Given how far up the wingbacks play, could Garnacho play LWB?
Which of our player's fit Amorim's style/tactics particularly well or poorly?
- Thread starter bb8
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Strange take on Ugarte being exposed given he’d have 3 CBs behind him and wingbacks either side. More so when he’s already played for Amorim
Yoro - De Ligt - Martinez
Mazraoui - Ugarte - Mainoo - Shaw
Bruno - Rashford
Hojlund
The big question…assuming he sticks to his favoured 3,4,3 for me is…Can any ‘wingers’ convert and succeed in a more central role?
Secondly, would he use wingers in the wingback role? And would our wingers adapt well to said new role. Hopefully we’d spend most of the time in the attacking third anyway… but can they be convinced by the tactical change and willing to put the hard yards in.
Very interested to see what happens. I’ll be studying sporting tonight. Looking forward to it
Interesting options around the squad as well. Curious to see how Zirkzee and Mount might be used and if we’d see a sudden improvement in a new system.
Yoro - De Ligt - Martinez
Mazraoui - Ugarte - Mainoo - Shaw
Bruno - Rashford
Hojlund
The big question…assuming he sticks to his favoured 3,4,3 for me is…Can any ‘wingers’ convert and succeed in a more central role?
Secondly, would he use wingers in the wingback role? And would our wingers adapt well to said new role. Hopefully we’d spend most of the time in the attacking third anyway… but can they be convinced by the tactical change and willing to put the hard yards in.
Very interested to see what happens. I’ll be studying sporting tonight. Looking forward to it
Interesting options around the squad as well. Curious to see how Zirkzee and Mount might be used and if we’d see a sudden improvement in a new system.
He is probably our worst player in defensive phase (including Rashford). So i think not.
Is he Pep-esque in a way he always gets the team to play the same way independent where he goes? I don't think we have enough evidence for it, so he'll most likely have to figure out something different for United.
There's no chance Rashford/Garnacho don't play an important role under him. I think Mainoo will be key, and actually used in a way to get the best out of him.
There's no chance Rashford/Garnacho don't play an important role under him. I think Mainoo will be key, and actually used in a way to get the best out of him.
I’ll agree to disagree with all of that sentence
I think amad is a better choice than Rashford.
Why is there no chance Rashford/Garnacho don't play an important role?
Yoro-De Ligt-Martinez is surely going to be your back 3. Ugarte and Mainoo the central two. Beyond that going to need 3-4 new signings to make the rest work.
Think what many are overlooking is the wingback role is the most physically demanding in a back 3 system - that's United's thinnest position right now by a mile. If Amorim comes in you need serious reinforcements in January (one slightly-used Ben Chilwell is available).
What other teams in the PL or Europe play 3 at the back? It doesn't seem to be very widely used. I know we probably shouldn't judge a formation's merits by how many other teams use it, but is anyone else worried that if 3 at the back is so good, who don't more teams use it?!
How funny would it be if Antony really thrives under Amorim and become a beast of a player.
How is Hojlund a bad fit? He is a willing runner into the channels and his hold up play is getting better with every game.
Yeah and how funny would it be if I can squirt milk from my nipples.
Sorry I thought we were both talking of things that will never happen!
Don’t really agree with that list at all.
I would rule it out completely. If he wants hard working system players, he might fancy him more than the joggers.
My guess is that the back three, when all fit, picks itself with. Yoro, De Ligt and Martínez. The midfield two is likely to be Ugarte and Mainoo, which makes sense and is our best pairing. But I think it gets tricky up front.
The two AMs potentially have Bruno, Amad, Mount, Rashford, and Garnacho competing for two places. With Hojlund up front. I can see an argument for one of those to be converted to a wing back, but not sure who. Maybe Bruno will play that right flank, as he has the engine for it.
That said, I think it’s likely that Bruno will play as one of the two AMs, which suits him down to the ground, and my money on the second AM would be Amad, because of how well he takes care of the ball. I can see Mount covering positions at AM and CM.
Rashford and Garnacho I think compete for places at AM and CF, but I doubt we’ll see both start. Zirkzee feels like the odd man out to me, but it’s early days for him.
