail on Sunday and recycling that shite on here.
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Spot on. Forums eh....80% previous to 45 mins of football generally negative. Now the opposite. I must have 15 alerts when I said it was too soon to draw any conclusion and conversely, it still is. Just the lad deserves a chance, and half the stuff written is unsubstantiated. I cant believe people were quoting Holloway the poison dwarfs view of Wilf like he's SAF in disguise...
 
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NoWinNoFee said:
Your not one of those who thinks goals make a fantastic player are you?

Lingards overall play on the tour was backwards and sideways, scoring 4th or 5th goal against Kitchee (you know plumbers/icecream men and bricklayers) or Cerezo Osaka is nothing to get excited about and for me, doesn't make him a top prospect because of that, i like to look at what players do for minutes on the pitch besides that.
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If you want to have an argument about Zaha, do that. Don't start reeling off a load of total bollocks about Lingard. He scored more goals than anyone else on that tour (if those goals are so easy to get, how many did Rooney and RVP get between them?). He also assisted more goals than anyone else. And from watching him on the pitch, those two key stats aside, he was probably our joint-best performer along with Januzaj.

And that tired old 'passing backwards and sideways' jibe isn't even vaguely appropriate, because the best thing about him is his ability to turn and move the ball forwards, either at his feet or with a pass, no matter the situation. He's the polar opposite of a passive passer.

Either you simply haven't watched him much or, as I suspect, you simply felt the need to aimlessly slag him off to try and get some kind of foothold in whatever slanging match you and Nev are having about Zaha.

I won't get into a debate about it, because this is the Zaha thread. Maybe keep it that way?
 
Zaha has some talent and is, arguably, better than Young, Valencia and Nani at running at defenders. Still, I'll be pleasantly surprised if he lasts more than another couple of years at United.
 
Wilfried Zaha: I was not David Moyes’s cup of tea at Manchester United

• Chance to create stir for Louis van Gaal with new striker role
• ‘It’s not as much running as being a winger, so I will take it’

Wilfried Zaha believes he was just not David Moyes’s “cup of tea”, with the 21-year-old prepared to fight for a place as a striker under Louis van Gaal at Manchester United.

Zaha was given his first action of United’s summer tour when playing the second half of the 5-3 penalty shootout win over Internazionale on Tuesday evening at Washington’s FedEx Field, after the game ended goalless.

Moyes, who was sacked in April after 10 months in charge at Old Trafford, gave Zaha only four United appearances in his first season following a £15m move from Crystal Palace, with Moyes loaning him to Cardiff City for the second half of the campaign.

Zaha was also guilty of late timekeeping, which displeased Moyes but he is hopeful of forcing his way into Val Gaal’s plans. “To be honest, if you are not the manager’s cup of tea you can’t do anything about it,” he said of Moyes. “There was nothing I could do. It was definitely not my attitude. The manager had his way of playing and maybe I just didn’t suit it. There was so much pressure on him, so I can’t really blame him. I could have got a better chance but coming to United brings a load of pressure.”

However, as Van Gaal has said that Zaha can play only as striker – rather than a winger – in United’s new 3-5-2 system, he knows there will be stiff competition from Wayne Rooney, Robin van Persie and Danny Welbeck.

Zaha played as a forward for the first time against Inter. “I am used to being a winger but if a manager wants me to adapt to a new position, then I will have to – and I don’t mind. To be honest, it’s not as much running as being a winger, so I will take it,” Zaha said, although he did admit to being unsure if he had the ability for the role. “I don’t know. If the manager wants me to play there it would help me to discover what I can do there. I don’t think I have ever played there before but I enjoyed it there.”

Zaha did score the only two goals for Palace against Brighton and Hove Albion in the Championship play-off semi-final second leg in 2013 as a striker but downplayed his role. “Yeah, but I just kind of ended up there that night,” he said.

“At United there are quality players and if you get your chance you have to take it. Any chance I get I will try to make the most of it. You get ups and downs. The season before at Palace was a great season but last season was a bad one. I start off fresh this time.”

Zaha impressed against Inter with a show of pace and strength and might have won a penalty, although the referee, Edwin Jurisevic, turned down the appeal after the player went to ground. “I played all right and I’m just happy the manager is happy with my performance really,” Zaha said.

