Quite simply the Glazers are not willing to outspend City or, more importantly, restructure the club to put football first. They have no intention of even trying. Fourth is fine.
Doubt it, should never have been in that competition at all.Everything is about winning trophies. If De Gea had just saved one penalty and Man utd won the Europa, then people would be saying that the club is making progress with Ole.
Everything is about winning trophies. If De Gea had just saved one penalty and Man utd won the Europa, then people would be saying that the club is making progress with Ole.
Fat pay cheques is exactly what Pogba wants. The fact hes holding out and isnt satisfied with the one on the table
I want Pogba to go but I can't blame him for holding out. He's 28 now and it's going to be his last big contract, at least in Europe and seeing how we keep giving ludicrous contracts to players why shouldn't he push his luck? Especially if no one else wants/can afford him.Fat pay cheques is exactly what Pogba wants. The fact hes holding out and isnt satisfied with the one on the table
I agree with most of what you've written and I feel that our real complaint about the Glazers shouldn't be about money we've spent or some model we have - but about the fact they've been unable to put in place the people who would select the right manager. Whatever we've tried has been not been successful, or successful enough, in four attempts.
However, while we obviously struggle to sell players - I think we have a bigger issue: Some weird fear of letting players go for free. We keep giving new contracts to fringe players. Maybe it's an attempt to keep some value attached to them to we can cash him on them, but if we fail to sell them we are just stuck with them.
Certain people would certainly argue that case, but it could also be argued that ending up in the Europa league again points to not making progress. Comfortably making it to the latter stages of the CL every season would give me more confidence in the manager than winning the Europa league every season.Everything is about winning trophies. If De Gea had just saved one penalty and Man utd won the Europa, then people would be saying that the club is making progress with Ole.
And yet we act like this is just a random coincidence. It's not. And Ole's replacement will be equally unable to do anything to win silverware. Because the problem is not the manager. The manager is a symptom.
Quite simply the Glazers are not willing to outspend City or, more importantly, restructure the club to put football first. They have no intention of even trying. Fourth is fine. Wenger did this every season for years and it worked very well.
Had City not become an oil state's PR bauble, we probably would have been champions last season and also under Jose. The world has changed from SAF's day and winning the league may be beyond us. Just dreaming that a superstar manager is going to waltz in and make it all work seems a bit simplistic. If that were the case it would have been done long ago.
And yes I know it happened at Liverpool. But Liverpool is run as a sports club, not as a cash machine. That's why Klopp went there and not here.
Everything is about winning trophies. If De Gea had just saved one penalty and Man utd won the Europa, then people would be saying that the club is making progress with Ole.
Seeing a lot of "after 3 years" and arguments along the line of different things having been consistently not good enough throughout those three years etc.
Which I think is very sloppy thinking. We were a completely different team in 2019 than we are now. How we've been in those 3 years seen as a whole is not important. And if anyone thinks that we are anything other than a much different and a much better team now than we were in the spring of 2019, you need your memory checked. If you think you've been seeing the same thing for three years, then sorry, you've lost it. You haven't.
What's important is where we'll be this season and next. It's fine to think we should be seeing something better than we currently are (I do too), but let's not forget that's about questioning progress. This has been a process and even if things do pick up, we're probably not at the end of it yet.
The only thing that's changed in the last 3 years is we now have better players for which Ole and the club deserve credit but that's where the difference ends. The tactics (or lack of) are the same ever since Ole signed as permanent manager.
But when will it ever end? Last season we all said we need a player on the right. We bought Sancho. We said we need a better CB to accompany Maquire. We got Varane. A lot of people said we need an out and out striker , we got Ronaldo. That's 2 WC players for their positions and a potential WC talent in Sancho. Like I said before players need time to settle but not on the level we've been witnessing this season with our performances.That is because the players aren't being bought to fit an overall style of play. The style of play is being determined by the available players which is why it is so disjointed and basic. Ultimately we are over reliant on individual brilliance which makes routinely grinding out wins quite hard.
But when will it ever end? Last season we all said we need a player on the right. We bought Sancho. We said we need a better CB to accompany Maquire. We got Varane. A lot of people said we need an out and out striker , we got Ronaldo.
We did need those things. Arguably we did not need a striker because Cavani came good, but Ronaldo is an upgrade. But we also need a defensive midfield so the whole thing hangs together and doesn't misfire, leaving us constantly vulnerable on the break.
