Chelsea didn't just buy Lukaku last summer?Klopp brought in world s most expensive defender most expensive goal keeper that time to make them winners. mane Keita fabinho salah thiago jota chamberlene and two defenders worth some 400 million talents.Its on par with ole spending.
Coutinho sales means he spent within oh great but what you will say tuchel s spending then.He didn't even spend a single penny yet..In fact Chelsea in negative spending.
Who you rate the highest Pep, Klopp or Tuchel?
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Its not defensive mate. Just stayed facts that klopp didn't develop all those players within. They spent some 400 mn on transfers since klopp took over. I knew it's not equal with city United or Chelsea spending but why would he since they performed well.
Yes of course.So why bring in coutinho money for klopp spending not fair.
Are you alright? You said Tuchel didn't spend a single penny yet, now you admit he did spend money (on Lukaku).
Klopp, unfortunately. He's proven more than once he can build teams and perform with limited resources.
Chequebook Pep can do it only when the conditions are perfect.
Tuchel has yet to show anything special, though he hasn't really had a huge amount of opportunities. We will have to wait a few more years to say.
Chequebook Pep can do it only when the conditions are perfect.
Tuchel has yet to show anything special, though he hasn't really had a huge amount of opportunities. We will have to wait a few more years to say.
I am saying in context that klopp spending big because coutinho money. By using same logic tuchel didn't even spend single penny since he sold more than lukaku money. Of course lukaku 100 mn purchase but Chelsea sold more than that.
Okay but just to be clear, I never made an implication that Tuchel is a 'big spender'.
For all those who keep repeating the same bullshit like "Pep has only succeeded when he has the best teams or the most expensive team", what happened in his first season at Barcelona when they won everything (after ending the season 19points behind Madrid and not winning anything for 2 years before he arrived)? I'm sure someone will quickly bring out the hindsight "generational talents" argument...
I argued the gap between Pep and Tuchel is larger than the gap between Tuchel and Di Matteo. Apparantly this made me insane, but, trophy wise it's really no contest and they're basically the same age.
Tuchel is doing well, but he's nowhere near Pep. Klopp is closer to him obviously, but the bald cnut has won like 10 league titles, 2 CL's and I'm guessing quite a few domestic cups. Yes he has money to spend, but everyone would love to only work at the richest clubs. It's not like Mou is slumming it at Roma, because he rejected PSG, Bayern and Juventus. These clubs just stop asking you after some failures. Either way, Tuchel won his league title with the richest club in history of all sports in a league that's hardly better than the Eredivisie.
Please for the love of God don't miss take this for me being a fan of Pep. Feel that needs pointing out. He's obviously a poor man's Arne Slot.
Tuchel is doing well, but he's nowhere near Pep. Klopp is closer to him obviously, but the bald cnut has won like 10 league titles, 2 CL's and I'm guessing quite a few domestic cups. Yes he has money to spend, but everyone would love to only work at the richest clubs. It's not like Mou is slumming it at Roma, because he rejected PSG, Bayern and Juventus. These clubs just stop asking you after some failures. Either way, Tuchel won his league title with the richest club in history of all sports in a league that's hardly better than the Eredivisie.
Please for the love of God don't miss take this for me being a fan of Pep. Feel that needs pointing out. He's obviously a poor man's Arne Slot.
Exactly. Pep needs players that are good on the ball not necessarily players that are the best or world class. Displacing Joe Hart who was a club legend and bringing in Bravo from Barca was him trying to impose his system. He can do without a traditional central defender or striker or traditional full back or even a traditional winger but cannot do without “ball players.”
There is no evidence that he cannot park a bus but he chooses not to do it. It is easier to implement a negative football tactic than an expansive one but he never takes that “easy” route but tries to play an expansive style. It is only with hindsight that we can say his Barca team was full of superstars. He made them a super team, perhaps the most dominant of this era. He is very much a huge part of Messi’s success story.
I had the misfortune of reading this entire post.
I'm not sure what the exact debate it but, as I said I'm my post, no one can argue Tuchel being better than Pep and Klopp career wise given the latter twos successes compared to Tuchel.
In the argument of who the better manager is right now, it's much closer given Tuchels recent successes at Chelsea and taking PSG to the UCL final before that. I don't think that's controversial at all.
Similar to saying Tuchel is a better manager than Jose and Anchelotti right now, but no where near then career wise.
I've been told that I'm an excellent writer.