After the match Van Gaal indicated how hard it will be for Zaha to compete with Rooney, Van Persie, Javier Hernández and Welbeck. “I was pleased. We have to see and wait. He has a lot of competition with the other strikers,” he said.

Zaha said: “I just have to work hard and I have just done what he has asked. He said if I worked hard I would get my chance. It definitely is [a fresh start]. All I can do is work hard and see how the season goes. It’s a clean slate for me.”

Van Gaal has not given any promises. “No, he’s just let me know that he believes in me,” Zaha said. “I can’t tell what’s going to happen with the club but we have a great manager and I am sure he will change things here. He will tell you exactly how he wants it. He won’t beat about the bush or not tell you anything. He will just tell you and that helps you instead of isolating you or just not telling you. He will let you know exactly where you are and what you are doing wrong.”

Regarding last season’s tardy timekeeping, Zaha said: “When things aren’t going well then all sorts of stories come out about you. I will get my head down and carry on playing.”

Van Gaal’s record of giving young players a chance is encouraging. “I have heard that before he came, so I am buzzing to hear that he will give youngsters a chance. That’s all I really [wanted] since I came here. I just want to be a Manchester United player. Hopefully this season I will get the chance,” Zaha said.

He has two England appearances and hopes to add more. “Yeah, definitely. Last season I had no chance but this season anything can happen. I just have to work hard and keep my head down. I’m looking forward to the season. I have worked on aspects of my game. One thing is just keeping it simple. Losing the ball is not going to help your team, so I am trying to change that.

“I just need to keep it simple. I have tried to overelaborate and then I lose the ball and that doesn’t help anyone.”
 
Showed a few glimpses of why we bought him in the first place.

If we played with wingers he could be very successful.

I just worry with him as a striker getting any real time over Rooney, Van Persie, Welbeck, Hernandez and then we will also have Wilson, Keane and Henriquez vying for shots in the team now too.
 
Sam said:
“I am used to being a winger but if a manager wants me to adapt to a new position, then I will have to – and I don’t mind. To be honest, it’s not as much running as being a winger, so I will take it,”

FFS. He's a bit of an idiot isn't he?
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Van Gaal said during the World Cup that he played 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 with Robben up top so he won't have to track down so much or run too much down the lines, meaning he can concentrate on going one way more.

Zaha is saying something on similar lines there to be fair.

Pogue Mahone said:
Not sure it qualifies as great.

Anyway, I certainly wouldn't argue Zaha was poor in pre-season last summer. I actually think he looked like a real talent. Reminiscent of Obertan a few summers previously. Which is why I agree that you shouldn't get carried away by form in pre-season games. I just object to the idea that people thought Lingard did well because he passed sideways and backwards a lot. As for Zaha, he hasn't even hit the peaks he did last summer. Looked a better player then than he does now.
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He was playing inferior opposition then. Actually when we played better opposition in his last 2 games his performances tailed off.

Talent is clearly there for him and he's shown it many times in competitive games, just needs to pull it together bit consistently now in the right system/formation and team.
 
Looked real lively when he came on as a sub. Best attacker in the entire game. Hopefully he kicks on from this, remains hungry, and gives Van Gaal no option than to play him. I really think that Hernandez will leave this summer, this may open things up for Zaha.
 
ghagua said:
Looked real lively when he came on as a sub. Best attacker in the entire game. Hopefully he kicks on from this, remains hungry, and gives Van Gaal no option than to play him. I really think that Hernandez will leave this summer, this may open things up for Zaha.
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I still think there are too many in front of him in the queue, plus he's nowhere near the natural finisher a striker at a top class club like Utd needs to be. It would probably be better for his career if he were to move somewhere where he'll get a regular game. He can still become a top class player, but I can't see it being at Utd.
 
Rednotdead said:
I still think there are too many in front of him in the queue, plus he's nowhere near the natural finisher a striker at a top class club like Utd needs to be. It would probably be better for his career if he were to move somewhere where he'll get a regular game. He can still become a top class player, but I can't see it being at Utd.
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Van Gaal has stated that he wants to play with 2 strikers, and after Rooney, RvP and Welbeck, the choice of 4th striker is wide open if Hernandez leaves. I cannot see another top striker coming in as backup. Will Keane has not looked the same player he was before his injury, Ashley Young looked really good as a wing back, and Van Gaal might just drop Nani into the Atlantic ocean on the way home if the game against Inter was any indication. Only Wilson might be competition for that 4th striker position. If Zaha works hard enough in training, his finishing can be worked on. Van Gaal has everyone working on their finishing and penalties in training.
 
