sigh....americans
Which midfielder should we buy to give Pogba more freedom
- Thread starter YouOnlyLiveTwice
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sigh....americans
Dele has played in a midfield 2 for Spurs ... and has done pretty well on those occasions. But he's more effective further forward, and we have Dembele, Dier, Winks or Wanyama for the midfield 2, so he's not needed in that area.
But if Alli can play effectively in midfield 2, how come Pogba can't?
No he can't. every time Poch has looked to field him in a 2 Erisken has essentially dropped in to play as the second CM and Dele has drifted forwards, he's a an AM at best, a complete liability in a 2 with his lack of positional sense and reckless tackling. it's just like Gerrard, another that couldn't play well in a 2, all of these of course are overlooked in the Pogba witchunt.
Demeble scored around 7 goals and 7 assists in his Spurs career, Pogba has scored 8 goals and have 13 assists in just 45 starts. So if Pogba can score and assist so many from midfield 2, how come Dembele can't?
Which is the standard retort from United fans about pretty much everything. But it has zero relevance as to why Pogba apparently needs every thing to be "just so" before he can show his "world class" ability.
I think he has. When you sign a player for a world record fee you expect one of the best players in the world. I don't think we've seen that from Pogba as yet. Good on occasions, terrible on occasions. Definitely underwhelming, in my opinion, anyway.
Because that's not his role. His role is to dominate the CM (which he does superbly) ... and to provide both defensive cover and to drive forward with the ball, creating panic in the opposition, drawing opposition midfielders and defenders out of position and thereby create space and time for the likes of Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son .... which is partly why these players score so many and provide many assists.
It's no a retort, it's a fact, you are incredibly arrogant and your team haven't achieved anything, something you never address either, kinda like Wenger and his 5 year plan that became a 10 year plan that.......well, you know how it goess. there's nothing complicated about Pogba, you wouldn't play Zidane or Rui Costa in a midfield 2 and expect them to produce what they produce when playing as the 3rd man in a midfield, it's pretty simple.
Oh finally one more step in understanding the game.
At least you understood there are different roles for players, likewise you should also know there are different strengths and weaknesses for players. Also Pogba was very good this season playing in midfield 2, so this why can't Pogba play in Midfield 2 is just laughable.
ManUtd fans midfield 3 to see the best of Pogba. In midfield 2 he has already shown enough this season except last 2 games.
Say what?
You've paid a world record fee for a midfielder in Pogba. Has he produced world class performances to match?
No. He often goes missing, rarely dominates matches ... and now the general discussion is reduced to what he needs - a different formation or that elusive player X - to apparently show his 'world class' ability.
The truth is that Pogba is a decent player, occasionally great, more often not. And the bigger truth is that all the potential ability in the world means little without a willingness (a) to work hard both on and off the pitch; and (b) to be team player.
That's a pile of nonsense. Repeat the same nonsense again and again.
Under Pep I don't feel Iniesta had this "free role" though. It looked more like he and Xavi were near each other at all times, almost a midfield 2 and seemed to know where each other were always. Then when possession was lost, their was a clear press game, dependent on which set of players were nearest to the ball. A lot of positional and tactical discipline is needed to play in that midfield role. Pep made sure the players knew where they should be in each phase of play so I don't know what exactly is free or 'roaming' about Iniesta's role back then. Their partnership was formidable because of they stuck together.
That's a good point. Fans are fickle, delusional, biased, unpredictable.
I don't really care about his fee or expectations. Together with de Gea he's been our best and most consistent player since he's signed. Last season de Gea and Pogba were the least of our problems. IMO they are the least of our problems this season, as well. Even that Pogba can't play in a midfield 2 or is half the player in that system is false IMO. Sure, we need to sign a midfielder, but less so to give Pogba more freedom than to improve the team overall. Our back 4 is constantly changing, because no player other than Valencia can make a spot his own there. It has been similar in midfield and attack. Lukaku has definitely helped and so will Alexis. Matic has been good, too. My point is, it's going to take time and Pogba can't do it on his own. Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, de Bruyne, Hazard last season and Dybala are surrounded by very good teams, we aren't quite there yet. Doesn't mean we can still win cups though.
If this is true then De Gea (and now Sanchez) is our only better than decent player, because Pogba has clearly been our 2nd highest performing player since signing here. Not even sure who would be 3rd as literally everyone else has struggled with form, except Bailly I guess, but he's been hurt a lot. Valencia and a few others always do fine, but their version of playing well is not as good as Pogba having a bang average Pogba game.
He isn't good enough positionally defensively to play in a midfield 2 at the moment, but neither were prime Lampard or lots of other very good creative midfielders.
If we want an attacking midfielder: Milinkovic-Savic.
If we want a box to box midfielder: Doucoure.
If we want a defensive midfielder: Fabinho.
If we want a box to box midfielder: Doucoure.
If we want a defensive midfielder: Fabinho.
we should really go for Freek de Jong from Ajax. He is very good and young. The Dutch press seems to think he's going top City
Rabiot would be a dream signing.
I watched Fabian Ruiz last night and I thought he looked majestic at times against Real Madrid. Could be a more attainable option for the summer although he seems linked with every half decent team in England and Spain.
Tom Davies?
Good shout. Wouldn't be the player on everyone's lips, but having watched him play quite a lot now, he'd do a good job in that box to box role. Wouldn't cost over the odds either.