I haven’t seen enough of his teams to judge whether he looks for direct players at AM or players who are more technical and take care of the ball. In some crazy world somewhere, Antony emerges as a quality LWB and Bruno as a RWB, with Ugarte and Mainoo in the middle, Mount and Amad in front of them, and Hojlund up front. I think it comes down to what he expects from his wingbacks. Are they pure wing backs or more wide midfielders? Playing Mazroui and Dalot there feels too defensive and not offering enough threat going forwards.
This will be a fun and interesting experiment.
I definitely think his system is tailor made for Martinez at LCB, and Ugarte at CM. Those feel like the only two certainties to me.
The two AMs potentially have Bruno, Amad, Mount, Rashford, and Garnacho competing for two places. With Hojlund up front. I can see an argument for one of those to be converted to a wing back, but not sure who. Maybe Bruno will play that right flank, as he has the engine for it.
That said, I think it’s likely that Bruno will play as one of the two AMs, which suits him down to the ground, and my money on the second AM would be Amad, because of how well he takes care of the ball. I can see Mount covering positions at AM and CM.
Rashford and Garnacho I think compete for places at AM and CF, but I doubt we’ll see both start. Zirkzee feels like the odd man out to me, but it’s early days for him.
I haven’t seen enough of his teams to judge whether he looks for direct players at AM or players who are more technical and take care of the ball. In some crazy world somewhere, Antony emerges as a quality LWB and Bruno as a RWB, with Ugarte and Mainoo in the middle, Mount and Amad in front of them, and Hojlund up front. I think it comes down to what he expects from his wingbacks. Are they pure wing backs or more wide midfielders? Playing Mazroui and Dalot there feels too defensive and not offering enough threat going forwards.
This will be a fun and interesting experiment.
I definitely think his system is tailor made for Martinez at LCB, and Ugarte at CM. Those feel like the only two certainties to me.
I think the lazy ones wont survive
Never say never!
Just because we dumped Sancho on you (and Chelsea fans and manager are now realizing how one dimensional and rubbish he is), don’t dump your unwanted players on us
Lindelof would be a terrible choice at RCB. He is useless defending wide and open areas already in a traditional back four where he vacates the channels and lets AWB/Dalot do all the work. He constantly back peddles into his own penalty box because he is fearful of committing and engaging an attacker. Imagine all the likely scenarios where he will have to step up towards the half way line in the half spaces or in that right channel. It would be ponderous and passive stuff. He's not shown it in his whole 7 years here, what makes you think he will suddenly show it now.
His potential on the ball and carrying it into midfield is mostly hypothetical as he just doesn't have the personality to do it on his own terms. A back of three with him is basically asking us to play ultra defensive because he will be found lacking to push into spaces defensively and offensively. He's the worst pick at RCB compared to Yoro, de Ligt and/or Dalot. His best position is a 3rd choice back up and considering his contract situation and what we already know of his 'talent' (aka not good enough at all), he will certainly leave.
I'm surprised so many people feel like De Ligt would suit a 343 when it's well documented that he struggles in 3 man defences. He doesn't play regularly for Holland cause he's nowhere near as comfortable as the other CB's in that formation.
No, I am serious. But more importantly, do you dream about squirting milk with your nipples, dude?
So what's the plan? Will he adapt his formation to what's available?
He would be a nightmare at CB with his constant brain farts when defending.
Based on my infinitesimal knowledge of Amorim’s setup, I reckon his favoured lineup (yes, I know he’ll only field it twice because of Shaw) will look something like this:
Onana
Yoro MdL Martinez
Dalot Ugarte Mainoo Shaw
Bruno
Højlund Rashford
He plays a 3-4-2-1 at Sporting, so I reckon that while we’ll have a 3-4-1-2 shape on paper due to Bruno, it’ll be a fluid system where Bruno drifts right and whoever starts out of Rashford or Garnacho shifts left over and over again during games.
New manager, new setup, new era. Exciting times.
Onana
Yoro MdL Martinez
Dalot Ugarte Mainoo Shaw
Bruno
Højlund Rashford
He plays a 3-4-2-1 at Sporting, so I reckon that while we’ll have a 3-4-1-2 shape on paper due to Bruno, it’ll be a fluid system where Bruno drifts right and whoever starts out of Rashford or Garnacho shifts left over and over again during games.
New manager, new setup, new era. Exciting times.
