Why are we not in for Hernandez ?

[Klopp_De_Klown]

No no no no

Bad attitude in his last few games here. I can understand why he was frustrated but the misses and the pen, my god, me gran would of at least had 2 if not 4 goals herself.

Good enough finisher but we have been there and done that, time to wish him well in his twlight playing yeears.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Thank god LVG was here.

Nice WUM attempt!

Does it really matter that much to you? Quite clearly I wasn't attempting to inflate the proposed fee, and instead of simply questioning it you sumised I had an agenda. So tell me what is my 'agenda'? It's generally a word thrown around here when someone has an opinion you don't like but I'd like you to tell me, specifically, what my agenda is.

Calm the feck down mate, you seem to be getting very wound up over what ought to be a pretty mild, hypothetical discussion about re-signing Chicharito. We get that you don't rate him, but football is a subjective thing, and others could see a role for him here - providing the context was right (i.e. he was happy to take a supporting role). I'm absolutely fine with your opinion on him as a player, what I have an issue with is your apparent incredulity that anybody could think differently.

No, I don't know with any assurance he has changed his mind, but I've got a damn sight more to go in making my assumption than you have that he has. Hypothetical or not, when you're discussing the validity of a player transfer you can't just ignore any aspect that goes against your point of view. And I'm the one with the agenda, apparently.

Again chill - listen to the tone of that statement?! Again can I reiterate that most of us are just saying that *if* he had now changed his mind about being prepared to be a back-up striker then he could be useful to us. You and others repeatedly saying 'he doesn't want to be a bench option' like you are in his head just closes down the discussion based on something that you don't actually know to be fact.

So what you are saying is you used an example with no relevancy to the point at hand.

Nope, that's what you're saying! I think it was relevant in that both players had excellent seasons the season before last, and disappointing seasons last year.

So basically you want a discussion where people are not allowed to use any of their own views of the situation, so really then there is no point to this thread.

No, you have that back to front. What is happening is that some people are discussing a 'what if' scenario, and others are shutting that down by saying that scenario is impossible - based on something Hernandez said 2 years ago. I do fully understand that viewpoint and concede that it is perhaps more likely, but there really is no point to this or any other thread if we are going to take that approach. The first reply to the OP might as well have just said "Close the thread, Hernandez stated 2 years ago that he didn't want to sit on the bench therefore there is no further call for debate", but the reality is that a million different things could have happened to change his mind in that time so it's valid (imho) for us to speculate in the name of a bit of lighthearted football discussion.

Also, this forum has posters from all over the world, who read their sports news from sources all over the world, so no it is not weird at all for someone to use Euros. Heck even many of the sources used throughout this forum will quote figures using Euros, even the English ones at times.

It's not weird for someone from a different country to use Euros, of course it isn't, but in the context of this thread - and the initial tweet which instigated it - the only price that has ever been quoted and discussed has been £13 million, so in the midst of a rant about why it would be a terrible idea to re-sign Hernandez to casually sling in "for 15 million", with no currency attached, could be seen as being a subtle little way to boost your argument on the sly. Journalists do this sort of thing all the time if they want to artificially inflate (or decrease) a players value to suit the tenor of their piece.

 

[POF]

No he's not a proven commodity at the club. The manager, the staff, the players, the playing style, all these things and more have changed drastically since Hernandez was last here. The club is not as he knew it.

He doesn't want to be an impact player, so he would demand more game time.

A poacher is not what we lacked, it was confidence in front of goal, seeing as it affected our entire squad there's nothing to suggest it wouldn't affect him either; particularly as he had his own drought last season - far worse than anyone else experienced.

All those things are an oversimplification of the impact of a player who is being let go by a club a good level below us. There's a reason for that, what do you think that reason is?

Your entire argument is based on your find memories of him when he played for the club several years ago. That's nostalgia.


Yeah, that will be the one time in his entire career he's managed it, followed by a season he scored 11. So what's factually wrong with my statement?

I usually find you a decent poster but this is absolutely tiresome. You are now telling me the basis of my own argument so you can refute it.

By a "proven commodity at the club", I meant that he has proven that he has the mentality and game to perform at United. Many players from lesser clubs cannot make that step up to a top club. He has proven he can do it. Although I am sure you'll tell me that's not what I meant.