Having said that, I feel we need more of a playmaker in that 8 role, rather than a box to box. We have Herrera, Fellaini and now McTominay who can come in and provide more solidarity if/when needed.
We lack someone who can dictate a game.
Verratti or Thiago would be my dream, but I very much doubt the both are attainable.
Verratti would be good, I see him playing often on right flank but much passer and dribble, his confidence on the ball and ability to retain possession in tight spaces when under pressure, his playmaking skills, he is also a hard-working, dynamic, and well-rounded midfielder, who is known for his aggression and defensive ability. However, he was often compared to Pirlo who played with Pogba in 3 midfield for Juventus.
With our style of play games under Jose, I think he is more suited to our style of play because we play counter-attacking, we need the type of player who can control the game from deep and his range of passing enable him to create chances for teammates with accurate long passes to start counter attacks.
If we have Verratti in our first team, we can beat a better team by playing paced counter attacking, that's why we lack someone like this in our midfield and Herrera are not enough to play for us cos Herrea don't have a good range passing, much better at short.
I prefer Verratti over Kross or Thiago. There's more chance for getting Veratti than getting Kross or Thiago. PSG want Kante, I can imagine it would be more expensive for getting Kante, they may need to offload players to comply with FFP if they get Kante cos they have Mbappe to buy outright for 160m. On other hands, they would be in trouble financially if they were knocked out by Real Madrid in the round of 16. I hope it would be Verrtti they may offload and he's more likely to be United bound, given the fact that we lack midfielders like him and are going to lose 2 midfielders, Bayern has Thiago, Real Madrid has Kross, City is happy with the midfield depth they have and are looking for DM. Barca shipped after getting Coutinho. Juventus, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool couldn't afford a 100m+ for someone like Verratti. Oh, not to mention that Raiola is his agent which is a bonus for us.
I really want Verratti
Verratti
Barca lost Neymar when they showered interest on him... Thiago is an injury prone, so unless we can keep him healthy, otherwise no thanks.How about Pjanic? Is he good to dedicate a game and hold the ball? I know he can pass, and he’s also a master in freekicking! Would be cool to have him with Pogba and Matic in 3 Man midfield!!
A player like Verrati, Kroos, Thiago would be ideal, someone who can dictate the game. Even thought I like players like Savic, Fekir, Eriksen... they are more focused in the attack.
Not really through any fault of his own either. We've played that combination three times in total this season and the last time was on New Year's Day against Everton.
Personally feel Matic was the wrong signing, a player like Kroos would be great but Matic Kroos Pogba IMO won't be good enough against strong pressing teams. Matic legs are obviously gone, he will need someone very mobile next to him.
Kante Kroos Pogba would have been much better, it seems like we have made some expensive mistakes with our midfield.
Kante Kroos Pogba would have been much better, it seems like we have made some expensive mistakes with our midfield.
Which is arguably our best performance since August.
Yes agreed. Whichever midfielder we buy to play between Matic and Pogba, they need to be mobile, press-resistant and defensively sound.
Ndombele at Lyon definitely has those first two, don't know exactly about the defensive side of his game though
What's the situation with Ceballos?
Reading he's having a really tough time at Madrid and was even linked with a january move to Liverpool. Is it all just paper-talk or is there a genuine problem there?
I haven't watched him at all to be honest but I understand that he's closer to an Iniesta type whereas most would probably like to see someone like Xavi partnering Pogba (Pjanic being one of the most mentioned). I was impressed with his defensive stats for Betis and Real though, completing more tackles and interceptions than any of our midfielders bar Herrera, who last season made .62 more interceptions compared to Ceballos. A more offensively talented Herrera definitely sounds like an interesting prospect to me. I wonder if he could be developed similarly to how Thiago has developed by Bayern, Mourinho's already tried Pereira in the number six role who I think is a similar type of player aswell.
Reading he's having a really tough time at Madrid and was even linked with a january move to Liverpool. Is it all just paper-talk or is there a genuine problem there?
I haven't watched him at all to be honest but I understand that he's closer to an Iniesta type whereas most would probably like to see someone like Xavi partnering Pogba (Pjanic being one of the most mentioned). I was impressed with his defensive stats for Betis and Real though, completing more tackles and interceptions than any of our midfielders bar Herrera, who last season made .62 more interceptions compared to Ceballos. A more offensively talented Herrera definitely sounds like an interesting prospect to me. I wonder if he could be developed similarly to how Thiago has developed by Bayern, Mourinho's already tried Pereira in the number six role who I think is a similar type of player aswell.
Vidal. And bring Pirlo out of retirement. If not then make a double bid for Khedira and Marchisio.
Jorginho or Pjanic?
Jean Michael Seri. We need someone in midfield who can control play.
Ali works hard off the ball and defends so it's really a 3 man midfield off the ball.
He's right though.
He isn't.
Watford's Abdoulaye Doucoure looks like the box to box CM needed next to Pogba in a midfield 3. At a good age with PL experience, good technical and physical ability, and produces in attack and defense.
Can Pereira not play that role?
Pereira could play that role but I feel we'll be selling ourselves short as far as quality goes. We need someone who is top class and Pereira, I don't feel will ever be that...
I don't think we'll see him in a United shirt again.
We are doing ok as a team but we are talking about competing with the 5% of top teams in the world so it's not about how we can get the best out of Pogba, it's the quality across the whole team. Pogba is of the quality to play in any of the top 5% but not sure truly how many others can and there's our problem.