hehehe, yes the threat of biting someone if he gets too frustrated.
Who is better, RVP or Suarez?
- Thread starter Sir A1ex
- Start date
hehehe, yes the threat of biting someone if he gets too frustrated.
Suarez, comfortably so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIFA_Ballon_d'Or
The professionals don't agree.
FIFA Ballon d'Or
RankPlayer[10]NationalityClubVotes
1stCristiano Ronaldo
Real Madrid27.99%2ndLionel Messi
Barcelona24.72%3rdFranck Ribéry
Bayern Munich23.36%4thZlatan Ibrahimović
Paris Saint-Germain5.29%5thNeymar
Santos/ Barcelona3.17%6thAndrés Iniesta
Barcelona2.08%7thRobin van Persie
Manchester United1.79%http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIFA_Ballon_d'Or
The professionals don't agree.
FIFA Ballon d'Or
RankPlayer[10]NationalityClubVotes
1stCristiano RonaldoPortugal
2ndLionel MessiArgentina
3rdFranck RibéryFrance
4thZlatan IbrahimovićSweden
5thNeymarBrazil
6thAndrés IniestaSpain
7thRobin van PersieNetherlands
That was for 2012/2013, essentially. There's no way that RVP was the 7th best player in the world last season, for example, when he had a number of injury problems and missed a considerable number of games while Suarez was ripping the league apart.
Ballon d'Or takes place in January and voting ends in November. Ribery was in there for his work the season before too.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIFA_Ballon_d'Or
The professionals don't agree.
FIFA Ballon d'Or
RankPlayer[10]NationalityClubVotes
1stCristiano RonaldoPortugal
2ndLionel MessiArgentina
3rdFranck RibéryFrance
4thZlatan IbrahimovićSweden
5thNeymarBrazil
6thAndrés IniestaSpain
7thRobin van PersieNetherlands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIFA_Ballon_d'Or
The professionals don't agree.
FIFA Ballon d'Or
RankPlayer[10]NationalityClubVotes
1stCristiano RonaldoPortugal
2ndLionel MessiArgentina
3rdFranck RibéryFrance
4thZlatan IbrahimovićSweden
5thNeymarBrazil
6thAndrés IniestaSpain
7thRobin van PersieNetherlands
The Ballon D'or is in December is it not? For last season as a whole the majority opinion is that Suarez was the 3rd best player in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIFA_Ballon_d'Or
The professionals don't agree.
FIFA Ballon d'Or
RankPlayer[10]NationalityClubVotes
1stCristiano RonaldoPortugal
2ndLionel MessiArgentina
3rdFranck RibéryFrance
4thZlatan IbrahimovićSweden
5thNeymarBrazil
6thAndrés IniestaSpain
7thRobin van PersieNetherlands
1) Read reasons noted above
2) In no universe is Neymar the 5th best player in the world, which shows you how trustworthy that list is.
Forgive me but I just don't see it with his record against better teams. Yes, he can destroy mediocre defenses but does not really have an answer against the better teams. But I'll concede the floor if people really want to make him out to be that great a player then I'll leave you to it.
This is such rubbish and you must know it. He might not have the best of goalscoring records vs. the best sides but his all round performances in these games have been excellent. As I've already said he sacrifices himself for the team on such occasions - his hassling, creativity and desire to win are often vital in these matches.
You just need to watch him to know the myth he's bad against the good teams is rubbish. Like most big players he gets marked tightly in these games and thus doesn't score freely but he's still always a massive threat and influences the game more than Van Persie in general.
12-13 Suarez
Scored 1 against Man City, 1 vs Everton, 2 vs Chelsea, 1 vs Arsenal and 1 vs Spurs.
Other than us he scored against all the other big teams.
You wanna see one of Van Persies first big games and his influence? Against Inter Milan in the semi-finals of the Uefa Cup. The real Ronaldo was on the pitch, Materazzi, Zanetti, Seedorf, Cordoba. But an 18 year old boy playing on the left wing stole the show by giving the first assist.
It starts at 0.49
Sorry but as much as it pains me, it has to be Suarez.
I'd go with Suarez, even though it's against my better judgement. The truth is, they're both going through totally different stages of their playing career. The wise discerning man wouldn't even compare in the First place. Different stage of career, so argument becomes stagnated and needless.
Suarez's career record - just reading it on wiki to refresh my memory.. its seriously impressive. Both their records are good, but Suarez playing in lesser team both at club level and internationally.. seriously good track record excluding his record at Ajax. Excited to see the cnut at Barca.. I always thought he'd be the perfect striker for them bar Aguero. but he's a better player than Aguero.. less injury prone and way more direct.
OO wow, a single Youtube video! Well that proves it then, Van Persie is better!
