Why is our passing so garbage?

We don't have a carrick or Scholes that can effortlessly control a game, it's so frustrating that had we showed the same ambition as arsenal this January and signed trossard and jorginho we would likely be talking about us fighting for the title instead of watching the same two technically gutted footballers give arsenal that extra boost in the title race
 
We obviously need central midfielder who knows how to pass and recycle position, no matter which style of football we want to play, because every team needs a midfielder who can pass. When Scholes came back from his retirement our team's average passing accuracy improved by 5-7% if I remember the numbers well, and we started playing completely different style of football.

PoTMS said:
Our squad lacks technical ability.
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Also this.
 
Because our most creative outlet either splits a team open or he loses the ball. He's also slow and weak.

Our best short passer is Eriksen and he is injured and also slow and weak.

We need De Jong. Badly. Even more than a striker.
 
DownRiver said:
You will see that Bruno is the biggest culprit. Absolute idiot.

We have players that have low IQ too in their decision making.
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Low IQ is a huge factor. Decision making and thinking of why such and such should be done or is a good decision evades the majority of our midfielders and attackers.

The technical ability is an issue all of its own, but smarter players will not give the ball away with such alarming frequency even with the same level of technical ability as our collective.
 
We try to do everything one touch. Which is great when it works. And the right aspiration. We will get there.
 
pocco said:
I'm not even convinced we want to be a possession based team by the way we play. Even when we had Eriksen. We don't set up to control the game and, as others have said, we're looking more of a transition team. Which I have now been told is what Ajax were anyway, so why are we expecting us to control games? Basically, we're seeing a pumped up version of Ole and José's football due to having better players now.

We're literally the only side who I see regularly go against smaller teams who are doing shite, and we invite them into the game by allowing them possession. We then usually give chances away, which they don't convert because they're crap, and we score eventually.
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Who told you that? They definitely weren't a transition team.
 
pocco said:
I'm not even convinced we want to be a possession based team by the way we play. Even when we had Eriksen. We don't set up to control the game and, as others have said, we're looking more of a transition team. Which I have now been told is what Ajax were anyway, so why are we expecting us to control games? Basically, we're seeing a pumped up version of Ole and José's football due to having better players now.

We're literally the only side who I see regularly go against smaller teams who are doing shite, and we invite them into the game by allowing them possession. We then usually give chances away, which they don't convert because they're crap, and we score eventually.
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Ajax were by any rational measure a possession-based team.

We don't play the way they play because we can't. As new players are signed, that will change.
 
Bruno Fernandes, Fred, Mctom, Casemiro. Four of the most irresponsible players on the ball in one team. That is why we need at least two central midfielders this summer that have the brain and awareness to keep the ball and keep things simple.
 
De Jong and maybe someone like Brozovic in the summer would help immensely.
 
FrankDrebin said:
I best ball player is Erikson by some distance followed by Casemiro and then ,someway below that ,Bruno.

We need more Erikson's.
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Martinez gives Eriksen a run for his money, but yeah in terms of midfielders we could do with another real technician.
 
We have improved in most aspects of the game under ETH but our passing remains, by the standards of PL, very average.

This is mainly down to players, as collectively you can't have 4/5 poor passers for the team improve. I can tell that it really grates on ETH when he sees the attacks breakdown due to poor passing and decision making. This will only improve with better players, which hopefully ETH is working on.
 
Pass completion stats

Bruno - 45 percentile
Eriksen - 28 percentile
Casemiro - 38 percentile
Fred - 41 percentile

None of city main midfielders bar De bruyne are below the 85 percentile. None of Arsenal midfielder are below the 75 percentile bar Odegaard
 
Look at our squad. We've got a goalkeeper who can't play out the back, a right back that looks like bambi on ice on the ball and midfielders who aren't technically sound or press resistant. Add low IQ decision making into the mix and it's a recipe for disaster.

Unless we massively reshape the squad and bring in technical players comfortable in tight spaces we'll always be a team that overturns the ball softly.
 
Its a player issue rather than a coaching/ manager one, to be fair.

I would like to think it'll change in the summer but the clubs future is up in the air and we dont know how much we're going to spend. I think FFP is a major issue too.

Abit buggered.
 