 

[ivaldo]

I usually find you a decent poster but this is absolutely tiresome. You are now telling me the basis of my own argument so you can refute it.

By a "proven commodity at the club", I meant that he has proven that he has the mentality and game to perform at United. Many players from lesser clubs cannot make that step up to a top club. He has proven he can do it. Although I am sure you'll tell me that's not what I meant.

Ok mate well let's leave it there, we aren't getting anywhere.

 

[Hullyback]

Because he's not good enough perhaps?
He's very one dimensional as a player, and even then he's also massively purple patch orientated.

Sure he'd bang in a few goals here and there, but so would 100s of average strikers out there in his bracket and price range.

Would United fans really like to see this journeyman take minutes off Rashford, or Martial (who I fear, and genuinely think within a year or two is going to become world class?)

Seems like a nice guy, but the guy who owns my chippy is a nice guy, I wouldn't want him leading the line against Spurs next season. West Ham is his level, he'll do ok there. 10-12 goals, plenty of football.

 

[Lentwood]

Incredible how your 'context' seems to be anything that you want it to be after you've said it and it's been unravelled.


How did I not know that stating, categorically, we don't have the time meant: We have plenty of time to sign other targets but I do not believe we will prioritise signing another CF.

It's not a case of moving the goalposts with you is it, the goalposts are tied to the back of a Bugatti Veyron doing laps of the nurburgring.

My apologises, I was under the assumption we were looking to win the title next season. It all makes sense now why you think we should sign a 35 year old Defoe and a striker who went 100 days without scoring last season! Seriously?

Luke Chadwick has won a premier league title, should we sign him too? Wait forget I said that, you'll get ideas.

It's abundantly clear he was having a dig at LVG as he had done several times prior to it, I'm suprised that has to be explained to you.

I'm out, this is just become ridiculous! Reply if you like, get the last word in but I'm not going to waste energy in responding again.

Sorry mate it feels ridiculous falling out with people over something so trivial

I tend to get tapping away in the heat of an argument whilst doing other things and obviously it gets more silly than it would if you were just having a chat down the pub

I still think we missed a trick with Defoe/Hernandez though...:-)

 

[ivaldo]

Calm the feck down mate, you seem to be getting very wound up over what ought to be a pretty mild, hypothetical discussion about re-signing Chicharito. We get that you don't rate him, but football is a subjective thing, and others could see a role for him here - providing the context was right (i.e. he was happy to take a supporting role). I'm absolutely fine with your opinion on him as a player, what I have an issue with is your apparent incredulity that anybody could think differently.



Again chill - listen to the tone of that statement?! Again can I reiterate that most of us are just saying that *if* he had now changed his mind about being prepared to be a back-up striker then he could be useful to us. You and others repeatedly saying 'he doesn't want to be a bench option' like you are in his head just closes down the discussion based on something that you don't actually know to be fact.

Nope, that's what you're saying! I think it was relevant in that both players had excellent seasons the season before last, and disappointing seasons last year.

You can divert attention to some false anger you seem to be hellbent on portrsy8ng me to have all you like but it doesn't cover up the guff you're coming out with.

As has been pointed out by myself and others you've created this hypothetical where by you discount anything that goes against signing Hernandez and expect everyone to see it in the same rosy light as you do. The title of the thread is explicit in asking the question why we aren't in for him. Hence why we are giving reasons as to why we aren't in for him?

We also don't know whether he's spent the last 3 weeks on a cocaine binge and is being investigated for attempted murder, but we use the evidence available to us to come to a reasonable assumption and base our opinion on that. What you have done is the opposite.

You've chose to ignore his recent form, the elephant in the room as to why a club below our station can't even find space for him in their squad and play a 33 year old with 6 caps instead, his goal record not being nearly as good as you're trying to make it out to be and that it is well documented he doesn't want to be a bench warmer any more. If you take those kind of liberties with ant player then you can find reason to sign them.

The reasons to make comparisons is to compare. One player has the talent to be world class and is only 21, the other is a journeyman who has not been able to pin down a place at any club he's been at. You keep barking on about context, well then use it here.