But the deeper issue is that we do not have the pattern of high press play that the most successful teams have. And yes that does require a much better manager than Ole. But it also requires a different set of players bought with that purpose. And therefore it ultimately requires owners who are willing to put success on the field ahead of short term financial decisions.
If it were as easy as going to the manager shop and buying the delux version, we would have done it already.
I can't believe young hungry players like Greenwood, Rashford or Sancho can't be taught the art of the high press. It's like anything in life. The more you practise a thing the more natural it becomes but when you look at our players chasing after a ball it's really quite comical. It's every man for himself with zero patterns which is why it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the players start to get pissed off which will be the start of Oles downfall.
This is why I asked when will it ever end? We needed to fill 4 important positions on the pitch and we filled 3 of them with very little effect, which makes me doubt signing a DM is suddenly going to turn us into serial PL or CL winners. It's the whole system failing and not just in 1 position.
It has always irked me that some United fans refuse to believe that managers have levels just like players and you simply can't win with average manager who has no plan and tactical nous. We've seen the likes of Klopp, Pep etc. build teams that play identically dominating brands of football across multiple leagues. It's as if they have some sort of formula, a secret recipe that if given time and adequate resources will definitely result in successful teams that dominate games and win silverware. Why are some United fans and the board completely oblivious to this?
It has always irked me that some United fans refuse to believe that managers have levels just like players and you simply can't win with average manager who has no plan and tactical nous. We've seen the likes of Klopp, Pep etc. build teams that play identically dominating brands of football across multiple leagues. It's as if they have some sort of formula, a secret recipe that if given time and adequate resources will definitely result in successful teams that dominate games and win silverware. Why are some United fans and the board completely oblivious to this?
We dont know if that amount is whats on the table, but if Pogba can be got on a free PSG for example can offer a lot more. Maybe Madrid, where he really wants to go.Who’s offering him more than £400k a week for (probably) five years?
I agree. Hes been here 6 years and won 3 minor trophies. Hes won more at International level. This is his last hurrah. He wants a crack at winning a league and Ch league.I want Pogba to go but I can't blame him for holding out. He's 28 now and it's going to be his last big contract, at least in Europe and seeing how we keep giving ludicrous contracts to players why shouldn't he push his luck? Especially if no one else wants/can afford him.
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And yes I know it happened at Liverpool. But Liverpool is run as a sports club, not as a cash machine. That's why Klopp went there and not here.
It is at least confirmed that United approached Klopp and he was not convinced by Woodwards pitch (especially when you consider Disneyland as the ultimate entertainment cash machine): https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man...d-red-devils-crazy-/6cb0l4ouw9y41byr0p01z7lfdThis is just 100% speculation. Just because they hit jackpot with Klopp, doesn't mean they run as "sport club" more than United do. Do you think the same when SAF was here under Glazer and we were winning stuff, while Liverpool was huffing and puffing?
It is at least confirmed that United approached Klopp and he was not convinced by Woodwards pitch (especially when you consider Disneyland as the ultimate entertainment cash machine): https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man...d-red-devils-crazy-/6cb0l4ouw9y41byr0p01z7lfd
Okay, but you have to take into account is that when Woodward approached Klopp, Klopp had his comfy job at Dortmund. Things got sour after that and he wanted to leave. That's when Liverpool approached him. I'm sure he would have picked us at that point over Liverpool had Woodward approached him, but we went with Van Gaal and didn't look back. Obviously a mistake on our part, but it's not like he rejected us over Liverpool.It is at least confirmed that United approached Klopp and he was not convinced by Woodwards pitch (especially when you consider Disneyland as the ultimate entertainment cash machine): https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man...d-red-devils-crazy-/6cb0l4ouw9y41byr0p01z7lfd
This is just 100% speculation. Just because they hit jackpot with Klopp, doesn't mean they run as "sport club" more than United do. They are one manager away to be back to a mere Top 4 club.
Do you think the same when SAF was here under Glazer and we were winning stuff, while Liverpool was huffing and puffing?
