Sure, but knowing when and at what price to sell your best players is also a part of management (even if Klopp maybe didn't have direct final say). And he did correctly identify the gaps in his team, brought in the exact right players to close them, and got both a Champions League and a Premier League title out of it.
Who you rate the highest Pep, Klopp or Tuchel?
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Sure, but knowing when and at what price to sell your best players is also a part of management (even if Klopp maybe didn't have direct final say). And he did correctly identify the gaps in his team, brought in the exact right players to close them, and got both a Champions League and a Premier League title out of it.
That's interesting, at Arizona I think he was more mouthy and turbulent.
Absolutely agree and it's a valid question you ask (personal opinion: Madrid) but different managers thrive in different situations and the nature of the situation isn't a valid way of gauging which manager is better. It's enough to say that all 3 managers have or are on their way to excellence in their situations.
With more resources to be fair to Klopp
Yet Di Matteo won more at Chelsea in less time than Tuchel.
Klopp is top.
Exemplary job, done the right way. Measured purchases that have come off to compete with teams around him.
He has done what Pep could never do in my opinion.
Exemplary job, done the right way. Measured purchases that have come off to compete with teams around him.
He has done what Pep could never do in my opinion.
That still doesn't disregard what Klopp did in the BL and Pep in the La Liga previously.
1) Klopp
2) Pep
3)Tuchel.
Pep couldn't win the champions league with a better and rested Bayern squad. The manager before and after him won it, so there was no excuse.
2) Pep
3)Tuchel.
Pep couldn't win the champions league with a better and rested Bayern squad. The manager before and after him won it, so there was no excuse.
Yet Di Matteo won more at Chelsea in less time than Tuchel.
He's the greatest
Ancelotti and Kovac never won the cl.
Can't wait for the thread asking who's better Pep, Klopp, Tuchel or Hjulmand, after Hjulmand turns Arsenal into title challengers within 3 years
One of these names does not belong.
It is, of course, Pep. The other three all managed Mainz.
Flick and Heynckes did. Flick even did it while renewing the squad Pep left.
They hired your and our clubs’ favourite ex manager after all, so not sure about that.
Yes, but Jose has those Jedi mind tricks to get owners to forget all of his drama. As much as I do not miss him, I am always amazed at how he lands on his feet immediately.
It depends if you give the full praise to a manager for half a season's work.
Do you say Di Matteo only won 1 European cup fewer than Fergie for instance?
Heynekes didn't even win the CL when he returned after Pep.
And neither the previously crowned CL specialist Ancelotti
Heynckes did win it immediately before Pep took over. But you are right, only the fourth coach after Pep did bring Bayern the CL again (Ancelotti, Heynckes, Kovac, Flick). If you want to phrase it against Pep: It took four coaches to bring Bayern back to the CL glory they had before him
I guess it is often forgotten that Heynckes was responsible for most of 17/18, as this was less than a season and only as caretaker, never intented that to be a permanent role again.
Heynckes did win it immediately before Pep took over. But you are right, only the fourth coach after Pep did bring Bayern the CL again (Ancelotti, Heynckes, Kovac, Flick). If you want to phrase it against Pep: It took four coaches to bring Bayern back to the CL glory they had before him
I guess it is often forgotten that Heynckes was responsible for most of 17/18, as this was less than a season and only as caretaker, never intented that to be a permanent role again.
That's a great way of framing it
Not blaming Heynekes by the way either. Quality manager who helped Bayern channel the embarrassment of losing the CL to Chelsea on home ground, into a cold fury the following season
If Tuchel wins the league this year, then you would have to say that he has a good shout of being 1/2 in the list (as of now, not career as Pep has that sown up on trophy count for the foreseeable.)
If he goes on to do a back to back CL or back to back PL then he will probably be No.1 as his job at Mainz winning percentage wise was just a shade under Klopp's, whilst at Dortmund it was about 5% better and you need to consider he didn't have Lewa/Hummels etc.
That said, if you're doing overall at the moment you probably have to say 3rd.