Conceding possession when our attacking players doing unneeded flicks particularly when they are not tightly marked is just as concerning.
 
We've been needing that midfielder who has the technical ability, composure, and constant need to gravitate to the ball. ETH recognizes this, hence why he got Eriksen. Eriksen can be upgraded on, as he is more of a depth piece.

Then you add in DDG, our RB, etc...

-Supreme- said:
Conceding possession when our attacking players doing unneeded flicks particularly when they are not tightly marked is just as concerning.
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Some of that occurs because they are not as good on the ball too, but you are right about that.
 
mikeyt said:
If you want to play possession based football it's quite simple, Bruno must be benched or better still, sold.
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Here's what that will achieve.

We'll still be really sloppy. Because we have a bunch of others who are sloppy. Only now we'll be sloppy without any cutting edge as well.
 
Our passing feels better than it did under Ole, Mou and LVG to be honest.
 
We don't have established midfield. That is the problem for some time now. Once we have midfield combo that works we will have decent passing, until then we have to enjoy this bs.
 
I don’t buy our players are technically deficient to even make simple pass. Many teams below us play better than us when it comes to passing. Newcastle and Brighton don’t have better technical players than us. Not saying De zerbi and Howe are better managers than ten hag but they do prioritise this aspect in their coaching. Ten hag isn’t a possession based manager so I guess he doesn’t emphasise on this passing thing that much in his philosophy.
 
I’m tired of us not prioritising possession. Will never be elite until it happens.
 
klayton88 said:
There's one obvious culprit but more and more players in our team can't play a 10 yard pass consistently. Is it infectious?

We constantly put ourselves in bad positions and on the back foot.
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No, it's not infectious. Most of our players are not good enough passers. It's that simple. Just carefully watch KDB - it's not only properly weighted pass. It's who do you pass to (left, right, back, forward). And decision should be made within split of a second. Bruno tries and often fails. Fred knows that he will fail so he doesn't even try. McT (no comments here). Bring Pep to MU and he will fail with players we have.
 
Fortitude said:
Low IQ is a huge factor. Decision making and thinking of why such and such should be done or is a good decision evades the majority of our midfielders and attackers.

The technical ability is an issue all of its own, but smarter players will not give the ball away with such alarming frequency even with the same level of technical ability as our collective.
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Agree with that fully. For anyone willing to pay attention to the actual football and not just lap up the United soap opera, this is clear for weeks.
Erik has obviously recognised this and played to our strengths as well as he can.

Clear example is the Barca 2nd half. We were being controlled by a smarter team so he mad it chaos and opened the game. That’s his only tactic to make the game play out on our terms. Can be risky but we don’t have enough players yet to make consistently smart choices and be sure in a control based approach.

Erik is showing great management to pivot to this approach.
 
The amount of crap Bruno gets is hilarious.

Read the Amad Diallo performance thread and it's full of people claiming the passes he doesn't make means his team mates aren't good enough to read his passes.

Yet Bruno can't pass but Amad can etc etc.

This place does crack me up.
 
Up until the Eriksen injury we were controlling games pretty well. Since then, and it’s not just because Eriksen has been missing, we’ve had a very unsettled midfield with so many different combos for different reasons, along with fatigue and it’s all got a bit chaotic.

And it’s not over because now we’ve lost our anchor for another 4 games.

Hopefully we will get back some stability in the middle of the park by the end of the season and we can get some control back.
 
It was a bad day at the office.

Our passing is much better this season than the past few seasons.

We do need some additions though.
 
I honestly think that even if we don't have the greatest passers, tiredness is huge at this point. We've also lost Eriksen because of that oaf Caroll and it is no coincidence we basically have a brand new starting midfield this season - the manager doesn't rate the old one.

People talk about the physical aspect but it's also mental. Concentrating for hours on end for months on end when you're playing opposition that you know will punish you is just exhausting.

Having referees like the morons Taylor and Marriner doesn't help.
 
We don't have the right players
We need more time

Be patient
 
youngrell said:
Up until the Eriksen injury we were controlling games pretty well. Since then, and it’s not just because Eriksen has been missing, we’ve had a very unsettled midfield with so many different combos for different reasons, along with fatigue and it’s all got a bit chaotic.

