Ye, we have missed out on some ridiculous options due to our insistence on sticking with our mistakes. There is no pressure on the board though, not enough noise from the fans or the media for Ole to go and the board don't have the foresight to see what's going on until it's absolutely obvious, which will, as always, be too late.
Why are United fans so oblivious to importance of good managers?
- Thread starter MuFc_1992
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Ye, we have missed out on some ridiculous options due to our insistence on sticking with our mistakes. There is no pressure on the board though, not enough noise from the fans or the media for Ole to go and the board don't have the foresight to see what's going on until it's absolutely obvious, which will, as always, be too late.
Klopp said Woodward approached him and he turned us down prior to joining Liverpool.
Pep sadly was promised to City from very early on. They clearly knew one day he'd be their man as they even brought in the board guys from Barca to make it happen.
But those are the two clubs we can't get managers off. Never ever ever can they either manage us now. So what can be done about it? All we can hope is that both don't fancy living in the UK for much longer because if they do we are in for many more years of torment sadly.
Does look like Pep is going at the end of next season as he's already said he wants another break. Klopp? Who knows.
A change in manager is a good cure when the root problem is a bad manager. When the root problem is a badly run club, changing the manager is likely to just lead to the appointment of another bad manager. And even if it doesn't, the good manager will get dragged down and become a bad manager.
But those clubs had a foundation that made those managers want to come. Either could have come to Old Trafford and chose not to.
But those clubs had a foundation that made those managers want to come. Either could have come to Old Trafford and chose not to.
What a daft way to look at it.
Tuchel is gonna give it a right good go, and loads of people like yourself were shitting on the suggestion of him too being suggested as a Ole replacement when he was at PSG.
Just throw in the towel cause these guys are class is bizarre.
The club is spending like mad and just had a Summer we were all wanking over, the manager here now has excellent conditions to succeed.
Just because Moyes was wank (expected) and Mourinho has proven since 2016 in 4 jobs that his mojo has gone isn’t a reason to make out no manager can succeed here. With hindsight we’ve made 4 hilariously bad managerial appointments, 3 if Ole’s sole job was to help with stability after 3 shocking appointments and scattergun transfer strategy.
Chelsea didn't concede and within a year have so far won a CL off Pep and are very much in the title race. This is a defeatist way to look at this. Going off this logic, if we can't win anyway, might as well bring in a progressive coach, at least we can enjoy watching the football we play, rather than a manager like Ole whose style of play will live or die by the results, which supposedly won't be good enough anyway.
Not even remotely close to what I said or the point I made. Just that the club's with the best managers have been the most successful over the years.
Yes I get that. But the point is still, great teams have great managers, right? Getting them there isn't as simple as "Hey, sign for us?" But the point is still true?
Are Liverpool a well run club? Lack of significant investment for a number of seasons and an ageing squad. They're doing so well because of having a great manager but they're not an example of how a club should be run by any means. Most clubs (bar the sugar daddy clubs) are being run for profit but at least now it seems United has more of a footballing structure in place that is making good use of the funds made available and I think a lot of managers would fancy a crack at this squad.
What the heck are you talking about? This forum is well moderated, I rarely see a locked thread and it only happens, in my experience, when there are duplicate threads. If you want 500 threads to moan about the manager you need to go to twitter.
Is that the negativity so many people complain about following a bad result?
You have a point, but sticking your head in the sand makes sure, things don't get better. The club made a few good decisions in the past, after making a few bad ones before. Lets hope it is the start of a positive trend. But we should never stop to aspire the best.
said this the day he got the job full time - the club having said they'd wait until the end of that season
On the day Ole got the job, I listed a handful of good/great players who failed as managers and was swamped with "Ole is a legend" b/s. I mean we might as well have appointed Steve Bruce or Mark Hughes or, lawd love him, Gary Nev! We would never have done that, so why the hell did we give Ole the job?
Since then we've seen PR and spin and fog and darkness to ry to persuade us that it's going to work (or actually is working). Clearing up a toxic atmosphere (if indeed there was one) can be solved by sacking the person responsible and moving on. Lots of people say Ole came in and did that, but surely there's rather more to being a manager than that.
Frankly, it smacks of arrogance from the board that they believed a guy who failed at Cardiff would succeed at United. I said back then all that would happen is peopl would be calling for Ole's head and it would threaten his legend status with the club. And here we are...
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This is exactly it. The self-proclaimed 'Top Reds' are arguably one of the worst types of our fans.
It's not the league winning that is the problem though. It's the fact that our team looks very disjointed and we don't have an organized plan of attack or defense. We still have the same issues 3 years into Ole's reign.
Most posters on here would simply be happy if we looked like a well coached team that shows consistent signs of improvement and our coaching staff working on our weaknesses. If we actually mounted a serious challenge and gave our all versus when we fold like a pack of cards once the pressure to win is on. Say we played like Brighton or Ajax, I assure you the number of complaints would have gone down by 80%.
People don't necessarily hate Ole, they hate what United has become under Ole despite all the good things that he brought.