Klopp for me is a bit of a funny one as transfer/squad building wise, I think he is probably the best as he does know how to build on a budget. Problem I have with him is that you know exactly what you're getting tactically with him and he doesn't change (people could argue, don't fix what isn't broken tbf.) In my opinion, once Klopp is done at Liverpool he should go be a director of football somewhere as I cannot see him managing another club as hasn't he said he has to speak the lingo (which rules out Spain/France/Portugal/Italy) to manage in that country?
If he goes on to do a back to back CL or back to back PL then he will probably be No.1 as his job at Mainz winning percentage wise was just a shade under Klopp's, whilst at Dortmund it was about 5% better and you need to consider he didn't have Lewa/Hummels etc.
That said, if you're doing overall at the moment you probably have to say 3rd.
Klopp for me is a bit of a funny one as transfer/squad building wise, I think he is probably the best as he does know how to build on a budget. Problem I have with him is that you know exactly what you're getting tactically with him and he doesn't change (people could argue, don't fix what isn't broken tbf.) In my opinion, once Klopp is done at Liverpool he should go be a director of football somewhere as I cannot see him managing another club as hasn't he said he has to speak the lingo (which rules out Spain/France/Portugal/Italy) to manage in that country?
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Best in terms of tactics, currently Tuchel
In terms of leadership and human touch, Klopp
Not sure if posted, but the German BBC did a nice video a few weeks ago
Tbf, the way he talks at the end about looking to his next success sounds a bit like Tom Brady. Probably a bit of a nightmare to work with but if he is given the tools most people will fall in line (although, if true, those comments about Dortmund after the bombing where beyond the mark.)
Pep requires the most conditions to win. He has to have every advantage over his league opponents and his players have to be far technically superior. He has been gifted in his team selections. I'd go Klopp as he is more versatile and can win at more teams. When Pep does what Klopp has done (take mid table Dortmund to one of Europe's best and mid table Liverpool) then we can talk. Never did I believe Klopp would actually break Liverpool 30 year duck since they were behind us when he took over. We all expected Pep to win the league with Bayern and City. Both teams had won recently. Even Barca were champions 2 seasons before Pep took over. I kinda feel he takes the easy rout and does what's expected except he hasn't been able to win a CL since Messi........
I would have to disagree with you on that or maybe I should have asked you to compare Jose’s Inter performance vs when he was at Madrid. Real Madrid was also star-studded that it was nigh impossible for them to win nothing while he was there but his reputation as the worlds best manager took a big hit because whilst he had players built for the efficient counterattacking game at his previous clubs, at Madrid, he couldn’t implement such tactic and often clashed with players because of his style.
These managers are smart guys and they clearly make choice of clubs as smartly as they can. Pep doesn’t necessarily go for the best players but he goes for players who are good on the ball. Ederson is not one of the best shot stoppers in the game but he is a Pep favourite. He would trade ability in a functional football department for a ball player any day. This is his style and he sticks to it religiously even to his detriment sometimes. There is no proof that he cannot play any other way but he just chooses that way and sticks to it by choice. Stones is a Pep player but may not be one of the legendary “defenders” of our time. His champions league shortcomings will definitely continue to haunt him.
Klopp is one that would naturally get the applause of many because of his awesome performances with less resources. In comparing the two I’d like to point out that the expectations of the respective clubs are very different. While Liverpool would normally have done brilliant if they finished second in the league only, city usually is expected to do the quadruple every passing year. That sympathy we afforded Pochettino when he always made it to top four and when he finally got lowly Spurs to the UCL finals is the exact thing we unconsciously do to Klopp and so when he does the unthinkable by lifting the UCL we are convinced that he is the greatest.
I ignore all three of them and their teams.
Great thread, great OP.
For me:
1. Klopp
2.Pep
3. Tuchel
All 3 are world class. Ole seriously up against it. Especially considering all 3 of those coaches have teams that are better balanced. They also have midfielders capable of controlling matches. Ole simply doesn't have this.
