Who replaces Ten Hag?
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Yep. And I'm not really in the Ten Hag camp either.
Exactly what needs to happen but will it?
Any decision should wait until the new football structure is in place. For me it would be Emery. I know he didn't do great at Arsenal but taking over from Arsene and having no experience in the league was always likely to be a struggle. He's got some real good pedigree across Europe and he's doing wonders at Villa. I'm not saying he's a world beater but there can be no question marks over his coaching ability. He'd be a very, very solid choice.
I haven’t a clue. I thought ETH the modern possession oriented manager we needed to revolutionise the way we played but based on the football and those quotes he’s another who just wants to lean into our overrated strength and the whole United counter attack DNA that’s been left behind.
Does it mean that Bruno and Rashford were a precondition to him joining or that he doesn’t truly have the vision of having us playing a progressive possession oriented style? Seems odd to place a couple of players above a manager.
Extremely unrealistic (given his affinity for Liverpool as a former player, the likelihood of him joining Real Madrid in the near future, and him being wise enough to steer clear of an enterprise spearheaded by the Glazer cohort), however we should strongly consider an up-and-comer like Xabi Alonso (even though he is not the most accomplished head coach and has not established himself as a bona fide member of the elite rung just yet). These things do not always matter but the fact that he excelled as a midfield fulcrum/conduit (from where he had a commanding view of the pitch and the general distribution of play) in a variety of schemes and leagues (ranging from proactive high-possession to reactive counter-attack, in the Premier League to La Liga) under coaches as disparate as Pep Guardiola, Carlo Ancelotti, José Mourinho, Vicente de Bosque, Luis Aragonés et cetera, and won practically everything there is to win at club or international level in modern football (including the World Cup and the Champions League) should hold him in good stead from a nut-and-bolts, temperamental and relatability standpoint(s). And as a manager he is proving himself to be perceptive, cerebral, meticulous and adaptable — while espousing clear principles of play, and seems to garner a good deal of respect from his players for his man management. Him as the head coach + Jean-Claude Blanc as Chief Executive + a bloke who is trustworthy and innovative as a talent evaluator (in conjuction with the scouting department) with a coherent long-term sporting strategy that is suited to the specific needs of Manchester United (not convinced if Mitchell is the one at this moment in time, but he is the one we are most consistently linked with) could be a competitive recipe as we embark upon another “rebulild” (hopefully, with a bifurcation of responsibilities and sensible delegation at multiple levels — instead of recklessly burdening (indulging?) the head coach, and putting all of our eggs in one basket). Even better if Wirtz tags along (for now, he is a pie in the sky target), and supplants Mr. Bruno Fernandes for good.
That's not what I got from it, there is nothing to suggest the players are forced on him, no more than the Ajax team was forced on him. He has to work with what he's given, and our team is nothing like Ajax. It does sound like he's abandoning his principles to become more pragmatic. Playing more direct is something we've all noticed.
He sounds like someone to consider one. A question though - even ETH’s Ajax played lovely posssesion football. What makes you think that for Alonso it’s a true and strong belief to play that way regardless of situation? As ETH seems to have disappointingly been someone who has been happy to play a completely different way at United.
That’s my point. If it wasn’t then if he truly wanted to he could have revamped the squad or at least 75 per cent of it, towards that possession based style, but he hasn’t - it’s been about transitions and counters, our stake ‘DNA’.
I genuinely think I'd make a good enough Director of football, and many on this forum would fit the bill. There are lot of players out there who fit the United mould that would have made sense to purchase and which we didn't go for. He might want to play the United Way but he's not buying the players which would take us there.
With "you", I could have written "we", or "our fans".
I write it drastically because I think it is such a dangerously wrong concept, that changing manager means a rebuild.
Seeing Conte genuinely being put forward as a suggestion shows just how dire the options are and why it’s all so bleak.
I'm in the 'give ETH more time' camp, though I'm increasingly miffed by his decision making around players, the fact we have little distinguishable style and how, unlike with Ole, we rarely seem to lay a glove on the big teams.
There's no manager I look at and think 'he's a nailed on United manager'. I suppose there's truth to the idea that the structural rot at United would prevent anyone doing really well for a sustained period. We're also going through an insane time when it comes to off the pitch dramas and there's no way that the team can't be affected. However, there's clearly major things that Ten Hag is getting wrong.
