Good lord. Fairly sure this post isnt even sarcastic. Wowsers!
Why are we not in for Hernandez ?
- Thread starter davidmichael
- Start date
Good lord. Fairly sure this post isnt even sarcastic. Wowsers!
So basically you want a discussion where people are not allowed to use any of their own views of the situation, so really then there is no point to this thread. The fact is there is more evidence to suggest that he does not want to be 2nd or 3rd or 4th choice (based on one of his reasons for leaving) then there is to suggest he would not mind being 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice. And people absolutely can bring that into this thread, when the question at hand is "why aren't we in" for him.
Also, this forum has posters from all over the world, who read their sports news from sources all over the world, so no it is not weird at all for someone to use Euros. Heck even many of the sources used throughout this forum will quote figures using Euros, even the English ones at times. You really are the one coming across as being the one with the agenda.
do you say the same about, for instance, George Best? or DDG at the end of last season? never saw him do anything but give his all...
huh?
No sorry this was before I remembered we are signing Ronaldo, Bellotti, Lukaku, and Griezmann.
Obviously we wouldn't want to go into a PL season relying on Morata (fingers crossed it gets done) and a 19yo kid would we.
Surprised AC Milan arent interested in him.
It appears people in this thread are actually okay with that. I really doubt Morata can provide the amount of goals Zlatan did. Rashford and Martial need to step up and start living to their hype. This applies more to Martial who was utter gash last season.
I sure as hell wouldn't want to go into preseason game relying on a 34 year old Jermain Defoe.
Not since the untimely death of Martial or the retirement of every other striker in the world. Its Defoe and Hernandez or no one @Tiber!
Then you weren't watching the games properly. His demeanour and effort was noticeably different
@Tiber - how would we be 'relying' on Defoe? The whole point of my argument is too say we should have signed Defoe on a free as a back-up
@ivaldo - no point carrying on this conversation with you mate. Whatever I say you deliberately or not totally misinterpret the wider point being made
Think some people need on this thread need to come off FIFA or Football Manager or whatever and join the real world where teams bring in stop-gaps all the time
@ivaldo - no point carrying on this conversation with you mate. Whatever I say you deliberately or not totally misinterpret the wider point being made
Think some people need on this thread need to come off FIFA or Football Manager or whatever and join the real world where teams bring in stop-gaps all the time
no offense, but it takes a lot of nerve to say United should sign 34 year old Jermaine Defoe then lecture other posters for playing football manager
If Chicha doesn't mind being the backup option, to come off bench some times, then I don't see why we shouldn't go for him. But I doubt he would want to be that. I don't think he is so bad that he can't even play backup.
People saying he is utter waste of a space need to have a word with themselves.
People saying he is utter waste of a space need to have a word with themselves.
Hernandez would never be more than a super sub for Jose so he probably prefers to be the star elsewhere. West Ham would be a good move for him. Jose likes the big strikers who can hold up play so that will obviously be his major priority. That leaves us with Rashford and Martial in the second striker role which is more than enough unless Jose decides to cash in on Martial
I think you just probably just discontinue discussion in this thread entirely. Whenever a genuine point is put to you you ignore it and say you're being misinterpreted.
He doesn't want to be a backup striker, especially at this stage of his career and he is not good enough to be starter, the evidence being that no other top club is interested.
If it's ok for him to be something like a joker from the bench.... yeah, why not?
If he still thinks - like he did when he left - that he has to be a starter, then not.
If he still thinks - like he did when he left - that he has to be a starter, then not.
Why on earth would he want to come here and sit on the bench when he can be a starter elsewhere. Nonsensical question
@Tiber @ivaldo
Come on then guys, its easy to criticise other people without making any suggestions of your own.
You are in charge. You know that we need to strengthen in multiple positions and that you have a figure of around £200m to spend.
I personally expect us to sign Matic (£30m), Lindelof is done (£30m) Morata (£65m) and Perisic (£36m)
Who do you guys suggest we go and get with the money we may (or may not) have left?
Come on then guys, its easy to criticise other people without making any suggestions of your own.
You are in charge. You know that we need to strengthen in multiple positions and that you have a figure of around £200m to spend.
I personally expect us to sign Matic (£30m), Lindelof is done (£30m) Morata (£65m) and Perisic (£36m)
Who do you guys suggest we go and get with the money we may (or may not) have left?
The whole idea of Hernandez is the fact he'd add goals at a minimal price, and would only be a niche option for the squad, while we'd bring in Morata, who would be first choice.