I think our ex-United, current Benfica left back would be perfect for the wingback role. He is superb technically, delivers a mean cross, tucks in well to play with other midfielders. His lack of pace will be compensated by the 3 at the back.
Formations are part of the overall style of play, what is most important is that he deploys his principles of flexible attacking approaches and a strong defensive foundation, all that can be achieved with different formation, his job will be to make use of the existing personnel and play to their strengths, be it a 4231, 343, 352 or any other formation.
With the above being said, some players in the squad might be excellent fits, Onana as a ball playing GK, Martinez with his excellent ball distribution, Cas with his defensive nous, Dalot & Maz are very versatile FBs, Ugarte worked under him, and there is also in the squad decent to good young CBs in De Ligt & Yoro, and a collection of forward players that need coaching to be fair.
With the above being said, some players in the squad might be excellent fits, Onana as a ball playing GK, Martinez with his excellent ball distribution, Cas with his defensive nous, Dalot & Maz are very versatile FBs, Ugarte worked under him, and there is also in the squad decent to good young CBs in De Ligt & Yoro, and a collection of forward players that need coaching to be fair.
The central CB doesn't need to be the quickest. Both slabhead and de Ligt could be playing there. Same goes for Evans.
Martinez's height or lack thereof could be an issue playing as the left sided CB
Yoro when fit should slot into the right sided CB position.
The problem is with the wide midfielders. Weve got to use wingbacks and Dalot on RB is probably the only one who's good. Shaw is more of a LCB now and he'll be backup there (when fit). Forgot mazroui. He'll probably fit in well with this system
The central midfielders should be ugarte and Mainoo as we need people with a fair bit of pace there. Eriksen and Casemiro don't have neither the stamina nor the pace anymore. If we don't have pace in our midfield , our defense is likely over run.
Bruno and Mount both do a job as the #10s.
And Hojlund on the attack as the CF.
Just don't see a place for Antony (unless he's converted into the RWB role) , Garnacho , Rashford
We've got too many wide attacking wingers (who like to come in) and the new setup doesn't depend on that at all.
Martinez's height or lack thereof could be an issue playing as the left sided CB
Yoro when fit should slot into the right sided CB position.
The problem is with the wide midfielders. Weve got to use wingbacks and Dalot on RB is probably the only one who's good. Shaw is more of a LCB now and he'll be backup there (when fit). Forgot mazroui. He'll probably fit in well with this system
The central midfielders should be ugarte and Mainoo as we need people with a fair bit of pace there. Eriksen and Casemiro don't have neither the stamina nor the pace anymore. If we don't have pace in our midfield , our defense is likely over run.
Bruno and Mount both do a job as the #10s.
And Hojlund on the attack as the CF.
Just don't see a place for Antony (unless he's converted into the RWB role) , Garnacho , Rashford
We've got too many wide attacking wingers (who like to come in) and the new setup doesn't depend on that at all.
Why would Højlund be a bad fit? He has been best when playing in a system without wingers.
Strugglers
- Zirkzee may struggle because as far as I know Amorim wants a channel running goal scoring striker, not an interlinking player.
- Mazroui as I'm unsure if he can play as quick as a wingback
- Same with Malacia who seemed a very defensive fullback
- Mount may struggle because I don't think he is that creative for a CAM & as far as I know Amorim's tactics tend to be breaking down the press than necessarily pressing so much themselves - still if that's untrue I don't think Mount can play enough line cutting balls to someone like Hojlund
- Rashford & Garnacho wingers may struggle playing centrally alongside Hojlund but may benefit in being more direct and closer to the goal themselves.
- Shaw may either struggle or benefit playing wingback but it's a gamble that is most likely looking like a loss due to his medical history.
Hojlund should be able to play Gyokeres way
Amad has been called these pseudo RM/AM player & that tactically is something Amorim tends to use
Bruno Fernandes I think will be used both higher up the pitch as a CAM/winger aswell as deeper down in a double pivot to dictate our play by playing more conservatory than necessarily quick. I can see Mainoo & Bruno for example rotating positions aswell as playing together alongside Ugarte. He is a very energetic player that is creative and is defensively underrated.
Antony might be better because again if he doesn't have to beat his defender from so far out wide, playing more centrally will lead him to more instinctive shots on goals through the centre. I've also heard that he is a passers benefited by a possesion based system.