At the risk of being a football hipster and looking stupid in two years after he's flopped at both Sevilla and Marseille or something, I'm really intrigued by Marcelo Gallardo. From what I understand, he excelled at River Plate despite their financial situation meaning that they regularly had to sell their best players. He brought through numerous youngsters and made everyone better. Tactically, he was very adaptable with many formations and game plans, which is something we're not really seeing from Erik. I've seen people with a lot more knowledge than me claim he's one of the top managers in the world. He's been a free agent since December last year and turned several clubs down, feeling that the fit hasn't been right.
Aside from him, maybe Carlo Ancelotti is the right man. He's got a great record that everyone can respect and is superb man manager. He won't necessarily impose a clear tactical style but he's obviously not tactically inept. With this hodgepodge of players, I'd bet that Carlo could get them playing together and get us to some sort of success. Yes, it might be papering over the cracks but maybe the last thing we need is someone else to mark a distinct style on us. Carlo is the ultimate pragmatist and might be the sensible option. He's leaving Madrid at the end of the season supposedly but might have already committed to the Brazil national team so maybe this one is out.
There's no manager I look at and think 'he's a nailed on United manager'. I suppose there's truth to the idea that the structural rot at United would prevent anyone doing really well for a sustained period. We're also going through an insane time when it comes to off the pitch dramas and there's no way that the team can't be affected. However, there's clearly major things that Ten Hag is getting wrong.
At the risk of being a football hipster and looking stupid in two years after he's flopped at both Sevilla and Marseille or something, I'm really intrigued by Marcelo Gallardo. From what I understand, he excelled at River Plate despite their financial situation meaning that they regularly had to sell their best players. He brought through numerous youngsters and made everyone better. Tactically, he was very adaptable with many formations and game plans, which is something we're not really seeing from Erik. I've seen people with a lot more knowledge than me claim he's one of the top managers in the world. He's been a free agent since December last year and turned several clubs down, feeling that the fit hasn't been right.
Aside from him, maybe Carlo Ancelotti is the right man. He's got a great record that everyone can respect and is superb man manager. He won't necessarily impose a clear tactical style but he's obviously not tactically inept. With this hodgepodge of players, I'd bet that Carlo could get them playing together and get us to some sort of success. Yes, it might be papering over the cracks but maybe the last thing we need is someone else to mark a distinct style on us. Carlo is the ultimate pragmatist and might be the sensible option. He's leaving Madrid at the end of the season supposedly but might have already committed to the Brazil national team so maybe this one is out.
No coach is excellent at identifying signings these days because it is rarely their job. However its hard to imagine many being as bad as eth at it.
I am not entirely convinced by de zerbi either but there don't appear to be many options and I am not sure someone with proven pedigree but no clear tactical approach e.g. Zidane or ancelotti is a better long term bet.
You are massively downplaying de zerbis achievements as well, at Brighton he also immediately implemented a different style of play and significantly increased the number of goals they score
Who will be the caretaker, do you think? We will need someone to bridge the gap between January and the end of the season. It's not going well for Rooney at Birmingham, so... maybe him?
No one……will change this, because the manager is not the problem. It is far deeper rooted than that, have we not proved that the manager merry go round does not work.
From now on, we should set the Rule No.1 very clear from day one. No more 3 years for rebuild/set up your own team to play your style of football bullshit.
The new manager job is to come in and perform straight away. Not good enough in your first season? Sack.
This is what big club do. Only our fecking circus club give every damn manager 3 years and 500M to play thier style of play and end up being worse.
The new manager job is to come in and perform straight away. Not good enough in your first season? Sack.
This is what big club do. Only our fecking circus club give every damn manager 3 years and 500M to play thier style of play and end up being worse.
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How many top managers have to come and fail in season 2 or 3 at manutd before people accept that maybe we need to look higher up into the structure behind the manager.
If pep or klopp or de zerbi or Ange came to manutd tomorrow and 2 years down the road the performances are bad...will people finally accept to kick out people like murtough. What threshold has to be passed.
People really think pep or ange on their own can fix us...just bring them in and all will be well. Thats the crazy reality.
