Why is our passing so garbage?

jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Pass completion stats

Bruno - 45 percentile
Eriksen - 28 percentile
Casemiro - 38 percentile
Fred - 41 percentile

None of city main midfielders bar De bruyne are below the 85 percentile. None of Arsenal midfielder are below the 75 percentile bar Odegaard
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We also have player(s) that can only kick with one foot, at the outside of the foot flick isn't a great passing technique.
 
Fatigue
Lack of enough quality players
Paper thin squad

Next season should be much better if we can address these issues but I still think we are 2 windows away from seriously challenging for top honors.
 
giggs-beckham said:
I've been trying to find the courage for days now. I hate him as a player and he'd get nowhere near my 1st 11. Nothing to do with him being a bad captain or whatever.
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Who would make the passes that do open up teams ?
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
Pass completion stats

Bruno - 45 percentile
Eriksen - 28 percentile
Casemiro - 38 percentile
Fred - 41 percentile

None of city main midfielders bar De bruyne are below the 85 percentile. None of Arsenal midfielder are below the 75 percentile bar Odegaard
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This is shocking. We should kick the ball sideways a bit more to farm some pass completion stats for our boys.
 
fallengt said:
Will this question ever get answered?
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Key players in this team are at their best when we play on the counter, so when pressure is applied they go to default settings.
I’m of the belief change in the right personnel will mean Bruno loses his importance and Rashford struggle without spaces behind the defenders. The people at the top will rather see individual look good than the team be great. We need two possession oriented midfielders in front of Casemiro but we don’t sign to create competition.
Put Zielinski/Calhanglu and Eriksen/Kovacic in front of Casemiro our passing or control of the ball changes dramatically. They will always avail themselves to the pass and give options allowing for accuracy.
 
Considering these players would have had top class coaching from a young age then the quality of those coaches should be questioned.
I mean it is basically making good contact with the ball and keeping your head over it and kick it in the direction you want it to go to.....it's not fecking rocket science...geez!
 
Away from Old Trafford the squad is still fragile. That lack of confidence will affect passing.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Away from Old Trafford the squad is still fragile. That lack of confidence will affect passing.
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So professional footballers cannot accomplish the most basic part of football unless they are playing on their home pitch..
Give me a break.
.
 
Eriksen and Lisandro are our only players capable of passing the ball at a top level.
Then there is Shaw and Varane who also have good passing skills.
Some would argue Casemiro is also good, he's decent, but not that great, his qualities lie elsewhere.
Others are mostly rubbish passers, some of them really terrible like MCT, De Gea, AWB, Weghorst.
 
Composure. We don't have alot of players who actually like taking care of the ball and the ones we do have are usually out (Erikson, Cas, Martial) for various reasons.

The midfield chosen yesterday was illustrative of that. Players who wanted to run or constantly try the Hollywood pass and then invariably losing it (ball).
 
fergiewherearethou said:
Some would argue Casemiro is also good, he's decent, but not that great, his qualities lie elsewhere.
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He is quite... revealing though, in a way. He looks like a good, competent passer at United, better than many of us expected because we are used to him being comfortably the worst passer in midfield for his previous club. Of course, that previous club happens to employ Luka Modric and Toni Kroos, both of whom are light years ahead of any United midfielder since... Paul Scholes, probably, at least when it comes to passing.
 
Surprised Iqbal hasn't featured enough really. Loved his composure and game intelligence during pre-season.

Can't deal with McTom running around like a headless chicken. Such a bad overall player.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
Eriksen and Lisandro are our only players capable of passing the ball at a top level.
Then there is Shaw and Varane who also have good passing skills.
Some would argue Casemiro is also good, he's decent, but not that great, his qualities lie elsewhere.
Others are mostly rubbish passers, some of them really terrible like MCT, De Gea, AWB, Weghorst.
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As opposed to who, Chris Smalling? I agree that most of the others are mediocre/awful passers, although Cas is much more composed than McT or even (normally) Fred...
 
Seems a lot of our own fans are in denial re. the question. It's either that, or they literally don't watch any other teams play football.

Even if you don't watch other teams, just watch a few games of ours from any given Fergie year, even the worst (when the infamous zombie football phrase was coined), and compare and contrast it to what we have been since.

The disparity in competence will be astounding to your senses.
 
Fortitude said:
Seems a lot of our own fans are in denial re. the question. It's either that, or they literally don't watch any other teams play football.

Even if you don't watch other teams, just watch a few games of ours from any given Fergie year, even the worst (when the infamous zombie football phrase was coined), and compare and contrast it to what we have been since.