 

[ivaldo]

Sorry mate it feels ridiculous falling out with people over something so trivial

I tend to get tapping away in the heat of an argument whilst doing other things and obviously it gets more silly than it would if you were just having a chat down the pub

I still think we missed a trick with Defoe/Hernandez though...:-)

No worries mate. It's good to get the blood boiling now and again.

You're still absolutely wrong!

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

You can divert attention to some false anger you seem to be hellbent on portrsy8ng me to have all you like but it doesn't cover up the guff you're coming out with.

OK mate, maybe I'm misinterpreting you - apologies. Maybe you just have a particularly abrasive writing style...

Who said they were? That's quite literally my point. I even said in the post you quoted there is a level between Defoe and Ronaldo did I not?

You genuinely can't see a middle ground there can you? It's got to be either Defoe or Belotti has it.

You need to get away from this 'can do a job' mentality.

Incredible then, that despite being short of options up front none of those teams have opted to pursue Hernandez, nor did they look to sign Defoe for that matter. Why do you think that is?

Firstly, I did not specify a currency, I think you'll find €15mil is about £13mil so you can cut the 'agenda' bullshit for a start.

No, I don't know with any assurance he has changed his mind, but I've got a damn sight more to go in making my assumption than you have that he has.

I have plenty of suggestions, I just couldn't resist regurgitating the spew you had used to critcise anyone who has higher ambitions than Jermaine fecking Defoe.

Thats an awful lot of words to use and still be wrong.

We've just discussed your attempt to ridicule with that shitty FM joke. It's a little late to take the moral high ground matey.

And you wonder why your posts are being ridiculed?

It's not a case of moving the goalposts with you is it, the goalposts are tied to the back of a Bugatti Veyron doing laps of the nurburgring.

Luke Chadwick has won a premier league title, should we sign him too? Wait forget I said that, you'll get ideas.

 

[ivaldo]

OK mate, maybe I'm misinterpreting you - apologies. Maybe you just have a particularly abrasive writing style...

That makes for brilliant reading.

Maybe one of those quotes you could pass as anger, the rest are just a bit of good ol fashioned sarcasm. Perhaps it's a type of humour you don't really get?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

That makes for brilliant reading.

Maybe one of those quotes you could pass as anger, the rest are just a bit of good ol fashioned sarcasm. Perhaps it's a type of humour you don't really get?

I think when you are continually using sarcasm as a tool during a discussion it's not exactly conducive to a good natured debate. But enough, it looks as though we're signing Lukaku so maybe we'll all have better things to do than discuss hypothetical situations about a player that hasn't even been linked with a return to us.

 

[ivaldo]

I think when you are continually using sarcasm as a tool during a discussion it's not exactly conducive to a good natured debate. But enough, it looks as though we're signing Lukaku so maybe we'll all have better things to do than discuss hypothetical situations about a player that hasn't even been linked with a return to us.

Lets hope so.

 

[JustAFan]

Nice WUM attempt!


Calm the feck down mate, you seem to be getting very wound up over what ought to be a pretty mild, hypothetical discussion about re-signing Chicharito. We get that you don't rate him, but football is a subjective thing, and others could see a role for him here - providing the context was right (i.e. he was happy to take a supporting role). I'm absolutely fine with your opinion on him as a player, what I have an issue with is your apparent incredulity that anybody could think differently.



Again chill - listen to the tone of that statement?! Again can I reiterate that most of us are just saying that *if* he had now changed his mind about being prepared to be a back-up striker then he could be useful to us. You and others repeatedly saying 'he doesn't want to be a bench option' like you are in his head just closes down the discussion based on something that you don't actually know to be fact.




Nope, that's what you're saying! I think it was relevant in that both players had excellent seasons the season before last, and disappointing seasons last year.




No, you have that back to front. What is happening is that some people are discussing a 'what if' scenario, and others are shutting that down by saying that scenario is impossible - based on something Hernandez said 2 years ago. I do fully understand that viewpoint and concede that it is perhaps more likely, but there really is no point to this or any other thread if we are going to take that approach. The first reply to the OP might as well have just said "Close the thread, Hernandez stated 2 years ago that he didn't want to sit on the bench therefore there is no further call for debate", but the reality is that a million different things could have happened to change his mind in that time so it's valid (imho) for us to speculate in the name of a bit of lighthearted football discussion.