For me:
1. Klopp
2.Pep
3. Tuchel
All 3 are world class. Ole seriously up against it. Especially considering all 3 of those coaches have teams that are better balanced. They also have midfielders capable of controlling matches. Ole simply doesn't have this.
Klopp by far unfortunately - without Pep then City would still have a lot of success, though perhaps not quite as much; but without Klopp, Liverpool would be where Arsenal are.
Tuchel has surprised me a lot at Chelsea; he's also far more likeable than the other two which doesn't hurt, but lets see where he takes them from here.
Tuchel has surprised me a lot at Chelsea; he's also far more likeable than the other two which doesn't hurt, but lets see where he takes them from here.
I don't think Tuchel is in this conversation at all. Maybe in the future, but not now.
I think Pep is the most outstanding manager in the last decade and a half, but Klopp would have been a dream fit for United unfortunately.
I think Pep is the most outstanding manager in the last decade and a half, but Klopp would have been a dream fit for United unfortunately.
What makes you think that? I mean people who follow Bundesliga and German football used to say that Tuchel was extremely highly rated in terms of tactics and setting his teams up, be it at Mainz and Dortmund. Tuchel was considered by many a better coach than Klopp for example and won the CL by out-thinking Pep yet again - didn't he win 3x in a row? Once a coincidence, twice a little harder, three times it's a pattern.
Pep's a media darling but he hasn't won the trophies that matter in over a decade now.
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Sustained success at the highest level. I'd also argue that Klopp's Dortmund was an incredibly attractive footballing side and, unfortunately, so is his Liverpool side. And he's - like others have posted - worked in harder conditions than Pep. I mean the points those two teams have put on the board in the two seasons prior to the anomalous '20-'21 season, is just incredible.
Tuchel has had an outstanding introduction in the Premier League and they look really solid. But I also think part of that is hype and we've yet to see a full season under him here. Similarly, I think the hype about Lukaku is pretty extraordinary, when we know he's a good striker who can both be lethal and horrid.
Have you watched anything about Tuchel at all his previous clubs? He is a serial winner, often with less resources than his competition. I’m not going to say he is better than Klopp or Pep, yet… even though he is currently out coaching them. He definitely belongs in the conversation.
Ask the Ole fanboys... why isn't Ole in this conversation.
It's almost shameful one of the biggest clubs in the world have mediocrity running through. Appointed the manager on connectuon and nepotism. United sometimes looks like a soviet era bureaucracy.
It's almost shameful one of the biggest clubs in the world have mediocrity running through. Appointed the manager on connectuon and nepotism. United sometimes looks like a soviet era bureaucracy.
I watched his Dortmund and saw quite a bit of PSG. I'm not saying he's not a top manager. I just think the other two are in a league of their own and have been for a while now.
That’s the thing through, his career didn’t start when he joined Chelsea….
Klopp for sure. As much as I hate Liverpool I must say what he did there was truly amazing. The day he leaves they will be back to their usual shite. Chelsea and City are gonna be fine, probably even better if Tuchel or Pep leaves.
If Ole manages to win a PL or CL then I'd say he's up there with Klopp. What he's done here was already quite amazing, he only lacks some top silverware to make it top.
If Ole manages to win a PL or CL then I'd say he's up there with Klopp. What he's done here was already quite amazing, he only lacks some top silverware to make it top.
Please add a poll to the question.
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Finally, a thread with actual good discussion in the football forum and you had to be a cnut and bring in Ole bashing. And yeah, sorry Ole pissed in your cereal.
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1. Klopp
2. Pep
3. Tuchel
But if Tuchel win the league this season, he may be my number 2.
Pep is great, but unlike the other 2, with the squad he has, he didn't really achieved more than expectation.
2. Pep
3. Tuchel
But if Tuchel win the league this season, he may be my number 2.
Pep is great, but unlike the other 2, with the squad he has, he didn't really achieved more than expectation.
Ha. Sumptuous sarcasm. Let's see how he does over a full Prem season.
Sumptuous arrogance - he’s already got a CL, a few cups and championships across Europe but @Bastian remains unconvinced