You have all managed to ruin my muppet erection, but a dose of reality is perhaps warranted.
Would be more than happy with 2 cm. Thiago and strootman or equivalents would suit me fine. Cm with an engine and one with class/flair.
Which midfielder will we sign this summer?
- Thread starter pocco
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You have all managed to ruin my muppet erection, but a dose of reality is perhaps warranted.
Would be more than happy with 2 cm. Thiago and strootman or equivalents would suit me fine. Cm with an engine and one with class/flair.
Where the feck is Ronaldo in your list?! He's definitely coming back this summer. Believe.
Yes. He is a bonafide first teamer for them and they rate him highly.
Gundogan seems like a really good option. Would complement carrick and wouldnt cost a ridiculous amount of money.
If you call 35+Mil € not ridiculous.....
Why would Dortmund sell?
They certainly don't need the money with the new German TV deal
I think our midfield options are going to consist of
1) cast offs from the bigger sides - if Barca bought a midfielder or CB you might get someone like Song or Mascherano
2) players from teams outside the Champions league spots in the 'big leagues'
3) French sides excluding PSG - the new tax laws are bound to have a huge impact
4) Portugese/Brazilian signings - Especially given Mendes role in our signings
There's plenty out there - I just hope our scouts have been very busy
It is very difficult to spot realistic CM targets who would improve us. Sure you can buy someone with potential but thats not what we need. Those players who would improve us immediately are unlikely to get
You think he'd cost that much? i was thinking along the lines of 25-30 mil...
Anyway, point was, i think he would slot in well and really sort out our midfield.
Besides, if we were seriously bidding around 32 million for a winger last summer, it wouldn't be too off to suggest paying somewhere in the same region for a midfielder that we are desperately in need for.
Maybe just wishful thinking on my part however, knowing fergie his transfer policy regarding midfielders.
4-3-3 uses wingers? How do you work that out? Does it use wingers if you play 3 strikers? Would messi, RVP and Suarez up front be using wingers or strikers, or maybe simply using strikers who can play out wide or come inside?
Playing Valencia RVP and Giggs for instance is an alternate example of a 4-3-3 with 2 wingers or midfielders playing either side of one striker. These 2 players will stay wide and rarely make runs inside or ahead of the striker. Making it effectively a 4-5-1 instead of a 4-3-3. there is no other difference between a 4-5-1 and a 4-3-3. One uses non strikers in the wide positions, the other uses strikers out wide.
So the personnel and the job they are going to fulfill most regularly is what defines a system.
Iirc you suggested to Plato the other week that we play 4-2-3-1. I strongly disagree, while suggesting 4-2-3-1 should be our system of choice in my view. 4-2-3-1 is not played with wingers, it is played with players like Hazard Kagawa and Robben, in front of 2 defensive minded mids and behind a striker. The wide players come inside more than go outside, which overloads the central area. Do we really play a system where we see that?
I suggest because we don't play like that is why we struggle with our passing game. Our players are much farther apart than they would be in a 4-2-3-1. Madrid play 4-2-3-1, but we certainly don't. We play one DM and then use an AM as a CM next to him. Our wide players are not narrow and they rarely come inside. So what we use most often is a 4-4-2 when we defend and a 4-2-4 when we attack, which is why we are so open to counters in midfield.
Players define systems by the jobs they provide in any given role. Surely you must appreciate how the same system but with different types of players in the wide areas will predominantly give you different things, which redefines any system accordingly.
‘Kinell apotheosis. I think you’re confused and taking the term wingers a bit literally to mean an old fashioned chalk on their boots winger, when I was just talking about their nominal position on the pitch, which would be on the left or right wing. Hence 4-3-3 uses wingers because it uses players on the wings. Being played on the wing doesn’t mean you hug the touchline anymore, which is why people refer to ‘modern’ or ‘traditional’ wingers. I mean when we play Kagawa or Rooney on the wing they both cut inside. Really weird argument seeing as you know all that. All I am saying is that if Fergie uses a 4-3-3 then he’ll need to play two of the forwards on the wing, no matter if they are normally strikers, classic wingers, modern wingers… whatever.
With your question would Messi and Suarez be used as strikers or wingers if they flanked Van Perise, then without question wingers. That doesn’t mean they won’t cut inside the way Silva, Iniesta, Rooney, Muller etc do. But their general position on the pitch would be the left/right wing and they absolutely wouldn’t be played as strikers. Do you know many teams that play three strikers nowadays?