Any manager can do that. Moyes apparently wanted Bale, Kroos and umpteen other players. It's not Football Manager.
You don't have to be a footballing genius to suggest signing one of the most decorated players in the world in Varane, and one of the most highly rated young players in Sancho. Although with Sancho, he doesn't seem to know what to do with him.
And if he's driving transfers - what about Van De Beek? He either didn't want him (which suggests he isn't making the decisions), doesn't know how to get the best out of him, or worse, has signed an absolute dud who's not up to it.
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I don't get this. Are you saying that because other teams have top managers, there's not point trying to improve?
Firstly, the issue (in my opinion) is not whether we win the league. It's whether we're mounting a proper challenge. And secondly, either of those (and in my view especially Conte) would make a much better fist of it, with that squad.
They’ve been a shit run club for decades, and even after the ridiculous success of Klopp they’ve failed to really back him. The CB shitshow last season was pure comedy.
And SAF is another piece of proof that a great manager can deal with any owners or ownership model.
I read (and it may not, of course, be true) that Ole has said once again that he is the man to get the best from the squad. He sounds like a guy trying to convince himself, one of those guys who's been to those awful American meetings where some fraudster teaches you how to be super confident and assures you that being super confident means you will succeed.
Twaddle and drivel...
Twaddle and drivel...
Not really. I am saying there's no point changing just for the sake of it.
If changing manager was the only issue why are we now on our 5th manager post Fergie?
It there was an undisputed world class coach available who I genuinely thought could be the answer then fair enough. However I fail to see one right now. I don't want Conte or Zidane personally.
People are so desperate to see Ole go they are just throwing any name into the fire and just watch how that ends up. We will be back to square one and they will all disappear under their rocks.
I'd swap Ole for Pep in a heartbeat. Isn't going to happen though is it?
But would you swap him for Tuchel? Oh wait, according to you clowns, he wasn't good enough; he's no Pep. Hey, we can't get the best, so let's continue waddle in mediocrity. Sounds good.
It's obvious the Glazers and their banker prioritize revenue stability over football reasons. It'd be quite hilarious when Ole ends another season with no trophies despite having the second most expensive squad in the entire world.
When city won the premiership in 2012, on goal difference. Fergie said " this won't happen again" and brought in Van Persie who scored us the goals.
We won the Premiership in 2013 by 11 clear points. That's what GREAT managers do.
I would bet my House that Fergie would have made sure to bring in a Top midfielder or 2 last summer.
The heartbeat of every great team is the midfield where games are dominated.
We won the Premiership in 2013 by 11 clear points. That's what GREAT managers do.
I would bet my House that Fergie would have made sure to bring in a Top midfielder or 2 last summer.
The heartbeat of every great team is the midfield where games are dominated.
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I follow my home town club few times a year here in SE asia. Its quite low level league. The players aren't all that good but are professionals. Technically miles behind UTD squad but they have a very coherent ways of playing and the kinda silly school boy passes and errors are quite rare. That was when i began to suspect the problem has to be at least partially coaching. But then, we knew most of these players before joining us, they were better than this, so that's how i understood this mostly must be coaching. You really need to see low level technical players playing amazing football sometimes to understand what's wrong with us.
When Tuchel took over Chelsea we were in touching of distance of going top. In fact we did go top of the league in January.
Should we have sacked a manager right then? Start making sense and then come back.
What you seem to be saying is that unless the very best is available, you may as well stick with someone who's essentially, not good enough.
Conte, the last time he was in the PL, won it, and won it well. Clearly, he is an improvement and in my opinion it's hard to argue that he wouldn't do a better job given his pedigree and experience. There are (by any sensible standard) better managers out there, who are available. Whether you like them or not isn't the point.
There is no "answer" - no manager is a guaranteed success. And I am not desperate to see the manager go, more so being realistic that he looks completely out of his depth.
When we look past the romance of it all, and the admittedly good start he had, objectively looking at his record he had done nothing to deserve the job. He's done nothing since to suggest he's going to be good enough to challenge for the top trophies or take us to the next level. With the players he has - especially those brought in this summer, he has to challenge. As it stands, in mid-October we're already off the pace.
He issue now is that he has to deliver given the investment and the players he has and under the pressure, he looks increasingly lost. The Ronaldo factor is huge, because if he's unhappy, he isn't going to sit quietly by and waste the last few years of his top level career fighting for fourth in the PL.
There's more to it than that. Do you think Conte is a good fit for the Glazers, Woodward and co. I honestly couldn't think of a worse fit for our club on how it is run. He falls out with everyone as it is. Conte will never succeed here.
The problem is not just the midfield though. It’s upfront , it’s in defence, it’s in the structure of our play and one midfielder ain’t going to solve that if the guys in front of them continue doing the same rubbish.
I’m not saying we can’t upgrade on midfield but more than just that needs to change. Possesion, tempo and intensity of off the ball work. Too many people standing around watching the ball than giving options or causing problems. The dodeling and just generally being wasteful with the ball. Bruno, Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Lingard Bissaka, Shaw are as responsible for the poor approach play as whomever is in the midfield duo because they seem to play without any structure. It’s all just whimsical reactions from the looks of it.