It was my mom who said this, but surely it counts for something.
Right now, sure, he's won the last CL after all, but Yes I was talking career wise in this particular discussion.
Like Mourinho never got to the CL final with Chelsea while Avram Grant without a coaching license did and DiMatteo actually won
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All great, but its an easy Pep for me, tuchel is getting there and it is tough but I take klopp for know, but if tuchel manages to win the league I think he will surpass klopp
Actually tuchel needed to win cl with psg but failed to one of best bayern sides ever in finals. Then tuchel took over struggling chelsea side and went onto win cl by beating one of best european sides in city. He did well as much as he could last season.
He need to prove in this league as its benchmark for football now a days. If he win league this season by beating Guardiola,Klopp and resurgent man utd. then I think many will see him highly.
Not sure how Tuchel is in this conversation, yeah he won the CL but so did Di Matteo and last season's victory was owed in part to Pep's standard Champions League meltdown.
He's got Chelsea playing well in the league so far but he still needs to prove it over a season. He won the league at PSG but who wouldn't, and his time at Dortmund was so-so before he fell out with the hierarchy there and was sacked.
I think this is fuelled in part by MOTD pundits spaffing all over Chelsea so far this season, and a general angst among United fans about not supporting a club who are happy to pull the trigger on their manager (thinking if we were to, it would magically transform us into Champions League winners).
Pep vs Klopp is an interesting one, I'd say Pep is the better tactician but Klopp is the better motivator - both however are far and away the best in their profession still working today. Klopp's achievements at Liverpool are more impressive as he had a much bigger rebuild job on his hands, and has dragged Liverpool up to be one of the best teams in Europe winning everything along the way.
I still think he's an astounding manager, but aside from records and style of play, Pep still hasn't achieved anything his predecessors haven't and has spent a feck ton of money vs. his competitors along the way.
But yeah, might as well have a thread asking who's the best out of Messi, Ronaldo and Mason Mount.
He's got Chelsea playing well in the league so far but he still needs to prove it over a season. He won the league at PSG but who wouldn't, and his time at Dortmund was so-so before he fell out with the hierarchy there and was sacked.
I think this is fuelled in part by MOTD pundits spaffing all over Chelsea so far this season, and a general angst among United fans about not supporting a club who are happy to pull the trigger on their manager (thinking if we were to, it would magically transform us into Champions League winners).
Pep vs Klopp is an interesting one, I'd say Pep is the better tactician but Klopp is the better motivator - both however are far and away the best in their profession still working today. Klopp's achievements at Liverpool are more impressive as he had a much bigger rebuild job on his hands, and has dragged Liverpool up to be one of the best teams in Europe winning everything along the way.
I still think he's an astounding manager, but aside from records and style of play, Pep still hasn't achieved anything his predecessors haven't and has spent a feck ton of money vs. his competitors along the way.
But yeah, might as well have a thread asking who's the best out of Messi, Ronaldo and Mason Mount.
What is great about Tuchel is he expects to perform and beat every team. We fell short and he puts the blame on his team selection and tactics for the game.
Aren't you still the champions of europe? Why wouldn't he.
I do not think we have the depth of City. Man Utd has some serious fire power on attack. Liverpool is still a very solid team. I have no delusions we are above the competition in squad strength. We have great squad depth for sure. We will not beat top teams with average performances. We got soundly beat by city. We went in too defensively and I hope that our manager and coaches recognize it and adapt. I think Tuchel is great at self assessment and looking at where he got it wrong.
Has to be Klopp. Does a lot with limited resources, gets the best out of his players, and plays good football.
Klopp would do a great job at City, Pep would struggle at a club like Liverpool.
Tuchel is a good manager but he hasn't done enough to come close to Klopp and Pep.
Klopp would do a great job at City, Pep would struggle at a club like Liverpool.
Tuchel is a good manager but he hasn't done enough to come close to Klopp and Pep.
I agree he's a pretty down to earth guy, but you just won europe and then spent 100m on a striker, your midfield and defence look pretty solid as well.. I never thought of you guys are underdogs.
Pep if given unlimited resources, otherwise Klopp.
I do not think of us as underdogs, but Man city does have a really impressive squad. I find it refreshing that he does not blame anyone else other than himself if the game plan was wrong. I think that this season the top 4 is going to be very tight. It will probably come down to key injuries.
The comparisions between Tuchel and Di Matteo is absolutely clueless and that's me trying to remain polite.
