Who is better, RVP or Suarez?

If selfish Stevie Me let Suarez take hte penalties this season, then he would most likely be the highest scorer ever for a single domestic league season. His work rate and overall play makes him far better than RVP, but both are world class strikers.

Van Persie's work rate is poor and relies too heavily on service from those around him, while a lot of time Suarez creates goals out of nothing. Although you can argue that Van Persie won us the league title in 2013 and Suarez did fail to do that this season!
 
Mrs Smoker said:
Two goals in two games against two good sides. Heh, that's a great way to say he scored two against England. Rooney actually played better than him in that game I'd say.

Robin wasn't impressive either yeah, but had a masterful appearance against Spain. And just watch him ann...des...r...mur...show how it's done against Brazil.
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I hope you realise Suarez was barely fit enough to play and was clearly out of it by the end of the England game. He'd been rushed back from injury...yet still managed two crucial goals from the only two chances he received. Thats what a truly world-class striker does.

He played two games and managed two goals....RvP only scored against two teams and two of those came against a Spain team even more of a shambles than England. The other came against feckin Australia.

He had one good game the entire World Cup. One. (Yes, Suarez did also...but he played two games) He was so poor he was subbed off twice because he looked so meh up front. I would bet any money that had Suarez been fit and not got himself banned as well as playing as many games he would've scored more goals than RvP.

I hope he bloody does considering I have £20 on Holland to win.
 
Eriksen said:
They are compared to Australia.
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What has that got to do with anything? You called England a good side. They aren't.

Also, the results we had clearly didn't reflect our true abilities.
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:lol:

Yeah, right. Must be a coincidence.

We played well in all three games but were rather unlucky to only pick up a point. Didn't deserve to lose either against Uruguay or Italy and were by far the better side against CR but Sturridge's inability to finish cost us.
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At least you aren't full of excuses.

If we're going to say England aren't good then nor are Spain, considering they got smashed by an average side (on paper) in Holland and comfortably beat by a decent but far from world-class outfit in Chile. Then they beat Australia, one of the worst sides in the competition.
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Spain were in a much tougher group than England.

We're not "good" if you're comparing us to some of the best sides but we're better than some of the teams faced like Iran and not just an easy way to score goals.
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You aren't "good" full stop.
 
Mrs Smoker said:
It is factually correct, but rarely used. Just sounds weird.
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This whole thread sounds weird.

Only thing missing is someone saying Messi scored 28 in 31, while Yaya scored 20 in 35, but since it's more difficult scoring from midfield and goalscoring stats decide who's the best, Yaya must be the best player in the world at the moment.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
I wonder, if Suarez scored 25 goals last season instead of 31, would people still say he's the best player since Ronaldo? Some would, but 6 extra goals against some bottom half teams have made him the 3th best player in the world apparently.

Don't believe the hype man, overall RVP edges it for sure, Suarez is very close but still.
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Yeah, sure he does! You keep telling yourself that.


I don't know what on earth you're talking about, seriously. Every single striker in the world scores goals against bad teams. Ronaldo and Messi get most of their goals against cannon fodder and are still lauded for it. Do you think all Van Persie's goals in 12/13 came against the top four? He scored a hattrick against pissing Aston Villa on the game that won you the title.

If you're just going to ignore goals against poor sides then that is ridiculous. Those teams are still Premier League sides and scoring against them isn't as if they are facing league 1 sides. They are still important goals and Suarez performing well against these sides is a sign he doesn't take any opponent lightly, again the sign of a top player.

Lets take away all Robin's goals against the bottom half and only ever count goals against Real Madrid at the Bernabau as valid. Everything else is cannon fodder and must be ignored.
 
Eriksen said:
Ronaldo and Messi get most of their goals against cannon fodder and are still lauded for it.
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Actually, they do not.

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But then again, you could say, anything other than top 2 is cannon fodder in sunny SPL. :angel:
 
Lance Uppercut said:
What has that got to do with anything? You called England a good side. They aren't.



:lol:

Yeah, right. Must be a coincidence.



At least you aren't full of excuses.



Spain were in a much tougher group than England.



You aren't "good" full stop.
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Yes, we are. We are a team with top Premier League players with far more quality than most teams in the tournament. We don't perform to expectations but we're still a decent team. Excuses? Watch the bloody matches. You don't think luck comes in to tournaments? It does all the fecking time. We conceded 2 goals from 2 shots on target against Uruguay, hit the bar and bossed the matched. Against Italy the stats say we were on top for the majority of the game.

Spain weren't at all. Italy are a better national side than the Netherlands quality wise. They have far better players throughout the squad. Judging teams off a few games where so much luck comes in to it is stupid, the best team doesn't ALWAYS go through. They had a team in Australia that is worse by miles than any in our group. Costa Rica reached the quarters, we had Italy a top national side and Uruguay another good side who had Suarez scoring everything for them.

We would not have lost 5-1 to Netherlands anyway. Spain were a disaster this tournie...doesn't stop them being brilliant, sometimes teams flop at tournaments, sometimes they are good. Italy were utterly awful at the 2010 world cup then reached the final in 2012, it doesn't take much. France have reversed their fortunes in the space of a few years...