What I don't understand is how people can say we have no use of a niche player of that type. Whom, even after a 100 day spell of no goals last season, finished 11 in 26 league games, and a total of 39 goals in 76 games over the last 2 years at Leverkusen... because we have Rashford 5 league goals last season and Martial 4 fecking league goals last year.
(The fact he probably wouldnt want to come back and be a sub again is a legit point however)
What I don't understand is how people can say we have no use of a niche player of that type. Whom, even after a 100 day spell of no goals last season, finished 11 in 26 league games, and a total of 39 goals in 76 games over the last 2 years at Leverkusen... because we have Rashford 5 league goals last season and Martial 4 fecking league goals last year.
(The fact he probably wouldnt want to come back and be a sub again is a legit point however)
This isn't 'Football Manager'...
Just confirmed my suspicion mate - was it Brian Clough who said "any idiot can put their foot through a Picasso, the hard bit is painting it in the first place"?
Easy to criticise other posters for suggesting solutions, not so easy to come up with any
I have plenty of suggestions, I just couldn't resist regurgitating the spew you had used to critcise anyone who has higher ambitions than Jermaine fecking Defoe.
As I have repeatedly said my focus would be on bringing in additional strength out wide so that we can play Rashford and Martial centrally. If I wanted an additional striker I would have gone for Andre Silva.
Think there are other threads for that discussion.
Err because he might actually win something and not be fighting for 14th place at a mickey mouse club like West Ham?
Yes but you used it out of context. The point of my general FM/FIFA analogy was to highlight that just because on those games it takes two minutes to buy and sell star players as is your want, that isn't how the real world transfer market works. Thus, signing two proven goalscorers for buttons to support the big summer signings might not be the ridiculous idea it has been made out to be.
The context in which you used it was seemingly to undermine my opinion that we are chasing four players we have been heavily and repeatedly linked to (one of which has signed) by credible sources.
This is what I mean by "misinterpretation" by the way. Context is everything. Like responding to a post where I say we don't have the time, funds or even play the system to support signing another big name CF by accusing me of either lowering standards (despite me repeatedly using the phrase 'back up') or not believing there is a player between Ronaldo and Defoe/Hernandez ability-wise
I would have happily had a proper conversation with you and that other guy and happily agreed to disagree but its the way some fans seem to portray their opinions and gospel and superior to others.
For example, I don't rate Rashford as highly as some others on here. I think he will develop into a good if unspectacular player. Martial I believe is a special talent but not a CF. Therefore I disagree with your opinion that we will be OK going into next season with Martial and Rashford in reserve but I don't need to ridicule your opinion to state my own
Thats an awful lot of words to use and still be wrong. The context was fine.
We've just discussed your attempt to ridicule with that shitty FM joke. It's a little late to take the moral high ground matey.
We are almost there with Morata and there's nothing to suggest signing player X would take any longer than signing Hernandez. We don't have the funds or time? It's barely July and we can't shit without hitting money.
So to clarify:
- Rashford will never amount to a top player
- We don't have the money for a second big signing
- We have run out of time to sign any player of worth
- You would sign both Hernandez and Defoe and believe they will help us to the premier league title.
And you wonder why your posts are being ridiculed?
Still can't interpret an argument....
- Rashford will never amount to be a top player
OK, maybe I will give you that. I did say "good if unspectacular" which leaves a lot of room to be very good without being Messi/Ronaldo. It's not that I don't rate Rashford, I just don't think he will ever be a top, top player. I hope I am wrong.
- We don't have the money for a 2nd big signing
Not true. Taken out of context, as you well know. I have clearly stated that we probably have around £200m to strengthen 4/5 positions. I listed 4 players. 1 we have signed already, 3 that we are quite clearly openly chasing.
Correct context - we are unlikely to want to spend £50m+ on another striker to warm the bench whilst other positions are crying out to be strengthened.
- We have run out of time to sign any player of worth
Not true, see above. We have plenty of time to sign other targets but I do not believe we will prioritise signing another CF whilst other targets remain unsigned.
- ...sign both Hernandez and Defoe and believe they would win us the title
I would like you to find the post of mine which refers to us winning the title or indeed these two players and the word 'title' even in the same post
On a seperate note I could point out that Javier Hernandez has won a PL title but that is by the by
I could also point out that our manager claimed Hernandez would have scored 20 goals in our side last season
Don't forget, this whole argument started because you found the notion that Utd would sign Hernandez and Defoe so laughable that it warranted ridicule
Incredible how your 'context' seems to be anything that you want it to be after you've said it and it's been unravelled.