That's an idiotic quote from somebody that is clouded by rumours of an attitude problem. If we sold him tomorrow I really couldn't care less.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Same can be said for Jesse Lingard, United fans still :drool: at his backwards and sideways passes in last seasons friendlies.

Fact is though, Zaha as more talent in his little toe than Jesse Lingard has in his whole body, so what's the difference? Maybe Zaha's just got one of those faces like Danny Welbeck where people find any reason to hate on him.
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You're not giving Lingard any credit are you?
 
ghagua said:
Van Gaal has stated that he wants to play with 2 strikers, and after Rooney, RvP and Welbeck, the choice of 4th striker is wide open if Hernandez leaves. I cannot see another top striker coming in as backup. Will Keane has not looked the same player he was before his injury, Ashley Young looked really good as a wing back, and Van Gaal might just drop Nani into the Atlantic ocean on the way home if the game against Inter was any indication. Only Wilson might be competition for that 4th striker position. If Zaha works hard enough in training, his finishing can be worked on. Van Gaal has everyone working on their finishing and penalties in training.
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Januzaj is an option at striker too, and is more proven at United at this point.
 
Kag said:
That's an idiotic quote from somebody that is clouded by rumours of an attitude problem. If we sold him tomorrow I really couldn't care less.
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Why do people have time for rumors? A false picture of someone can be painted and you'll believe it.
 
Loublaze said:
Why do people have time for rumors? A false picture of someone can be painted and you'll believe it.
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To be fair it's not someone "painting a false picture", as in fabricating something. The question of attitude was alluded to by more than one manager who has had dealings with him. There's also the well documented fact of him turning up late for a reserve game.

That's not to say he hasn't learned and may have changed his attitude, but it wouldn't change the validity of referring to what went on before.
 
surf said:
Januzaj is an option at striker too, and is more proven at United at this point.
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He can play that position as he did for the reserves, but i honestly don't see him being used as a striker. He will be used as sub for Mata, or if we play a different formation, then i see him on the wings.
 
Loublaze said:
Why do people have time for rumors? A false picture of someone can be painted and you'll believe it.
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When two different managers suggest that he has an attitude problem, there's cause for concern.
 
Dante said:
His finishing has been shite for the first team so far.
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Shite is way harsh. Don't remember him missing many good or great chances when he has gotten chances. Anyway, it is ever improving and probably still better than Welbeck or Zaha when he gets into those positions.

When he plays up top he'd play a more withdrawn role drifting all over the place anyway, instead of just a out and out striker.
 
Melvyn said:
When two different managers suggest that he has an attitude problem, there's cause for concern.
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Not when one of them is David Moyes in a shipwreck of a season! Anyway, we know LVG doesn't play that shit. He'll surely be gone if he doesn't show total commitment.
 
Loublaze said:
Not when one of them is David Moyes in a shipwreck of a season! Anyway, we know LVG doesn't play that shit. He'll surely be gone if he doesn't show total commitment.
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No it was Solskjaer and Holloway.
 
“I don’t know. If the manager wants me to play there it would help me to discover what I can do there. I don’t think I have ever played there before but I enjoyed it there.”

Zaha did score the only two goals for Palace against Brighton and Hove Albion in the Championship play-off semi-final second leg in 2013 as a striker but downplayed his role. “Yeah, but I just kind of ended up there that night,” he said.
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He's not the brightest, is he? Not really a Van Gaal type of player in that regard.
 
mu4c_20le said:
"I have worked on aspects of my game. One thing is just keeping it simple. Losing the ball is not going to help your team, so I am trying to change that.

“I just need to keep it simple. I have tried to overelaborate and then I lose the ball and that doesn’t help anyone.”
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That's pleasing to hear. While everybody loves a good trick or a nutmeg, he can be more effective by learning when to use it correctly. His pace and strength with his dribbling ability could make him a very hard man to stop when he get's in full flight; he is more likely to succeed with that than a ball roll and a step over.
 
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