And it’s not over because now we’ve lost our anchor for another 4 games.

Hopefully we will get back some stability in the middle of the park by the end of the season and we can get some control back.
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Exactly. Our possession stats and territorial dominance has been a huge and clear improvement this season. We did look in control of games more often than not with the exception of Arsenal and City and maybe which obviously suggests that we weren't the finished article.

People forget that controlling games is not just about individual quality. Real have Kroos and Modric, probably two of the best midfielders in recent times and still barely managed to control games. The teams that do have an almost religious approach to it with how they build towards it for years, it's literally the hardest thing you can do in football. Having a technical spine is only one part of the process. We were and I believe, still are clearly building towards that but our improvement has been blocked by Eriksen's injury and more importantly, a schedule that meant we barely had any time to train at all since the season started. We have been playing every 3 days which makes coaching anything impossible. Add to it, as you mention the instability of midfield and some of our fans are really asking for something impossible.

The biggest surprise to me has been that EtH can actually adapt and find ways to utilize his personnel that are efficient. But for him to fulfil his vision, he definitely needs more time on the training ground and of course a couple of more options who are more comfortable on the ball.
 
Part of the reason I think posters who think replacing de gea will have that much of an impact. No point having a keeper who's good on the ball if your outfielders think it's a hot potato.

We need a few upgrades outfield, up top, beside case and right back, badly.
 
Regarding passing, you do see glimpses of what ETH’s finished product is going to look like.

There has been quite a few instances this season where we’ve passed around in close quarters and got ourselves out of trouble quite confidently, or produced a chance from one of those dangerous through balls which splits the defensive line.

If you gauge it from the last decade worth of managers barring Fergie, I’d say it’s been some of the most entertaining and creative passing we’ve witnessed, albeit a little clumsy at times.

Today I noticed more clumsiness than usual but you could pin that on being a man down with a thinned midfield. When you’re playing with 10 men early into a game something has to give.

Luckily it was the passing rather than conceding a goal.
 
Eriksen was a monumental loss the teams performances have taken a nosedive I've been saying this it's very noticeable the games he's in compared to those he's not.
 
Basic pass completion for our players versus City's.

De Gea 72.0% vs Ederson 85.8%
AWB - 82.8% / Dalot 77.4% vs Walker 86.5%*
Varane - 85.8% vs Dias 92.3%
Martinez - 86.6% vs Stones 94.1%
Shaw - 81.8% vs Ake 90.3%
Casemiro - 77.1% vs Rodri 91.3%
Eriksen - 78.9% / Fred - 79.5% vs Silva 85.3% / Ilkay 85.6%
Bruno - 72.9% vs KDB - 71.4%
Rashford - 75.3% vs Grealish 83.5%
Antony - 76.4% vs Foden - 80.6%
Weghorst - 71.5% / Martial - 80.5% vs Haaland 73.5%

Makes the focus on Bruno's erratic passing specifically seem odd given we rely on him so much for creativity.

In order to improve, the obvious focus should be on the back seven unit (De Gea, RB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, CM). Partly because they simply make more passes than the front half of the team, partly because improving in those positions would allow us to make changes tactically and play out from the back more. As is we resort to going long a lot more often, which obviously has an impact on our ability to keep the ball overall.

Of that back seven Casemiro, Martinez, Varane and Shaw are the least likely to be displaced and the most likely to "deserve" to be worked around based on other qualities they provide. Which really places heavy emphasis on upgrading De Gea, RB and CM. Because those are the positions in that unit in which you can most painlessly make key upgrades. If we want to get better in possession, that's where we start.

*Worth noting AWB's pass completion, which actually fares quite well considering his reputation for being poor on the ball. The problem with him specifically is the type of passing he does to make up that high completion rate, being the least progressive of our fullbacks.

AWB - 3.19 per 90, 36th percentile.
Dalot - 3.49 per 90, 46th percentile.
Malacia 4.04 per 90, 59th percentile
Shaw - 4.88 per 90, 73rd percentile.

The other fullbacks (in particular Dalot and Shaw) similarly fare better in terms of passes into the opposition third, passes into the penalty area, etc.
 
Poor technical ability and low football IQ throughout the team. Our best technician is a CB which says it all. We badly need another midfielder.
 
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