They lifted the same trophy but that's where the comparisions well and truly end.
Klopp was fighting for top 4 every season while conceding goals close to a Lampard Chelsea rate until he was handed £200m to bring in the best GK, CB and CDM avaliable.
Kudos for trying to remain polite, people are fairly horribly to each other on here nowadays.
I don’t actually think the two are anything alike my point was more that winning the CL doesn’t put Tuchel in the same bracket as Pep and Klopp (as certainly no one would with Di Matteo)
That said, the CL run wasn’t massively different, took over in round of 16 and played some big teams.
It was massively different. Tuchel's run set records and never was the case of a lucky win involved to get further.
Pep
Klopp
Tuchel
Klopp
Tuchel
It couldn't be more different in terms of the way it happened.
Di Matteo took over a squad on their last legs who swept up domestically and for a variety of reasons failed to get the UCL upto that point. Robbie rallied the troops but tactically he had little to no involvement in the victory, it was a mix of the gods and Cech having two of the best keeping games I've ever seen (Nou Camp and the final).
Tuchel on the other hand took over a squad that was largely not rated (when talked about compared to the top teams) who were young and also many were still awaiting their first honour in men's football (including 6 of our starting Xl in Porto). This victory was down to his tactics which had us comfortably navigate the entire knockout stage without any real scary moments.
The profile of both managers and squads and the role both parties played couldn't be more different.
Very impressed with Tuchel myself and not seeing any relevance to the Grant/Di Matteo comparisons.
Both of those took over well drilled strong sides. Grant's case is obvious, but even with Di Matteo the backbone of that team was largely the same and when the chips were down they knew how to go back to basics, to their Mourinho hard-wired essence and produce a result. Am I the only one who could see Drogba's goal coming a mile away in that final? It was post-Roman Chelsea 101.
None of that applies to Tuchel. He walked into a club that had gone on a spending spree and had a lot of underperforming high profile newbs and turned things around very quickly. That's 100% down to being a good manager, coach and tactician.
Long season ahead and plenty of opportunity for the OP to be answered convincingly (or not) but he certainly earned being in that comparison right now.
Both of those took over well drilled strong sides. Grant's case is obvious, but even with Di Matteo the backbone of that team was largely the same and when the chips were down they knew how to go back to basics, to their Mourinho hard-wired essence and produce a result. Am I the only one who could see Drogba's goal coming a mile away in that final? It was post-Roman Chelsea 101.
None of that applies to Tuchel. He walked into a club that had gone on a spending spree and had a lot of underperforming high profile newbs and turned things around very quickly. That's 100% down to being a good manager, coach and tactician.
Long season ahead and plenty of opportunity for the OP to be answered convincingly (or not) but he certainly earned being in that comparison right now.
Just said pretty much the same, except I'm not a Chelsea fan
You have a crystal ball? You might want to tell us how you came to this conclusion...
Pep already won everything his first season at Barcelona without unlimited resources, unless you want to pull out the famous "he had generational talents" hindsight argument.
A while ago, I tried to find posts on here in 2008 commenting on Pep's appointment at Barcelona. It would be interesting to see whether his success there was viewed as a foregone conclusion, back then. (It wasn't obviously but actual posts predicting his failure would be hilarious to read)
Maybe @Damien could help? I have a Kenwood juicer I could send you...
He doesn't actually blame it on his tactis though, he blames it on the players' attitude.
He says they played like they had something to lose instead of believing there's something to win, well, how come? Maybe because he put 5 defenders behind 3 central midfielders on the pitch, and no creative attackers whatsoever?
He set the players up to be defensive, he can't be surprised they play like it. And he can't be surprised that it's not a winning strategy against a Pep team.
Offcourse it wasn't a forgone conclusion, but yeah it will surely be funny to read those comments now.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing when you hear some people talking about the Barcelona team he took over.
Maybe swap unlimited resources for best squad in that case - which he has had for most if not all of his career.
He said at the end this was his plan and his fault. I took what came before as explaining what happened. Playing like you are have something to lose instead of something to win is often the approach to the game. It has worked before against Pep, I think he might have thought even more defensive would be better… but it was not.
There weren't that many posts commenting on the appointment at the time.
What garnered a lot more discussion then was Ronaldinho leaving Barcelona with one poster saying "Missing out on Ronaldinho on the cheap IMO will be like missing out on microsoft stock in the 80's. It will only end in tears of regret for those who miss out."