As I said in another thread.. Most teams use wingers, bar the odd three at the back formation that you see in Italy the vast majority of teams play with wide men. The main difference is they use these false wingers that the Caf love so much, that in theory aren't as 'one dimensional' as ours. Whatever approach teams take to personnel, you cannot just cede whole areas of a football pitch and have a big cluster feck in the middle. Even Barca who have a collection of the most talented central players need to position some of the wide. Over the past few seasons Villa, Iniesta and Fabregas get played out of position despite it not getting the best out of them individually.
So when people say we should 'play without wingers' its only going to result in playing less typical wingers in a wide role, you will generally always need someone going out there. Which is exactly what you are talking about now with your Suarez and Messi example – they will still need to go wide as you can’t just play on a tiny segment of a football pitch. It's just mental. In terms of United you make out we’ll be really successful if we play attacking midfielders on the wing, when it hasn't got the best out of Rooney, Kagawa or Welbeck. You really overrate that way of playing.
If you want to reply to something I said to Plato then bump the thread. However saying 4-2-3-1 doesn’t use wingers is just ridiculous. Benitez’s Valencia is one of the classic examples and they had Vicente Rodríguez on the left. We use it now as Kagwa and Rooney aren't strikers, yet we use Valencia and Young.
‘There is no other difference between a 4-5-1 and a 4-3-3. One uses non strikers in the wide positions, the other uses strikers out wide.’ You have just pulled this out your arse, it’s complete shite. Mourinho’s Chelsea played 4-3-3 and they had Robben and Duff on the wings. Were they strikers?
Moutinho would be a realistic signing, at a decent price, and would instantly improve us. As would either bender, and especially gundogan but he wouldn't be a realistic price I think. There are plenty of midfielders out there who would improve us, and plenty have moved clubs as well over the last few years for good prices at the same time as sir Alex has been saying there was no value in the market.
I think Gundogan would be realistic for most other teams of our calibre but Dortmund selling us another player the season after we bought Kagawa seems unrealistic to me.
That is actually the minimum I can think of. He is Dortmund´s second most important player after Götze and the club will make a hefty profit for the second season in a row at the end of the season. I don´t even know, if there is a realistic offer, which would make the officials consider a transfer. He could literally become the difference between CL and EL for the club and this would be worth a huge load of money even for one year.
Then, there is Gündogan´s side to this story. He is really content at his current club and knows exactly about the huge part that Klopp had in his development as a player. He also has not hit his ceiling yet. With the world cup coming up in the next year and Dortmund being one of the two big providers of the national team, I don´t see him leaving before that point and risking his position in the team with a move to a new league and system.
Right now, there are no signs of him leaving this summer. According to all involved parties, the chances of renewing his current contract (until 2015) are way higher.
I'm not sure if the Kagawa thing really matters. Besides, they said that we were 'perfect gentlemen' or something like that when negotiating for Kagawa.
Yeah, we'd probably have to make a mouthwatering offer to persuade Dortmund to part with Gundogen. And we don't do mouthwatering.
I'd have to disagree here, Sphaero. I think Hummels is Dortmund's most important player - even before Mario Götze.
Spot on with your part on Gündogan - the sky's the limit for him, it seems. Turned into such a classy player under Klopp and has been a consistent figure for Dortmund over the last two years, one of the few that has replicated last season's superb form.
Spot on with your part on Gündogan - the sky's the limit for him, it seems. Turned into such a classy player under Klopp and has been a consistent figure for Dortmund over the last two years, one of the few that has replicated last season's superb form.
He would have been my number three, at least based on this season
.Truthfully, Götze, Gündogan and Hummels are extremely hard to rank in terms of importance. One thing is clear: Those three are the essential spine of our play. Hummels as head of the defense and first part of the build up chain, Gündogan as balancer between defense and offense and Götze as the offensive engine and creator.
Given that a Hummels in top form gives the back four so much more stability and is basically not replacable, I would not argue against anyone who calls him the most important player.
I don´t see much of an alternative to Götze, though, who is also our most consistent player. Bittencourt shows promise and could grow into a role of his eventual successor.
Gündogan is probably the most replacable of the three, because of the return of Sahin.
We're being strongly linked with Bale, Ronaldo, Falcao, Moutinho, Gotze and Strootman. I fear there'll be mass suicides on the café this summer when all we get is Zaha, Bebe (loan return) and Fletcher's recuperation ('like a new signing').