Whatever you say. By "good", I don't mean we're a top international side but we are clearly quality wise one of the better sides. Where are you from anyway?
 
Henrik Larsson said:
I wonder, if Suarez scored 25 goals last season instead of 31, would people still say he's the best player since Ronaldo? Some would, but 6 extra goals against some bottom half teams have made him the 3th best player in the world apparently.

Don't believe the hype man, overall RVP edges it for sure, Suarez is very close but still.
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Don't many people think Ronaldo's best season wasn't the one he scored most? Perhaps people just think Suarez showed some amazing football throughout the season, coupled with excellent productivity.

"Don't believe the hype"... :lol:
 
Eriksen said:
Yeah, sure he does! You keep telling yourself that.


I don't know what on earth you're talking about, seriously. Every single striker in the world scores goals against bad teams. Ronaldo and Messi get most of their goals against cannon fodder and are still lauded for it. Do you think all Van Persie's goals in 12/13 came against the top four? He scored a hattrick against pissing Aston Villa on the game that won you the title.

If you're just going to ignore goals against poor sides then that is ridiculous. Those teams are still Premier League sides and scoring against them isn't as if they are facing league 1 sides. They are still important goals and Suarez performing well against these sides is a sign he doesn't take any opponent lightly, again the sign of a top player.

Lets take away all Robin's goals against the bottom half and only ever count goals against Real Madrid at the Bernabau as valid. Everything else is cannon fodder and must be ignored.
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Chill, hes winding you up!
 
Eriksen said:
Yes, we are. We are a team with top Premier League players with far more quality than most teams in the tournament. We don't perform to expectations but we're still a decent team. Excuses? Watch the bloody matches. You don't think luck comes in to tournaments? It does all the fecking time. We conceded 2 goals from 2 shots on target against Uruguay, hit the bar and bossed the matched. Against Italy the stats say we were on top for the majority of the game.

Spain weren't at all. Italy are a better national side than the Netherlands quality wise. They have far better players throughout the squad. Judging teams off a few games where so much luck comes in to it is stupid, the best team doesn't ALWAYS go through. They had a team in Australia that is worse by miles than any in our group. Costa Rica reached the quarters, we had Italy a top national side and Uruguay another good side who had Suarez scoring everything for them.

We would not have lost 5-1 to Netherlands anyway. Spain were a disaster this tournie...doesn't stop them being brilliant, sometimes teams flop at tournaments, sometimes they are good. Italy were utterly awful at the 2010 world cup then reached the final in 2012, it doesn't take much. France have reversed their fortunes in the space of a few years...

Whatever you say. By "good", I don't mean we're a top international side but we are clearly quality wise one of the better sides. Where are you from anyway?
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Blah, blah, blah. I deal in facts. Bottom of the group. One point from a meaningless game. You are shite. Live with it.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Blah, blah, blah. I deal in facts. Bottom of the group. One point from a meaningless game. You are shite. Live with it.
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Why don't you answer my question? Where are you from that entitles you to call us shite?


So clueless its unbelievable. Results don't always show the full picture. We were extremely unlucky with a youthful side that at time got carried away. We didn't play poorly, try actually watching games.
 
Eriksen said:
Why don't you answer my question? Where are you from that entitles you to call us shite?
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:lol:

What on earth does my country of origin have to do with my opinion on England? They are a shitty team. Results indicate this. You DO know what results are, right?

So clueless its unbelievable. Results don't always show the full picture. We were extremely unlucky with a youthful side that at time got carried away. We didn't play poorly, try actually watching games.
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And again. More bullshit, excuses and irrelevant nonsense. You sure you aren't a scouser?
 
Lance Uppercut said:
:lol:

What on earth does my country of origin have to do with my opinion on England? They are a shitty team. Results indicate this. You DO know what results are, right?


And again. More bullshit, excuses and irrelevant nonsense. You sure you aren't a scouser?
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Yeah, whatever. Clearly out just to annoy so that's it from me, not even worth my time.
 
I accept your unconditional surrender and am pleased that you now concede that England are, in fact, shite.
 
Suarez is better at the moment but if Van Gaal gets RVP back to his best, there won't be too much in it.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
He's a vile creature of a man but Suarez is significantly better for me.
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I am surprised you said significantly. To me they are totally different types of strikers and suit different style of play.

Next season when Suarez is at Barca I expect him to score very few goals. I just don't see how he will fit into their style of play. But, maybe they will change their style to suit him. So I may be very wrong.

I believe RVP has achieved a lot more than Suarez to date. He is doesn't have the dribbling skills of Suarez, but as an out and out goal scorer I would put RVP some way ahead of Suarez.

Be interesting to see their stats in terms of number of matches they score, rather than goals per match. My sense is RVP scores in more matches, whereas Suarez will get more hatricks or more per games against the fodder.
 
Suarez has what it takes to be the best player in the world. RVP has what it takes to be the best striker in the world. Simply put, Suarez in my opinion will affect the outcome of more games as he by far the better all round player.
 