Look, I'm not arguing he's a great striker and of course he's had great games. I think defences fear Suarez more though, his unbelievable will to win and harrying make him a nightmare for defenders, not to mention his ridiculous ability.
Obviously Suarez but RvP at his very, very best like 12/13 is better than Suarez imo
He just loves the bottom half.
In all his years in Europe, not once he was a champion, and nice to know that only once he scored against the Champions.
In all his years in Europe, not once he was a champion, and nice to know that only once he scored against the Champions.
By the way guys; Luis Suarez was ranked ahead of Messi and Ronaldo by Bloomberg as Europe's most influential player in 2014.
Pretty much tells you how good he was. Better than any Van Persie season.
Pretty much tells you how good he was. Better than any Van Persie season.
What is their reasoning for that? I mean, Ronaldo scored the feckton on his way to winning the Champions League, while Suarez scored the feckton against Cardiff on his way to second place in Premier League.
Erm, are you really downplaying Suarez taking a side from 7th in the League to 2nd (nearly champions) in a single year? Ronaldo scored a load of goals in the best team in the world on paper with the entire team catered to his needs. Suarez laid on a load of assists to add to his goals. He actually plays for the team, not just for himself on the pitch.
He scored the same amount of goals in a far, far worse side that isn't nearly as built around him. Seriously, the entire Madrid team just caters to Ronaldo, which is fair enough because he's exceptional but it was never done in the same way for Suarez, which is why Sturridge picked up so many goals.
Real winning the CL is far less of a shock than Liverpool finishing 2nd. That squad has massively underachieved for years now and they still managed to lose the league to a side that cost less than Bale.
Also, lolgasm if you think Ronaldo didn't score the majority of his goals against cannon fodder, not to mention a ton of penalties along the way. Take away his penalties and he scored less than Suarez in his league, as well as far less assists to boot.
Quit downplaying his incredible ability just because he hasn't played at quite the top level yet. The fact he's scoring this many goals at a relatively average side pretty much proves how incredible he is. Now he's at a top side watch him tear the CL apart as well. He hasn't been in a position to score tons of goals in big games because he's had to work far harder for the team rather than grabbing all the glory and caring only about being top goalscorer.
Never seen a forward with his aggression and will to win and like I said, this myth about him being bad in big games is ridiculous to anyone who watches him consistently. There's not a player in the world I'd fear playing more - not because he is the best (Ronaldo/Messi still on a different level) but because of how he attacks the ball. He has an immense fear factor about him, as well as an ability to score utterly ridiculous goals.
Hate on him all you want but you have to appreciate his immense footballing ability - 3rd best player in the world. Only Robben right now rivals the place in my view.
Oh yeah sure. A stat that shows Suarez was better than someone scoring 17 goals in 11 (!) games on what is truly the highest stage is a good and valid one, how nice of you to bring that up.
Ronaldo also scored 31 goals in 30 league matches last season. But since Bloomberg said Suarez is even better it's true. 17 goals in 11 CL matches, sweet Lord.
I understand you're not saying Ronaldo is better than Suarez per se, but somehow you use this to show that Suarez is better than RVP?
Suarez is more entertaining to watch and currently the better player. He goes missing against the top teams though. Both contribute a lot in terms of build-up play and both are lethal finishers. Suarez is the better dribbler, but I think RvP is the better passer of the ball. To make a long statement short, I think Suarez is better, but not by a lot. Going by RvP's last season at Arsenal and first season at United, I think he might even be better than Suarez. We'll have to wait to see next season when/if RvP can fire once more on all cylinders.
Suarez probably.
Suarez.
Long argument there...
Ronaldo is more clinical and has far better physical attributes. When he wants to, he is also a superior dribbler; he has just become the most pragmatic player on Earth, so he rarely bothers as it isn't as effective. You did admit Ronaldo was better though, so I won't go further.
Robben is a better player than Suarez for me. Robben hardly ever goes missing in a match. Against top sides, Suarez goes missing far too much. The best CBs seem to have him in his pocket. He lacks the pace/acceleration of the other top-top players like Robben, Messi and Ronaldo, which makes him easier to mark.
Tevez and Rooney were always more aggressive than Suarez; don't confuse biting with aggressive footballing skills.
He is an incredible player, no doubt, but I also think that some overrate him slightly as if he is better than Henry or even Brazilian Ronaldo.
Ronaldo is certainly more clinical and is the absolute perfect athlete. I think Suarez shades him technically and is also superior in other ways such as set piece taking and work rate but certainly Ronaldo is the better player overall, no denying that. Different level of player.
I love Robben and after this World Cup he might actually shade it for me. Just an incredible player, his speed is just mindblowing. If he had a good weak-foot he'd be unbelievable.