Gotze and Reus will not be leaving dortmund this summer.We may sign Lewandowski...Hummels will probably end up at Madrid
I think if Fergie signs a midfielder then it will only be a player that scores a few goals as we don't score enough from midfield. Strootman and Wanyama score the odd goal, I think Fergie is looking forward to Powell coming through 1 year from now after a years loan hopefully with wigan as he knows how to score
So Viktor Fischer plays on the left at Ajax and would be my dream muppet signing as he will class...but they wont sell as he has a contract till 2017
So my realistic muppet summer signings would be Bale or Fischer, Strootman, and a left back
But I have a feeling we may sign Lewandowski as van persie can maybe play more to the left,.. possibly strootman but seem as jones can play that role than maybe not... and a left back and maybe a central defender if vidic is sold and rooney could be flogged to psg if they bid high enough...so that would still be a good summer of signings but nothing like what most fans are expecting
I think if Fergie signs a midfielder then it will only be a player that scores a few goals as we don't score enough from midfield. Strootman and Wanyama score the odd goal, I think Fergie is looking forward to Powell coming through 1 year from now after a years loan hopefully with wigan as he knows how to score
So Viktor Fischer plays on the left at Ajax and would be my dream muppet signing as he will class...but they wont sell as he has a contract till 2017
So my realistic muppet summer signings would be Bale or Fischer, Strootman, and a left back
But I have a feeling we may sign Lewandowski as van persie can maybe play more to the left,.. possibly strootman but seem as jones can play that role than maybe not... and a left back and maybe a central defender if vidic is sold and rooney could be flogged to psg if they bid high enough...so that would still be a good summer of signings but nothing like what most fans are expecting
Hummels more likely for Barcelona than Madrid, hugely so.
Not neccessarily if mourinho stays and dumps ramos in the summer....barca apparently want kompany too, city won't sell but the player could try to force the move..still unlikely
I reckon Ajax would sell for the right price. Fischer seems like the type of player we'd invest in, if he's as good as he looks.
Could he be the answer:
Sir Alex Ferguson is keen on strengthening his midfield before next season and Wigan star James McCarthy has emerged as a primary target for the Red Devils manager.
The defensive midfielder has started in each of Wigan’s 31 Premier League games this season, making him a tailor-made option for United. Roberto Martinez had landed the Republic of Ireland enforcer for a mere £1.2 million in 2009 but could command a £10 million fee this summer. McCarthy’s contract at the DW Stadium runs till 2015 but he could be tempted to ditch the Latics, who have been mired in a relegation dogfight every season, and move to a top club with Arsenal also having monitored him closely.
Ferguson would face a shortage of midfield options next season, with Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs nearing the end of their glorious careers at Old Trafford. Reports on goal.com believe that a move to Manchester could materialize for McCarthy this summer although Martinez would fight hard to hold him back if the Latics stay in the top flight for another season.
United could attempt to appease Martinez this summer by offering young playmaker Nick Powell on loan, as they look to give the teenager some top flight experience before thrusting him into their first team. Arsene Wenger has moved on to other targets but could also revive his pursuit of McCarthy if Wigan get relegated this summer.
Sir Alex Ferguson is keen on strengthening his midfield before next season and Wigan star James McCarthy has emerged as a primary target for the Red Devils manager.
The defensive midfielder has started in each of Wigan’s 31 Premier League games this season, making him a tailor-made option for United. Roberto Martinez had landed the Republic of Ireland enforcer for a mere £1.2 million in 2009 but could command a £10 million fee this summer. McCarthy’s contract at the DW Stadium runs till 2015 but he could be tempted to ditch the Latics, who have been mired in a relegation dogfight every season, and move to a top club with Arsenal also having monitored him closely.
Ferguson would face a shortage of midfield options next season, with Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs nearing the end of their glorious careers at Old Trafford. Reports on goal.com believe that a move to Manchester could materialize for McCarthy this summer although Martinez would fight hard to hold him back if the Latics stay in the top flight for another season.
United could attempt to appease Martinez this summer by offering young playmaker Nick Powell on loan, as they look to give the teenager some top flight experience before thrusting him into their first team. Arsene Wenger has moved on to other targets but could also revive his pursuit of McCarthy if Wigan get relegated this summer.
So we're replacing the likes of Scholes with the likes of Mccarthy? Sweet. I wonder why we didnt signed Zamora instead of RVP.