I agree that there are tactical issues that are stopping us from being fluid but the midfield issue is also top of the list. The midfielder is always the one with the most touches, passes etc so I think it doesn't help to have a situation where your deepest midfielders are amongst the biggest culprits in losing possession either through blind passes or through poor first touch.
I also think that amongst our issues is the manager's ideological disdain of possession football's basic principles e.g I remember him and/or his former team mates referring to good possession play as tippy tappy. I think this attitude is at the root of our players' growing carelessness in possession especially the tendency to force every pass to be a killer ball even when it's not on.
Possession football helps tire out opponents and ensures that the defense isn't under constant pressure. We should be doing more to utilize it.
What on earth are you talking about?
I think he'd do a far better job with the team and he'd know what he was taking on if he took the job and would be expected to work within it.
Last summer the club brought in Ronaldo, a world cup winning centre-back who's won everything in the game and one of the most highly rated young players in the world. The squad is a good squad.
In what way will the owners and Woodward (as long as he's still around) impact what he can do with the squad he has?
He may not be a likeable man and he may fall out with people. Plenty of good managers are like that. He's a winner and he's won everywhere he's been. No appointment in modern football is long term.
To be honest, if the argument for keeping a manager is that the perfect replacement isn't available, that's already accepting that the person in charge isn't good enough.
I'll never understand the mentality of accepting mediocrity. The arguments that there's nobody better or more suitable out there I just don't accept. I've seen people say on here that we won't find anyone to compete with Pep, Klopp or Tuchel. Only one of those was properly proven at the very highest level before they took on their current role. How come clubs like Chelsea can sack managers when they fail, identify talent and succeed and United can't? The club seem stuck in a perpetual state of having a chance to appoint a particular manager, deciding not to and watching them succeed elsewhere.
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If I may say so, they all showed that before they were appointed..
I’m very far from a Ole fan, I think he’s reached his peak as far as progressing to a top top team to challenge for title. He just doesn’t have the ability. However, the last 2 weeks have been embarrassing, the character assassination on every sports news site and article has been on another level. From Fergie being upset about Ronaldo not starting to a supposed spat with Cavani, to a spat with Donny. The media are having a field day trying to make it look like he’s losing control. I’m not sure he’s going to be able to survive the onslaught
I mean is it really on the media if those things are actually happening? Sounds to me the responsibility lies with the players and ole.
They did the same thing for lampard and mourinho
I'm not sure it's that fans are oblivious to the importance of a good manager :
It's more the fans going after a manager like Jose Mourinho and then 3 years later pretending like they never really asked for it. It's kind of happening now with some of their choices.
The same thing with Sancho and transfers. Everyone wanted him. Now he hasn't had the beat of starts some are backing off already - some are saying that we should have signed a CDM instead. Pretending like we never asked for it.
It's more the fans going after a manager like Jose Mourinho and then 3 years later pretending like they never really asked for it. It's kind of happening now with some of their choices.
The same thing with Sancho and transfers. Everyone wanted him. Now he hasn't had the beat of starts some are backing off already - some are saying that we should have signed a CDM instead. Pretending like we never asked for it.
They're not oblivious, it's that they're not myopic enough to think that a "good manager" will override all the other weaknesses at the club.
Why are some Man Utd fans oblivious to the importance of patience and stability?
Perfect guy ? Really ? What is so perfect about him ? No manager is perfect
Is that patience never ending? Is stability better than success? I suspect that top players and managers believe that it isn't.
Looking back, If United had appointed a manager unconnected to the club who had won the league in Norway and been relegated from the PL, there'd have been uproar. In fact, it wouldn't ever have happened. The stark reality that he isn't up to the job is becoming ever more obvious, now the romance of it has all died down. And if anyone is honest, it's not, actually, that much of a surprise.
He's been here long enough to make an impact, and this summer he's arguably been given three world class players, yet the side looks no better. We look simple to play against - sit deep, soak up the pressure, hit on the break. He dithers instead of being brave enough to make big calls in games, usually waiting until it's too late to have any effect or change the pattern of the game. He's been dug out by individual performances repeatedly since his appointment.
What exactly are people seeing that makes them think he has the ability to turn this around, other than blind hope?
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Because it doesn't exist in world football.
Patience and stability are fine.
Mediocrity and playing without any plan for 3 years aren't.
I'm convinced some of you would rather finish 3rd/4th every year with Ole instead of winning a title every 4 years with a real manager.
Tbh I feel a bit for him too. He had brought us back from the shamble post Mourinho, assembled a squad capable of winning the title, got the first actual chance to prove he could win big silverwares and imo the signing of Ronaldo has made things much more complicated for him. But he doesn't help himself either after how he treated Cavani and the story of he promised DVB game time when DVB wanted to go on loan.
Anyway, if he want to succeed at a club as big as United sooner or later he'll have to deal with issues like Ronaldo. Or to deal with the pressure and especially the media. If he can't he is simply not good enough I think.