I don't know, Suarez harries like hell. Tevez maybe; I do recall him being a bit of a bulldog but Suarez really does have a fear factor about him. He is incredibly dedicated to winning, hence his biting/idiotic incidences, when he can't control himself because he's a bit of a child.
He's certainly not better than either of those two.
Suarez.
It isn't even a debate coming off of last season and I'd be extremely surprised if van Persie has a better individual season from 2014/15 onwards, despitey high hopes for him if he remains injury-free.
It isn't even a debate coming off of last season and I'd be extremely surprised if van Persie has a better individual season from 2014/15 onwards, despitey high hopes for him if he remains injury-free.
How is Suarez's technique slightly better than Ronaldo's? Sincere question.
Yes but Robben is not better than RVP. He's faster and a better dribbler for sure. That's about it.
He doesn't score more goals or give more assists than RVP. You say but he's a winger, while RVP is a striker. Well, Ronaldo's a winger too, same direct egoistic style as Robben, and he does score more than RVP.
Besides, RVP was used mainly on the wing before 2010.
Career totals
Robben: 445 matches 153 goals
vPersie: 431 matches 202 goals
For Holland
Robben: 80 matches 26 goals
vPersie: 90 matches 45 goals
Like I said RVP has been injured during his career roughly as much as Robben.
I think Suarez of now is a better dribbler (Maybe not when Ronaldo emerged, but his game has changed drastically) and whilst being an inferior finisher has better shooting technique. He scores better goals than Ronaldo does, his set piece technique for example is far better.
Ronaldo seems to have become more machine-like but Suarez I feel is more capable of magic.
Ronaldo isn't a winger. He's basically whatever he wants to be on the pitch. Robben is always playing from the wing, he's always out wide and tearing apart fullbacks. How on earth can you compare the two? He's obviously not a pure goalscorer either like Ronaldo, that's not his playstyle.
You're comparing chalk and cheese, its not even worth getting in to a discussion about. Totally different players and to say "Well, Ronaldo's a winger..." is just ridiculous, does that mean every direct winger should push out the same goalscoring stats as strikers?
Career wise Van Persie overall I'd say is the better player but Robben has been in vastly superior form the last season and as it stands is arguably the 3rd best player in the world.
What happens when Bloombergs opinion and yours differs?
RVP carried united to a league title which is more than what Suarez did last season. What was the sum of suaraez influences last year? A second place finish.
He'll never vote for him again.
RVP's United side had been challenging for titles for years previous to that, Suarez took a Liverpool side that was in mid table mediocrity to second and very nearly first.
It was a harder achievement taking that Liverpool side to genuine title contenders than Van Persie winning the league with a United side that last year without him missed out on goal difference.
I don't say a "Greater" achievement as nothing beats winning the league but it was harder to accomplish in that it was a greater leap for Liverpool to make.
Ok fair enough. Ronaldo vs. Robben is as much chalk and cheese as Suarez vs. RVP imo, but the rest I can live with.
I thought the squad was excellent that season, you make it sound as if you thought Carrick, DDG, Rooney, and the rest were all average and RVP did a Bale/Suarez.
It was not such a great achievement. With United being out of the race, it's already miles easier, then you have City playing uninspired for much of the season, Chelsea winning United's most important game, yet fails to win theirs, Arsenal being themselves...
It was fine achievement for them, sure, but really not that great.
United's back, we won't see a repeat any time soon.
It was fine achievement for them, sure, but really not that great.
United's back, we won't see a repeat any time soon.
This is correct also, Carrick was incredible that season and some United fans even voted for him over RvP as the best player. Remember Rooney having a poor season though (forced out a bit due to Van Persie). Remember De Gea being excellent, as well as the likes of Rafael being brilliant too. Ferdinand was immense that year as well.
You don't think Liverpool going from SEVENTH to being a victory over Chelsea away from winning the league? (Wouldn't have given up lead over Palace in my view if they had the three points from that game) is a great achievement? Seriously? No Liverpool fan even dreamed of it.
Yes, United under performed. Arsenal were excellent for a large portion of the year though, City were poor at the start but incredibly consistent as usual late on and Chelsea challenged right till the last few games. It was an incredible surprise, most people predicted they'd be 5th-8th. They had a brilliant season, playing excellent football and winning games and Suarez was utterly sublime.
Also, your last statement made me chuckle. United's back on what evidence? You haven't played a single match yet. Have a much better manager now and have signed two good (but far from world-class) players. Being a bit premature/arrogant don't you think? I don't blame United fans for being excited and wanting revenge over gloating fans and I do believe they will have a good season but proclaiming that you are "back" on the basis of a couple of decent signings and a good manager is a bit much. Let's see how things unfold. I like United fans and you're one of the few clubs in the league that I don't detest at the top but your fans do have a reputation for arrogance and its statements like that which give it to you.