Onana seems like a goalkeeper amorim can use alongside all of our CB's that should benefit playing if we play 3 at the back. I have a slight feeling Maguire covered by De Ligt & Martinez may be great but Yoro is a talent and needs time.
Mainoo should provide enough defensive cover alongside Ugarte & 3 CB's so I think the need for Casemiro is probably gone.
Dalot should be able to play wingback well.
If Amass is good as people Say he is then I can see him break through the next couple of months under amorim.
Amass seems like the biggest beneficiary
Id honestly take Maguire over De Ligt or Martinez as the centre of a back 3.
De ligt was an odd signing, you would think someone in our new structure would have had the foresight to think we might need to replace the manager and the new person might want to play a high lone requiring someone with more pace but seemingly not
I generally worry that a back 3 might exacerbate our issues scoring goals and controlling games
It has really fascinated me to see practically every lineup run through back 3's that are some combination of Martinez, De Ligt, Maguire and Yoro with no mention of Evans.
In order to play a back 3 well you need an organiser back there who has superior reading of the play and the ability to instruct others effortlessly whilst remaining optimally positioned and dynamic themselves. We have only one CB here who fits that description and it is none of the above in the first paragraph. They are players to be led by others to execute their roles in peace, not thinking defenders with sharp wit and greater levels of pre cognition. Yoro is far too young for the central role, so he's on the right, regardless.
But yeah, this back 3 where the blind lead the blind doesn't look good. We need a shepherd in there and there's only one of those at the club right now.
In order to play a back 3 well you need an organiser back there who has superior reading of the play and the ability to instruct others effortlessly whilst remaining optimally positioned and dynamic themselves. We have only one CB here who fits that description and it is none of the above in the first paragraph. They are players to be led by others to execute their roles in peace, not thinking defenders with sharp wit and greater levels of pre cognition. Yoro is far too young for the central role, so he's on the right, regardless.
But yeah, this back 3 where the blind lead the blind doesn't look good. We need a shepherd in there and there's only one of those at the club right now.
I see alot of defensive team selections on here. I was under the impression that he deploys wingers as wing backs.
I think we could look like this:
Onana
Yoro De Ligt Licha
Dalot Ugarte Mainoo Garnacho
Amad Bruno
Hojlund
I think we could look like this:
Onana
Yoro De Ligt Licha
Dalot Ugarte Mainoo Garnacho
Amad Bruno
Hojlund
I'm still very glad to have Sancho!Just because we dumped Sancho on you (and Chelsea fans and manager are now realizing how one dimensional and rubbish he is), don’t dump your unwanted players on us
And Sancho notwithstanding, Chilwell remains an excellent option at wing-back - especially if you can manage to stagger his time on the treatment table with Shaw somehow.
As @AngeloHenriquez states. No guarantee he’d play the same system/formation. But I’d imagine the principles will be the same. In which case I have to ask what the feck Ineos were doing allowing Ten Haag to spunk our budget this summer on the likes of De Ligt (too immobile) and Zirkzee (lacks guile and many other things tbf)
Amass - only proper fit left back currently in the squad. And with a huge emphasis on an attacking wing back, reckon he may play.
Amad and Antony - if he decides to convert a left footed wide player into a wing back.
Mazroaui - I’ve liked him this season but he probably isn’t suited to the wing back role in an Amorim team.
I think the biggest issue is the high line with our slow meandering centre backs. I don’t think a 343 type system is too much of an issue but I’d say the profile of player we have is more suited to an Antonio Conte back three system than an Amorim one.
Amass - only proper fit left back currently in the squad. And with a huge emphasis on an attacking wing back, reckon he may play.
Amad and Antony - if he decides to convert a left footed wide player into a wing back.
Mazroaui - I’ve liked him this season but he probably isn’t suited to the wing back role in an Amorim team.
I think the biggest issue is the high line with our slow meandering centre backs. I don’t think a 343 type system is too much of an issue but I’d say the profile of player we have is more suited to an Antonio Conte back three system than an Amorim one.
Surely everybody knows the wingback position is the most physically demanding position. Don't think a single person would overlook that it's so obvious.
It's why we all doubt the players currently at the club have the ability to do the role outside of maybe Dalot and Mazaraoui.