On the other hand, if you are saying that bringing pep and the structure behind him at mancity to manutd will fix us, then the qn is, why dont you first bring the structure behind him. Why dont we first get a world class DOF and CEO. Why do we have to gamble with people like murtough or arnold who have not succeeded in the roles they currently have elsewhere. Everything about us is gambling.
Ten Hag can thrive at manutd but he needs an experienced DOF behind him to say no, we can get you what you need for cheaper from here. The problems of todays manutd begun with allowing ten hag to sign Anthony for 80m. We spent 60m on Mount, 70m on sancho and he doesn't like playing on the RW. Before that, We spent 80m on maguire...its crazy. None of these guys are worth that and its clear they were never worth that before the deals happened.
For me, the only way to success is getting a top experienced DOF, a top manager which I think Ten Hag is and then backing that combination
If pep or klopp or de zerbi or Ange came to manutd tomorrow and 2 years down the road the performances are bad...will people finally accept to kick out people like murtough. What threshold has to be passed.
People really think pep or ange on their own can fix us...just bring them in and all will be well. Thats the crazy reality.
On the other hand, if you are saying that bringing pep and the structure behind him at mancity to manutd will fix us, then the qn is, why dont you first bring the structure behind him. Why dont we first get a world class DOF and CEO. Why do we have to gamble with people like murtough or arnold who have not succeeded in the roles they currently have elsewhere. Everything about us is gambling.
Ten Hag can thrive at manutd but he needs an experienced DOF behind him to say no, we can get you what you need for cheaper from here. The problems of todays manutd begun with allowing ten hag to sign Anthony for 80m. We spent 60m on Mount, 70m on sancho and he doesn't like playing on the RW. Before that, We spent 80m on maguire...its crazy. None of these guys are worth that and its clear they were never worth that before the deals happened.
For me, the only way to success is getting a top experienced DOF, a top manager which I think Ten Hag is and then backing that combination
If we are playing like this with the players ETH hand picked himself, imagine if other people would influence the transfers and choose different players.
Only against teams that are better then them when things become far more pragmatic - which I absolutely don't have a problem with. If we had made yesterday a dour game, kicked City off the park and won 1-0, who here would be complaining?
Against teams worse then them Atleti usually beat them comfortably and score goals in the process (Joint top scorers in La Liga this year, and were 2nd joint top scorers in La Liga last season)
That quote is puzzling to say the least. Van Gaal got us playing his system, however ineffective that system was. He got the likes of McNair, Blackett, Borthwick Jackson etc playing a certain kind of way. You can argue those players were academy players who followed instructions to the tee, well what's stopping Ten Hag from promoting the likes of Iqbal, Savage, Gore, Hannibal, Hansen-Aarøen etc and getting them to play similar to how his team used to play? Why has he persisted with players he knows can't play the brand of football he was brought in for?
He wants to talk DNA, a big part of United's DNA is taking a chance on academy players and he's not done that.
People need to also ask why we bring in managers then cut their legs off (metaphorically)
Why bring in a new manager if he can only do his job 50 per cent as well as his last because we hamstring him with a bad structure?
The managers aren't blameless but why are we asking any manager we hire to perform under dire circumstances.
Why bring in a new manager if he can only do his job 50 per cent as well as his last because we hamstring him with a bad structure?
The managers aren't blameless but why are we asking any manager we hire to perform under dire circumstances.
The issue with that is when United come knocking at least £10m is added on to the fee, and we are daft enough to pay it.
We should go back to the days when deals were done behind closed doors, and United as the buyer wasn't revealed until negotiations were well under way, and would be terminated if news of the transfer leaked out.
We also need footballing people at the top making the footballing decisions relying on men in grey suits is ridiculous, the whole system of recruiting players need an overhaul.
As a top club we used to have the best stadium in the UK, now fans in the stands take umbrella's to games!
We used to have the best training facilities, now they are among the worst in the EPL.
Players used to come to OT, stare in amazement, now they come and soon realise it's an outdated mess
What sort of motivation is it for players when from the bottom to the top the club is a mess.
You still missing the point. Ten hag clearly had a style of play he was implementing but he ditched it for this transition hoofball...why... because the manager has too much control and no one to speak to him and go "Hey, we brought you in because of XYZ...we want to see XYZ, WHY HAVE WE PIVOTED TO ABC".