McCarthy is a very good midfielder to be fair. Always impresses.
I've been taking the piss out of people saying this for a few pages, but would he improve us? He'd Probably be available..
Definitely not good enough for United. He wouldn't improve us in any way. We need someone strong enough to tackle hard and take over the game. Cleverley himself is still not doing that for us and how do you reckon McCarthy gonna do that?
Because McCarthy is a better tackler than Cleverley.
Plus, there are a lot of similarities between the two really. They play almost identically in terms of style - even when they pass, they seem to go through the same motions. I'm not saying McCarthy is better than Cleverley, but I wouldn't rush to say that he isn't good enough for United.
Plus, there are a lot of similarities between the two really. They play almost identically in terms of style - even when they pass, they seem to go through the same motions. I'm not saying McCarthy is better than Cleverley, but I wouldn't rush to say that he isn't good enough for United.
Definitely a load of rubbish. Especially considering he's still only 22 and has a lot of developing to do. However, even as he is now, he's quite a good midfielder and IMO would be a solid addition. I reckon we need to bring in two more CM's anyway, so who's to say that he'd be the only arrival.
mc carthy could be a good addition but as long as he isn't the only arrival
Its difficult to see Anderson/Scholes or Fletcher having a future at United next season
we need an experienced, classy addition as well as a young prospect like McCarthy
Its difficult to see Anderson/Scholes or Fletcher having a future at United next season
we need an experienced, classy addition as well as a young prospect like McCarthy
I think Eriksen alongside Cleverley would be brilliant in offensive midfield and someone like Gündoğan / Bender or João Moutinho to work with Carrick.
Gündoğan is the midfielder I'd most like to see come to my club as well. But concur with Sphaero's reasoning on why it's unlikely he moves this summer, from there he'll become an expensive signing for anyone interested after 2014
I think Verratti would be my muppets choice. Fergie has been looking for the next Paul Scholes and along with Pogba, he's as good a replacement I think I've seen over the years.
I don't think we need an Eriksen type now we have Kagawa (and Rooney basically is an attacking midfielder these days as well).
I'm not that well versed on some leagues so I don't know all the muppet names, but I would say that we basically need another Carrick type (an upgrade if possible). Someone who has really good positioning, can pass well, is composed on the ball and is an all-rounder. If Gundogan meets the bill then we should go for him (or Vidal if he becomes available). Wanyama or Strootman would be the cheap options (I have no idea how good Strootman is though).
I think he'd be a good signing, provided he isn't our only midfield signing.
The way I see it we need two midfielders:
1. Top quality midfielder to play alongside Carrick. Carrick is far and away our best midfielder at the moment and, as good as he is, Manchester United should ideally have an even better midfielder as our very best. So we need a top class midfielder, or at least someone with the potential to turn into one.
2. Squad player. With Scholes, Fletcher and Anderson so unreliable (and possibly on the way out), and Giggs so hit and miss when he plays in cm, we need another midfielder as a squad player. This midfielder would ideally be a) relatively cheap, b) someone whose fitness can be relied on, c) is able to provide cover for Carrick or play alongside him, d) has the potential to grow into the side in the way the likes of Fletcher and Carrick did.
For "Midfielder 1" I'd have Gundogan as my first choice, but other names have been mentioned that would fit the bill just as well. In a way this is the easiest type of midfielder to spot as their quality stands out, you just have to be willing to pay a lot of money for them.
"Midfielder 2" is where I think McCarthy might be a good signing. I think he fits the criteria we need and would be relatively easy to obtain. He is roughly as good as Cleverly, one of our 1st choice midfielders, so he's definitely good enough for this role. So why not go for him?
Why not indeed? He's plenty of time to improve too.
I think we need two as well, one as an alternative/understudy to Carrick and another as someone who could come straight in or as least compete with clev in the more attacking role though hopefully they'll be a box to box type. Jones has shown himself to be an interesting option in the middle and it could be if we buy another defender that he could become the alternative but its hard to tell where we'll want to settle him and also how often he'll be available if we don't add a defender given the frequency of injuries there.
I'd take Lars Bender with either Mccarthy or Eriksen
yea my muppet hat is on
yea my muppet hat is on
we won't buy a midfielder this summer. defo not a one who would be a ready to use player. maybe some teenager.
sorry to kill your muppet mode.
Me muppet never dies