It's not weird for someone from a different country to use Euros, of course it isn't, but in the context of this thread - and the initial tweet which instigated it - the only price that has ever been quoted and discussed has been £13 million, so in the midst of a rant about why it would be a terrible idea to re-sign Hernandez to casually sling in "for 15 million", with no currency attached, could be seen as being a subtle little way to boost your argument on the sly. Journalists do this sort of thing all the time if they want to artificially inflate (or decrease) a players value to suit the tenor of their piece.

So it is okay to speculate about him coming back based on nothing but not okay to speculate he won't come back based on his history. Who the feck are you to tell anyone what they can and can't post?


No it is not weird to talk in both pounds and euro's you just want it to be to score points.

 

[JustAFan]

I think when you are continually using sarcasm as a tool during a discussion it's not exactly conducive to a good natured debate. But enough, it looks as though we're signing Lukaku so maybe we'll all have better things to do than discuss hypothetical situations about a player that hasn't even been linked with a return to us.

Jesus on post telling people they are not allowed to bring up their own opinion. Then this. Absolute horror show from you in this thread.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

So it is okay to speculate about him coming back based on nothing but not okay to speculate he won't come back based on his history. Who the feck are you to tell anyone what they can and can't post?

Firstly I certainly haven't told anybody what they can and can't post. Secondly I clearly stated that I understood the viewpoint that he won't come back based on his history, and admitted that it was more likely. I was explaining that one viewpoint was opening up debate, the other was shutting it down - but you clearly don't want to even try to understand.

No it is not weird to talk in both pounds and euro's you just want it to be to score points.

Your opinion is your opinion.

Jesus on post telling people they are not allowed to bring up their own opinion. Then this. Absolute horror show from you in this thread.

When and where has this happened? Again, it is not the opinion that is the problem, it is stating it as though it is a fact and effectively saying 'end of debate'.

 

[VorZakone]

Any reasons for why Hernandez had an underwhelming 16/17? I saw Leverkusen ended up 12th in the Bundesliga.

 

[JustAFan]

Thank god for the ignore button, makes my reading here so much better.

 

[JustAFan]

Any reasons for why Hernandez had an underwhelming 16/17? I saw Leverkusen ended up 12th in the Bundesliga.

Could be the other way around, maybe they ended up 12th because he had a poor season. And just to keep Ruffian calmed down, yes I am talking hypothetically here so keep your panties unbunched.

 

[mitchmouse]

Then you weren't watching the games properly. His demeanour and effort was noticeably different

or he was carrying an injury, but I presume you have inside sources at the club so bow to your greater knowledge

 

[Steven Seagull]

or he was carrying an injury, but I presume you have inside sources at the club so bow to your greater knowledge

I don't need inside information to see somebody isn't trying as hard.

 

[DanBorja]

Any reasons for why Hernandez had an underwhelming 16/17? I saw Leverkusen ended up 12th in the Bundesliga.

Team was awful, coach getting the boot, injuries for hernandez, bellarabi & calhanoglu. Hernandez on a personal started great then had a couple of bad games, then got injured, then the new manager came and started leaving chico on the bench leading to some bad attitudes by chico who at the time was breaking up with his gf.

Mediocre season at best. Seems like an on & off player season-wise.

1st season at United - Great
2nd season at United - Meh
3rd season at United - Great
4th season at Moyes United - Bad
5th at Madrid - Good (just ask any real madrid fan)
6th at Leverkusen - Great
7th at Leverkusen - Meh

 

[Kidders]

On the assumption that Lukaku is done and Morata is history, I think we need another striker who won't mind playing second fiddle, Chicharito? Maybe but what about Dzeko ?

 

[mitchmouse]

I don't need inside information to see somebody isn't trying as hard.

in which case, you mean to presume that

 

[mitchmouse]

On the assumption that Lukaku is done and Morata is history, I think we need another striker who won't mind playing second fiddle, Chicharito? Maybe but what about Dzeko ?

Aguero

 

[Kidders]

Aguero

Iheanacho might be a good shout ?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Interesting that Chelsea are apparently going for Llorente. I can imagine the uproar on here if we missed out on our main target and turned our attention to a guy that was at Swansea last season, and scored 4 goals for Sevilla the season before...