Our current setup leaves the manager on his own to just do whatever he wants. Oooohh I want Anthony.....and de jong....lets wait till the end of the window because I dont want anyone else. It also allows him to randomly change the style of play on his whims... nobody really pushes back.
Ralf ragnick explained the process...and said its not that complicated. The brand of football played is determined by the clubs vision for the next few years. Then the club gets an experienced DOF who can implement that vision. Then the DOF gets a manager who plays that brand of football. Then they work together to profile players who fit the needs of the team. Then you give them time...we went cheap on the whole DOF thing and it has shown
We have a weak DOF who is the managers play toy. They only qn ten hag when they want to sack him. The DOF should be the first person to ask why he has changed the style. He should be the one to even recommend his sacking if the answers dont make sense. Inorder for us to really succeed, we must have that structure in place
There's no point in replacing ten Hag. Not yet anyway. Not until we have made the right structural changes. Why would we trust these decision makers to appoint the right man? The pattern will just keep repeating itself. As we have seen over the last decade here, no manager works out here, no player works out here. In fact, there is no right man. Not under this current regime. This is not an environment that is conducive to success. We won't get it right on the pitch, until we get it right off the pitch. Until then, suck it up.
I'm not downplaying his achievements at Brighton at all. He's had one season there, his style of play was evolution rather than revolution as they were already very comfortable on the ball, they scored (and conceded) more goals than under Potter but that's not much of an achievement by itself.
The Brighton job is entirely different to the United job; the level of expectation, the egos, the absolute mess on the above the manager and surrounding the club in general, the strangling debt, etc. Can you at least agree with that?
As for your statement about it being hard to imagine managers being worse than ETH at all identifying targets, unfortunately that's all it is, imagination, as very few managers nowadays are asked to do it.
Nope...that price thing affects all big clubs. Even mancity.. mancity walked away from declan rice...they walked away from maguire, they walked away from ronaldo and Sanchez etc. How are they doing that...they go into negotiations with profiles in mind rather than a specific player. Its not go all in or bust like manutd. They sign so many players cheaply e.g akanji or they use release clauses like they did for haarland and rodri. Thats how profiling helps...you are not stuck on a specific player....you are open to any player who fits the profile.
Manutd on the other hand is still stuck in the world of we need specific player. Even to this day, fans think we are just a todibo or a de jong away from greatness. We even believe the nonsense like there is no alternative for de jong or player xyz. We go all in for these very average players and pay huge money for them. Mount is a clear example...not only did he have 1 year left on his contract...we paid over the odds for him, paid him a big salary and then gave him the number 7. Who does that. How do you lose out on a transaction from all angles
Can we just put this at the top of the caf homepage?
You really think Man City or Liverpool would have paid the money we did for the likes of Maguire, Sancho an Mount ? C'mon pull the other one.
Maguire was never worth £80m
Bro, be honest...have you read what I wrote or you just responded. My post explains exactly why neither mancity nor Liverpool can pay that kind of money for those players...your response doesnt make sense at all
How can anyone seriously suggest him after his disaster of a spell at Spurs.
I'm sorry, what point am I missing?
Who's the current flavor of the month? Is it still De Zerbi or is he lame now?
This lot would eat him alive after a month. ETH has lost his way and has to take a lot of pelters for this season. The players mentality is shocking though. Anyone who comes in is up against it until the club rips up its current model and starts again.
Not just the manager. Top to bottom.
The issue for me is that the only one that is genuinly exciting is Xabi Alonso, but I dont think he is possible for us to get.
If the alternative is Potter then Id much rather stick with Ten Hag.
If the alternative is Potter then Id much rather stick with Ten Hag.
Maybe someone like Marco Rose could be a good option? Seems to be doing well at Leipzig and plays aggressive pressing football so at least in theory we wouldn’t need to throw away all the work that Ten Hag has done. Recently won a cup in Germany and won what I think is their version of the community shield, beating Bayern convincingly.
Replacing managers is cheaper than replacing players (especially when those players are on more than they would get anywhere else and refuse to lower those demands).
Probably the only manager I would want here, but not under this current structure. I would fully believe Carlo would put some of these players to the sword and get us playing some kind of recognisable football.
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