How did I not know that stating, categorically, we don't have the time meant: We have plenty of time to sign other targets but I do not believe we will prioritise signing another CF.
It's not a case of moving the goalposts with you is it, the goalposts are tied to the back of a Bugatti Veyron doing laps of the nurburgring.
My apologises, I was under the assumption we were looking to win the title next season. It all makes sense now why you think we should sign a 35 year old Defoe and a striker who went 100 days without scoring last season! Seriously?
Luke Chadwick has won a premier league title, should we sign him too? Wait forget I said that, you'll get ideas.
It's abundantly clear he was having a dig at LVG as he had done several times prior to it, I'm suprised that has to be explained to you.
I'm out, this is just become ridiculous! Reply if you like, get the last word in but I'm not going to waste energy in responding again.
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How will he help bridge the gap? By scoring key goals that turn frustrating draws into wins, like he did multiple times in his United career.
I don't know if I watched a different team to you last season but failure to convert dominance into goals was a huge reason United were cut adrift from the top teams.
The club needs a good penalty box striker either good enough to be first choice or as an option. Rashford and Martial are certainly not that. Griezmann was ideal because he would have added those qualities and more. Without him, I don't know where they will come from.
What amazes me is that you watched the team last season and conclude that an Ibra replacement, Rashford and Martial is adequate goal scoring threat. I really hope you're right but last season suggests you're not.
But the solution for a team struggling to score goals isn't a player who last season struggled to score goals. And people keep going on like he's some prolific goal scoring machine. He's not, I repeat, he's only managed more than 20 goals once in all his years playing outside of Mexico.
Nostalgia does some odd things to people. A Leverkusen reject who couldn't displace a 33 year old Kiessling is not the solution to our problems.
The whole team completely lost its confidence in front of goal last season, I'm not expecting to see that again this season.
You keep saying he's only managed to score 20 goals once since he left Mexico... He scored 26 goals on his first season with Leverkusen just so you know.
I think he means as a 3rd/4th choice striker... No one in their right mind was thinking he would start!!!!
I think you are massively over simplifying your argument and assume my arguments are equally simplistic.
It's nothing to do with nostalgia or not remembering the limitations in Chicharito's game. It's also not as simple as "we need more goals, let's buy someone who gets a lot of goals in another team". It is the explicit lack of a penalty box striker in the United squad and the lack of goal scoring instinct among the existing attackers. That was a huge flaw in the squad last season and the expected solution in Griezmann is no longer joining the club.
Hernandez is a proven commodity at the club and if he was still at United he would be a key impact player. £13m is pretty cheap in the current market. If United can afford Morata plus another top class goal scoring forward (whether that is a striker, a second striker or a goal scoring wide forward) then fantastic. If not, a cheaper proven goal scorer at the club who could turn draws into wins is a fantastic option.
No he's not a proven commodity at the club. The manager, the staff, the players, the playing style, all these things and more have changed drastically since Hernandez was last here. The club is not as he knew it.
He doesn't want to be an impact player, so he would demand more game time.
A poacher is not what we lacked, it was confidence in front of goal, seeing as it affected our entire squad there's nothing to suggest it wouldn't affect him either; particularly as he had his own drought last season - far worse than anyone else experienced.
All those things are an oversimplification of the impact of a player who is being let go by a club a good level below us. There's a reason for that, what do you think that reason is?
Your entire argument is based on your find memories of him when he played for the club several years ago. That's nostalgia.
Yeah, that will be the one time in his entire career he's managed it, followed by a season he scored 11. So what's factually wrong with my statement?
What he said is fine. There are times in games where you need to change things. Both players are good goalscorers and can score from up close and at distance. One of the other last season might have made a world of difference to us. So many times players were static in the box. It's not about game after game. It's about having these options that are proven.
Exactly. Why do you even have to explain that? It should be obvious what people are saying. Defoe would get into double figures and who knows how critical those goals would be. As it stands we've severely lacking.
His allround game is still shit. Good finisher but nothing more I'm afraid. The only thing I regret about letting him go is the fee, we shouldn't have sold him for anything less than £20m. But compared to what Fenerbahce paid us for van Persie and Nani, I guess Ed was delighted with £7.3m for Hernandez.