The disparity in competence will be astounding to your senses.
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I agree. The consensus on the Caf, most of the time, is that: a) If you're playing above the halfway line, the only thing you need to do is score goals or assist them, and b) if your role is primarily below the halfway line, you have to be either hard-working or physical. You may get a pass in some games, but in the big ones, we need someone to "get stuck in". Well, people, what are you complaining about? This is what you're getting.
 
Bondi77 said:
Considering these players would have had top class coaching from a young age then the quality of those coaches should be questioned.
I mean it is basically making good contact with the ball and keeping your head over it and kick it in the direction you want it to go to.....it's not fecking rocket science...geez!
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yeah. you think at their level they could just get the ball and kick it right in their fecking goal hole before they get a chance to do anything about it.
 
Because we’ve recruited/promoted mostly players whose strengths lie more on playing without the ball rather than with it, until last summer, and when the newcomers are out then we just revert to type.

There’s no quick fix for that, it’ll take time, and money to rectify.
 
Can't deal with McTom running around like a headless chicken. Such a bad overall player.
[/QUOTE]

There is only so long I can watch McTominay before I ask is he protected from above due to some distance relative connection. Honestly, I wouldn't play him in a pub team. I am probably a bad judge of his talents but someone please explain to me why he get a game? He just makes everyone around him look bad i just don't get it.
 
Siorac said:
He is quite... revealing though, in a way. He looks like a good, competent passer at United, better than many of us expected because we are used to him being comfortably the worst passer in midfield for his previous club. Of course, that previous club happens to employ Luka Modric and Toni Kroos, both of whom are light years ahead of any United midfielder since... Paul Scholes, probably, at least when it comes to passing.
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Paul Scholes gets better every year. He was a good midfielder, but nothing more.
 
Camilo said:
Paul Scholes gets better every year. He was a good midfielder, but nothing more.
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Scholes is United's best passer of, well, probably ever. And since his retirement, we haven't had a single midfielder whose passing was on the level of either Kroos or Modric. Casemiro looked like a water carrier next to those two while in our midfield he's possibly the most composed and 'cultured' passer, alongside Eriksen.
 
Siorac said:
Scholes is United's best passer of, well, probably ever. And since his retirement, we haven't had a single midfielder whose passing was on the level of either Kroos or Modric. Casemiro looked like a water carrier next to those two while in our midfield he's possibly the most composed and 'cultured' passer, alongside Eriksen.
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The best passer at United in the last 30 years isn't saying much. We've been crap passers of the ball forever.
 
For the last few years our biggest problem was getting the transition midfielder one who receives the ball on the turn from defense and gives the attackers or bruno etc the ball further forward were they have maybe less time on the ball and don't have to think to much.

Eriksen came along and he was that midfielder and casemiro can also do it very well. No one else can. Eriksen 90% of the time will play the right pass at the right time. Since he has been injured it shows massively.
 
I havent bothered to check all the clubs but the pass completion of our midfielders is lower that of the big six as well as Newcastle and brighton midfielders
 
KikiDaKats said:
Key players in this team are at their best when we play on the counter, so when pressure is applied they go to default settings.
I’m of the belief change in the right personnel will mean Bruno loses his importance and Rashford struggle without spaces behind the defenders. The people at the top will rather see individual look good than the team be great. We need two possession oriented midfielders in front of Casemiro but we don’t sign to create competition.
Put Zielinski/Calhanglu and Eriksen/Kovacic in front of Casemiro our passing or control of the ball changes dramatically. They will always avail themselves to the pass and give options allowing for accuracy.
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I agree with that. Bruno is a fantastic player when applied correctly. Rashford is as well. But to apply them as good as possible, there is a chance as a club, we get a little stuck. Countering and fast transitional football is awesome but as soon as you climb up the hierarchy, you need to add more weapons to your arsenal. Feels like we are trying to do that but it doesn't benefit us in the short term.

Siorac said:
Scholes is United's best passer of, well, probably ever. And since his retirement, we haven't had a single midfielder whose passing was on the level of either Kroos or Modric. Casemiro looked like a water carrier next to those two while in our midfield he's possibly the most composed and 'cultured' passer, alongside Eriksen.
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I think Carrick deserves a mention here. Carrick had a few flaws, don't want to depict him as overly awesome but his ability to pass through the lines was pretty good and his range was terrific.

berbasloth4 said:
For the last few years our biggest problem was getting the transition midfielder one who receives the ball on the turn from defense and gives the attackers or bruno etc the ball further forward were they have maybe less time on the ball and don't have to think to much.