I love these abstracts. "What it takes", but what is that? "Will to win" is another, how exactly do you quantify that? Why would Suarez have it more than...Cleverley?
 
Mrs Smoker said:
I love these abstracts. "What it takes", but what is that? "Will to win" is another, how exactly do you quantify that? Why would Suarez have it more than...Cleverley?
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Because potential can be crudely measured by the displays evidenced on the pitch thus far in a players career. So not entirely abstract, which in relation to Cleverley would be more accurately described as pure fantasy.
 
Suarez was just massive for Liverpool and Uruguay. Nearly a demi-god. I don't know how he will do with a team where he'll work for another man.
But yeah, Suarez is younger and already reached a level RVP won't reach.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Bit of a surprise a lot of people saying Suarez is the better player, feels really weird.

Aside from raw pace in his acceleration, I don't really see any aspect of footballing skills Suarez is better at than RVP. RVP is 3.5 years older, and Suarez has a lot of catching up to do in the big game/big occasion goalscoring department before you could even consider to call him a better player


I saw RVP make his debut for Feyenoord, ripping up and winning the Uefa Cup when he was 18 years old, always followed him after that.

Same story for Suarez, seen him play since he arrived fresh from South America at FC Groningen, later went to Ajax obviously.

Long story short: RVP as a striker/CF on his best days is a bit better than Suarez as a striker/CF on his best days. Not much though. Suarez did tear the Eredevisie apart, scoring 30+ goals while playing at the right wing, so you could say he's more versatile. But then you look back in time and see RVP did pretty well when he was not playing as a CF for Arsenal in his first years there.
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People have an odd way of rating player. The majority aren't that good at separating ability and form.

If we are talking ability there isn't that much in it. I would prefer RVP. Form wise it is clearly Suarez.
 
Eriksen said:
Suarez scored two goals in two games at the World Cup against two good sides, Van Persie scored a single more goal in many more games, one of which came against Australia and two against a Spain team that performed absolutely atrociously.

You can't call it "Poor form" because he got banned. He's just an idiot.
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He scored two goals against the team who finished bottom of the group and got so frustrated in the other game that he ended up biting another player.
 
Fully Fledged said:
He scored two goals against the team who finished bottom of the group and got so frustrated in the other game that he ended up biting another player.
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He played two whole games. We might have finished bottom but you can't say teams walked all over us - alright, we're not a good team whatever you want to say but no side had an easy match. We took Italy all the way and were a few minutes from a draw vs. Uruguay and could easily have won as well as drawing with the group winners.

Italy are incredibly organized against good teams and have an excellent defense, they could frustrate any top player. He bit someone because he's a fecking mentalist.
 
Eriksen said:
He played two whole games. We might have finished bottom but you can't say teams walked all over us - alright, we're not a good team whatever you want to say but no side had an easy match. We took Italy all the way and were a few minutes from a draw vs. Uruguay and could easily have won as well as drawing with the group winners.

Italy are incredibly organized against good teams and have an excellent defense, they could frustrate any top player. He bit someone because he's a fecking mentalist.
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Defensively we were shocking at this World Cup. Our defense down the left wing was none existent, our centre back pair a joke. And yes we flattered to deceive up front but our strikers were woeful and extremely wasteful with chances.

CR didn't have to play against us. If they got a point they topped the group and we never gave them reason to believe that point was in any danger.

Spain started the game against Holland really well they played better that first half than we played at anytime during the whole tournament. The goal on the stroke of half time knocked some of the belief out of them and they never got it back. The Fact of the matter is that they were European champions two years ago.

You cannot say with any conviction that we are a better side than Spain. Current World Cup Champions, until latter today, European Champions and the League of the current Champions League Champions. We pale into insignificance next to them.
 
Fully Fledged said:
Defensively we were shocking at this World Cup. Our defense down the left wing was none existent, our centre back pair a joke. And yes we flattered to deceive up front but our strikers were woeful and extremely wasteful with chances.

CR didn't have to play against us. If they got a point they topped the group and we never gave them reason to believe that point was in any danger.

Spain started the game against Holland really well they played better that first half than we played at anytime during the whole tournament. The goal on the stroke of half time knocked some of the belief out of them and they never got it back. The Fact of the matter is that they were European champions two years ago.

You cannot say with any conviction that we are a better side than Spain. Current World Cup Champions, until latter today, European Champions and the League of the current Champions League Champions. We pale into insignificance next to them.
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Defensively we were poor, yes. We still conceded only two shots on target against Uruguay. He scored them both. He was starved of chances in that match, don't act as if we were split open upon every attack.


Didn't threaten to? We could've scored 3 goals or more if it wasn't for woeful finishing, we often threatened. A horrible game from Sturridge cost us 3 points.


Anyway..I don't want to make this an England discussion because it's the RvP vs. Suarez thread but you really can't say he had a bad world cup when he played two matches and was immense in the first and yes poor in the second vs. a very organized team that needed a point.
 
Suarez is a better player, but RVP on his day is just one of the most lethal strikers to play the game for a while. For example I think RVP would do much. much better in the Barcelona side than Suarez will.
 
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