Klopp is speaking out of his ass with this, as he is often inclined to do. I'm the last person who'd defend the Glazers, but the reality is that he didn't go to Liverpool because "muh project", he went there because Liverpool were the ones who offered him the job at the right time. Even if Woodward gave him the best pitch possible, I doubt Klopp would have left Dortmund at the time. Klopp strikes me as a loyal guy who wouldn't abandon the club who gave him such an opportunity. So it doesn't exactly matter what gimmicky pitch Ed gave him, he wasn't coming here at that particular time no matter what. Obviously afterwards he'd cozy the scousers with the typical "it was my dream to play/be manager here" stuff, but the situation is obvious. Our only fault seems that afterwards Ed seems to have given up on the pursuit. And tbf, Klopp was coming off a very shaky season, despite his accomplishments, so it's not entirely unreasonable.SAF had control of transfers. SAF did not have to go up against clubs with almost zero financial constraints. He would not have won that many titles if it were otherwise.
I agree the dippers got lucky with Klopp and will go back to mediocrity once he's gone. But still he went there so he must have felt they were a serious project.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...eague-final-real-madrid-a8367236.html?r=98486
“They took me like I am, they didn’t ask me to do anything else, so I could focus from the first day completely on football.
“It is a football club. A FOOTBALL club.
“I had talks with other clubs and they didn’t sound like a football club. It sounded like marketing, image, you need to sign this, you need to sign that. And I thought ‘wow, that’s not the game I love’.”
He's talking about Ed, obviously.
Klopp is speaking out of his ass with this, as he is often inclined to do.
Well no offence but I'm going with what he said, not what you say. Sounds completely plausible to me. Given that the Glazers appointed Ole they pretty much proved him right. Foootball is not their priority. And that is the fundamental problem, not Ole's poor grasp of coaching.
That said you are right about timing. If Ed had really wanted him , he would have timed it better.
All of Moyes, Vangle, Mourinho and Ole have, in one way or another, shown that they weren't up to the task long before the fans became "suitably impatient".
I’ve always thought this, the discussion has always been spoken about as rather informal. A kind of information gathering exercise.Klopp is speaking out of his ass with this, as he is often inclined to do. I'm the last person who'd defend the Glazers, but the reality is that he didn't go to Liverpool because "muh project", he went there because Liverpool were the ones who offered him the job at the right time. Even if Woodward gave him the best pitch possible, I doubt Klopp would have left Dortmund at the time. Klopp strikes me as a loyal guy who wouldn't abandon the club who gave him such an opportunity. So it doesn't exactly matter what gimmicky pitch Ed gave him, he wasn't coming here at that particular time no matter what. Obviously afterwards he'd cozy the scousers with the typical "it was my dream to play/be manager here" stuff, but the situation is obvious. Our only fault seems that afterwards Ed seems to have given up on the pursuit. And tbf, Klopp was coming off a very shaky season, despite his accomplishments, so it's not entirely unreasonable.
I guess that discussion with Woodward was before they made anything formal. Like you say, get to know each other and check if there is a possibility. I don't think the talks went further than that, that fits that Klopp said he decided to stay in Dortmund, but not that he turned down a formal offer.I’ve always thought this, the discussion has always been spoken about as rather informal. A kind of information gathering exercise.
Klopp is rather outspoken, has he ever said he turned down the job? I’ve seen the marketing comments but its always sounded to me like a head hunting situation where you’re invited in & shown the best of a company but there’s no offer.
The Glazers also appointed Solskjaer on a permanent basis after the result massively improved. Now, you can blame their lack of football knowledge and that they weren't able to look deeper. But I don't see how you can blame their intentions.
He could only have timed it better to when Klopp didn't have a job. And when that happened, in the summer of 2015, we weren't looking to replace LVG.
If he was ambitious he would have made it his long term goal. City were that clinical about their pursuit of Pep. Because their owners wanted to dominate the EPL and win the CL. Our owners don't really care.
I really don't remember any club working on a future manager like City did with Pep.
You can blame United for a lot of things. Believing too much in LVG, not looking towards the future, not being proactive enough, not understanding football enough. But I'd say our failings are not due to bad intentions or lack of caring.
Liverpool sacked a manager who took them to within an inch of the title to bring in a better manager.
City replaced a manager that won them the fecking title to get Pep.
If anything Liverpool are the example that Souness, Dalglish, and Roy Evans appointments are based on romantic bollocks. Once you start employing the best available and are prepared to move quick on available managers, you’ll more likely get back to the top that way.