Eriksen came along and he was that midfielder and casemiro can also do it very well. No one else can. Eriksen 90% of the time will play the right pass at the right time. Since he has been injured it shows massively.
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But this thing shouldn't stand on the shoulders of one player. Especially not one on the older side of things with a serious health issue. To me, it seems that the team itself isn't working fully together. Attack and defense is disjointed, midfield often is just skipped. This isn't a trivial thing and we are doing just fine results-wise despite of it, but we need to adjust. The manager might have to be pragmatic here and change to systems that aren't his favorite ones in certain games or phases. Example Newcastle match: if your two best midfielders are out, don't force the rest of the team to play as if they would be in the team. If United is good at something these days it is long balls from Bruno to Rashford. For that to work we could have sit back a little and close the room for Newcastle. Not that they are team that is thriving in such circumstances...
 
Camilo said:
Paul Scholes gets better every year. He was a good midfielder, but nothing more.
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Controversial to say the the least. Scholes was an excellent passer and used to have a completion rate of about 90% for years in central midfield if I remember correctly, and he didn’t exactly just pass it sideways. Keane was a very accomplished passer for short and medium range, and Carrick was also a very good passer. Who are these players who were so much better? If you have to trot out names like Xavi, Pirlo etc. that should give you a hint as to why your opinion sounds frankly ridiculous.
 
I mean the real reason is obvious: all managers - including late-stage Fergie - refused to decide a midfield formation and purchase players to fit that. Every other major club in European football has done this, but we just refused. Are we going to have a ball winner and two progressives? Two box-to-box and a 10? Two deeper players and one between the lines? The answer appears to be no.

We bought Pogba, and never played him with 2 supporting players. We've bought Eriksen, Fred, Bruno and sort of Sabitzer all of whom play further forward. Casemiro really felt like the first time we'd bought a central midfielder to play in central midfield since..erm...Schneiderlein?

Look around the best teams and all of them, ALL OF THEM are built on a well-designed, functioning midfield. We just refuse. It baffles me, and has baffled me for the best part of 15 years.
 
Beachryan said:
I mean the real reason is obvious: all managers - including late-stage Fergie - refused to decide a midfield formation and purchase players to fit that. Every other major club in European football has done this, but we just refused. Are we going to have a ball winner and two progressives? Two box-to-box and a 10? Two deeper players and one between the lines? The answer appears to be no.

We bought Pogba, and never played him with 2 supporting players. We've bought Eriksen, Fred, Bruno and sort of Sabitzer all of whom play further forward. Casemiro really felt like the first time we'd bought a central midfielder to play in central midfield since..erm...Schneiderlein?

Look around the best teams and all of them, ALL OF THEM are built on a well-designed, functioning midfield. We just refuse. It baffles me, and has baffled me for the best part of 15 years.
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Good post
 
You play turd in midfield, you get to see garbage. Simple.
 
Bit off topic but our whole season has been very heavily influenced by Andy Carroll thuggery and lack of composure from Casemiro. I know these things happen and everyone gets injured etc. but it really annoys me.
 
At the end of the day the likes of McTominay, DDG, Sabitzer, even Bruno and non purple patch Dalot, Awb, Wout etc - these are all footballers who need time and space to be able to play cohesive football. Hence when they face a high octane team that doesn’t let them breathe they crumble. Rashford can also fall into that category as I’ve never rated his general play much.

On the other hand you see someone like Martinez and Eriksen and they have the quality to play amidst the madness. Varane and Casmeiro can also do it but both are much more prone to turnovers.

So it’s about constantly adding players who help the quality on the ball go up. I’d say that Eriksen, Martinez, Casemiero, Antony (retention is very good) and as a squad player Malacia did that. This summer should be about the other positions -probably two CMs, a RB and a CF.

Put it this way - if you a goalie who can’t find his team mates, midfielders who can’t build up play and strikers who can’t make it stick and bring others in - you’ll struggle.
 
Basically we don’t have right amount of technical player to do it in a game, plus our 2 key midfielders has been suspended/injured.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Basically we don’t have right amount of technical player to do it in a game, plus our 2 key midfielders has been suspended/injured.
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Yeah there is serious lack of technical ability in this squad,so you won't see us keeping the ball better until that improves
 
If you are referring to the last game, then we have Rashford, Bruno, MCT, Weghost, DGD who are not good passer in a team of 11. The first 4 players are key to our game. Dalot had an off day too. It is no wonder we look garbage in our passing.

We will look much better once Casemiro (he is not a good passer but much better most), Martial and Erikssen comes back.
 
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